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Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Hollow Knight has a definite 'can't go home' problem since most of your increase in power comes from getting better at the game, so I'm glad they added harder content so I can continue to enjoy Hollow Knight rather than just smash through it.*

*I haven't played any new content yet, this sentiment may change.

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Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...




NObodyNOWHERE posted:

They didn't lock up the new canon finale of the game here.

independent of everything else isn't this literally what they actually did

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002



from what i've read it's "an ending" but not what i'd consider the "canon ending"

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

Hey so there's a real, real bad bug in the final boss of the dlc. Like it needs to get patched asap.

During the climb up to hit Absolute Radiance if you gently caress up and fall into the void it respawns you below the void wall. You can no longer climb without hitting the damage floor (now ceiling) and you just have to accept the loss

Oof :S

reitetsu
Sep 27, 2009

Should you find yourself here one day... In accordance with your crimes, you can rest assured I will give you the treatment you deserve.

ItBreathes posted:

Hollow Knight has a definite 'can't go home' problem since most of your increase in power comes from getting better at the game, so I'm glad they added harder content so I can continue to enjoy Hollow Knight rather than just smash through it.*

*I haven't played any new content yet, this sentiment may change.

That's a good way of putting it. I remember Hornet wiping the floor with me so many times, and now when I fight her again it's almost too slow and I take more damage getting impatient than from her actual attacks. I can only imagine the god-tier skill of the devs who actually made the game, given the talent on display on hitless this-or-that runs.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.
OK now, just bear with me here:

Path of Pain sections between bosses.


Radiant Path of Pain







Pantheon of Pain

call me team cherry, I write endgame design fanfiction for fun. We could lock so much canon behind this!

NObodyNOWHERE
Apr 24, 2007

Now we are all sons of bitches.
Hell Gem

Cowcaster posted:

from what i've read it's "an ending" but not what i'd consider the "canon ending"

Ding ding ding. Glad somebody here can read.

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002



Cowcaster posted:

from what i've read it's "an ending" but not what i'd consider the "canon ending"

i looked it up on youtube and yeah this is it

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002



Discendo Vox posted:

OK now, just bear with me here:

Path of Pain sections between bosses.


Radiant Path of Pain







Pantheon of Pain

call me team cherry, I write endgame design fanfiction for fun. We could lock so much canon behind this!

:hmmyes:

edit: oh you were joking

Procrastine
Mar 30, 2011


Beat Pantheon 4 finally with Verulean's charm build of Unbreakable/Fragile Strength, Mark of Pride, Shaman Stone and Spell Twister and using Descending Dark. (this video) If you haven't beaten it yet, don't forget that after seeing the new boss once you can practice it in the boss refight hall!

Pantheon 5: Lmao Tiso

If the pantheon fights are the same as the attuned fights in the boss hall, shouldn't beating the pantheons give you credit for the respective attuned bosses?

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

Cowcaster posted:

:hmmyes:

edit: oh you were joking

My friend, let me direct you to https://www.crackdownmod.com. making games more difficult is my life's passion, aside from arguing about the minutiae of federal food regulations.

oooh, I've got it- primal aspids with homing shots!

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

Procrastine posted:

Pantheon 5: Lmao Tiso

I'm glad Tiso got the glory he craved.

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002



the greatest trick team cherry ever pulled was putting a bad (spoiler padding) ending behind some super hard content and leaving their fans feeling like they're missing out on story because they've done it so many times in the game already lol

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.
I'm seriously now spreadsheeting out what data I'd need to make as horiffic a bonus challenge as possible that would still be palatable for the target audience.

Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...




NObodyNOWHERE posted:

Ding ding ding. Glad somebody here can read.

:rolleyes:

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011
lmao at the idea of not liking an ending so you pretend it never happened

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002



Arrhythmia posted:

lmao at the idea of not liking an ending so you pretend it never happened

yeah man ascending to the abyss godhood version of the radiance and advancing on hornet with your nail drawn while she takes a combat stance super canon

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

Speaking of, I have good news! There's 2 endings. I'm not going to bother getting the other one.

Cowcaster posted:

yeah man ascending to the abyss godhood version of the radiance and advancing on hornet with your nail drawn while she takes a combat stance super canon

Actually I need to see it again I guess but I thought it was implied that it was the Hollow Knight coming out of the egg uncorrupted which is why she's caught off guard. If it really does reverse the infection then that means there's a canon way to save Myla.

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002



ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

Speaking of, I have good news! There's 2 endings.

aw dang did i get snookered

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

Cowcaster posted:

aw dang did i get snookered

Haven't seen it myself but (Big Spoilers) It's basically the same thing. If you give the Delicate Flower to the Godseeker first it'll absorb and repel the abyss to some extent and get left untarnished.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

Cowcaster posted:

aw dang did i get snookered

If only you'd maxed your affection meters, you'd finally see the harem ending

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011

Cowcaster posted:

yeah man ascending to the abyss godhood version of the radiance and advancing on hornet with your nail drawn while she takes a combat stance super canon

Hollow knight isn't a documentary, none of this happened. It's either all canon, or it isn't.

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002



ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

Actually I need to see it again I guess but I thought it was implied that it was the Hollow Knight coming out of the egg uncorrupted which is why she's caught off guard. If it really does reverse the infection then that means there's a canon way to save Myla.

uh, isn't she standing outside of the intact black egg and the knight approaches from the opposite direction with her in the background

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

Cowcaster posted:

uh, isn't she standing outside of the intact black egg and the knight approaches from the opposite direction with her in the background

It might be main reasoning was just that A) The nail weapon was cracked and busted like Hollow Knights and B) I don't know why she'd be aggressive to the Knight or have a reason to fight him unless he's just a spooky hell monster now after ascending.

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002



ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

It might be main reasoning was just that A) The nail weapon was cracked and busted like Hollow Knights and B) I don't know why she'd be aggressive to the Knight or have a reason to fight him unless he's just a spooky hell monster now after ascending.

oh i thought that was all the etching and engraving of the player's pure nail, not cracking like the hollow knight's. i only watched the "non-flower" ending so maybe he's only a spooky hell monster in that one, but it definitely seems like that's the implication considering he rips radiance apart with his bare hands (claws? tendrils?). it seems like a real diablo 1-style you've become the monster you were fighting (or worse) ending

Cowcaster fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Aug 24, 2018

Procrastine
Mar 30, 2011


Discendo Vox posted:

I'm seriously now spreadsheeting out what data I'd need to make as horiffic a bonus challenge as possible that would still be palatable for the target audience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDk6qkVbf80

Here's your baseline :v:

Idea: NKG and Pure Vessel simultaneously while the Endless Onslaught Zotes (the explosive ones have friendly fire disabled) spawn in regularly. Also an invincible Primal Aspid is there

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.
OK, hear me out: the Yellow Devil, but made of primal aspids. No floor.


...generally I think Hollow Knight really suffers by not taking advantage of the possibilities offered by autoscrolling.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Aug 24, 2018

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


I like how Team Cherry put in a super hard challenge for people who enjoy pain and people are now complaining that it's mandatory.

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

Here's the second ending if you can't be bothered.

Now that I'm seeing it again it is the pure nail, I just saw the void as cracks and was kind of in a rush so didn't notice the pure markings. That said the door and windows to the shrine are clearly seen in the background so idk

ThisIsACoolGuy fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Aug 24, 2018

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011
... are there more endings if you don't upgrade the nail?

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Nothing in this game is mandatory. That's the essence of Metroidvania. I do what I think I'll enjoy and I don't do what I think I won't, and I think that's wise words to live by.

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011

Alxprit posted:

Nothing in this game is mandatory. That's the essence of Metroidvania. I do what I think I'll enjoy and I don't do what I think I won't, and I think that's wise words to live by.

i'm jason statham and the mob injected a poison in me that will only subside when i get achievements so no, video games are NOT voluntary

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002



Arrhythmia posted:

i'm jason statham and the mob injected a poison in me that will only subside when i get achievements so no, video games are NOT voluntary

GoldenJoe
Aug 9, 2006

George Lazenby posted:

Also RE: White Palace. If it's any consolation, I had to play it through plenty of times myself without charms, and played harder configurations with fewer checkpoints haha. I'm not the one who designed it, so it was legit hard for me the first few times. I designed the Colosseum waves though, so if you raged out at the Trial of Fools you can blame me. I actually realised after release that I accidentally put in more enemies than I meant to in the bit with spikes at the bottom where you have to continually wall-jump. People dealt with it though, so oh well!

The question of whether White Palace is or feels 'optional' is pretty interesting. Originally it was more detached from everything, but then we decided it would be a bit sad if it only lead to a powerup or something so we started thinking about how an 'alternate' ending could work. The idea is that you could finish the game without ever doing the hardest bits, but you could get a different outcome if you went for it. So in our minds, or from our point of view, we were adding content to the game by putting in a new ending behind White Palace as a reward for people who do it. But from a player's point of view, this feels more like we've taken the 'proper' ending of the game and locked it away behind the white palace, making people feel like they HAVE to do it.

Not sure if that made sense, but It's an interesting difference between the perspective of us as devs and players that I've been thinking about recently a fair bit. Certainly a lesson I'll remember for future projects.

LIAR!

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!
I think the devs made a game that they themselves would be very excited to play. There isnt really anyyhing nearly this challenging in this genre. Props to them it was big and bold.

Jetrauben
Sep 7, 2011
angered the evil eye lately

ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

Here's the second ending if you can't be bothered.

Now that I'm seeing it again it is the pure nail, I just saw the void as cracks and was kind of in a rush so didn't notice the pure markings. That said the door and windows to the shrine are clearly seen in the background so idk


Given that the sting is the Vessel's leitmotif, and the pointed jingling of chains, I'm inclined to believe that ending is the Knight and Godseeker ascending to godhood and the one confronting Hornet is the Vessel.

I guess displacing the Radiance personally from within Godhome with the full power of the Void is basically booting it from the Dream realm entirely?

Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Aug 24, 2018

DreadCthulhu
Sep 17, 2008

What the fuck is up, Denny's?!
Is my life going to be dramatically better if I get a controller for my PC Hollow Knight? I'm using a keyboard right now and it's alright, just curious if somehow I'm missing out. I've never owned a controller for my PC in 30 years of PC gaming, unless you count lovely joysticks for flight sims back in the 90s. Where do I even start?

DreadCthulhu fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Aug 24, 2018

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015

You don't need a controller, I've been watching a speedrunner go through the new update with a keyboard and she's a hell of a lot better with it than I am with a gamepad. If you want one anyway just pick up an Xbox or PS4 controller and plug it into your PC. Most modern games don't require any more work than that.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?
The game plays much more naturally on a controller imo. I use my PS4 controller and that works fine for me.

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Procrastine
Mar 30, 2011


Just found out boss rush Hornet has different dreamnail dialog than normal. She seems to notice the spectators in the back. Who wants to dreamnail every boss to see if others are changed? :v:

The bindings in boss rush seem to be: Charms, no charms (unsurprisingly); Shell, default health (4); Soul, one third default soul (enough for one spell); Nail, reduced damage but not default nail damage (vengeflies still die in one hit). Anyone know exactly how the nail binding works?

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