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FractalSandwich posted:Mate, if you think us Aussies will just stand around and let a bunch of demons take our jobs, you better think again.
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Jul 4, 2016 19:46
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Magic Knights are far and away my favorite class (followed by Armor Knight, actually) and they only got better in 5. Also, kind of late to the party, but Etna's overload is awesome in its own special way.
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Jul 5, 2016 05:26
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Weeble posted:Magic Knights are far and away my favorite class (followed by Armor Knight, actually) and they only got better in 5. Yeah Disgaea 5's mechanics are very favorable to Magic Knights. And Element Force continues to be one of the best Evilities to get onto casters who aren't Magic Knights. I'll probably talk about Ninja and Ronin next time around. It's kind of funny because for a while Ronin were replaced by male Samurai and for whatever reason NIS made the class kinda poo poo until the proper Ronin returned. While there is something to be said for the iconic original design I almost wish the Makai Kingdom Lady Samurai design had continued because that was a pretty cool one.
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Jul 5, 2016 06:26
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I like my Magic Knights, but, just how is Element Force that good? There are a lot of enemies later on that have only positive resistances to elements, and end-postgame bosses like Baal have crazy high elemental resistances, and after Disgaea 2, getting the Element Force effect sacrifices the evility/ability slot that made Magic Knights OP in 2. I can see it being good in the early and mid-game, but most of the time spent in Disgaea is the post-game.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:32
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Nameless Fool posted:I like my Magic Knights, but, just how is Element Force that good? There are a lot of enemies later on that have only positive resistances to elements, and end-postgame bosses like Baal have crazy high elemental resistances, and after Disgaea 2, getting the Element Force effect sacrifices the evility/ability slot that made Magic Knights OP in 2. I can see it being good in the early and mid-game, but most of the time spent in Disgaea is the post-game. I think you are confusing Element Force and Attack Weakness. Element Force is the Evility that Magic Knights have always had, and it is the best one of the three. Attack Weakness is the one that lets them effectively count the full Element Force bonus when attacking a weakness and I noted that it is in fact strictly inferior to Element Force. Element Force only stops being 'good' if you're up against an enemy that is heavily resistant to all three elements and in practice by the time you reach that my advice that's mostly intended for the main game will obviously be out of date. If you are arguing that Element Force and thus Magic Knights are not in fact good at the very top end this is a separate issue from what I was discussing in that summary. There are lots of things that eventually fall off in effectiveness during the postgame or get replaced with things like bonus/DLC characters but that's its own issue. I'd actually agree that magic in general is really niche as far as being a reliable source of damage but it's also by a long margin the easiest way for a character to get a 3x3 attack to grind through 9999 reincarnations. EDIT: To add to this a bit further, be clear that I'm always talking about a class's basic kit. Yes of course a Magic Knight with Witch Power and Most Badass Overlord is far more ideal than Element Force + either of those but it's not really helpful for me to say 'this evility is not Most Badass Overlord and therfore is hot garbage'. Feinne fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 20:17
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Feinne posted:Most Badass Overlord There's a Zetta dlc? Although I hope either this or D5 (or both) will come to the Vita, since the vita versions usually include all the dlcs.
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Jul 6, 2016 07:03
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Omobono posted:There's a Zetta dlc? Yeah Zetta's DLC in both this and 5, and he's basically the strongest character in both. In this his Evility is +% Attack Power based on how many total accumulated levels the character has (up to 200%!!!), and there is vile and extremely time consuming sorcery that can in fact get this onto other characters. One good candidate is Metallia, since her Evility is +100% damage when hitting only one target with a spell. This combo is in fact more gross than using Element Force in place of Witch Power because it works on Star as well. It is of course technically possible to pull double time consuming bullshit and get both onto any arbitrary chassis but there aren't in fact many better candidates than Metallia herself tbqh.
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Jul 6, 2016 07:49
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Halfway through the thread, but I went and got Disgaea 5. Any advice? Specifically: - How important are starting stats? 5 points in a skilled character don't seems so important when there are 9.999 levels of growth. - DLC any good if I haven't played any other game in the franchise/other Nippon Ichi games except Disgaea 1 and Odin Sphere? - Any useful monster I should keep in mind? I've only played D.1, and monsters were kinda meh. - Killia wielding a sword looks silly. Does he work with fist weapons?
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Jul 6, 2016 13:13
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Fat Samurai posted:Halfway through the thread, but I went and got Disgaea 5. Any advice? Specifically: 1. Base stats are actually pretty important, because they determine your stat growth per level. That said, the impact of bonus points from spending more mana is a bit negligible as long as you're not making Good For Nothings (which you shouldn't ever really need to do). By the time you are getting to levels where it's meaningful you're able to use reincarnation to stack up tons of free bonus points. 2. So the original Disgaea DLC is a good deal (both Flonne and Sicily are solid pickups and Laharl and Etna are at least usable), The Makai Kingdom one is amazing since all three characters are good, and the standalone Metallia one is super solid since you get her immediately and she's like the second best DLC character. The others do all include good and useful characters but you can assess your desire to get them at gametime I'd say. One cool thing about the DLC, it's not locked to the postgame. It actually scales to whatever chapter you're in, so you can in principle get the DLC characters whenever. 3. The monster casters are all still really good and have cool designs, Succubi, Sea Angels, and the new Foxes all can be useful and the last just has a really cool design as well. One of your story characters is of course also a monster and shouldn't be neglected because she's actually really powerful. 4. Killia is in fact best with fists, definitely give him them. Remember that if you want to be able to use some sword skills you can totally equip one as well and swap back and forth in combat. Might have an update later, I've got the videos together. They both have a slight glitch from the recording crashing but I'm over trying to re-record whole fights to avoid that.
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Jul 6, 2016 14:37
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Fat Samurai posted:Halfway through the thread, but I went and got Disgaea 5. Any advice? Specifically:
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Jul 6, 2016 14:49
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Scalding Coffee posted:Odin Sphere is not a NIS game. More in my favour!
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Jul 6, 2016 15:31
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To be fair it was distributed through Rosenqueen's back when ATLUS and NISA were partnered.
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Jul 6, 2016 17:45
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Missed opportunity if you ask me. I mean Nisa from Hyperdimension Neptunia got in, so why can't Oswald or Cornelius get in?
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Jul 6, 2016 19:48
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Junpei posted:Missed opportunity if you ask me. To be fair the original Hyperdimension Neptunia (and mk2) was in fact a game that NIS was involved in making which is why Nisa is even a 'thing' in those games, and equally why she's NOT in the remakes that were made by IF alone. That said I'd  to death at Disgaea 5 Gwendolyn.Something dumb happened while videos were processing but I fixed the fuckup and things are still likely on for tonight.
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Jul 6, 2016 20:51
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I dunno, Oswald's Shadow form would make a good Overload... Luciferic Spiral? I got nothing.
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Jul 6, 2016 21:20
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Feinne posted:2. So the original Disgaea DLC is a good deal (both Flonne and Sicily are solid pickups and Laharl and Etna are at least usable), The Makai Kingdom one is amazing since all three characters are good, and the standalone Metallia one is super solid since you get her immediately and she's like the second best DLC character. The others do all include good and useful characters but you can assess your desire to get them at gametime I'd say. One cool thing about the DLC, it's not locked to the postgame. It actually scales to whatever chapter you're in, so you can in principle get the DLC characters whenever. As a side note, the DLC apparently works best when done around stage 6, since that's what each character's starting equipment is geared for...or so I've heard. After that, you would need to use the Item World to keep their unique items up to par with the equipment you should be getting at that point. Also, you can really shoot yourself in the foot using too many DLC characters too soon, since their equipment alone is enough to cause a massacre. Feinne posted:4. Killia is in fact best with fists, definitely give him them. Remember that if you want to be able to use some sword skills you can totally equip one as well and swap back and forth in combat. Wait, really? I've been having him use swords practically exclusively, since everyone and their grandparents seem to use either fists or guns. Does he have some Evility that makes him stronger with fists or something?
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Jul 6, 2016 21:24
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thetruegentleman posted:As a side note, the DLC apparently works best when done around stage 6, since that's what each character's starting equipment is geared for...or so I've heard. After that, you would need to use the Item World to keep their unique items up to par with the equipment you should be getting at that point. Also, you can really shoot yourself in the foot using too many DLC characters too soon, since their equipment alone is enough to cause a massacre. Why bother trying to keep equipment up to date when you can change the sprite of any weapon you have to any other sprite of that weapon type?
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Jul 6, 2016 21:57
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megamariox posted:Why bother trying to keep equipment up to date when you can change the sprite of any weapon you have to any other sprite of that weapon type? You do realize that that doesn't change the stats of the weapon, right?
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Jul 6, 2016 22:02
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Junpei posted:You do realize that that doesn't change the stats of the weapon, right? Yes I realize that but why bother when you can change the sprite of a weapon with better stats to the sprite that you like.
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Jul 6, 2016 22:05
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thetruegentleman posted:As a side note, the DLC apparently works best when done around stage 6, since that's what each character's starting equipment is geared for...or so I've heard. After that, you would need to use the Item World to keep their unique items up to par with the equipment you should be getting at that point. Also, you can really shoot yourself in the foot using too many DLC characters too soon, since their equipment alone is enough to cause a massacre. A massacre is only a problem if that's not what you want. Well it's really just Killia's backstory is that he's a fist fighter, which is why his animations are designed around that. Anyway getting started on the update, but my internet can be a bit spotty so not sure when it'll be done.
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Jul 6, 2016 23:17
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Okay Feinne, what is your favorite Overload name? Mine has to be Atrocious Prince.
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Jul 7, 2016 00:00
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Junpei posted:Okay Feinne, what is your favorite Overload name? I'm partial to Brigante Eclipse I think. Still working on the update, should still be on for late tonight.
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Jul 7, 2016 02:22
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Eighteen: Flowery Path Let’s start out to deal with these idiot demons going to start poo poo with Celestia. Video- “Sinful Road”  Watch   Strange?Well…there was an announcement about a new Archangel a while back…  A new Archangel? What is that person like? Sorry… I don’t know. She’s useless… Etna, don’t say that! Those are...! Wow, the flowers made it all the way up here!This is pretty bad, isn’t it? It’s only a matter of time before the Netherworld turns into Celestia. Dammit…! I didn’t realize how bad it’s gotten.There’s no time to waste! We need to go to Celestia right now! And here are said idiot demons.   I’ll show this angel what I’m gonna do to Celestia! Looks like those demons are ready to invade Celestia.I don’t really wanna deal with them… We should just hand her over. Wh-What!? She is my vassal. I can’t just hand her over for free. You’re protecting an angel? In that case, you’re all going down with her! Hmph… You think you cliché-spouting weaklings can take on me, the Overlord!?Don’t make me laugh! I’ll take you down with a single breath! This is a sneaky and rude map, and most of the action actually happens here at the start where some rude Geo Effects cause issues.  So we’ve got a large blue area that causes Silence, a red No Entry barrier, and four Ghosts on yellow benefitting from Reverse Damage. Reverse Damage, of course, causes damage to heal and healing to damage targets that are on it. It probably seems like we need to deal with the Silence or No Entry to deal with the Ghosts, but there’s actually a totally clear area around the Base Panel we can cast from to take the Ghosts out. These Ghosts are of the flavor that does SP damage as well when they do damage, and we’re about to get to why that’s important.  The Reapers in the second half are monster casters whose Evilities are based around causing Deathblows under certain conditions. The first wave we fight Deathblow if they hit a target at below 25% health, and the second wave do the same but for SP. So yeah, be really careful about any characters who got their SP reduced by the Ghosts early on. The Silence area is kinda lovely to be in so you probably want to throw some of your more solid characters up out of it to smoke the first few Reapers. If you’re having trouble with their damage output they mostly rely on Wind magic. Let’s move on. Video- “Ghostly Daydream”  Watch This is a bit of an interesting situation, we’re up against a bunch of Archers and Thieves here. The Archers all start on a red panel, while the Thieves don’t. We also have a green panel near the Base Panel that will Warp one person back to where the Geo Effects actually come from. In spite of what it looks like you can actually get up that ledge to the main meat of the map. Let’s look at WHY we want to clear the Effects.  Yeah, you don’t want to deal with Archers with that bullshit. So good news, the Thieves are actually super aggressive and you can just let them come to you before dealing with any Archers at all. Bad news, once you clear the effects buffing the Archers they’ll also decide to start moving. You probably want your strongest character like Laharl to deal with the Geo Effects, because that person will get a TON of attention from the Archers on the other side. That, or you could just Warp back. If you watch the video you’ll get a good example of how hilarious the infinite range Protect Evility on the Armor Knight can be. Next Time on Disgaea D2: Stairway to Heaven. We keep pushing towards Celestia and probably run into some more bullshit.
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Jul 7, 2016 03:45
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Feinne posted:I'm partial to Brigante Eclipse I think.
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Jul 7, 2016 05:07
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FractalSandwich posted:There'll be a lot for me to say about Overloads once you get around to a Disgaea 5 LP. Their Japanese names follow a much clearer pattern and a couple of them are amazing puns. Yeah, I don't get some of them. A few use evil creatures names (Mao's Astaroth Reform, Val's Tepes Nightmare, Desco's Channel Azi Dahhaka) while some are just normal words (Zero's Superluminal Wolf, RM's Super Universe, Laharl's Atrocious Prince). Are either of those a pattern?
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Jul 7, 2016 06:14
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There's no thematic pattern, but there's a very clear one in how they're phrased. In fact it's so clear that if I list a few of them here you can probably see there's something going on even if you can't read Japanese: 魔眼のバロール 千里眼のリチェルカ 氷刻のアルマ 凶蝕のブリガンテ (etc.) They're all called "(x) no (y)", where x is always a Japanese noun and y is always a non-Japanese noun. Some are mythological references. Between the others there's at the very least English, Italian, Latin and Sanskrit words. FractalSandwich fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 06:42
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Okay, are the English names accurate translations content-wise? Like is Laharl's use a word that means terrible and one that means Prince, and so on?
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Jul 7, 2016 06:53
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I don't have a list of all the English names in front of me, but from what I remember they're all extremely direct. I think there's only one case where they changed the non-Japanese word at all, and in that case it was from an Italian word to another Italian word.
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Jul 7, 2016 06:59
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FractalSandwich posted:There's no thematic pattern, but there's a very clear one in how they're phrased. In fact it's so clear that if I list a few of them here you can probably see there's something going on even if you can't read Japanese: It's the same idea as the battlecries in Phantom Brave, where they're actually all color references but for whatever reason they changed some for the localization. Obviously Ash's, but there were a few others as well (the beast dudes' leader didn't as I recall, and of course Heliotrope Blade isn't a color reference). Metallia's is Hebrew as I recall, it means 'witch'. Flonne's is French. They do all make sense but some of them are a bit more obscure than others. FractalSandwich posted:I don't have a list of all the English names in front of me, but from what I remember they're all extremely direct. I think there's only one case where they changed the non-Japanese word at all, and in that case it was from an Italian word to another Italian word. Which one besides Brigante Eclipse is Italian? Or at least HAS to be Italian, Broken Faith Magia works equally well as either Italian or Latin given the word means the same things in both languages. EDIT: Etna's also is, okay. Feinne fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 07:01
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I'm okay with a few of the more punny ones. Was Drumdraw's Attack On Giant a Attack on Titan pun in Japanese as well? I'm curious. Edit: Maybe Tyrant Revelio? Is Revelio Italian?
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Jul 7, 2016 07:04
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The one I had in mind, that I know they changed, was Occhi Clairvoyance / Senrigan no Ricerca.Junpei posted:I'm okay with a few of the more punny ones. Was Drumdraw's Attack On Giant a Attack on Titan pun in Japanese as well? I'm curious.
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Jul 7, 2016 07:11
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I have a lot of question about names of Overloads... Like, what are Balor, Brionac, Mardok, and Revelio?
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Jul 7, 2016 07:16
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Junpei posted:I have a lot of question about names of Overloads... Balor is a Celtic mythological entity (he's king of the Fomorians), and the Brionac is the spear of the Celtic hero Lugh. I've always assumed Mardock is a misspelling of Marduk, who's a god. So Revelio is actually kinda tricky because on one hand it makes sense that it could be an attempt to be a word for 'reveal' but it's equally likely in context to be some synonym for 'revel'. I'm actually inclined to think the latter. It might also be Latin/Italian/something else and suffering from a simple issue of a letter getting hosed up during the Latin->Japanese->English transition given Tyrant Rebelio also makes a lot more sense. Feinne fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 07:21
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Wow, thanks Feinne. Edit: Yeah, given that Killidia really liked killing stuff, "revel" makes a good deal of sense. Was Zeroken's Japanese Overload something like "Okami no Superlumine"?
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Jul 7, 2016 07:24
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Other way around. "Chosoku (兆速) no Wolf".
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Jul 7, 2016 07:27
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FractalSandwich posted:Other way around. "Chosoku (兆速) no Wolf". drat, so close. Is Evangel a word, or did someone just think that sticking an "ev" onto angel made it sound cooler?
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Jul 7, 2016 07:30
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It's referring to the Evangelion. The Good News. The Gospel.
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Jul 7, 2016 07:33
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FractalSandwich posted:It's referring to the Evangelion. The Good News. The Gospel. Ah. Some of the Overloads are obvious: Atrocious Prince refers to Laharl's noble lineage and evil intent Superluminal Wolf is about how Zeroken is a werewolf demon like Fenrich Super Olympia/Universe is about how big RM gets. Also, Baal's Overload, Rakshasa Cataclysm, refers to the beast-people/demons of Indian myth. What about Ameratat's Bravery, Severe Aeshema, Grand Avesta and Wishdom of Ipos?
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Jul 7, 2016 07:41
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How do you get a "new" archangel, anyhow? Someone comes off the wheel of reincarnation?
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Jul 7, 2016 11:09
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Glazius posted:How do you get a "new" archangel, anyhow? Someone comes off the wheel of reincarnation? The opposite of how you get a new Overlord, I assume. So someone is just so nice and self-effacing and helpful that everyone in Celestia agrees that they must be the Archangel?
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