Danaru posted:
Witnessed! E:sniped, but at least the update won't be at the end of the previous page! 
That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 09:25
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Reign of Queen Ilysia I, Dilemma 3, Moderation Vote Results posted:
 What happens next? House Gambol has up to 24h to decide how to Moderate the vote. This means:
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Feb 8, 2021 10:48
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Gambol treasurer Cousins, should we decide on our own or auction off the decision? Basic rules for the auction in the second case: Auction starts at X coins (amount tbd). Multiple houses can pool their offers towards the same result. We are NOT signing that negative sticker, thank you very much. Anyone buying the AYE automatically buys the rights to sign the negative sticker. No, there's no discount for this.  If multiple people pool for the AYE, they also must declare who will be signing the negative sticker for the offer to be valid. We still sign any other envelope coming out. This should cover everything but I reserve the right to patch these rules before actually starting the auction.
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Feb 8, 2021 11:07
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Since this may create doubts, the Moderation window will close either when House Gambol accepts a proposal or once I get their final decision, but no later than about 24h from now. This means that if House Gambol doesn't provide a decision by then or strike a bargain by then, they won't be able to accept anything retroactively - not even offers that are on the table - and they'll just have to pick an option between Aye or Nay with them as the signers. EDIT: declaring that House Gamble will automatically accept "offer X" at the end of the window is also valid, but of course no further negotiation will be possible after the window closes. That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 11:27
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Omobono posted:Gambol treasurer  Do we really have time for this? The military needs to be fed, one way or the other.
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Feb 8, 2021 14:00
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Bellmaker posted:
 We don't appear to be debating if we feed the soldiers, but whether we cut costs by mixing in grey wheat. No one seems to want to be the deciding factor & therefore we're collectively defaulting to Nay, unless someone has a better argument now that we've all feasted on the power left over from the Rumbelle Royale.
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Feb 8, 2021 17:10
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Bellmaker posted:
 Senator We're basically restarting the dilemma debate, but with coins and no 'pass and gather power'. That said, nobody seems interested enough in Aye to bear the sticker. Danaru posted:
I had thought they might pass and become Moderator, so I did not know what they were trying to do. Care to comment?
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Feb 8, 2021 17:32
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C... posted:I had thought they might pass and become Moderator, so I did not know what they were trying to do. Care to comment? Yeah that's what I thought too
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Feb 8, 2021 17:42
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C... posted:
Danaru posted:Yeah that's what I thought too The will of The Mother works in mysterious ways... Wait, what do you mean we're the biomedical technology house and we can't just fall back on that old gem of an obfuscation? Uh... Uhhhh... SMOKE BOMB! 
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Feb 8, 2021 18:29
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 Senator Passing to become the Moderator is indeed nice, but passing to gather some of that sweet, sweet Power? That's the real game of thrones.
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Feb 8, 2021 18:37
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scavy131 posted:
"So you're saying I can become more powerful by...doing nothing?" "Yes, that's right." "Okay. So what's the catch?" "No catch. You just need to relax and you will naturally become more powerful and influential." "Nothing at all?" "Yes! Great, right?" "I'm sorry, I think you've lost me." "Okay...let's go through this for the fifth time."
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Feb 8, 2021 18:41
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oldskool posted:
So we all agree on nay, then? It seems pointless to shuffle wealth around while our soldiers wait for food? They may run out while we quibble over what grain to give them. [ooc] I figured one of you factions would care about wealth 
Bellmaker fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 19:04
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Treasurer Ladies and gentlemen, the auction will open soon. Rules: This is an auction. This means the winning bid cannot be retracted and it'll be automatically accepted by House Gambol when the auction ends. Neither House Gambol nor the winning house can back out of a winning bid. Auction ends when That Italian Guy starts writing the update, at the end of the 24h period. I assume he'll post "auction over" or something in the thread for cutoff. Highest bid wins. Houses can coordinate to share their coins into a single bid. I'm fairly sure there's no way to prevent this under game rules anyways. An AYE bid by a single house automatically includes a binding agreement to sign the negative sticker by the bidder. An AYE bid by multiple houses must clearly state who amongst the bidders is going to sign the negative sticker, otherwise it is not valid. In no case will House Gambol sign that negative sticker if the auction is successful. Even if we wanted to after seeing it. No other signing rights are up for sale during this auction. If an envelope comes out, we sign it. For better or worse, as this clause might end up biting House Gambol. With a minimum starting bid of 4 gold, the auction is now OPEN. Omobono fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 19:16
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Please refer any questions about how we would moderate if nobody is interested to our current sitting councilmember, LPFinale. I'll let them decide if they want to influence the auction with that knowledge.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:20
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 Senator A minimum of 4 coins, eh? I'm not the treasurer for my house, but if I were, I'd say you could shove your gavel someplace where the sun doesn't shine. There's nothing in this decision that's worth that much.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:33
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House Lethe Treasurer I am sure the Mother will guide House Gambol to make the correct decision in this case without our interference.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:38
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High Scholar OK, I'm going to put all the cards on the table here. Our agenda configuration is one that would benefit most greatly from Aye this round. We have chosen not to back that. Instead, we are backing Nay, exclusively because sometimes you have to set aside your differences and take action in a direction that you think will be of greatest benefit to the kingdom. I'm extremely certain that this card will progress the 'dark bread' storyline, and I'm starting to become extremely worried about where that storyline is going. So, I believe that a Nay here is critically important. Regarding what happened with the deal, we thought House Cyfoeth (who we believe to be the only other House who would appreciate an Aye in this dilemma) might vote Aye while other houses Passed for Power. So, we paid them off not to vote with the intent to force an all-Pass (which has happened), whereupon, we assumed that as Gambol was not interested in signing the negative sticker, they would mod-decide Nay and the dilemma would be over. Instead, we get this. Blastinus posted:
House Gambol: what you are doing is a bad thing. If you really cared about the direction the dilemma went you could have just decided for free, since you had the moderator position. Instead, you're choosing to line your own pocket in the most blatant way imaginable. So, I echo Blastinus's thoughts above: I - House Daucus - is not going to give you any money, and I encourage the other Houses not to do so.
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Feb 8, 2021 21:59
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Quackles posted:
Senator Key point is bolded above; we don't strongly care about this one. The story will be interesting whichever way it progresses. If no one else cares strongly, we'll do whatever we like. But it seems hypocritical to say that we're doing a bad thing when the thing we're doing (using Coin to influence the outcome of a Dilemma) is both the thing you did a few hours ago buying Cyfoeth off the Aye position, and ... the main action performed in C... fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 22:11
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C... posted:
I'd like to just add something of a follow-up here. I don't care specifically about the act of using coin to influence a dilemma. However, remember the ultimate point of the game: it's not really winning, per se. That's the point in the rules, but the actual point of this is to help the Kingdom of Ankist grow and prosper. As such, story considerations override all else. So, if it's "should we hold a joust" or even "do we make replicas of the Scarlet Tide", well, OK, whatever. Bargain like your hair is on fire. I welcome it. But in a case like this, where my story senses are screaming at me that there could be serious long-term consequences for getting this wrong, we have to work together for the benefit of everyone. And selling off a decision in this particular way, when it could be a long-term story decision, smacks of carelessness - or callousness.
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Feb 8, 2021 22:22
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Treasurer Quackles posted:And selling off a decision in this particular way, when it could be a long-term story decision, smacks of carelessness - or callousness. What precisely are you suggesting we - or House Gambol - should do / have done, though? Feel bad about not having a preference? Neither of these options screams "vital story progression, choose this or you hate fun" to me; if you feel differently, you have plenty of money to bid with.
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Feb 8, 2021 22:43
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Senator This seems like a great point in the story for some increased stakes. I cannot imagine there is a 'game over' three hours into a thirty hour... kingdom. If you're arguing that the council should act in the way you feel most comfortable with at each juncture, you should either advocate for your position well, bargain like your hair is aflame, or buy a copy of the game and play it solo. Finally, the point of this game is not to help the Kingdom of Ankist grow and prosper - too much growth and prosperity is a failure state, just as too little. The point is to collaboratively tell a story that weaves our houses' desires and the fate of the Kingdom together.
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Feb 8, 2021 22:49
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megane posted:
Well, if everyone passed, it was entirely possible for everyone to have mutual gain and a good ending for the card by moderator decision, so I'm not upset at anyone for passing. Heck, we did. But, in the case of House Gambol, they should have voted Nay as moderator instead of auctioning off their vote. More broadly, if the question is, "Are we supposed to ignore our agenda to ensure a good ending for significant story beats?", the answer is "yes". C... posted:
OK, you have me there. I could have advocated the importance of this story decision a lot better. I did most of the advocating to the rest of my House, instead of to all of you. C... posted:Finally, the point of this game is not to help the Kingdom of Ankist grow and prosper - too much growth and prosperity is a failure state, just as too little. The point is to collaboratively tell a story that weaves our houses' desires and the fate of the Kingdom together. I'm not talking about the resource tracker. Just story outcomes. Quackles fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 22:50
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Ooc I don't think anyone's wrong about wanting to ~~~see the storyline~~~, but I submit that we trust the mechanism for doing so - by playing our respective objectives, not just seeing story for its own sake.
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Feb 8, 2021 23:45
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Seeing as C... pointed out that I hadn't really explained myself, and under the conviction that late is better than never, I'm going to try and explain my position in more detail. First off: This appears to be a followup of the last dark gray bread dilemma, so it'll probably advance the story. Second: The game wouldn't be making as big of a deal about this if there wasn't something of relevance with the gray bread. I suspect that the gray bread is harmful in some way down the line, and feeding it to the army could seriously sandbag us if something happens in the future (see also: bigass red iron fortress that we might need an army to help with). ...that's pretty much my entire train of thought. But it was bothering me enough during the initial discussion that I made the choice to pivot the house to Nay. Now for why I didn't explain myself. 1. I thought I wouldn't need to - it seemed likely that everyone would pass (except House C) and when I asked House G how they would moderate, I took their response to mean they would vote Nay. So things would work out without needing to convince anyone. 2. I also didn't realize that I had been so opaque to the thread - I still haven't made a status report for this dilemma, even. But we can chalk this one up to a certain lack of self-awareness. 3. Deep down, I was worried things would go the other way - This may be irrational of me, but I've always low-key worried that if I set out the full reasons why I'm doing something in a situation like this, someone else will try to make things go the other direction out of sheer cussedness. I'm speaking up now because I couldn't really stay quiet about it. Quackles fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 23:50
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As a side note to this discussion - and I'm not saying that this is happening right now or even that we have one or more of these Houses in our current game - the level of wellbeing for the Kingdom of Ankist at large may be more or less relevant depending on the individual objectives of each House. Let's say that this could vary from "I love everyone" to "I guess we could profit from this" to "I literally want to see the Kingdom burn." Again, I'm not saying that this is relevant to the discussion at hand or our game at large, but assuming OOC that everyone is 100% behind Team Ankist IC all the time may be a misconception 
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Feb 8, 2021 23:57
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Fully agree with you on almost every point, Quackles. This is a continuation of that story arc. The gray bread is obviously, ominously harmful, and feeding it to our soldiers is likely to put some weird bad cards into our Dilemma deck. None of that is actually a problem, though. The Dilemma deck will gain weird bad cards by the dozens before we're done, and Ankist will muddle through. If we were obligated to only pick good outcomes, and could avoid all misfortune and complexity, this would be a very boring game. I've heard it's a very interesting game, so I believe there will be snarls, pitfalls, major challenges, and catastrophes lying in wait along many branches of the story. The point isn't to dodge them. There's no "wrong" choices, though this Aye clearly feels like an "evil" choice. That said, we don't know what the victory condition of the game is! As the family that has the most black crowns so far, maybe we want to be unleashing disasters? Maybe only in tribulation can the greatest heroes emerge? Maybe it's a false choice, and the story branches collect again, Telltale-style? I have no idea.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:02
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That Italian Guy posted:As a side note to this discussion - and I'm not saying that this is happening right now or even that we have one or more of these Houses in our current game - the level of wellbeing for the Kingdom of Ankist at large may be more or less relevant depending on the individual objectives of each House. Let's say that this could vary from "I love everyone" to "I guess we could profit from this" to "I literally want to see the Kingdom burn." Oh, I'm not assuming. I'm just trying to horse everyone into acting that way anyway. C... posted:Fully agree with you on almost every point, Quackles. [sigh] Yeah, you're right. But it feels wrong not to try. And I worry that there won't be 'wrong' choices - up until there are. Thank you for listening, though.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:05
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the_kings_dilemma.gif This should be in the OP 
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Feb 9, 2021 00:17
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C... posted:
This is my view too, FWIW.
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Feb 9, 2021 01:01
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Sitting Councilmember The discussion on display in the council tonight has been intriguing, to say the least. Taking into account the consequences of what might happen... well, to call this particular issue a Dilemma would be an understatement. Speaking from a standpoint of outcomes separate from the matter of our resources and stickers, my thoughts proceed as follows: The Negative Sticker on the Aye has me suspicious. As much as it could mean it precedes a disaster that could be pinned on one of our Houses and will haunt us for generations, let it be known that this is leadership; sometimes, the move for the kingdom's best interests may be unpopular and damning in the eyes of the commonfolk. In explaining what I mean, let's work backwards from what we know for certain. No matter what the true result of the Aye is, it will burden its signer with a black mark on their reputation. Now, assuming the bread is plenty adequate for our soldiers, and it very well may be, what would cause the citizens of Ankist to view the signers with disdain? Seeing as we've already addressed a Dilemma over the Crimson Tide's potential reproduction, you should all be well familiar with our nation's pride. Personally, I see pride as an easy path to self-destruction when a truly terrible situation comes up, but our separation from the commonfolk means that pride is something we must take into consideration. Specifically, their pride. The pride of our farmers, our hard-working field-goers who in less troubling times would see to it that the nation and its military were well-fed. These are no ordinary times, though, and so push shall come to shove. Pride, however? Pride never backs down. Pride is a force that will see feeding our elite fighting forces with the newly-invented bread of an unfamiliar nation as a grave offense, an attack on the green thumbs and hard workers in the nation's fields. I will not lie to you, councilmembers; should no one find the offer tempting, House Gambol intends to opt for Nay. The coffers may run dry from a Nay, but the sort of reputation that would come with an Aye is not something we're prepared to endure. If anyone, any one of you, should find there is merit in taking the fall for the sake of a nation's wealth and food in a famine, I assure you, our doors are always open. I've little idea if the bread would even be successfully redistributed before it rots or goes bad should the Nay go through. The bureaucracy of getting such supplies in position for the military and then getting them back to the public merchant stalls is one I'm unfamiliar with, yet pessimistic towards.
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Feb 9, 2021 01:38
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Councilmember Yes, it does seem off, and certainly not worth the price for signing. A lower price would be required for us to want it.
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Feb 9, 2021 02:56
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Reign of Queen Ilysia I, Dilemma 3, ResolutionVote Results posted:
Vote Outcome posted:
Reign of Queen Ilysia I, Dilemma 4 History of the Kingdom of Ankist posted:Hall of Rulers - Foreman/Sitting Councilmember: Slaan (also Treasurer)   - Sitting Councilmember: Omobono - Treasurer/Navigator: C... - Sitting Councilmember: Sighence (also Treasurer) - High Scholar/Sitting Councilmember: Oblivion4568238 (also Treasurer)   - Sitting Councilmember: megane - Treasurer/Negotiator: Bellmaker Dilemma4 posted:
A 48h voting window is now open! - Sitting Councilmembers can send me a PM/Email with their final decision. Please consult the OP if you need a refresher on the rules! - Treasurers can now start bribing. Please consult the OP if you need a refresher on the rules! - Senators are free to discuss the Dilemma and provide their feedback. Don't forget that every choice could have consequences that are not spelled out outright on the front of the card! Also, please remember that the thread is the main discussion platform for your vote intention - the Sheet is only to be used when discussing high level strategy, bargaining strategies and items on the sheet itself.
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Feb 9, 2021 11:34
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Sitting councilmember Leave the treasure behind. Those are certainly words, but I can't really understand their meaning. Still, someone is getting stiffed either way. I feel we should be taking everything, both for the royal treasury and to prevent plenty of fools to lose their life trying to strike it rich with a known treasure. They should lose their lives seeking new ones. Omobono fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Feb 9, 2021 |
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Feb 9, 2021 12:44
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Omobono posted:
Navigator An interesting decision; a plague on both your outcomes! Either we take the wealth, or we ... inspire people to do something risky, improving morale? Forestall a curse improving morale? Probably that one. Hmm. E: or leave the reliquary un-plundered, that tracks. Another House guaranteeing they would bear the public repercussions would encourage Gambol to commit more resources on their behalf. C... fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Feb 9, 2021 |
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Feb 9, 2021 16:12
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Senator I understand conceptually that the words 'leave the treasure behind' are technically grammatically correct, but when put together in that order I just can't understand their meaning. We've just funneled a huge portion of the treasury to keep our soldiers fed, now we've found a way to recoup our deficit and we'd decide not to? Foolishness. I put no stock into these heathen's tales of curses, but I do know that what is left behind will be an inevitable draw for graverobbers and bandits. We should secure all of these treasures now or they'll filter in the black markets to our enemies and heathens.
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Feb 9, 2021 16:21
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C... posted:or we ... inspire people to do something risky, improving morale?
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Feb 9, 2021 16:25
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We have emptied our coffers to feed our people and our soldiers. Other than this, our realm is stable and healthy. Let us fix our sole problem of wealth and continue the Queen's wise reign. Nay
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Feb 9, 2021 17:17
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The Boy Who Speaks Ok y'all the Snakes are gonna want to go hard and fast away from leaving the treasure and are highly incentivized to do so. Let's make that difficult. House Cyfoeth will commit one fewer power to Nay than the highest amount publically committed to Nay by another house.
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Feb 9, 2021 17:24
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Sighence posted:
Treasurer Are you sure we’re for leaving the treasure behind? I am not so sure, it is a complicated issue. There are merits for both sides and we will need time to discuss. Bellmaker fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Feb 9, 2021 |
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Feb 9, 2021 18:27
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| # ? May 18, 2024 02:06 |
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Senator I think my esteemed housemember merely extrapolated from decisions made previously. It was with no small measure of stridency that some houses opposed exploration of the southern lands. However now that we've come upon such treasures I should suggest that it'd be a great misfortune to leave such artifacts to The Mother amidst ruin and the threat of graverobbery. Surely artifacts such as these need to be kept in safe, holy hands where the timeless nature of the worship of The Mother can be lauded even more, and we can't do so by leaving them to sink further into the sand.
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Feb 9, 2021 19:43
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