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Cardiovorax posted:It's not the email address that matters, the Countess probably doesn't even know what a computer is. It's the psychic connection, which Meltzer must have someone picked up while working with Mitchell at the New Yorker. What's weird is that it only started now, Mitchell has been dead for like ten years at this point. Ghosts interfere with electronics, so it'd presumably be hard for her to use a computer in the first place...but even if she did, the emails are blank except for the name*. "John Goldwater" and "Frank Lyons" aren't unique names and there's no identifying details, so it's pretty clear that the Countess has an actual psychic link to know who they actually are referring to. *Presumably this is before the invention of email filters
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Nov 5, 2013 03:19
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EagerSleeper posted:Maybe he stopped smoking when he realized he just couldn't beat Lauren's 47 cigarettes-in-one-night record? In that case, I like to imagine that Lauren convinced Joey to "cast his sins aside". Except instead of then destroying the cigarette with a cobblestone, she just smoked it.  If you smoke that cigarette, his sins will become yours as well. You do not want that... oh. You already did it. Great. Do you know how much paperwork this is going to mean for me?!quote:There's a lot to talk about since the last couple of updates, but remember way back whenever we had that fancy looking Elizabethan ghost who kept showing up in Rosa's dreams to teach her lessons and stuff, but then she'd wipe our minds and then call us chumps for not heeding the lessons she wiped from us? Count me in as another person who never liked it whenever stories did that. Just had to get that off my chest. I don't mind them doing it once, but three times so far is probably too much. At least we're approaching the end of the game so the payoff can't be far away! quote:I don't care if these guys are going to wind up being the villains, they're the best. I just love the image of Paul's grinning face while Charlie's sprite glares sideways back at him  And yes, as mentioned, I am using Australian spelling in my comments. I thought about trying to make my comments consistent with the dialogue, but I'd only get it wrong anyway.Picayune posted:Quick, Rosa! Get a big metal collar and hide it under a turtleneck! Forget that, pull out Lauren's old clothes and light up a drat cigarette. The Countess has only failed to kill her target once that we know about, time to retrace some footsteps!
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Nov 5, 2013 04:36
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WickedHate posted:poo poo. This is getting pretty serious. Hmm...but Rosangela knows both their email accounts now though. Presumably, if she wanted to, she could turn it back on them. I'd just type "The Countess" and make her 'save' herself.
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Nov 5, 2013 06:15
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I do sort of wonder if Paul really knows what's going on. It was Charlie who worked at the paper, and presumably he found something in Mitchell's things that let him figure out how to control the countess while there, and it's Charlie's email that has the hit list names in it, so Charlie almost certainly is guilty. However, when Rosa leaves, Paul doesn't seem to be guilty or worried, he doesn't ask Charlie if he thinks Rosa knows or anything. He just calls Rosa crazy, and with (as far as he knows) nobody else in the room, what cause does he have to pretend?
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Nov 5, 2013 06:54
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Update 13 Prelude to Tragedy  LAST TIME  Those loving sons of bitches down at Meltzer just signed Rosa's death warrant.  Rosa is understandably rattled here.  That son of a... Mess with us, will he? He just marked me. I'm next.Joey tries to reassure her... Look, don't worry. She might not come right away. We have time to plan. The Countess Returns  Unfortuntely, Joey couldn't be more mistaken. The Countess arrives almost immediately, which is a bit of a departure. In the case of Claude it took some time, since the Countess obviously started searching for him before he drew the painting, which he used as a kind of beacon for her. I guess, unlike Claude and the others, the Countess didn't have to "search" for Rosa. She knew exactly who Rosa was already. Alternatively, Lauren hinted in Unbound that mediums can sense once another, which might also explain things.  You killed Claude. And the others. I did not kill! I healed them!The Countess is still very insane, which bodes very badly for Rosa.  Just back away. Real slow like. I only want to help. I think we've had about enough of your "help", lady.Joey steps up to the plate.  Hopefully he'll do better than the last time  I have to help her. Just let me help her! Oh yeah? Joey throws a quick jab, but the Countess has powers well beyond anything Joey can muster, and he quickly finds himself locked in a losing battle with her. Ghost Battle  She's not going to die. She's not. Just stay back, Red. I've got this.With Joey using all of his effort just to hold the Countess at bay, he is not able to do anything else in this scene. Joey! Are you all right? Just... peachy. Get outta here, will ya?Note that the Ghost Battle music is actually just the old Lauren and the Countess music used in Blackwell Unbound again. Obviously Regin was happy enough with it to repeat it here. It is very good for what it is. Get away from him! Kid, she's here to KILL you! I can handle her. Just make yourself scarce!Rosa screams at the Countess, but she has all of her focus on Joey.  It might be a good idea to take Joey's advice and get the hell out of here. Of course, Rosa can only go so far, because she has to stay within 30 feet of Joey.  Rosa batters on Nishanthi's door, but the drat lady is out again. She's not in. Not that it matters. She wouldn't be able to protect me from a ghost anyway. Rosa tries to hop into the elevator, but it just won't arrive. Stupid elevator. Must be stuck a few floors down. In a fit of desperation, Rosa eyes the garbage room as a possible hiding place.  Meanwhile, the Countess has gotten past Joey and has come outside searching for Rosa. You think I'm telling you? Where!Joey decides to play a bit of double-reverse psychology. Well, I know for sure she's not through that door behind you. Fortunately, in her addled state, the Countess falls for Joey's trick, and heads into Nishanthi's apartment. I hope poor Moti isn't in there  With nowhere left to run, Rosa hastily retreats back to her apartment. This whole scene is pretty drat tense.  Rosa starts to have a panic attack, before stopping herself and trying to steel her resolve. Come on, Rosa. Auntie did it thirty years ago. So can you. Almost as though it was a premonition, the photo of Lauren and Rosa on the Brooklyn Bridge falls loose on the wall. Rosa walks over and takes it, almost imploring for help from Lauren.  Auntie's picture is loose... *sigh* I wish you were here, Auntie. I really do. All too soon, the Countess reemerges, with Joey in tow. That's far enough, sister.Rosa seems to have grown sick of running, however. Joey. Leave it. Leave it? Like hell. Joey takes another swipe at the Countess who turns his attention back to him. In a final act of defiance, Rosa whips out the picture of Lauren and shoves it in the face of the Countess. Hey! Look at this! Who... That's...The Countess quickly recognises the face of Lauren from all those years ago.  I wanted to help her...The Countess still thinks that she was "helping" Lauren  She really is a tragic character. Joey is in no mood for sympathy, however. And look where it got you. You think anyone appreciates your help?Having finally gotten next to Rosa, the Countess responds moodily. No. In The Wrong Place   NOOO!!JESUS CHRIST Somehow, rather than merely strangling Rosa, the Countess is able to tap into the link to Nodespace that exists between Joey and Rosa, and the three of them find themselves poised on the brink of eternity. Quickly regaining consciousness, Rosa is shocked to find herself in the last place she expected to be. How'd we end up here? I have brought you here. You are safe now. I have saved you."Saved" her? Does that mean... Rosa is dead? Saved me? What do you mean, saved me? What did you do? I... I don't know. Lady, I suggest you start talking.Joey is still talking tough, but he sounds really lost and worried here. There is nothing to say. You are safe, now. Both of you. Suddenly, a familiar voice rings through the ether, and our mysterious ghost lady reappears. This scene is choreographed beautifully with the music, with the muted saxophone kicking in right as she appears. I've been looking for you for so long! Why did you leave me?The Countess immediately recognises the ghost lady as her former spirit guide. That answers one of the many questions we have here.  My poor host. You cast me out. You broke our bond. It's too late to repair it. What? No! Why would I do that?Wait... the Countess got rid of her guide, rather than the other way around? Your mind is so broken that you do not remember? My my, you are a mess. You don't even know your own name. "Countess", indeed.This lady seems like she can't decide whether she feels sorry for, or bitter towards, the Countess. Probably both, if she's right about the Countess breaking their bond. Regardless, it is time for this to end. End? Is there an end? For you, there can be. If you let me. I trust you, Madeline. I always will trust you.Finally, we have a name for the mysterious ghost lady. Madeline then turns her attention to Rosa and Joey.  I'm sorry it had to be under such... unpleasant circumstances.Rosa is struck dumb, but Joey is quick to speak his mind. Unpleasant is right. Who are you? My name is Madeline. And a long time ago, I was this poor soul's spirit guide. She corrupted our bond, and I'm afraid the damage to both of us was quite severe.I wonder how she corrupted their bond?  I'm still not even sure if Rosa herself is dead or not Who are you? As I said, my name is Madeline. And a long time ago, I was a spirit guide to the woman you know as the Countess. We were bonded, much like you and your guide are. But much has changed, and time is short. Will you help us?Rosa seems to vaguely recognise her Madeline from her dreams. I know you... I have been trying to reach you in your dreams. At long last, I am able to manifest myself here. But time is short. Will you help us?Madeline is pretty pushy. Joey wants some answers first... We've got some questions first. Yes, I'm sure you do, but time is short. Will you help us?...but they're not forthcoming. Rosa agrees to help out. Yes, I'll help you. I don't have much choice. She's killed me. Wait, really? But regardless, there is no time to waste. Come with me.Hold on, elaborate on the "quite unharmed" bit!!  But no elaboration is forthcoming. Madeline places her hand on Rosa's shoulder, and the two of them vanish off to another plane of existence, much to Joey's horror.  With nobody else to ask, Joey turns to the Countess for answers. The pattern. They are going to fix the pattern! Talk sense, will ya? The source! Cut off the source and the pattern will revert! Why do I bother?Unfortunately, if she is making any sense, Joey can't understand it. Great. Trapped on another plane of existence with the Countess of Crazyville. Looks like Rosa's on her own now. Hopefully she and Madeline can figure out whatever it is they need to figure out, wherever it is they're going!  NEXT TIME  See you all tomorrow! cmndstab fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2013 13:42
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...The restaurant at the end of the universe? That was tense, but now I don't know how it'll wrap up with Paul and Charlie, since, as mentioned, they can't be arrested for the murders. Maybe when the Countess' mind clears, she can haunt them for eternity.
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Nov 5, 2013 14:23
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http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/05/how-giveaways-can-go-wrong-wadjet-eye-interview/#more-175252 An interview with Gilbert mostly about how people tried to rip him off with the Halloween giveaway, but it also states that he's decided to end Blackwell with the next game, out early next year.
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Nov 5, 2013 14:50
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Mokinokaro posted:http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/05/how-giveaways-can-go-wrong-wadjet-eye-interview/#more-175252 I know the news sucks what with Gilbert having someone steal steam keys from him, but man am I ever so pumped up to know that the Blackwell series is coming to a close, and according to the article, he's going to be really ambitious with it too. In 2014, I'll finally get to know what the deal with Joey is. 
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Nov 5, 2013 23:02
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That should be awesome when it does come out Then we'll just need to create enough noise to get him to produce a final prequel covering the rest of Lauren's story! Also for anyone concerned, the Gilbert interview doesn't contain any spoilers for stuff we haven't seen yet, other than a few screenshots from Deception. WickedHate - if nothing else, at least they won't be able to cheat their way into financial success by killing people anymore But all will be revealed over the next handful of updates!Then it will be time to launch into the fourth game!
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Nov 6, 2013 01:58
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drat, she severed the link a while ago. I'm really curious to find out how it happened, but I imagine that's going to be buried in a nice chat with Mr. Seagull.
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Nov 6, 2013 08:08
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Update 14 Last time, the Countess took Rosa into her own Nodespace, fortunately leaving Rosa unharmed. There Rosa met Madeline, the Countess' former spirit guide, and the two of them went to root of all the problems regarding the Countess to see if they could put a stop to them. I'll apologise in advance - this update is heavy on my own speculation and theories about what has happened. Convergence will do a reasonable job of answering the various questions it, and Unbound, have posed for us, but in many cases things will be left up to interpretation. I'm keen to hear your own thoughts about what has happened, or any issues you have with my own speculation! A Strange Diner  The source of the problems appears to be... some kind of diner? What?  Rosa and Madeline rematerialise outside the diner, with Rosa finding herself somewhat disoriented. This is where the link originates. Link? The bond between your Countess and her hosts. Part of her is trapped here. You must remove it.Somehow the link between that binds the Countess to the Meltzer brothers is in this cheap TGI Friday's knockoff.  Rosa is still spellbound by Madeline. Obviously she likes the Victorian garb. This line is a little awkward considering Rosa is around 4 inches from Madeline's face when she says it, though. Madeline? Could I talk to you? Of course.Let's see if we can shed some light on what the hell is going on here. Where are we? You have been to this plane before. You have brought many lost spirits through here. Well yes, but there was never a diner before. I can understand your confusion, but it is not a real diner. It is... metaphorical. As you know, there is a bond between the Countess and her current host. And the bond is represented by this diner. You will find out more inside.It seems that entities in Nodespace which seem physical can actually be metaphorical. I guess that adds credence to the theory that the devil back in Legacy was not literally the devil, but rather a metaphor for the Deacon's own inner demons.  That's a good question. Why a diner? The Deacon saw a devil because he spent a lifetime preaching about that imagery. What does the Countess have to do with diners? The Countess used to spend lots of time in placed like these. You will find out more inside.That's all we'll get out of Madeline on the topic. It's a bit of a weak explanation, but it'll have to suffice for now. Let's ask what we need to actually do. This bond. How do I break it? Part of the Countess is trapped inside. You must find it and remove it.You know, some more details would be helpful here, Madeline. Why are spirit guides always so bad at providing useful information? How did the Countess break the bond between you? She did not break the bond, but moved it. To be rid of me, she had to form a bond with someone living. Someone who could, in essence, become her guide. How she acquired this knowledge, I do not know. I only know that it was accomplished.It must have been difficult for her to gain the knowledge without Madeline watching, since they had to remain within 30 feet of each other at all times. Still, a more pressing question than how she did it, is why she did it? Was it intentional? Did she mean for all of this to happen? Instead, though, Rosa ask a different question altogether. Who did she pass it to? Joe Gould. So that's how he fits into this story. Upon Gould's death, it was passed onto Joseph Mitchell. And now Charlie Meltzer. Yes. It must be broken, if this is to end.So now we get a bit more of the timeline, though not the mechanical details. Somehow the Countess transferred her link to Joe Gould, presumably by spending a fuckload of time in a diner with him. The link passed to Mitchell after he spent a bunch of time with Joe Gould. And then after Mitchell died, the link moved to Charlie. It's not clear here whether the link passed through someone else first before Charlie. It seems that a lot of time in close proximity with someone is required to pass the link on, and Charlie only knew Mitchell because they worked in the same building. Also, it seems unlikely that Charlie didn't write any names down in the ten years between Mitchell's death and Meltzer Foundations being formed. Perhaps there were some intermediate hosts we haven't even heard of yet? How did the Countess get so... Insane? Yes. Like you, her mind is a door to another plane of existence.I don't like the way Madeline starts of answering this question with the words "Like you..."  She essentially has the universe inside her head. And no human mind can contain that. It broke her. She sees everything but understands nothing. If she didn't banish me to this place between worlds, I might feel more pity than I do.That explains the Countess' comments in Unbound about seeing everything, and it hurting. Madeline's comments about being banished are interesting, as well. Presumably she's been sitting around here in the infinite void for the last forty years or so with little hope of ever moving on to the next world. I know I'd be pretty drat bitter by now. Did you know her when she was alive? Of course. We spent almost thirty years together. What was she like? Different. Happier. She loved helping those in need. But it no longer matters. She is the one who needs help, now.Wow, thirty years. Only to have it all go so badly Whatever cosmic force is responsible for creating the link between mediums and spirit guides left some very serious flaws in the system. It's time to put an end to this sorry affair. Thanks, Madeline. I'm going to see what I can do. I will be waiting right here.With no idea what awaits her, Rosa enters the diner.  Inside, she finds two men whose identity is immediately obvious to her, despite never having met them before.  Show some pity! At least lend us a cigarette. Ahem. I believe we've got company. Ahh!Excited at the new arrival, Joe Gould turns his attention to Rosa. Miss, could you perhaps spare a few dollars for the Joe Gould fund? *sigh*Rosa beholds the two ghosts before her.  And Mitchell... He's on the elderly side, but his eyes look sharp and alert.Charlie's spirit is not here, so presumably only dead hosts find themselves here in this diner. So if there have been any intermediate hosts between Mitchell and Charlie, they're still alive.  Rosa decides to speak with Joe Gould. Hello! The name is Joseph Ferdinand Gould. I am graduate of Harvard, magna cum difficultate, and chairman of the board of Weal and Woe, Incorporated. In exchange for a drink, I'll recite a poem, deliver a lecture, argue a point or take off my shoes and imitate a sea gull. I prefer gin, but beer will do.Gould is a rambler, that's for sure. This introductory speech is taken, almost verbatim, from interviews with the real-life Joe Gould. I've been hearing a lot about you, lately. My reputation precedes me! I saw your portrait in the Minetta. The Minetta! Yes, I am quite famous there you know! I gathered.You know, this brings me back to something I haven't thought about for a while. When Frank's ghost was haunting the Gothic Bridge, he kept having what appeared to be schizophrenic episodes where he would adopt the persona of Joe Gould. There doesn't seem to be a good reason for this to have happened. Charlie was the host of the Countess by then. It's possible that somehow, some of Gould's essence ended up imprinted on Frank's, but it doesn't seem to have happened to any of the other ghosts we've found. A bit of a mystery. Unfortunately, while we will get some answers, plenty of questions will remain unanswered by the end of Convergence. It's all thanks to Mitchell, of course. The Joe Gould fund filled its coffers nicely when he wrote his article.But then Gould died shortly afterwards. Back in Unbound, Mitchell mentioned there was a "man in a bar" he wrote about before Isaac and Mavis who died after he wrote his article. It's possible, in retrospect, that Mitchell was talking about Joe Gould. If so, the link must have been passed on while Gould was still alive, and Mitchell's article quickly led to Gould's death.  I don't quite know myself! We've all got to be someplace. As I understand it, I was mentally linked to my old friend, the Countess. I wish I'd known! It explains everything that my work was trying to prove!You know, I only just noticed the clock with no handles on it. Very fitting. Your work? I have had many callings! I studied the seagulls of the world and learned their language. I spent months measuring the heads of one thousand Chippewaw Indians.Again, all of this is based on reality. Gould sounds like he was a complete nutcase. But before I died, I was putting to paper the most important literary work known to Man - the Oral History of our Time! It was a compilation of all the conversations of the city - overheard in bars, subways, street corners and diners. Put together and studied properly, it would revolutionize everything! How would it have revolutionized everything? We are all connected. Every single one of us. But HOW? Think of the ramifications if we found out! It sounds like quite an undertaking. It was my life's work.I'm not sure that one link, between the Countess and Gould, would really have proven his theory that everyone was connected, though.  We met in a diner like this one. We'd often spend a week or two walking along the docks to discuss seagulls. She had many interesting theories on seagull linguistics. Then one day she disappeared, but a link had already formed between us. It's everything my Oral History was trying to prove - that we are all linked!That confirms why the link exists in a metaphorical diner - it's where the Countess met Gould. The relationship between the Countess and Madeline must have been very different than that between Rosa and Joey. I can't see Joey accepting Rosa spending an hour walking along a dock to talk to a crazy man about seagulls, let alone several weeks at a time. The Countess is killing people. Murder? No no, I refuse to believe THAT. She couldn't hurt a fly.Perhaps not wilfully, but she is very much capable of hurting people, Gould Why is she called the Countess? That's what she chooses to call herself. Far be it from me to tell her otherwise. The name doesn't seem strange to you? When you lived a life like mine, you take people at face value. Who cares about names?It sounds like she was calling herself the Countess even when she knew Gould in real life. That's a bit odd.  Gould continues with a story about a familiar character to us. The Deacon? You knew the Deacon? Oh yes. He was this gloomy career drunk. One summer night, while sitting in a doorway on the Bowery, he caught the scent of sulphur. He looked up, and saw the Devil himself standing over him! Since that night he believed he lost his soul. Not the most charitable drinking companion, if I may say so. No. No. He wouldn't be. You knew him? Sort of. Fancy that!As I mentioned way back when we were still playing through Legacy, Gilbert included the Deacon after being inspired by a story he read. Specifically, the story was taken from one of Mitchell's articles about Gould. In them, Mitchell related a story told to him by Gould about the Deacon, a man who believed the devil was going to take his soul, and Gilbert was inspired to use the Deacon in his games. Apparently he expected people to recognise the reference and begin speculating as to how Mitchell and Gould fit into the Blackwell universe, but nobody really did. Gilbert has since expressed some amount of regret and guilt at casting Gould and Mitchell in this kind of limbo situation, saying that there is something perverse about taking real-life people and making a game about them being stuck in a diner for all eternity. At least with the Deacon we were able to save his soul, although it is never made clear whether it has been saved literally or metaphorically. As for Gould and Mitchell... well, we'll see what happens.  Rosa now asks about the next link in the chain - Joseph Mitchell. Ah, Mitchell! My benefactor! He made me quite famous, you know! But my goodwill only extends so far. Why's that? A cigarette. He has them. He won't give me one. It's demeaning, to have to beg for one measly cigarette. Rosa asks about Gould's fabled work. And I'd like you to! But I'm afraid it belongs to the ages, now. There's also the problem of it never existing in the first place. Of course it existed! Only not on paper. It was over three million words. Three times the size of the holy bible. The work transcended mere parchment and ink!Actually, according to Gould lore, he usually claimed the Oral History was over nine million words, not three million. The bible contains around 750,000 words so this statement is a bit flawed all around, but we'll chalk that down to Joe Gould not really being all there upstairs. What about those essays you published in the Dial? A passing fancy, nothing more. You wrote essays? For the now defunct Dial magazine. I still have the originals. Do you want to see?The dialogue in this scene is referencing articles that really did exist. In fact, famous 20th century playwright William Saroyan credited an article of Gould's in the Dial as being his inspiration for becoming an author, and actually used some Gould quotes from the article in the play Time Of Your Life that netted him the Pulitzer prize. I'd like to see that essay. Here you go.Let's look at this.  It appears to be an essay about insanity, but the handwriting is so awful I can barely make it out. Just as well. I don't have the time to read all of this stuff.Jesus Christ, that is practicaly illegible. I've done my best translation of it below: An Essay on Insanity By Joseph Ferdinand Gould Insanity is a topic of peculiar interest to me. Despite my theory that people with strong willpower and a sense of humour never go off their nuts, I almost have first hand information about it. There have been times when the black mood was on me. I needed every bit of self-control that I possessed to refrain from shouting aloud or waving my hands in wild gestures that would have brought a curious crowd around me and eventually have landed me in the police station. I could very easily imagine myself locked up as a maniac. Yet all the time, the real me was not in sympathy with these impulses. It made me feel that perhaps there was a basis or truth in the old idea that insanity was caused by forces external to the soul, such as witchcraft. Science affirmed this once. It may do so again. It seems to me likely that many who are held under observation or in detention are in just this pitiable state. They may be adjudged lunatics because of the unconventional antics of the outer body, with which the mind may not be in accord, and most consider absurd. The grim part of it is that the line which... That's all we can see. The article reads like the rantings of a madman, which I guess they were. Of course, the article itself is real. If you want to read the rest of it, you can find it (along with some of Gould's other excerpts) on this page, under the title "Insanity": http://home.pacifier.com/~dkossy/gould.html For now, though, Rosa has no interest in reading the article, so she hands it back to Gould. Here you go. Always glad to share. Next up, she speaks with Joseph Mithcell. I believe you have the better of me, Miss...? Blackwell. Rosangela Blackwell. Blackwell? Hm. I might've known.Oh yeah, he knew Lauren, didn't he? You met my auntie. Your Auntie. Yes, I do see a slight resemblence. I did warn her to leave well enough alone, but she was determined. Let's hope that you can do some good, here. Mitchell is clearly the more together of the two men trapped here, so Rosa turns to him for answers. We are echos. Leftovers, if you will. We were linked to the Countess when we were alive. When we died, part of ourselves got trapped here. So you're not a ghost. Not fully. I'm not sure what I am. I remember living. I remember dying. But I don't feel like Joseph Mitchell. All I know is that when I thought of death, an eternity with Joe Gould was the last thing on my mind.Gilbert actually wrote the whole "they're echos" thing in during post-production just because he felt so guilty about putting his idols in this situation. The line about Mitchell not picturing an eternity with Gould reflects his real-life issues with Gould, who he initially found fascinating, but after time found insufferable. What is your connection to the Countess? I don't know. I never met the woman. Joe Gould was the one who knew her. He had a special bond with her, apparently. But somehow, he passed it onto me when he died. Next thing I knew, I was murdering people by writing about them. There was no choice. I had to stop writing.Mitchell says that Gould passed the link on to him after he died, so I guess the "man in a bar" wasn't Gould, though it would fit nicely if it was. In terms of the real-life timeline, Gould died years before Mitchell's book about him was published, but it's possible that Mitchell wrote some material long before it ended up at the printing press. From memory, Word Of God is that Gould's death was of natural causes, so I guess that's the official version of events, but on the whole this game leaves a number of things fairly ambiguous so you can choose your own preferred version of events. My own personal preference for interpreting the story is that Mitchell wrote about Gould, who just happened to die of natural causes while Mitchell was writing. Mitchell, rightfully, thought nothing of it. But then the bond with the Countess was passed to him, and the next two people he wrote about died. He then reasoned that all three deaths occurred due to his writings. That's the only explanation I can come up with that satisfies all of the things we've heard so far.  Rosa, being a journalist in New York, probably would have heard of Joseph Mitchell before. Now that's just foolish. I was a relic, even before I died. The city that I wrote about has long since evolved and changed into something completely different. But that's New York City, isn't it? It wouldn't be New York if it stayed the same year-to-year.Rosa expresses her sympathy for all that has happened. I'm sorry you had to stop writing. So am I. But, what else could I do? Let innocent people die? No. I don't regret the choice I made. Not for one moment.Next up, let's work out the next link in the chain. Did Mitchell pass the link straight onto Charlie? Did you know Charles Meltzer? Yes. I did. He worked at the New Yorker. Back in the late 70s. He would come into my office and ask about the old days, and I was happy to tell him. I knew he would never cut it as a reporter, but he had a very keen analytical mind. I almost forgot all about him, but it appears a link formed between us nonetheless. When I died, my connection to the Countess passed onto him.He certainly seems to think he did. I wonder what happened in the ten years between Mitchell's death and the forming of the Meltzer Foundation? Perhaps Charlie has actually killed several times without even realising it, or perhaps it was his discovery of this power that gave him the idea to start a risk-free loan business?  Rosa brings Mitchell up to speed on what has been happening. By accident? No. On purpose. He sent her after me. Now that's a shame. I'm aware that, through my actions, I killed a few people. I could forgive myself for it, since I was unaware what I was doing. But many times I thought to myself, I have a weapon. It's untraceable. Nobody knows about it. I can use it. But I did not. I was tempted, but I did not. Not once. You have to stop Charles. Break the link. Destroy this place. No more innocents should have to die.That's a good idea, but how do we do that? How do I break the link? I wish I knew. I'm afraid all this is a bit beyond me.Oh. That's not very useful.  Rosa asks Mitchell about Joe Gould. He's a fascinating man. Intolerable company, but fascinating. He exemplified everything about New York at the time. It's artistic expression, it's frustrations, it's joys and heartbreak. His "Oral History" - or the idea of it - energized the work of dozens of writers and intellectuals. But the more I got to know him, the less I wanted to be around him. Did you ever read Joe Gould's "Oral History"? That? It never existed. Or if it did, Mr. Gould never shared it with anyone, which amounts to the same thing. You know why I never wrote it down! People would have died! You didn't stop telling people you were writing it, did you?I also like how Mitchell scolds Gould for this, while he was perfectly happy to collect thirty years worth of paychecks without ever intending to write another article himself What could I say? The truth? They would have chucked me in a loony bin!Now we get Gilbert's explanation of why Joe Gould was never able to show any excerpts of the Oral History that contained any subject matter other than himself. Presumably he found out early on that anyone he wrote about was getting killed, and stopped putting it onto paper. When you consider his life's work was about the stories of everybody, it's probably a good thing that he didn't write it down, or New York might have been wiped out  This is a neat way to tie together the mystery of Gould's Oral History not existing, and Mitchell never writing again after his book about Joe Gould. In each case, they recognised the power they possessed and immediately shelved any concept of ever writing another word. Their actions are in sharp contrast to those of Charlie. I'm speculating here, but I think this might be an explanation of how the link was passed. We know that Lauren went crazy when she stopped saving ghosts. My theory is, the link fractures or shifts when it's not used often enough. The Countess spent so much time with Gould, she stopped saving ghosts, and the link moved on. Gould stopped writing, so it passed to Mitchell. When he stopped writing, it ended up with Charles. In each case it might just have been a case of the closest person at that time receiving the link. Of course, if my theory is right, it means Charles has been using it regularly for the past decade  Rosa has one final question for Mitchell. When you give that man a cigarette or a drink, he likes to talk. And the only subject Joe Gould likes to talk about - at length - is Joe Gould. And the only person for him to talk to is me. So, I do not give him a cigarette. Would you give him a cigarette if I spoke to him for you? I might. I might. If you can get him away from me, I might. But we can't leave this diner, and the door to that kitchen is locked. Can't you just float through the wall? Believe me, I've tried that. It doesn't work. Not here. Thanks for talking, Mr. Mitchell. I'll see what I can do. Thank you, Miss Blackwell.There really doesn't seem to be much to do in this room besides talk to these two. Presumably the link is elsewhere in the diner. Join me tomorrow as we look at destroying the link and putting an end to this madness. Convergence is almost at a close! cmndstab fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Nov 6, 2013 15:11
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Man, all this time with that kind of power and I'm surprised Charlie didn't set himself up as the god of a new world, if you catch my drift. My main thing is, just where has Victorian lady been all this time? Also, can only girls be mediums? So many questions, but in a good way. I feel intrigued and curious.
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Nov 6, 2013 15:31
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Huh. I'm surprised I was wrong about the Meltzers. I don't know how I feel about it. For all the reaosns in my last post and also, isn't this the first time we've seen a real malevolent villain as opposed to a tragic circumstance? Regardless I'm curious to see where this goes. WickedHate posted:Also, can only girls be mediums? Only evidence we have otherwise is Lauren's passing comment about Joey going to her brother after she died.
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Nov 6, 2013 16:49
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Finally we've reached the point where I can talk about my feelings regarding this game's issue without it being spoilers anymore. A while back, Cmndstab commented on the way the characters all talk about Mitchell and Gould as if they were big celebrities that everyone's heard of. Maybe that's so in New York and maybe in journalism, but I've never heard of them outside of this game. When I was going through Blackwell Unbound, I thought Mitchell was a made-up character and I liked it much better that way. It was shortly afterwards that I learned (from a youtube comment no-less) that Mitchell was an actual reporter, and I thought that was neat since to include a particularly mysterious case of a person who went to work for 30 years but never wrote again in that way. Mitchell's character was never really unbelievable nor exaggerated, and despite being ostentatiously the 'villain' of the game, his appearance was minor. It was OK!  However, once I got deeper into the following game (this one), I kinda started groaning at the way the characters (being the mouthpiece of Gilbert) were talking so reverentially towards the relationship between Joe Gould and Joseph Mitchell. I mean sure, after Gould died, Mitchell never wrote another article for the rest of his life, but I don't think Gould was any sort of wise man or prophet of New York that this game made him out to be. I was somewhat annoyed going through it, because from my own personal experiences with people on the street who'd tell me anything just so long as they could get a peek at my wallet, it seemed that Gilbert was getting enamored and philosophical all over a charlatan. Of course the deal with Mitchell and his connection to the Countess has to be resolved somehow, so I understood why Gilbert chose to include what he did. cmndstab posted:Gilbert has since expressed some amount of regret and guilt at casting Gould and Mitchell in this kind of limbo situation, saying that there is something perverse about taking real-life people and making a game about them being stuck in a diner for all eternity. I'm glad that Gilbert wised up and tried to resolve some of the same issues that I was finding. It was very telling that Gilbert chose to voice Mitchell himself, but luckily enough for him that he did since it let him easily fix those issues in post. I will lighten up my opinion on Gould a bit, since I do find it interesting that for as much as bum with the ability to speak like a used-car salesman I take him to be, it is pretty interesting to see that he was able to sit down and write something fairly lucid down on paper. Although his opinions on aristocracy and lineages are contrary to mine, I did enjoy what point he was aiming for. The writing skill was indeed much better than what I was expecting; It was organized and clear, instead of being a stream of rambling consciousness (much unlike my posts)! cmndstab posted:
Hah! Gilbert ran into one of the problems about writing stories about New York. That people outside of New York won't really know what you're talking about! I honestly didn't know that the Deacon's story was based off of real life though, because that really is a cool tale to expand on. As for my own speculation on things... Since Gilbert expected us to be familiar with Gould's stories and/or writing, I will present my speculation based on this single phrase from the link that cmndstab provided for us: http://home.pacifier.com/~dkossy/gould.html posted:. . .Remember however that every human soul is as big as its environment and heredity allow it to be. So that's the explanation of why there aren't very much ghosts around even in a very crowded place like New York.  Maybe if their apartments weren't so small, there'd be many more ghosts around. Inversely, it means that a more spacious state such as Texas or Alaska should be full of ghosts.
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Nov 6, 2013 18:38
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WickedHate posted:Man, all this time with that kind of power and I'm surprised Charlie didn't set himself up as the god of a new world, if you catch my drift. Yeah, honestly if he lasted ten years without abusing the power he actually did pretty well. insanityv2 posted:Huh. I'm surprised I was wrong about the Meltzers. I don't know how I feel about it. For all the reaosns in my last post and also, isn't this the first time we've seen a real malevolent villain as opposed to a tragic circumstance? I think Charlie would be our first "deliberately evil" character, yes. Even then, he seems to be evil in more of a sociopath manner rather than evil laughter and red smoke way, which is nice. quote:Only evidence we have otherwise is Lauren's passing comment about Joey going to her brother after she died. Yeah, Joey certainly doesn't seem to think that only girls can be mediums, though I guess it's not like he went through a training course. My theory is that Gilbert just likes female protagonists, he has them in some of his other games too. EagerSleeper posted:
I didn't know Mitchell/Gould/Deacon were based on real-life characters either, until I replayed all of the games with commentary. Fortunately the games play every bit as well without the player knowing. It can be very easy to either handwave off the real-life story (in which case there is no point using real-life characters), or alternatively end up writing the scenes in such a way that they are unsatisfying or boring if you don't know who the characters are based on. Fortunately, I think Gilbert treads that fine line fairly well in Convergence, even if it does seem like a bit of a love letter to Gould. I guess, in the case of Joe Gould, he was a legitimately intelligent man with very impressive academic qualifications, who just went crazy over time. For me, Mitchell's story is far more interesting. His connection with Joe Gould being made out as such a major thing is a more modern idea. Academics studying his story noted that his stories about Gould (a young genius who eventually becomes entirely unproductive) mirrored his own life. I doubt that the average New Yorker would have heard about Mitchell, but with very few exceptions, it makes sense for the people in Convergence to know of him. They're all either snobby New York artists, former colleagues, or were alive when he really was a well-known and active journalist. quote:I'm glad that Gilbert wised up and tried to resolve some of the same issues that I was finding. It was very telling that Gilbert chose to voice Mitchell himself, but luckily enough for him that he did since it let him easily fix those issues in post. I will lighten up my opinion on Gould a bit, since I do find it interesting that for as much as bum with the ability to speak like a used-car salesman I take him to be, it is pretty interesting to see that he was able to sit down and write something fairly lucid down on paper. This is actually a really good point. Gilbert mentions several times in his commentary that certain scene alterations were made difficult because he couldn't get the voice actors to record new lines. Sometimes he combined parts of old lines to make new ones, and in some rare cases he just had a line with no voicing, but mostly he just had to leave the scenes how they were. As I mentioned before, Gould was legitimately a Harvard graduate with extremely high honours, and a professor. He was a nutcase and a conman, but a well-written one.
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Nov 7, 2013 05:59
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It must be terrible to be an author and not be able to write down anyone's name because a psychopath will kill them.
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Nov 7, 2013 09:13
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cmndstab posted:As I mentioned before, Gould was legitimately a Harvard graduate with extremely high honours, and a professor. He was a nutcase and a conman, but a well-written one.
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Nov 7, 2013 09:36
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Glazius posted:It must be terrible to be an author and not be able to write down anyone's name because a psychopath will kill them.
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Nov 7, 2013 10:29
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Kegluneq posted:He could have used false names (or initials if that was more common in this period). I'm not sure trying to find loopholes in cosmic contract kinda deals is an entirely good idea, considering what happens to mediums who don't do their job to begin with. Plus, after you're convinced your writing literally kills people you're probably not willing to try out "hm, maybe this round-about way of writing won't end in murder!" This is not exactly something you experiment on when you already know lives are on the line.
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Nov 7, 2013 12:01
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Cardiovorax posted:That's a bit of an overstatement, he had a bachelor's degree in literature. I don't think he ever taught anywhere either. He definitely graduated with honours, but now that I'm looking into it further, he didn't receive an honourary professorship after all. That'll show me for skimping on the research!  Next update should be along soon!
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Nov 7, 2013 13:25
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a cartoon duck posted:I'm not sure trying to find loopholes in cosmic contract kinda deals is an entirely good idea, considering what happens to mediums who don't do their job to begin with.
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Nov 7, 2013 15:06
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Update 15 Yesterday, Rosa spent quite some time speaking with the echos of Joe Gould and Joseph Mitchell, learning about all that has happened to bring us to this point. Today, we'll see what we can do about destroying the link and putting an end to all of this. A Strange Diner  Mitchell mentioned that he couldn't travel to other rooms in this diner, and there only seems to be one internal door, so perhaps the link is hidden in there. However, Rosa finds the door locked. What shall we do about this?  She returns! Say, can you spare a few dollars for the Joe Gould Fund? I'm afraid I'm a little short. Fair enough. Fair enough.Remember right back at the beginning of the game, when Rosa learned how to pick a lock using a paperclip? Rosa has seen a paperclip very recently. I'd like to see that essay again. Here you go. I don't think he'll miss this.Of course, the second time Rosa tried to use a paperclip, to break into Frank Lyons' apartment, she completely hosed up the locking mechanism and Joey had to zap through the door instead. But we'll just chalk that one up to experience. Here you go. Always glad to share. Third time's the charm...  For a ghost door, it was pretty solid.Sure enough, Rosa has levelled up in burglery and successful breaks and enters the diner's kitchen! What's that noise?The music cuts out here, and we hear the jumbled whispering from Rosa's dreams. It's a safe bet that the link is somewhere in here.  There's a strange glow coming from inside.In a Fate Of Atlantis-inspired moment, Rosa opens up the three ovens, and the third one contains a strange, glowing ball of energy.  Rosa tries talking to the oven.  She comes! She comes! Who are you? Part of a whole. Left behind. Safe here. Leave me.Now that we hear these individual whispered lines here, it is easy to make the aural connection that the jumbled whispering we have heard several times through the game was simply all of these lines played on top of each other. Are you the Countess? Countess. One of my names. Yes. I no longer live, but part of me remains. Leave me.Some remnant of the Countess is in the centre oven of a metaphorical diner inhabited by dead journalists in the infinite void contained inside of Rosa's head. Hey, I'll buy that.  Time to do what we came to do. No! Safe here. Warm here. I stay in warm places. Too cold out there.Rosa tries, but is unable to pick the energy ball up. My hand passes right through it. No. Too cold. I will survive here in safe fire. Leave me.Not sure what else to do, Rosa decides to keep looking around. Well, um, see ya. Hahahaha, Rosa   As if in response to Rosa's comment, Joe Gould pops through the non-unlocked door. I'm sure it made more sense than most people I know.I guess the "echos" can't simply zap through the wall like normal ghosts can, but they can come through open doors. So this is the kitchen. Such a bare and emotionless place. Not even a bottle of ketchup. Does something about that oven look strange to you? Nothing about my life has ever made sense. Why should an oven be any different?Gould actually sounds pretty frustrated here. This game is set in 2007, Gould was born was in 1889. Poor dude has spent over a century going from one confused, troubled existence to another. It's time to finish this and let the poor guy move on.  Not receiving any reassurance about the talking oven from Gould, Rosa goes to speak with Mitchell. Yes? The oven in the kitchen is talking. Is it now? This doesn't surprise you? Miss, look where we are. I stopped being surprised ages ago. Rosa also points out that Gould is gone. She lived up to her promise of getting Gould to leave Mitchell alone. I see. I think you for that. Have you reconsidered giving him a cigarette? I suppose I've been a little hard on the man. Here. I don't smoke anymore. Give him the whole pack.You know, Mitchell should just have done that ages ago. Then Gould couldn't have asked him for it anymore.  Ah! A nice contribution to the Joe Gould Fund! Gould lights up and enters flavour country! Liking your cigarette? It's delightful! Here, feel free to join me. Er, thanks but I don't smoke. You might as well keep it. When a man is rich, he can afford to be generous.Thanks, I guess. Now we have a ghost cigarette.  If I was a smoker, I'd be in heaven.Somewhere in the next world, Lauren is shaking her fist right now  So this puzzle is a bit silly, but for reasons unexplained, the Countess' essence can only survive in hot places. It's not willing to leave the oven because the kitchen is cold, but what about if we have a lit cigarette?  Warmth! Safety! The flame will carry me. Thank you!You know, call me crazy, but I would have thought a cigarette would be the last thing the Countess would want to see, especially when wielded by a Blackwell medium  The Countess' spirit goes into the ghost cigarette, and almost immediately the diner begins to rumble and shake.  The echo of Joe Gould fades away, bringing him peace at last. It looks like Rosa has done her job.  I'm breaking the link. It'll all be over soon. Over. Yes.As is customary for the Blackwell games, our departing ghost leaves us with some final thoughts. I can't say I ever understood any of this, but I do know one thing. Gould was right. We are connected. Every single person on the planet. It's a pattern so complex that we can't begin to understand it. So don't try to understand it. Gould tried, and he lived a miserable life. Just live, and be happy in living. Anyhow, you'd best get gone. You've got a job to finish. Mitchell fades away, and the diner floor soon follows.  Rosa takes a second to reflect on all she's seen, before heading outside the diner door.  That's good, right? Once this place is gone, the link is gone too? The killing will stop?Madeline's response is somewhat surprising. This means something to you. The killing. She killed someone right in front of me. I want to stop that from happening again. Your predecessor was not graced with such compassion. Predecessor...? Do you mean Lauren? My Auntie Lauren?Wait... Madeline knew Lauren? How did she know Lauren? Joey certainly didn't know about Madeline. We should not stay here. This place will soon cease to be. Come.Of course, being a spirit guide, Madeline refuses to actually provide us with potentially important information   Placing her hand on Rosa's shoulder, Madeline teleports the two of them away, as the diner flashes out of existence. The link is gone, and the Countess is no longer bound to Charlie Meltzer. In The Wrong Place  I'm free! Way to go, Red.With the link severed, the Countess suddenly finds the Universe is no longer contained within her head. My head... I understand everything! Everything? I... hurt people. Yes. That was you. But look, whatever happened? It's done. You can't do anything about it now. It's time for you to move on.Joey does his best to comfort the Countess...  ...but she isn't having a bar of it. He will not kill again!Suddenly realising what has happened, the Countess is furious.  Oh, poo poo. Despite having the link broken, the Countess still seems to be sticking around as a ghost with incredible power. She turns back into a ball of energy and crosses the threshold back to reality, with Joey powerless to stop her. Moments later, Rosa and Madeline reappear. It's about time you got back here. What did you guys do? I did it, Joey. I broke the bond!Joey is quick to rain on Rosa's parade, however. Yeah you broke it all right. And our friend just blew. She did not enter the white light? No! Clearly, Madeline was not anticipating this outcome. I guess she thought the Countess would be all too keen to put an end to her tortured existence and head on into the white light. She has free will. And is loose in the world. With the power she has... who knows what damage she can cause? Great. Just great. I don't know who you are, lady, and I don't care. But just leave the spook work to us, okay?Madeline snaps back angrily: I have little choice in the matter. I am bound to this plane. What happens next is up to you. Wait! But it is too late. Madeline is gone, not that Joey minds one bit. Let's get out of here.Well, gently caress. We've severed the link, but now a killer ghost is loose in New York. Madeline still seems to be sticking around, too. There is still more work to be done before Convergence finishes. Join me tomorrow for the dramatic conclusion! cmndstab fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2013 16:11
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cmndstab posted:
Whelp Charlies gonna get his.
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Nov 7, 2013 17:45
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Maybe she'll just penance stare him or something. I wouldn't rule killing him out, but if I had just been used as a murder weapon I'd be pretty tired of killing. Aw, who am I kidding, I'd choke the bastard and throw him off a fire escape too.
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Nov 7, 2013 17:50
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Whups. Then again, if you'd been deliberately used as a murder-ghost for at least a year, and probably over 10 years, wouldn't you be a little pissed? I've got to admit, my main problem with the diner was that, with all the talking, it wore out its welcome a little. Although I do like how Gilbert wrapped up the whole Mitchell-Gould thing. Also... A diner? Well, that's also basically an american/NY symbol, really, so it kinda fits!
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Nov 7, 2013 17:58
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I see absolutely no problem with this plan. I mean, what are the odds that after she ghost murders Charles, she doesn't just leave in peace like a rational spirit? I say we just leave her.
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Nov 7, 2013 21:42
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insanityv2 posted:Whelp Charlies gonna get his. WickedHate posted:Maybe she'll just penance stare him or something. I wouldn't rule killing him out, but if I had just been used as a murder weapon I'd be pretty tired of killing. Maybe she's just going to give him a stern talking to??? The Muffinlord posted:I see absolutely no problem with this plan. I mean, what are the odds that after she ghost murders Charles, she doesn't just leave in peace like a rational spirit?  Listen, Countess. Red will just go to sleep with my tie in her hand. Whenever you're finished with Charlie, just fly into it and we'll do the rest.JamieTheD posted:I've got to admit, my main problem with the diner was that, with all the talking, it wore out its welcome a little. Although I do like how Gilbert wrapped up the whole Mitchell-Gould thing. Also... A diner? Well, that's also basically an american/NY symbol, really, so it kinda fits! Yeah, I'm less concerned with the metaphorical diner than I am about the essence of the Countess living in an oven. That seems like a total non-sequitur. I've spent a long time trying to figure out some reason why that makes any kind of metaphorical sense and I can't come up with anything. I don't think Gilbert mentions anything in commentary, either.
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Nov 8, 2013 01:23
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First when I saw the oven, I thought the story was going to twist into some weird sort of pregnancy territory. But it just wound up disappointing and confusing. Great LP.
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Nov 8, 2013 07:27
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Update 16 Last update, Rosa severed the link between the Countess and the next world. However, instead of moving on, the Countess shot off seeking revenge for her years of being abused in such a cruel way. We rejoin Rosa and Joey as they emerge from Nodespace and try to figure out how to stop the Countess.  Crossing back to reality, Rosa emerges with a throbbing headache. No music plays during Rosa's apartment this time around. This is a serious situation. Careful, kid. You've never been under for that long. At least I'm alive. Yeah, everything's peachy. There's a killer ghost on the loose, and it's our fault.Joey is taking this fairly personally. But we broke the link! She doesn't have to kill anymore. You wanna tell her that? Who would she want to kill, anyway? That would be my assumption too. Rosa, of course, is immediately stricken with mixed emotions. Oh. Him. The guy who wants me dead. Yeah. Ironic as all get out. We'll sort it out later. Let's get going.By this stage, Rosa is understandably frustrated about the whole situation. I can't believe we have to save Charles Meltzer. The guy tried to kill me! We're not so much saving him as stopping her. Let's get a move on. Funnily enough, despite Gould's cigarette being merely an echo, it seems to have survived that diner vanishing. The light got absorbed by this cigarette.I guess part of the Countess' essence is still here and the cigarette is just a vessel.  Rosa quickly catches up with Joey. She did, huh? How'd she know her? She didn't say. Why didn't you ask her? You drove her away before I could. Priorities, kid. Killer ghost on the loose. Let's get a move on.Haha, I like how Joey quickly changes the subject.  All this ghost activity must have shorted out something.Rosa's electrical equipment has all shat itself. This is turning into an expensive case.  It's about time. Let's scram.Let's do this.  Only one destination left to visit. Prelude to Tragedy  Rosa and Joey arrive to find the Meltzer's office in disarray.  We're too late. You! You stay back!Paul is still here, looking shocked and horrified, but Charlie is gone.  Charles... h-he... Something took him! I've never seen anything like it.Oh geez. The Countess literally floated in here and grabbed Charlie, probably by the throat, and flew off with him. Right in front of Paul too, that's not loving good. What happened? The... the roof! She took him to the roof. Let's go. There was a stairway down the hall. As Rosa hurries out of the office, Paul mournfully calls out to her. ... Yes. I'm sorry. I didn't know. I swear. I didn't know.Rosa pauses for a moment, before heading out of the office without a word. There's nothing left to say.  On the roof, the Countess has Charlie in her vice-like chokehold.  Please! I am not a killer! I... I had no idea you were real! I am as real as death. I thought it was just wishful thinking! And just what are you wishing for now, false guide?It's not clear whether Charlie is simply lying here, or if he really just figured that it was "wishful thinking" that writing these names down would help him out. It's entirely possible that he just felt he had a rather macabre version of the Midas touch. With this ambiguity, it's difficult to know whether Charlie is really evil, or not. After all, he only wrote down four names that we know of. Really, if it wasn't for him listing Rosa, I'd be inclined to believe him. He could easily have started an email about Frank, had Frank die, and suddenly the movie be a success. Somehow he cottons on and writes down John's name, and then Claude. At this point, he could very easily have said "poo poo, this isn't a coincidence anymore... maybe I need to stop doing this?" like Mitchell did. But then writing Rosa's name down? That's just low. Even if he was just scared that Rosa might go to the police, writing her name in his inbox makes it very clear that he is a man of very low moral fibre.  Rosa and Joey arrive on the scene. Don't interfere! For over fifty years I have been a slave to false guides. But none have been more corrupt and pitiful than this one.She is seriously pissed off here, and I can't even blame her. Haven't you killed enough? I was just the tool! This man is the hand that wielded it! He used it against you! You want to spare his life? I have killed countless innocents and my hands are stained with their blood. If I must kill, let it be one who deserves it! False guide, it is time to reap what you sowed. No. Please! Ghost Struggle  There she is, doing what she does best. He doesn't have much time left.Joey and Rosa try to reason with the Countess. Just come with us. Your time is over. You've gotta know that. I know more than you can imagine. Please, you don't want to do this! I know you didn't want to kill before, and I don't think you want to kill now. You're innocent. Don't you want to stay that way? You are wrong. I lost my innocence long ago. It was stolen. Ripped from me. I will never get it back. You better be worth it.Rosa bitterly regards Charlie. All too soon, however...  The Countess snaps Charlie's neck, and deposits him on the ground like a piece of garbage. The Countess has claimed another victim. Have no sympathy for this man! His spirit has moved on. It is less than he deserves.I guess Charlie didn't need to stick around, because the Countess is right. No ghost emerges from his corpse. The music quietens down for now, with the moment seemingly having passed. We can do this an alternative way - by showing the ghost cigarette to the Countess.  I think I found something of yours.What... what is that? It's a part of you, isn't it? The Countess quickly deposits Charlie, barely alive, on the roof. It was torn from me so long ago. Here. Take it. I am not the same person I once was. Hey, we've all changed. And sometimes we just have to accept it. Whether we save Charlie or not, Joey now approaches the Countess. Now, why don't you take a hold of this and we can finish it.However, the Countess turns to face Joey, and her eyes flash with rage. You! You are the most guilty of all! What? What? Oh geez, what did you do, Joey?  The music immediately kicks back into full gear. Hey. Get off! What are you talking about? My death. That was self-defence! You must be held accountable.gently caress. We do NOT need this.  In a fit of spiritual strength, the Countess literally tears off Joey's tie and throws it onto the ground. He has been separated from his own link to the next world for the first time.  Joey and the Countess engage in some spiritual boxing, but it is clear that Joey is outmatched in terms of sheer power.  Joey can attempt to throw jabs, but the Countess is too wily for him. He's not going to beat her in a straightforward fight.  Eyeing Rosa for inspiration, Joey steels himself for the battle ahead.  Switching over to Rosa, she looks around desperately for some way to help turn the tide. Just stay back! Come nowhere near her! She's really tearing into him. He looks like he's fighting for his life. Sort of. I can't touch her. She's a ghost! Think, Rosangela. Think! There's got to be something you can do.If Rosa tries to approach the fight, Joey yells at her to get out of the way. Just stay back. I'm handling this.You're really not, Joey  With no real plans in mind, Rosa scoops up the tie.  It's not glowing anymore. I guess whatever was inside has died.If you failed to save Charlie, this is an indication that whatever morality the Countess had is gone. She is now driven solely by the fury of having spent half a decade as a murder weapon.  Rosa can't touch the Countess, but she can touch the tie, and presumably the Countess can touch the tie as well. Perhaps Rosa can use it to interfere with the Countess in some way? Periodically, the Countess will wind up for a big punch (with the purple-pink effect). When she does, Rosa can attempt to lasoo her hand with the tie.  Success! Joey, it's... not... working! Course it's not! She's too strong for you. What do you think you're doing?! Trying... to... save... your... butt.If we don't do anything for a few second, the Countess fights out of the grip of the tie and resumes her punchup with Joey.  However, by switching back to Joey, we can have him take a swing at the Countess while she's distracted. The combined power is enough, and the Countess is overcome. However, this means she goes straight into Nodespace with Rosa.  Wake up, Red. drat it, wake up.Joey is mortified at what has just happened, with genuine fear in his voice here. In The Wrong Place  The light. I remember. Just head towards it.As seems to commonly be the case, when the Countess' ghost enters Rosa's Nodespace, the potency of her emotions seems greatly diminished. I went through once. And I was dragged back. It hurt. It hurt so much. The link brought you back, but it's gone now. You understand? You're free. You don't have to hurt anyone anymore.I wonder if this is how the Countess corrupted her link? This poor woman has gone through some ghastly experiences in her existence  But here, everything is so clear. That man. Meltzer. He lives?If we failed to save Charlie, Rosa sadly responds. No. You killed him.She obviously isn't even aware of her actions in the real world. Perhaps that is justice. He will not kill again. I made sure of that.If we did managed to save Charlie, however, Rosa tells her: Yes. We stopped you before you could kill him. Is that justice? I wonder. He is a murderer. He will find ways to kill again.Either way, the Countess has finally reached a stage where she can let go of it all. But you are right. It is no longer my concern. What do you mean? Live your life. Help the lost spirits of the world. Let nothing deter you. This work is more important than you will ever know. With those parting words, the tortured existence of the Countess blessedly comes, at last, to a close.  Rosa reflects only for a moment, before heading back to reality. It's worth mentioning here that Gilbert's original plan for this scene was for the Countess to have completely lost her mind, and for her to grab ahold of Rosa while in Nodespace, fly through the portal back to reality, and careen off into the Manhattan skyline while Joey tried desperately to save her. It would end up with the Countess and Rosa landing in Central Park in front of a crowd of people, where Rosa and Joey would defeat her in a battle and force her back into Nodespace. Fortunately, Gilbert realised that this was a terrible ending, not to mention one that would be difficult to handwave away in the next game since everyone would have seen Rosa literally fighting a demonic ghost. So he went instead with the much more logical step of having the Countess seek revenge on Charlie Meltzer. One thing I'll say for Gilbert - at least he knows how to edit out his bad ideas Prelude to Tragedy  Back on the Meltzer's roof, Joey is still very concerned.  With no way to influence the situation, Joey floats around frantically. Wake up, Red. drat it, wake up.Joey's frustration starts to give way to legitimate fear. I'm not spending twenty years over another hospital bed. I'm not. His fear then turns into genuine anger I have absolutely no difficulty believing him here, either. Joey is absolutely incensed. I guess he bears a lot of scars from the 25 years he spent hovering over Lauren's bed in Bellevue  Fortunately, before he can take any action, Rosa starts to stir, and Joey's anger immediately dissipates. Thank god. You okay? Gone? You sure? Yeah. She went through the light. She's gone. Good. Then I just got one question for you.With the danger having passed, Joey is able to let loose his pent-up emotions. What the hell were you thinking! I thought you were... Rosa, of course, has some pent-up emotions of her own after this whole affair, and snaps back at Joey in kind. Yeah. Stupid. I only saved your life. I don't have a life to save! You only risked your own.I'm... not sure that argument is very rational. It's not like Rosa could have left the scene, and clearly neither of them were not going to defeat the Countess individually. But this scene shows a darker side of Joey. He cares for Rosa, but selfishly (though understandably), he is even more concerned about his own existence becoming intolerable. Joey, I'm soaking wet. And I'm sharing a roof with a corpse. If I'm getting a lecture, I'll listen to it at home. Leaving Charlie's corpse on the roof, Rosa marches back down the stairwell while Joey complains behind her. This night has taken its toll on all involved. If Charlie was saved, Rosa comments that Charlie needs an ambulance, rather than being a corpse, but either way she leaves him there and heads home. Rosa's Theme  It's the only way.In an epilogue scene of sorts, we rejoin Rosa and Joey back in their apartment. By this point, their argument has changed topics. Why change was isn't broken? But it IS. We can't keep blundering around like we have. We stopped a killer ghost today. I wouldn't call that blundering. It was pure luck. We just happened to run into her while doing something else. So? As has been hinted at several times in this game, Rosa is unhappy with the Lauren model of looking for cases via clues and hearsay. People should seek US out. Not the other way around. What do you want to do? Put up a billboard in Times Square?Rosa does have a plan, however, and it's one that Lauren could never have taken advantage of. No. We've got a special place nowadays. A place where you can talk about all sorts of crazy things and it's accepted as normal. What's that? Hahaha, wow What, that computer box? No way. Look, I've trusted you so far, right? Yeah, I guess. Then trust me. Just this once.Joey isn't so hot on the idea, but he begrudgingly agrees, or at least, he doesn't disagree. *sigh* If we end up in a padded room, I'm going to make your life a living hell. You know that. I hope your advertising page still has Griff, the P.I. Bear, as it's background, Rosa See Into Forever  And that's the game! Much like in Unbound, we are treated to an actual song, complete with lyrics, as the credit scene plays. This song is not a creation of Thomas Regin, but rather the outcome of an arrangement made with Union State Records to include a song in a game. The song is performed by Sammy Allen, and features modestly successful Los Angeles alternative rock band (they describe themselves as "Space Rock", I'm not even kidding) Hypnoqaja.  One final scene after the credits, as Madeline finds herself still just floating in the infinite void, much to her displeasure. How long have I been here, trapped between worlds? The others could not help me. Perhaps this new one will? She is just beginning to come into her power. I just hope she is strong enough when the time comes. With that cryptic final message, Madeline goes... somewhere, and Convergence ends. That's all folks!  Of course, Convergence comes with a bunch of special features, most of which are mildly amusing or interesting, though I've picked a couple here. Josie was an interesting character, but apparently she was originally much more "interesting". It's probably a good thing they toned her down a bit.  Finally, here's the original concept art for Joey Mallone (not Malone as this picture states). He looks a bit more like a conman here.  Finally, here is a little montage of reference photos Gilbert took for the came, as well as some stock photos of Gould and Mitchell. The artist did a pretty good job of capturing the scenes, I think. So, that's Convergence! What did you think? I have so mixed feelings about Convergence. It has some absolutely brilliant moments - the Countess' return after Frank moves on, Rosa's name getting added to the email list, the Countess descending on Charlie. Rosa and Joey themselves have a much more interesting dynamic than in Legacy. I love the tie-ins to real world characters, and pretty much every character is believable and feels distinct. The writing is top-notch, as we've come to expect form Gilbert. There are some issues with the game, though. A lot of things are left up to interpretation, or not even addressed at all. It's one thing to leave plot points for the later games to address, but there are plenty of small holes in the exposition that it's safe to assume will never be revisited. I would have loved to be given some information as to how the Countess moved the link to Gould, or some idea as to the mechanism involved. Charlie having spent ten years with the power before writing someone's name down seems unlikely, but it's never addressed. Why is the Countess' essence in an oven? It makes no sense. In the end, I think the game is good for what it is, which is a fun romp through several days of awesome moments and Rosa and Joey being amusing. Convergence is probably a victim of its own strengths - the setting and writing is so interesting and mysterious that we want to learn about everything that has happened, and it feels like a letdown when that doesn't happen. I don't mind the emergence of Charlie Meltzer as the first truly "evil" character in the series. Even there, he's not a bonafide big nasty evil character, he's just a bit of a shut-in creep who isn't above offing someone from a distance to get ahead in life. It's clear that supernatural powers of several kinds exist in the Blackwell universe, and as we all know, wherever power exists, someone will seek to abuse it. I much prefer that "evil" dynamic, rather than the alternative concept of an evil entity from the next plane of existence wreaking havoc. As it is, Convergence gives a sense that our universe simply has some serious flaws in the way its constructed, and those flaws are ripe for exploitation. In terms of the other aspects of the game, I think Convergence is definitely a success. The art is really quite beautiful, and the portraits are very effective. The music, while not reaching the same emotional highs as in Unbound, is consistently of high standard with no real low-points to speak of. It's extremely easy to listen to and several scenes are choreographed to the music, which is extremely effective. The removal of the notebook mechanic doesn't really detract from Convergence, though it does mean that every puzzle involves either a simple pixel hunt, or running through dialogue trees. Fortunately, the dialogue is so good that this never feels like a chore. A couple of the puzzles are stupid, but hey, it wouldn't be an Adventure Game without a few stupid puzzles! Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that Convergence felt like the final game in a trilogy, while Deception feels like the start of a new trilogy (though as we now know, the fifth game in the series will be the last). That feeling is justified, because most of the events from Legacy and Unbound have been wrapped up in Convergence. The Deacon, The Countess, Joe Gould, Joseph Mitchell, all those stories have reached their conclusions. Rosa and Joey have both developed as characters, we've fleshed out Lauren a bit, and we are now poised to move onto something different in The Blackwell Deception. I hope you're all as excited to see the fourth game as I am! Tomorrow we'll get started straight away on Deception, so get your discussion about Convergence in now! We're about to change gears real soon. cmndstab fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2013 13:12
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That was fantastic! Though, as you pointed out, it definitely has some weird plot issues. I particularly am irritated by just how little is explained about the whole diner thing, and how the Countess broke the link. On that though, I think it's kind of sad she spent all that time helping people only to turn into an insane killer/murder weapon. I hate to be the one constantly making Shivah references, but that game also ended with a punch out with an elderly person. I'm thinking Gilbert has a phobia, or perhaps an irrational hatred towards the old.
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Nov 8, 2013 13:29
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You can't save Charlie, the way you could save the Deacon? Not surprised the Countess went after Joey, though. That's, like, your primal ghost revenge motivation.
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Nov 8, 2013 13:58
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I think Convergence is probably the best of the bunch. The next game is my least favourite in the series, both plot- and gameplay-wise. It takes all the bad things that Convergence discarded, adds them back in and somehow makes them even worse. I really didn't like it at all. We'll see why soon enough.
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Nov 8, 2013 14:42
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Glazius posted:You can't save Charlie, the way you could save the Deacon? It is possible. If you show the cigarette to the Countess before she kills him, she pauses and drops him. Utritum fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Nov 8, 2013 |
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Nov 8, 2013 15:28
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quote:
Another thing that isn't made clear: could Paul actually see the Countess, or did it look like Charles suddenly started to hover in the air, pulled up by an unseen force?
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Nov 8, 2013 15:34
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He asked if Charlie really murdered people, so presumably either he or Charlie could see or respond to her. The original plan being for people to see the fight supports that the Countess is a special case. Perhaps her power overrides the normal rules.
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Nov 8, 2013 15:38
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Utritum posted:It is possible. If you show the cigarette to the Countess before she kills him, she pauses and drops him. Wait what? Like an alternate ending?
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Nov 8, 2013 16:48
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Nah, not really. It just alters some dialogue.
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Nov 8, 2013 17:04
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You should have used the cigar, cause that would have helped fixed the countress, which is one of the things we were supposed to do.
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Nov 8, 2013 17:45
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grandalt posted:You should have used the cigar, cause that would have helped fixed the countress, which is one of the things we were supposed to do. So you fix her by poking her with a lit cigarette? I'm not sure which smiley I should use here.
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Nov 8, 2013 18:20
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I think you just end up giving her the chunk of herself that she's been missing. I have no idea how you managed to bring back a ghost cigarette from Spook Dimension, but there you go. As those things go, it isn't much of an improvement over the ending we saw.
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Nov 8, 2013 18:24
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