USCE 2024: Macklemore Is The New Michael Moore

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2024: Macklemore Is The New Michael Moore

koolkal: Oct 21, 2008; this thread maybe doesnt have room for 2 green xbox one avs

PharmerBoy posted:

When things are phrased in the manner of "Let's laugh at this person failing to achieve the thing," and the context of the accompanying writing implies the thing being done is a good thing, it ultimately gives me the feeling that this isn't really about Palestine or Israel as much as it's about scoring points against Joe Biden.

Not that I'm implying bad faith, mind you! Just giving advice on how you might be more rhetorically effective when people like me read your comments.

I don't care about being rhetorically effective. The facts of the story stand on their own. If you are going to change your beliefs simply on the way I frame it, that says more about you than it does about me. I'm laughing at the people claiming that this story of a ceasefire was proof that Biden was actually trying to stop the genocide.

Examples:

Raenir Salazar posted:

Ceasefire Joe has a pretty good ring to it.

Kalit posted:

Once again, Biden showing that things can be accomplished behind the scenes. So much for Biden's "hardline Zionist" stance that I had to argue against earlier ITT

People have constantly argued with me that Biden actually cares deeply about the plight of the Palestinian people despite all the evidence I constantly see pointing out the opposite.

Google Jeb Bush posted:

In addition to what pharmer said, some of this is in light of the massacre of 140ish people at an aid distribution site.

Both parties involved completely denied the story prior to the massacre. It's possible they were simply both lying and this deal was actually about to happen in the next 3-4 days until this massacre happened.

But the alternative and simpler explanation to me is that it was never true. Whether Biden made it up to influence his primary numbers prior to Michigan or if he had a mush-brained moment while eating ice cream, I can't say.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 00:24

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# ? May 25, 2024 02:11

Kagrenak: Sep 8, 2010

koolkal posted:

But the alternative and simpler explanation to me is that it was never true. Whether Biden made it up to influence his primary numbers prior to Michigan or if he had a mush-brained moment while eating ice cream, I can't say.

While Biden was more optimistic even than Qatar, the statement from their FM 3 days ago was a big turnaround, saying how they were optimistic for a new truce:

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240227-%F0%9F%94%B4live-hopes-for-new-israel-hamas-ceasefire-by-next-week-says-biden

This was a sharp contrast to just a few days earlier on 17 Feb where they were saying there was little to be optimistic about :
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-18/qatar-says-negotiations-over-gaza-cease-fire-are-not-positive

Something was happening even if Biden was up selling it by a lot.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 00:36

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

I don't doubt there were discussions of a ceasefire, I just don't think Israel would ever agree to terms that weren't awful for everyone in Gaza.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 00:40

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

koolkal posted:

People have constantly argued with me that Biden actually cares deeply about the plight of the Palestinian people despite all the evidence I constantly see pointing out the opposite.

Where did I or Kalit state "Biden cares deeply about the plight of the Palistinian people"? I don't even think this would be a true statement regarding the plight of the Ukrainian people or heck even the American people who he's done a lot of help for. This seems like quite the misinterpretation of my and Kalit's point?

Additionally my post was me making a point about how if Biden were to successfully negotiate a ceasefire, he should get the (presumably well deserved in that eventuality) credit for it.

Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Mar 1, 2024

# ? Mar 1, 2024 01:14

Zamujasa: Oct 27, 2010; Bread Liar

socialsecurity posted:

I don't doubt there were discussions of a ceasefire, I just don't think Israel would ever agree to terms that weren't awful for everyone in Gaza.

yeah. given that this whole thing seems rather one-sided, i'm not sure why israel would agree to a ceasefire outside of some heavy coercion

# ? Mar 1, 2024 01:15

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Zamujasa posted:

yeah. given that this whole thing seems rather one-sided, i'm not sure why israel would agree to a ceasefire outside of some heavy coercion

Israel can't really afford to keep this up all that much longer either. A substantial portion of their working-age population has either been relocated or mobilized, which has been a major disruption of the peacetime economy. And while they could sustain that if it were needed to defend against a genuinely existential threat, it's something the population (and, more importantly, big business) isn't going to tolerate for a super long time now. Moreover, the ultra-Orthodox will become eligible for the draft in March, and that's an issue that'll tear the government coalition apart for sure if it happens in the middle of a war. I expect a significant chunk of Israel's government probably wouldn't be opposed to a face-saving excuse to stop the war in the very near future without looking like failures.

Probably just about the only thing keeping Israel's invasion going is the fact that Netanyahu himself desperately needs some kind of major win from it, because he's tremendously unpopular right now. The other parties have agreed to tolerate him for now so they don't get accused of engaging in unpatriotic politicking in times of war, but half the Knesset is going to be demanding new elections basically the moment a long-term ceasefire is signed. If he can't deliver something like special forces rescuing all the civilians or Hamas completely collapsing and issuing an unconditional surrender, he's cooked. And he's running out of time to do it, too. The longer this goes without an achievement like this, the more discontent Israeli politics is going to become, and the haredi draft exemption is a notoriously touchy issue that could very well shatter his coalition.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 01:28

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

haveblue posted:

Can I get SNAP benefits for my embryos?

lol you can barely get WIC for your children in Alabama.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 01:34

Angry_Ed: Mar 30, 2010; Grimey Drawer

FizFashizzle posted:

lol you can barely get WIC for your children in Alabama.

Seriously, Alabama cares more about a frozen embryo than they do an actual living, breathing human being.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 01:36

C. Everett Koop: Aug 18, 2008

PhazonLink posted:

I hope she has the thickest AL accent ever.

regional accents dying and everything homogenizing into newcaster style is lame

rolls up to the microphone after the SOTU, spends the whole time complaining that Saban retiring cost them their 'cruits and if anyone deserves an AQ to the new playoff it's the most glorious Crimson Tide, Pawwwwwwwwwwwwwwlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

# ? Mar 1, 2024 01:37

Professor Beetus: Apr 12, 2007; They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

Angry_Ed posted:

Seriously, ~~Alabama~~ conservatives care more about a frozen embryo than they do an actual living, breathing human being.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 01:39

Randalor: Sep 4, 2011

mdemone posted:

Tanks opened fire and then ran over the bodies.

Who was in danger? Who is being endangered?

"Oh those poor, innocent tanks! Those vicious bodies could jam up their treads!" - a disturbing number of people online, if reactions to most of the other IDF attacks have been any indication.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Mar 1, 2024 01:42

FLIPADELPHIA: Apr 27, 2007; Heavy Shit; Grimey Drawer

I know the point you're making, but conservatives don't care about the embryos either.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 02:50

TaintedBalance: Dec 21, 2006; hope, n: desire accompanied by expectation of or belief in fulfilment

shimmy shimmy posted:

Our posting president presents the puppermaster defense.

Slightly mad I couldn't find a p-word to continue the alliteration there.

"Our posting president presents the puppetmaster playbook"

# ? Mar 1, 2024 02:56

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Lead-tainted applesauce pouches sailed through gaps in US food safety system

quote:

Cinnamon-flavored applesauce pouches sold in grocery and dollar stores last year poisoned hundreds of American children with extremely high doses of lead, leaving anxious parents to watch for signs of brain damage, developmental delays and seizures.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration, citing Ecuadorian investigators, said a spice grinder was likely responsible for the contamination and said the quick recall of three million applesauce pouches protected the food supply.

But hundreds of pages of documents obtained by The Examination, in collaborations with The New York Times and El Universo, along with interviews with government and company officials in multiple countries, show that in the weeks and months before the recall, the tainted applesauce sailed through a series of checkpoints in a food safety system meant to protect American consumers.

The documents and interviews offer the clearest accounting to date of the most widespread toxic exposure in food marketed to young children in decades. Children in 44 states ate the tainted applesauce, some of which contained lead at extraordinarily high levels.

Time and again, the tainted cinnamon went untested and undiscovered, the result of an overstretched FDA and a food safety law that gives companies, at home and abroad, wide latitude on what toxins to look for and whether to test.

�It�s amazing in a bad sense what a catastrophic failure this was,� said Neal Fortin, director of the Institute for Food Laws and Regulations at Michigan State University. �Largely, the food supply regulatory system is based on an honor system.�

The cinnamon originated in Sri Lanka and was shipped to Ecuador, where it was ground into a powder. It was probably there, the FDA has said, that the cinnamon was likely contaminated with lead chromate, a powder that is sometimes illegally used to tint or bulk up spices.

[...]

Austrofood never tested the cinnamon or its tainted applesauce before shipping it to the United States. The company said it relied on a certificate from a supplier saying the cinnamon was virtually lead free, records show. In a statement, the supplier, Negasmart, did not discuss that certification but said it had complied with all regulations and quality standards.

The FDA can inspect overseas food companies that ship to the United States, but even as food imports soared to record levels in 2022, international inspections fell far short of targets set by law.

American inspectors had not visited Austrofood in five years, records show.

�Companies have the responsibility to take steps to assure that the products they manufacture are not contaminated with unsafe levels of heavy metals,� Jim Jones, the top FDA food official, said in a statement. �The agency�s job is to help the industry comply and hold those who evade these requirements accountable, as appropriate.�

The FDA says it has no authority to investigate far down the international supply chain. Records show that the Ecuadorian government had the authority but not the capacity. Ecuadorian regulators had never before tested cinnamon for toxins and, when the FDA called looking for help, nearly half of the government�s lab equipment was out of service, said Daniel S�nchez, the head of Ecuador�s food safety agency.

Private safety audits commissioned by American importers are supposed to provide another layer of protection. But audits typically look only for the hazards that the importers themselves have identified.

None of the importers would say whether they considered lead a risk or tested for it and it is unclear what, if any, steps they took. But none blocked the applesauce. Records show one auditor gave the applesauce maker an A+ safety rating in December, as American children were being poisoned.

The FDA has the power to test food arriving at the border. There is no indication that anyone tested the applesauce when it arrived at ports in Miami and Baltimore. Inspectors conduct about half as many such tests as they did a decade ago.

The FDA said it planned to analyze the incident and whether it needs to seek new powers from Congress to prevent future outbreaks.

Full article with way more detail at source, for free. The underlying cause is insufficient FDA funding and (to a degree), authority to establish limits, which has over time caused some degree of capture. Despite all this the US is still doing more on these issues than virtually any other government.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 03:44

B B: Dec 1, 2005

Discendo Vox posted:

Lead-tainted applesauce pouches sailed through gaps in US food safety system

Full article with way more detail at source, for free. The underlying cause is insufficient FDA funding and (to a degree), authority to establish limits, which has over time caused some degree of capture. Despite all this the US is still doing more on these issues than virtually any other government.

Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

In other food-related news, there's some more bad news about ultra-processed foods:

The Guardian posted:

Ultra-processed food linked to 32 harmful effects to health, review finds

World�s largest review finds direct associations with higher risks of cancer, heart disease and early death\

Ultra-processed food (UPF) is directly linked to 32 harmful effects to health, including a higher risk of heart disease, cancer, type 2 diabetes, adverse mental health and early death, according to the world�s largest review of its kind.

The findings from the first comprehensive umbrella review of evidence come amid rapidly rising global consumption of UPF such as cereals, protein bars, fizzy drinks, ready meals and fast food.

In the UK and US, more than half the average diet now consists of ultra-processed food. For some, especially people who are younger, poorer or from disadvantaged areas, a diet comprising as much as 80% UPF is typical.

The findings published in the BMJ suggest diets high in UPF may be harmful to many elements of health. The results of the review involving almost 10 million people underscored a need for measures to target and reduce exposure to UPF, the researchers said.

The review involved experts from a number of leading institutions, including Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in the US, the University of Sydney and Sorbonne University in France.

Writing in the BMJ, they concluded: �Overall, direct associations were found between exposure to ultra-processed foods and 32 health parameters spanning mortality, cancer, and mental, respiratory, cardiovascular, gastrointestinal, and metabolic health outcomes.�

They added: �Greater exposure to ultra-processed food was associated with a higher risk of adverse health outcomes, especially cardiometabolic, common mental disorders and mortality outcomes.

�These findings provide a rationale to develop and evaluate the effectiveness of using population-based and public-health measures to target and reduce dietary exposure to ultra-processed foods for improved human health.�

Ultra-processed foods, including packaged baked goods and snacks, fizzy drinks, sugary cereals, and ready-to-eat or ready meals, undergo multiple industrial processes and often contain colours, emulsifiers, flavours and other additives. These products also tend to be high in added sugar, fat, and/or salt, but are low in vitamins and fibre.

Previous studies have linked UPF to poor health, but no comprehensive review had yet provided a broad assessment of the evidence in this area.

To bridge this gap, researchers carried out an umbrella review � a high-level evidence summary � of 45 distinct pooled meta-analyses from 14 review articles associating UPF with adverse health outcomes.

The review articles were all published in the past three years and involved 9.9 million people. None were funded by companies involved in the production of UPF.

Estimates of exposure to ultra-processed foods were obtained from a combination of food frequency questionnaires, 24-hour dietary recalls, and dietary history and were measured as higher versus lower consumption, additional servings per day, or a 10% increment.

The researchers graded the evidence as convincing, highly suggestive, suggestive, weak, or no evidence. They also assessed the quality of evidence as high, moderate, low, or very low.

Overall, the results show that higher exposure to UPF was consistently associated with an increased risk of 32 adverse health outcomes, The BMJ reported.

Convincing evidence showed that higher UPF intake was associated with about a 50% increased risk of cardiovascular disease-related death, a 48 to 53% higher risk of anxiety and common mental disorders, and a 12% greater risk of type 2 diabetes.

Highly suggestive evidence also indicated that higher PF intake was associated with a 21% greater risk of death from any cause, a 40 to 66% increased risk of heart disease related death, obesity, type 2 diabetes and sleep problems, and a 22% increased risk of depression.

There was also evidence for associations between UPF and asthma, gastrointestinal health, some cancers and cardiometabolic risk factors, such as high blood fats and low levels of �good� cholesterol, although the researchers cautioned the evidence for these links remains limited.

The researchers acknowledged several limitations to the umbrella review, including that they couldn�t rule out the possibility that other unmeasured factors and variations in assessing UPF intake may have influenced their results.

Some experts not involved in the research also highlighted that much of the research included in the umbrella review was weak and also cautioned that the findings do not prove cause and effect.

However, Dr Chris van Tulleken, an associate professor at University College London and one of the world�s leading UPF experts, said the findings were �entirely consistent� with a now �enormous number of independent studies which clearly link a diet high in UPF to multiple damaging health outcomes including early death�.

�We have good understanding of the mechanisms by which these foods drive harm,� he added. �In part it is because of their poor nutritional profile � they are often high in saturated fat, salt and free sugar.

But the way they are processed is also important � they�re engineered and marketed in ways which drive excess consumption � for example they are typically soft and energy dense and aggressively marketed usually to disadvantaged communities.�

In a linked editorial, academics from Brazil said UPFs were �often chemically manipulated cheap ingredients� and �made palatable and attractive by using combinations of flavours, colours, emulsifiers, thickeners and other additives�.

They added: �It is now time for UN agencies, with member states, to develop and implement a framework convention on ultra-processed foods analogous to the framework on tobacco.�

Meanwhile, a separate study published in the Lancet Public Health suggested that more than 9,000 heart disease-related deaths could be prevented in England over the next two decades if all restaurants, fast food outlets, cafes, pubs and takeaways put calories on their menus.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/28/ultra-processed-food-32-harmful-effects-health-review

Hopefully we can see some more action in the future on the obvious dangers of ultra-processed foods.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Mar 1, 2024 03:59

Nervous: Jan 25, 2005; Why, hello, my little slice of pecan pie.

haveblue posted:

Can I get SNAP benefits for my embryos?

Do the freezer services qualify as childcare expenses?

# ? Mar 1, 2024 06:49

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Nervous posted:

Do the freezer services qualify as childcare expenses?

Ohh if I keep some friends embryos in my freezer does my house then qualify as a daycare?

# ? Mar 1, 2024 06:53

theCalamity: Oct 23, 2010; Cry Havoc and let slip the Hogs of War

https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/status/1763335044788076907

I don't see any benefit in inviting Trump to help pass this immigration bill. If he does and it passes, it could potentially boost Trump's image and he could point and say that Biden can only get things passed with his help even when he's not in office. If it's to point out how ineffectual the GOP or Trump are on immigration, I don't think that will work since a lot of the anti-immigrant stuff is fueled by racism. Optics wise, it makes it harder to say "vote for me because I'm better than Trump" when you're asking Trump, a former president who has been impeached twice, to help get a bill passed.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 06:58

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

theCalamity posted:

https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/status/1763335044788076907

I don't see any benefit in inviting Trump to help pass this immigration bill. If he does and it passes, it could potentially boost Trump's image and he could point and say that Biden can only get things passed with his help even when he's not in office. If it's to point out how ineffectual the GOP or Trump are on immigration, I don't think that will work since a lot of the anti-immigrant stuff is fueled by racism. Optics wise, it makes it harder to say "vote for me because I'm better than Trump" when you're asking Trump, a former president who has been impeached twice, to help get a bill passed.

It's a reasonable move; Biden is tying Trump to the Republicans' sabotage of the bill (an act they have no defense for that actively hurts them to talk about), effectively making it a further wedge for the party and demonstrating to his own supporters that he can't do things. If Trump does actually support this, it's still supporting a Biden solution and driving the same wedge. It's possible because Biden's stated goal with the bill, particularly the capacity-increasing components, is broadly popular. It also disrupts the current murder narrative they're running.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 07:03

Staluigi: Jun 22, 2021

the thing i guess i really dont understand about trump's finances is that he's admitting he doesn't have the cash on hand to pay the ruling against him and would have to dissolve property

but it is also my understanding at the present bonkers rear end time that trump had been in circling cycles of debt catchup for many many years where he would leverage the poo poo out of his properties to take on debt to get money to buy new assets that also started losing money then he would leverage those properties for more cash which i guess now he definitely doesn't have

so if he doesn't have the money, and all the properties are leveraged to the tits ... what is exactly happening, like what can he do, what goes down

# ? Mar 1, 2024 07:07

Rappaport: Oct 2, 2013

Staluigi posted:

so if he doesn't have the money, and all the properties are leveraged to the tits ... what is exactly happening, like what can he do, what goes down

Hold on, I'm being told this isn't an option anymore. I guess he's just in debt for the rest of his life? How does US inheritance work, do his kids inherit his billions of dollars in debt or does it go poof when he dies?

# ? Mar 1, 2024 07:31

VorpalBunny: May 1, 2009; Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog

So this new lawsuit cuts off Trump's big lifeline for new cash, right? How (much more) screwed is he now?
https://www.reuters.com/legal/architect-trumps-social-media-deal-sues-block-transaction-2024-02-29/

# ? Mar 1, 2024 07:40

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Rappaport posted:

Hold on, I'm being told this isn't an option anymore. I guess he's just in debt for the rest of his life? How does US inheritance work, do his kids inherit his billions of dollars in debt or does it go poof when he dies?

it'll eat everything in his estate (and any attempts to evade same) until his creditors are made whole. a regular person with 400k in debt doesn't drive their kids into penury

# ? Mar 1, 2024 07:43

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

Discendo Vox posted:

Lead-tainted applesauce pouches sailed through gaps in US food safety system

Full article with way more detail at source, for free. The underlying cause is insufficient FDA funding and (to a degree), authority to establish limits, which has over time caused some degree of capture. Despite all this the US is still doing more on these issues than virtually any other government.

These fruit pur�es are an extremely common import commodity from South America. All the certificates I�ve ever seen are country of origin. I don�t think I�ve ever seen an FDA or USDA document for inspection at port of entry.

The other thing I�ve seen is that import meat inspection by USDA are often visual only.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 07:51

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

theCalamity posted:

https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/status/1763335044788076907

I don't see any benefit in inviting Trump to help pass this immigration bill. If he does and it passes, it could potentially boost Trump's image and he could point and say that Biden can only get things passed with his help even when he's not in office. If it's to point out how ineffectual the GOP or Trump are on immigration, I don't think that will work since a lot of the anti-immigrant stuff is fueled by racism. Optics wise, it makes it harder to say "vote for me because I'm better than Trump" when you're asking Trump, a former president who has been impeached twice, to help get a bill passed.

The one who comes out of this looking bad is Mitch McConnell, because he supported the bill, helped negotiate it, and promised that the Senate GOP would back it. But after Trump came out against the deal and loudly pressed for the Senate to reject it, pretty much all the GOP senators came out against it, even if they'd supported it before.

What this means is that this isn't just posturing from Biden. If Trump blessed the bill, it probably would pass. The entire reason the bill failed in the first place is that the GOP takes orders from Trump even though he currently holds no office. Instead of negotiating further with McConnell, Biden is negotiating with Trump, because Trump is the one who controls the Senate GOP now. No wonder Mitch is stepping down.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 08:14

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Bar Ran Dun posted:

These fruit pur�es are an extremely common import commodity from South America. All the certificates I�ve ever seen are country of origin. I don�t think I�ve ever seen an FDA or USDA document for inspection at port of entry.

The other thing I�ve seen is that import meat inspection by USDA are often visual only.

This was an extremely unusual case of what was almost certainly direct economic adulteration- spiking the product with lead to make the cinnamon look more red.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 08:24

Mia Wasikowska: Oct 7, 2006

Trump can now correctly and honestly say that Biden and the Democrats are where he was on Immigration in 2016, so he really has nothing to lose so long as the conversation is about immigration. That's what he wants. Tbf that's also what a lot of the American people want! It's hosed up.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 08:24

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Mia Wasikowska posted:

Trump can now correctly and honestly say that Biden and the Democrats are where he was on Immigration in 2016, so he really has nothing to lose so long as the conversation is about immigration. That's what he wants. Tbf that's also what a lot of the American people want! It's hosed up.

This is not the case. Trump was never an advocate for a whole heap of the elements that the Biden administration has and is advocating before, particularly capacity expansion, and while he's made use of the same provisions to deny entry, his actions in using those provisions was repeatedly turned back for being so obviously racist.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 08:33

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Mia Wasikowska posted:

Trump can now correctly and honestly say that Biden and the Democrats are where he was on Immigration in 2016, so he really has nothing to lose so long as the conversation is about immigration. That's what he wants. Tbf that's also what a lot of the American people want! It's hosed up.

guess you haven't read a single word I've posted about Biden admin immigration policy in the last three years. The alternatives to detention push alone is pretty huge and really very much the opposite of anything Trump ever instituted.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 08:36

Arc Light: Sep 26, 2013

PoopShipDestroyer posted:

I'm worried my incredible wit went unnoticed https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/melania-trump-seen-wearing-i-dont-care-jacket

No, that was a good post and I'm big sad that you beat me to it.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 08:41

Staluigi: Jun 22, 2021

Google Jeb Bush posted:

it'll eat everything in his estate (and any attempts to evade same) until his creditors are made whole. a regular person with 400k in debt doesn't drive their kids into penury

can the legal system take property that was collateral to previous loans trump has and if so what does that DO to those loans, do they immediately become due and it becomes an asset dissolving piranha orgy between the state creditors and the private creditors

what's the tipping off point for this house of cards poo poo

# ? Mar 1, 2024 10:48

Sir Lemming: Jan 27, 2009; It's a piece of JUNK!

theCalamity posted:

https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/status/1763335044788076907

I don't see any benefit in inviting Trump to help pass this immigration bill. If he does and it passes, it could potentially boost Trump's image and he could point and say that Biden can only get things passed with his help even when he's not in office. If it's to point out how ineffectual the GOP or Trump are on immigration, I don't think that will work since a lot of the anti-immigrant stuff is fueled by racism. Optics wise, it makes it harder to say "vote for me because I'm better than Trump" when you're asking Trump, a former president who has been impeached twice, to help get a bill passed.

"Readers added context" once again proves to be the single best feature Twitter has added in at least a decade.

quote:

Misleading headline. Biden didn�t ask Trump to work on crafting any legislation together. Biden made remarks at the border and during them, urged Trump to tell Republicans to support the bipartisan border security bill they tanked last month.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 15:21

Kagrenak: Sep 8, 2010

koolkal posted:

But the alternative and simpler explanation to me is that it was never true. Whether Biden made it up to influence his primary numbers prior to Michigan or if he had a mush-brained moment while eating ice cream, I can't say.

Another day another middle Eastern nation's FM Biden must have tricked:

quote:

ANTALYA, Turkey, March 1 (Reuters) - Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry said on Friday that Egypt is hopeful that talks initiated by Qatar can agree a cessation of hostilities in Gaza before the start of the upcoming fasting month of Ramadan.
"We are hopeful that we can reach a cessation of hostilities and exchange of hostages. Everyone recognizes that we have a time limit to be successful before the start of Ramadan," Shoukry said at the Antalya Diplomacy Forum in Turkey.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/shoukry-says-egypt-hopeful-gaza-ceasefire-deal-before-ramadan-2024-03-01/

Biden was definitely exaggerating, as is his way obnoxiously in this case, but Egypt and Qatar both seem to have a very different sentiment than even two weeks ago.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 15:21

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Normally, I think the "look how hard this news article is trying to 'both sides' something" talk is pretty boring, but this one is kind of amazing.

Hunter Biden finally made his private deposition to the House yesterday. He testified for 6 hours under oath about the documents that the Republicans on the oversight committee have been releasing snippets of for the past 6 months.

They released the full Hunter Biden deposition transcript and documentation that the House Oversight Committee has only been selectively releasing.

In a surprise twist, it turns out that their own evidence has never actually show what they were claiming, and in fact has shown the opposite of what they were claiming many times!

NBC News has decided to frame "Republicans have had access to this report for over 6 months and have only selectively released parts of it to back up their claims. However, it turns out that what they said was the opposite of what the transcript said" as this:

https://twitter.com/S_Fitzpatrick/status/1763544337323790415

That's called lying. When someone says, "This report says X" and the report actually says "Y," then there isn't "a disconnect between the document and statements." It means they were lying.

But, they also released the full hunter Biden transcript and I put the link in the article if you want to browse it. It's over 200 pages and nothing too wild or unknown from what I have seen after browning 20 pages or so.

quote:

Read the Hunter Biden deposition transcript from the GOP impeachment inquiry

WASHINGTON � The Republican-led House Oversight Committee on Thursday released the full transcript of Hunter Biden's closed-door testimony from the previous day.

The document, at 229 pages with some redactions, underscores the disconnect between what House Republicans have repeatedly alleged are criminal actions by Hunter Biden and his father and the documentation and testimony they have made public as part of their impeachment inquiry.

�We wanted a quick and full release� of the transcript, a representative from Hunter Biden�s legal team told NBC News on Thursday. �This transcript shows why this [investigation] needs to end. They have nothing.�

The deposition was conducted by the Oversight Committee and the House Judiciary Committee, two panels that have been leading the impeachment inquiry, which began last year. During that time, Republicans have not presented any evidence of wrongdoing by the president.

Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer, R-Ky., said in a statement Thursday night that Hunter Biden's testimony �confirms much of our evidence uncovered to date in our impeachment inquiry of President Biden. However, parts of Hunter Biden�s testimony are inconsistent with other witnesses� testimonies. It�s clear we need a public hearing to get the truth for the American people.�

Read the transcript here:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24451159-hunter-biden-transcript_redacted

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Mar 1, 2024

# ? Mar 1, 2024 15:24

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

theCalamity posted:

https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/status/1763335044788076907

I don't see any benefit in inviting Trump to help pass this immigration bill. If he does and it passes, it could potentially boost Trump's image and he could point and say that Biden can only get things passed with his help even when he's not in office. If it's to point out how ineffectual the GOP or Trump are on immigration, I don't think that will work since a lot of the anti-immigrant stuff is fueled by racism. Optics wise, it makes it harder to say "vote for me because I'm better than Trump" when you're asking Trump, a former president who has been impeached twice, to help get a bill passed.

Looks like it is actually the opposite, according to polling at least, and they don't actually expect Republicans to reverse themselves. Pointing out Republicans directly refused to support a border bill when they claim the border is the most important issue seems to be the one thing that drags down voter perception of Republicans' immigration policy. That is why they are hammering it so hard:

https://twitter.com/brianschatz/status/1763420365844275632

# ? Mar 1, 2024 15:53

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

I think it's highly likely that Trump had some kind of impairing cerebrovascular event while in office.

https://twitter.com/BidenHQ/status/1763394269069427070

https://twitter.com/mattgreenfield/status/1763585543349112999

Cut off in the thumbnail:

Yeah it's a real mystery

# ? Mar 1, 2024 16:31

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Looks like it is actually the opposite, according to polling at least, and they don't actually expect Republicans to reverse themselves. Pointing out Republicans directly refused to support a border bill when they claim the border is the most important issue seems to be the one thing that drags down voter perception of Republicans' immigration policy. That is why they are hammering it so hard:

https://twitter.com/brianschatz/status/1763420365844275632

this. this is for alot of the moderates who are for some sort of border control/etc and are open to conservative bullshit. folks like my dad, and yeah just like the poll said, they get pissed when the GOP talks big game and etc but imdietly ducks out of doing something because trump said so. I dont care for the bill though it could be way worse, but tying its death to trump and the GOP and biden telling trump "hey, why dont you help me pass this since you talk so much big poo poo" will probably help biden here

# ? Mar 1, 2024 16:32

DeadlyMuffin: Jul 3, 2007

Mia Wasikowska posted:

Trump can now correctly and honestly say that Biden and the Democrats are where he was on Immigration in 2016, so he really has nothing to lose so long as the conversation is about immigration. That's what he wants. Tbf that's also what a lot of the American people want! It's hosed up.

Biden and the Democrats are calling for a ban on Muslims entering the United States and a big wall across the entire border that Mexico will pay for?

# ? Mar 1, 2024 16:39

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Mia Wasikowska posted:

Trump can now correctly and honestly say that Biden and the Democrats are where he was on Immigration in 2016, so he really has nothing to lose so long as the conversation is about immigration. That's what he wants. Tbf that's also what a lot of the American people want! It's hosed up.

The bad thing about the bipartisan border bill is that it makes it easier to turn people away who don't have rock-solid asylum claims. It raises the chance that someone with a genuine asylum claim could have to fight harder to prove their claim or possibly get denied when they otherwise wouldn't have if they have a 50/50 claim that could go either way.

It doesn't increase detention, separate families, criminally charge people for trying to claim asylum, or any of the other things that were the major criticisms of 2017 Trump-era immigration policy. It is basically the opposite of that (in a bad way) in that they won't be detaining anyone and will just be turning them around and sending them back if they don't have a very strong asylum claim.

In exchange, the Dems got increased legal immigration caps, new guest worker passes, more money for processing and 50% more immigration judges to speed up rulings and work through the 4-year backlog, and a provision that gives asylum claimers lawyers.

I don't personally think those things are worth it in exchange for a fairly significant reshaping of asylum policy, but it is not the same as 2016. It is bad (imho) in a different way.

The "bargain" for immigration reform since 1987 has always included border security paired with a pathway to citizenship, reforming the legal immigration system, and increased legal immigration caps. Dems dropped their demands for a pathway to citizenship and reforming the legal immigration system from this bill to focus on border security + increased legal immigration caps and that is the major problem. The asylum changes wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that basically all legal immigration is going through the asylum process right now in a way that was never intended because we effectively capped the legal immigration limit in 1987, never raised the cap, and demand to come to the U.S. for economic reasons has continued to soar since the 80's, but people know they can't get in if they do it the "right" way now, so claiming asylum is the only way to get a legal blessing to stay. You can also just sneak in, but you won't be legal to stay at that point, which is why asylum claims have exploded in number as the difficulty of doing it the normal legal way has increased.

Instead of fixing the legal immigration system, the bill comes down hard on the asylum system to filter out the people who are there for economic reasons and would never qualify for asylum and quickly deny/eject them, but it raises the chances that the broad hammer policy will hit people with legitimate asylum claims who may be 50/50 and on the edge of approval.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Mar 1, 2024

# ? Mar 1, 2024 16:52

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# ? May 25, 2024 02:11

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1763607096103428393

Oh right, that well known Christian doctrine of "interdimensional beings". I think they hammered that out at Worms.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 18:09

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