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Duck and Cover
Apr 6, 2007


Motronic posted:

This is not a thread for theoretical stories. Because the details actually matter when you're talking about housing.

If you want to daydream go watch some HGTV show that I'm sure will satiate the dream of this being an easy feel-good story. Because in reality is messy and hyper local and specific.

The whole reason you were asked where is the combination of the location mattering and the red-flaggy way you didn't seem to understand that is does, or even specify what type(s) of land you're looking for.

Duck and Cover posted:

Please tell me about buying land/building a house on said land. I have no questions in particular I just want to read experiences.

No matter how much you condescend it doesn't change the fact that what I requested is not what you've provided.

"Hi I'd like some stories about keeping bees"
"Where? What kind of bees?"
"It doesn't matter I just want to hear about experiences keeping bees"
"Of course it matters how could it not matter this is bee keeping the details matter"
"For fucks sake I just want stories on bees"
"Oh you just want feel good stories"
"I never said that"

I'm sure I was more hostile but you get the point. While I'm sure your a wealth of helpful advice, that is not what was asked of you so don't get mad when someone isn't grateful for it.

I want the good, bad, and neutral I can decide what's useful to me and my situation. I figure whatever the person wants to post is fine and will probably end up focusing on what they thought to be noteworthy. http://www.vtwoods.life Is great, exactly what I want more then what I expect in this thread. It being about a build in Vermont doesn't really matter.

Now this possibly warranted it's own thread but I didn't feel like making it at the time and thought it fit good enough here so thus the post here. Maybe I'll do that.

CongoJack posted:

My sister is building a house in Idaho, I will let you know how it goes. Just give me like a few years and it should be done.

An optimist I see!

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

Duck and Cover posted:

No matter how much you condescend it doesn't change the fact that what I requested is not what you've provided.

No matter how much you want to think this thread is here to cater to exactly what you want it doesn't change the fact that it isn't.

CongoJack
Nov 5, 2009

Ask Why, Asshole


Duck and Cover posted:

An optimist I see!

The real optimist is her husband who thinks it will be done by next summer. They have the land but it still needs to cleared of vegetation and they don't have any plans or a builder yet.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari


Duck and Cover posted:

I just wanted people building house stories. That's all. The a reason I didn't want to give details because I suspected it would distract from what I wanted (I'm so smart). I'm sorry (not really) I value different things when picking a place to live. That doesn't make what your value wrong, it just means it's not an "objectively bad idea" as you seem to think.

My sister moved to Florida with her longtime BF that works for Redhat. They bought a piece of land in March and the builder still hasn't started.

The end.

Upgrade
Jun 19, 2012



One of my coworker was planning to build a home on a plot but realized it was cheaper to literally buy a house for 300k and tear it down and build fresh on the foundation.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Once upon a time some relatives got it into their head to build their dream home on a patch of rural land. Life happened and they had to leave and ended up selling the house for ~70% of the construction cost, in no small part because they built a really nice house in the middle of nowhere.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Cyrano4747 posted:

Once upon a time some relatives got it into their head to build their dream home on a patch of rural land. Life happened and they had to leave and ended up selling the house for ~70% of the construction cost, in no small part because they built a really nice house in the middle of nowhere.

My dream is to buy a house like that from someone like your relatives

But also less than an hour from an international airport

A MIRACLE
Sep 17, 2007

All right. It's Saturday night; I have no date, a two-liter bottle of Shasta and my all-Rush mix-tape... Let's rock.



I like watching the YouTubes of hippies who live in self built mud houses and run permaculture farms

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi


This conversation just made me think of our friends who:

Just closed on a house on 60 acres of land in western Colorado!

No, it's not close to a city.

The house is kind of far away from the access road.

The access road isn't plowed in the winter.

It's completely off the grid.

At least they threw in the snowmobiles!

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Hadlock posted:

My dream is to buy a house like that from someone like your relatives

But also less than an hour from an international airport

Well, technically it was about an hour and change from an "international" airport, as in you could catch a puddle hopper to either a medium-sized city in Canada or a smaller city in the US, and from either of those airports you could catch a flight to someplace where you could eventually get a connection to where you wanted to go.

Seriously, though, seeing the "TownName International Airport" sign was always a hoot. The entire airport passenger apparatus of check in / gate / luggage claim was in a building about the size of a ~1500sqft home.

Involuntary Sparkle
Aug 11, 2004

Chemo-kitties can have “accidents” too!



Cyrano4747 posted:

Well, technically it was about an hour and change from an "international" airport, as in you could catch a puddle hopper to either a medium-sized city in Canada or a smaller city in the US, and from either of those airports you could catch a flight to someplace where you could eventually get a connection to where you wanted to go.

Seriously, though, seeing the "TownName International Airport" sign was always a hoot. The entire airport passenger apparatus of check in / gate / luggage claim was in a building about the size of a ~1500sqft home.

I just flew into Burlington International Airport (VT) and it tickled me to hear people near me saying "... this is an international airport?"

I fly here a lot so I'm used to it but it made me giggle.

Upgrade
Jun 19, 2012



Cyrano4747 posted:

Well, technically it was about an hour and change from an "international" airport, as in you could catch a puddle hopper to either a medium-sized city in Canada or a smaller city in the US, and from either of those airports you could catch a flight to someplace where you could eventually get a connection to where you wanted to go.

Seriously, though, seeing the "TownName International Airport" sign was always a hoot. The entire airport passenger apparatus of check in / gate / luggage claim was in a building about the size of a ~1500sqft home.

Any airport that connects to an airport with international flights is considered an "international" airport

Sirotan
Oct 17, 2006

Sirotan is a seal.




Residency Evil posted:

This conversation just made me think of our friends who:

Just closed on a house on 60 acres of land in western Colorado!

No, it's not close to a city.

The house is kind of far away from the access road.

The access road isn't plowed in the winter.

It's completely off the grid.

At least they threw in the snowmobiles!

Must be big fans of The Shining

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

Involuntary Sparkle posted:

I just flew into Burlington International Airport (VT) and it tickled me to hear people near me saying "... this is an international airport?"

I fly here a lot so I'm used to it but it made me giggle.

Yeah, most people don't understand the qualification to being an international airport is.....cargo. Not necessarily passengers.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007




Duck and Cover posted:

I want the good, bad, and neutral I can decide what's useful to me and my situation.

“I want to hear stories then ignore all of the ones that don’t fit my preconceived notions.”

I’d say you got a pretty drat clear answer that unless someone here as built a house in the exact town you live in, your experience is likely to be wildly different.

Beef Of Ages
Jan 11, 2003

Get off my lawn.

Sirotan posted:

Must be big fans of The Shining

My wife insists that the hills do in fact have eyes.

We live in a urban core of a medium sized city as a result. 🤷

Johnny Truant
Jul 22, 2008





Duck and Cover posted:

No matter how much you condescend it doesn't change the fact that what I requested is not what you've provided.

lol

So ignorant of what you're "requesting" you can't even see that you're ignorant of it :allears:

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Involuntary Sparkle posted:

I just flew into Burlington International Airport (VT) and it tickled me to hear people near me saying "... this is an international airport?"

I fly here a lot so I'm used to it but it made me giggle.

I only flew through there once, for a wedding, I'm pretty sure their baggage claim had one of those foil party signs that said "please leave by 9" on the back wall. The last flight allowed in by local ordinance was 7pm for noise reasons. The last flight out of Newark for Vermont took off at like 5:45 pm

Pullman airport, which serves both border towns of Pullman, Wa (Washington State University) and Moscow, Idaho (University of Idaho) some seven miles apart, with of San Francisco, is the size of a McDonalds, and is CLOSED except 30 min immediately before and after flights, which happen twice a day. Ground crew will take your luggage to your car/taxi as it's cheaper than a luggage carousel

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


If you really want to live in a rural area within an hour of a decent sized airport, MCI (Kansas City) fits the bill. Plenty of ruralness within an hours drive of that airport.

Downsides include living in Kansas or Missouri.

The only international flights are to Mexico, but direct flights to the major international hubs shouldn’t be a problem.

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020



*sitting in a rocking chair on a saloon porch*

Any day now the housing market will crash and I’ll be able to afford a home.

Any day now.

*more rocking*

twerking on the railroad
Jun 23, 2007

Get on my level


Ornery and Hornery posted:

*sitting in a rocking chair on a saloon porch*

Any day now the housing market will crash and I’ll be able to afford a home.

Any day now.

*more rocking*

Rented saloon porch?

Involuntary Sparkle
Aug 11, 2004

Chemo-kitties can have “accidents” too!



Hadlock posted:

I only flew through there once, for a wedding, I'm pretty sure their baggage claim had one of those foil party signs that said "please leave by 9" on the back wall. The last flight allowed in by local ordinance was 7pm for noise reasons. The last flight out of Newark for Vermont took off at like 5:45 pm

That must have been abolished, they have flights arriving as late as 11pm now. But I've definitely learned that you need to fly out VERY early or the delays multiply like nowhere else. And the only food available is a local small chain restaurant, which I love.

quote:

Pullman airport, which serves both border towns of Pullman, Wa (Washington State University) and Moscow, Idaho (University of Idaho) some seven miles apart, with of San Francisco, is the size of a McDonalds, and is CLOSED except 30 min immediately before and after flights, which happen twice a day. Ground crew will take your luggage to your car/taxi as it's cheaper than a luggage carousel

I live in Seattle, I'll have to fly there sometime, that sounds fascinating. I haven't made it further east in the state than Yakima.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



Involuntary Sparkle posted:

That must have been abolished, they have flights arriving as late as 11pm now. But I've definitely learned that you need to fly out VERY early or the delays multiply like nowhere else. And the only food available is a local small chain restaurant, which I love.

I live in Seattle, I'll have to fly there sometime, that sounds fascinating. I haven't made it further east in the state than Yakima.

It is pretty normal for small airports. The Airport for Houghton Mi (where Michigan Tech is located) does the same thing. You get there and check in, 10 min before the plane lands they open security, everyone goes though, Once people are off the plane you walk out on the run way and hop on. You can hang out in the airport if you want but there is nothing there but a rental car counter.

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.


spwrozek posted:

It is pretty normal for small airports. The Airport for Houghton Mi (where Michigan Tech is located) does the same thing. You get there and check in, 10 min before the plane lands they open security, everyone goes though, Once people are off the plane you walk out on the run way and hop on. You can hang out in the airport if you want but there is nothing there but a rental car counter.

Hey now, they also have a vending machine. I swear when I went through there there was a hot dog cart kind of thing too, but it was closed at the time.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



DaveSauce posted:

Hey now, they also have a vending machine. I swear when I went through there there was a hot dog cart kind of thing too, but it was closed at the time.

haha. You are correct. I haven't flown out of there since I was in school so back in '07.

marjorie
May 4, 2014



Duck and Cover posted:

<Snip>
I want the good, bad, and neutral I can decide what's useful to me and my situation. I figure whatever the person wants to post is fine and will probably end up focusing on what they thought to be noteworthy. http://www.vtwoods.life Is great, exactly what I want more then what I expect in this thread. It being about a build in Vermont doesn't really matter.
<Snip>

Right, so while I know this was primarily directed to Motronic, you still haven't addressed the issue I pointed out in my reply, and the fact that you're pointing to a blog as being representative of what you want kinda highlights my point. A from-scratch, custom (or at least more custom than like picking one of four floorplans and whatever superficial finishes for a house in a development), new home build will likely take multiple years to complete. A blog can do a good job of walking through day-to-day minutiae, but I'm not sure anyone who has completed the process will have any "stories" other than special nightmare moments, so unless that's what you're looking for, I'm not sure this is a good place for getting what you're requesting. Like you can see in blogs, there's like a thousand tiny details, so picking out a representative story (other than traumatizing ones!) from a completed process is tough without some kind of prompt.

Like I mentioned before, I lived through two home builds growing up, and while I understand being a kid during the build versus being the adult controlling the build is a very different perspective, I find it easier to answer questions rather than provide stories. And I'm happy to do so. The questions don't even have to be hyper specific! "What was it like drafting plans" "What were your interactions with the contractors\subcontractors" "What were some instances where things changed during the build" are all helpful ways to guide discussion. Even with my kid perspective mentioned above (to be fair, I was 15 at the start of the second one and pretty involved), I could answer probably a thousand questions about the experience, so I have no idea where to start if you just say "just share whatever you want."

You mentioned starting a new thread, and that might actually be more helpful since this thread tends to be more helpful for more specific discussion of things that come up during the house buying process. Although, it sounds like you really just need more links to blogs since they're a better format for covering every part of a new build process, so maybe request that instead (this sounds snarky but I'm being sincere).

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science



marjorie posted:

A from-scratch, custom (or at least more custom than like picking one of four floorplans and whatever superficial finishes for a house in a development), new home build will likely take multiple years to complete.
This is hyperbole. The vast majority of houses, even today, go from idea->house in less than 12 months. There are still plenty of other reasons why OP is dumb, though.

marjorie
May 4, 2014



Dik Hz posted:

This is hyperbole. The vast majority of houses, even today, go from idea->house in less than 12 months. There are still plenty of other reasons why OP is dumb, though.

Are you talking about actual raw land, draft up custom build plans, build custom house (that's not like a hunting shack) or are you talking about tract developments or something? Because I'm talking about the former and I don't think that saying it's typically a multi-year process is hyperbole. If the land is cleared and already has utilities\septic\whatever, and you're using a "custom" builder that has a bunch of premade architectural plans to pick from then okay, a year is probably closer to the mark (I don't necessarily agree it's that short for a "vast majority" of cases, but I also am not looking it up so I won't dispute it). But that's not what I was referencing and it doesn't sound like that's the OP's main interest either (of course that's just a best guess since they don't want to tell us their main interest). I'll admit that since that sort of "custom" house and full-on development builds make up a majority of new house builds, maybe that's my mistake for assuming they wanted to talk about actual custom builds.

Kinda an unnecessary slap fight anyway though, because even if it "only" takes a year, there's still a ton of stuff that goes on and my point still stands that any actual story someone has at the ready to tell will likely be a horror story and the OP seems to want (again based on my best guess) more than just that.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009





Grimey Drawer

marjorie posted:

Are you talking about actual raw land, draft up custom build plans, build custom house (that's not like a hunting shack) or are you talking about tract developments or something? Because I'm talking about the former and I don't think that saying it's typically a multi-year process is hyperbole.

I'm watching an previously undeveloped lot a few streets away that very obviously has power and internet on its road frontage get built. They took the bulk of last year's "digging season" to clear trees, grade, get a septic system in and drill a well.

This year they are moving along at a pace that makes it appear they will be under a roof by the time it gets really cold, and will probable spend the winter+ on interior, etc. Then next spring/summer they just might be able to get the landscaping done.

As you know, this is not a unique situation/timeline. And this is literally right off a public road. It's as easy as it gets for formerly undeveloped land.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


The housing market is so hosed up right now, it's almost impossible to give any sort of advice right now. Tradesmen are in high demand, supply chain is hosed up making materials either cost 3 times as much as they used to, or just not even be available. This is not a great time to try to build a house right now.

My parents used to build semi-custom and custom homes. They were a small company, maybe did 10 or 12 builds a year and a few remodeling projects. They'd do anything from 130K starter homes to 800K McMansions.

A basic, pre stamped set of plans from a book or architect, slab on grade home with basic finishes could be built in 120 days back in the day. That's with minimal scheduling issues. Things move slower now since everyone is so busy. I live in a 'hood being built by a national builder, and they're running almost 9 months on new construction builds due to scheduling issues. Permits are taking longer, inspections are taking longer, everything is taking longer. They've only got 1 framing crew, there are slabs that have been poured for a month they haven't got the frame on yet. It's nuts.

The best piece of advice I can give you, is the success of your home build will be directly related to how good of a General Contractor you hire. Construction is a relationship business. The right GC knowing who to call, what crews to use, what friendships he can leverage when something goes wrong, and local experience is the most important part of the build.

This can be a shock to people our age who are used to doing everything online, on demand, and generally avoid talking on the phone or dealing with people in person as much as possilbe. You're not likely going to get a framing crew or electrician to give you a bid on your house plans by uploading a PDF to their website. I dropped off many sets of blueprints to job sites or contractors houses when I was a teenager for my parents.

The second is have a ton of money. Whatever you think the house is going to cost, go ahead and add 50% to it, and then have another 15% in reserves just in case. It's really easy in the budgeting process to say "oh yeah 4 dollars a sq for flooring should be plenty" and then you get to the flooring store and nothing but the 7 dollar a sq ft stuff will do. Interior finishes can make a huge difference in costs.

That money also needs to be liquid. Construction loans are available, but you'll need excellent credit and quite a bit of assets to back them up. It's much easier if you can bankroll this yourself. A good relationship with a smaller local bank or credit union can make this a little easier. My parents had a good working relationship with a rural bank in KS that would handle construction loans for their clients when needed. (circling back to the whole relationship thing in the construction industry)


I could write a ton about it all but it's easier to answer specific questions. Buying land is easy. It can be difficult to get utilities to rural land, you have to plan for water/septic, electricity, and you should have a plan in place for extended power outages because you'll be very low on the list of people to get fixed if something goes wrong.


Looking over that vtwoods.life blog about their house building a few things stand out

1) He lists no pricing at all that I can see. He's building a passive Haus in the VT mountains, this is going to be a very expensive house, it sounds like they have the means to build this house though
2) His timeline was off. One of his first posts was something along the lines of "we hope to be moved in by next summer" and he doesn't have kitchen counters yet, and some of the doors don't fit in his house as of mid september.






A bit off topic, but I've noticed a trend of people that romanticize the opposite of their current situation and think it's so much better than their current situation and changing their life is going to finally make them happy. City folks want to move to a rural area and raise some chickens and goats. Computer touchers think it would be amazing to be woodworkers or lumberjacks. Reality is often much different than what you think it might be and you're just trading one set of issues for another, while happiness continues to elude you. I've lived in big cities and in rural areas, and rural life is not all its cracked up to be. Fun to visit, not so fun to live in.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



The relatives I had that built and sold their dream home took a little over 2 years. That was virgin land that they drove a ~1 mile “driveway” (access road) to a clearing that was then further cleared for the house, barn, sheds etc. Then installing septic, digging a well, and running electricity out from the lines on the road. Then the actual construction.

IIRC the actual build took a year-ish (there was some finishing stuff and minor post- construction problems with workmanship that dragged out, but they were in the house and living there), and the previous year and change was developing the lot into something that could be built on.

Edit: this was up north where you get winters with snow and a muddy season when it all thaws. So the work wasn’t non-stop.

B-Nasty
May 25, 2005



Has anyone posted the spec house build done by the Essential Craftsman YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGCC-_Cuhhw&list=PLRZePj70B4IwyNn1ABhJWmBPeX1hGhyLi

He does a good job of showing every step, from raw land to finished product. He is doing a large bulk of the carpentry himself, and it's still taken him over 2 year to complete. I believe the house went up for sale at the end of the Summer.

Alarbus
Mar 31, 2010


skipdogg posted:

Looking over that vtwoods.life blog about their house building a few things stand out

1) He lists no pricing at all that I can see. He's building a passive Haus in the VT mountains, this is going to be a very expensive house, it sounds like they have the means to build this house though
2) His timeline was off. One of his first posts was something along the lines of "we hope to be moved in by next summer" and he doesn't have kitchen counters yet, and some of the doors don't fit in his house as of mid september.



The VTWoods blog is by goon he1ixx, he was posting in the Home Zone thread for a while. Someone drag him into this discussion!

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



Alarbus posted:

The VTWoods blog is by goon he1ixx, he was posting in the Home Zone thread for a while. Someone drag him into this discussion!

Actually let's leave that there and get this thread back to bidding 30% over asking and waiving all contingencies.

marjorie
May 4, 2014



spwrozek posted:

Actually let's leave that there and get this thread back to bidding 30% over asking and waiving all contingencies.

Haha yes, please do this because I'm dangerously close to entering the market and I need to be dissuaded. I keep telling myself it's fine because I'd be selling and buying, and my current area has appreciated more in the time since I bought than the area I'm looking into (mostly because it had more room to appreciate). But I'd still be increasing my mortgage if I move so I should really save up more, and hearing about the dumb market helps keep me strong.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

It's a handshake in progress


I just did the "sell high, buy even higher" move, got a nice upgrade and while the whole process is crazy right now it worked out fine for me. Lower interest rate, to boot. Sorry I couldn't help, OP

marjorie
May 4, 2014



QuarkJets posted:

I just did the "sell high, buy even higher" move, got a nice upgrade and while the whole process is crazy right now it worked out fine for me. Lower interest rate, to boot. Sorry I couldn't help, OP

Oof, yeah and I'm at 3.25 from my refi last year (I was taking off MIP, so it's already paid for itself) so I'd probably get a decrease in interest rate as well. I hadn't even thought about that pro. Quick, someone tell me how the PNW is dying and I shouldn't dig my heels in deeper.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

It's a handshake in progress


I just bought in the PNW, and I love it! Sorry again OP

marjorie
May 4, 2014



Oh ffs!

Okay, well this house I'm looking at has been on the market for a month (this is after being relisted because a deal earlier in the summer fell through). There's gotta be something wrong with it (I'm in Portland and it's in a pretty desirable neighbourhood so this time on market is pretty unusual). Next thing you're going to tell me is to schedule a viewing.

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Involuntary Sparkle
Aug 11, 2004

Chemo-kitties can have “accidents” too!



spwrozek posted:

Actually let's leave that there and get this thread back to bidding 30% over asking and waiving all contingencies.

Doing this today but only 9% over since that hits our financial ceiling (what we feel comfortable affording, not what we can actually afford). This will be house offer number 7.

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