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The Hork-Bajir Chronicles-Chapter 6 Aldrea quote:<How are you getting along with your young friend?> my father asked as we galloped across the grass together, side by side. This isn't the first time that either of these species have been mentioned. If you remember, in an earlier book, the Animorphs took Ax to a Star Trek movie, and he noted the Engerprise looked like a Hawjabran ship, and that Worf and Star Trek Klingons looked like female Ongachics. quote:But, my father kept insisting, the Yeerks on their home world have been peaceful, these years since the attack that destroyed his honor. I'm pretty sure this isn't allowed. Chapter 7 Aldrea quote:<I am going to change now,> I said. <It may seem frightening. But it isn’t magic. It is a new technology we have developed.> Probably not related, but a few years before the book came out, they released a sequel to the original X-Com called "Terror from the Deep".
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# ? May 25, 2021 05:17 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 21:03 |
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I gotta say this story's obsession with intelligence and relative mental ability and the simple-minded goodness of the noble savage race except for The One!! who is smart is really skeevy. This must be why it rubbed me the wrong way back then and it has not aged any better.
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# ? May 25, 2021 06:40 |
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The start of this book slots right into a super niche genre of sci-fi books that I liked reading when I was a kid in the 90s, back before YA existed as a marketing genre and I'd just pluck whatever off the library shelves, of "kid's parents get stationed on a remote planet and they get dragged along." Literally cannot think of a single other book that fits into that other than this, but I remember reading a bunch of them.Fuschia tude posted:I gotta say this story's obsession with intelligence and relative mental ability and the simple-minded goodness of the noble savage race except for The One!! who is smart is really skeevy. This must be why it rubbed me the wrong way back then and it has not aged any better. IIRC the noble savage thing sort of gets subverted later - and maybe don't highlight this spoiler even if you've read it, because I had totally forgotten this part until what you said made it twig - when we discover the Hork Bajir were genetically engineered by a smarter species living down in the blue, purely to keep the trees cultivated, and were deliberately kept dumb, and Dak gets rightfully pissed off (or at least sad) about it.
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# ? May 25, 2021 09:11 |
I'll point it out when we get to it, but there's one moment in this story that is entirely too emotionally complex for a young adult book. It's possibly one of the most poignant things I can remember reading.
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# ? May 25, 2021 09:19 |
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This thread has made me realise: I really truly love space operas with interesting species and strange planets.
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# ? May 25, 2021 09:41 |
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Good news, we have at least two more books in that category in the pipe after this one! Incidentally in that vein I'd really recommend Philip Reeve's YA series Railhead, which is a great space opera in the same sort of vein, written by an author of KA's generation who also clearly grew up watching Star Trek, BSG etc.
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# ? May 25, 2021 09:46 |
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freebooter posted:The start of this book slots right into a super niche genre of sci-fi books that I liked reading when I was a kid in the 90s, back before YA existed as a marketing genre and I'd just pluck whatever off the library shelves, of "kid's parents get stationed on a remote planet and they get dragged along." Literally cannot think of a single other book that fits into that other than this, but I remember reading a bunch of them. Le Guin wrote a short story about an anthropologist bringing her son and daughter with her when she went to study a planet of stone-age "humans." The daughter was too young to remember the life of ease and technology they left behind and elects to stay on the planet when her family leaves. IIRC Le Guin explored the fears of "going native" and how it comes from a chauvinistic/colonial mindset.
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# ? May 25, 2021 10:00 |
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The Hork-Bajir Chronicles-Chapter 8 Esplin 9466 quote:It didn’t take long for me to become the reigning expert on Andalites. No one else cared. But I was fascinated.. Esplin has learned the focus of expertise. Pick a subject nobody else cares about. quote:I had “seen” only for a few moments through the Gedd’s eyes. But I could try to imagine the life of a four-eyed Andalite. I had to stretch my imagination to picture what it was like to run. To live most of your life directly under the sun and the stars, with only a transparent atmosphere to protect you. So, the Yeerk serpents have come to the Garden of Eden. And we also meet Akdor, the leader of the Yeerk Rebellion. Chapter 9 Dak Hamee quote:<What is that sound?> Aldrea asked. <I have heard it before. Always at this time of night.> Yep. The Yeerks are here. This is not good news for the Hork-Bajir.
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# ? May 26, 2021 05:13 |
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I finally caught up on this thread and I've been tempted to rush ahead reading the books myself since I dropped off the series as a kid somewhere back in the book 13-15 ish range, but I really like your commentary on each chapter. So I'm just gonna have to wait! This one residually is really good though, a look at the other perspectives outside our usual earth focus is a little overdue I think. So much absolutely wild rear end poo poo went down in these books that I just take memory holed, too.
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# ? May 26, 2021 06:34 |
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Rochallor posted:The only governmental system we get is the Vissers with the Council of Thirteen above them and that's all military, no civilian government. It's possible that the whole Yeerk presence in space is a military junta, since the Andalites blockade the planet presumably right after this. There could be a whole civilian government on the Yeerk homeworld wondering what the gently caress is going on, since no Andalite is going to risk going down to the surface after Seerowgate. This theory doesn't line up, since the Yeerks broke the Andalite blockade sometime between the sixties and the nineties. In book five, last page of chapter 20, Visser 3 posted:<You see, Visser One, I have taken the Andalite bandits. The crisis is over. Your trip here is wasted, and you can return to the home world> Which I suppose explains how Visser 3 knows what the Yeerk world looks like in the Andalite Chronicles.
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# ? May 26, 2021 08:08 |
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I always assumed KA just retconned that down the track, but it would actually make a lot of sense if the Yeerks are powerful enough to have thrown off the Andalite blockade by the 1990s, since they're presented as being of more or less equal strength in this war. edit - Although if Visser Three knows what the homeworld looks like, they must do it pretty quick, since Tobias would've been born in the early '80s and so the Andalite Chronicles can't be taking place much later than ten years after this. freebooter fucked around with this message at 08:21 on May 26, 2021 |
# ? May 26, 2021 08:15 |
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freebooter posted:I always assumed KA just retconned that down the track, but it would actually make a lot of sense if the Yeerks are powerful enough to have thrown off the Andalite blockade by the 1990s, since they're presented as being of more or less equal strength in this war. Regarding the blockade of the Yeerk homeworld, lets just say that's something that KA isn't entirely consistent about.
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# ? May 27, 2021 03:54 |
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The Hork-Bajir Chronicles-Chapter 10 Aldrea quote:“What are Yeerks?” Dak Hamee asked me. Kid's book, everybody. Also, even though Aldrea pointed it out, I'll reinforce that Dak Hamee is the intellectual equal of anybody else in the book, and probably smarter than some of the other characters. Chapter 11 Esplin 9466 quote:I had enjoyed two days in my new Hork-Bajir body. It was still a wonder to me. A miracle. So, having an expert on something advise you is a good thing. They know their subject and they can give you the information you need for better decision making. The problem, of course, which we know from both real life and the book, is that having an expert on something does you no good if you don't listen to them. If Carger had listened to Esplin....well, the book might be shorter. Also, you can see the whole Visser/Subvisser thing starting to happen among the Yeerks, for all that it's ad hoc.
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# ? May 27, 2021 04:08 |
Carger? Too brutal and ambitious?
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# ? May 27, 2021 04:42 |
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I learnt it from watching you, Carger!
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# ? May 27, 2021 04:45 |
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Given how even-keeled and introspective Esplin has been in this book, is it safe to say decades of holding other sentients prisoner combined with Alloran’s distinctive personality made him the Visser we know and love?
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# ? May 27, 2021 07:07 |
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Wait, Esplin is Visser 3? I have trouble remembering Yeerk names. On that note, how do they work? Is Esplin a type of rank, or a "batch" signifier, or a unique name? Is the number an ordinal level or a nominal ID code?
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# ? May 27, 2021 08:59 |
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Tree Bucket posted:Wait, Esplin is Visser 3? I think Esplin is like a given name, and that combined with the serial number is a unique identifier. Aftran's brother had a different name. And in the case of twins, like Visser 3's twin infesting the not-Bill Gates who we met a while ago, they have the same number but are designated "the lesser" or "the greater", like ancient Roman names.
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# ? May 27, 2021 09:48 |
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Tree Bucket posted:Wait, Esplin is Visser 3? Earlier books (2 and 6, I think?) had all names as rank-number, with lower the better ; later ones retconned it so only the (sub)visser work like that, the rest is just their name.
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# ? May 27, 2021 09:52 |
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Tree Bucket posted:Wait, Esplin is Visser 3? Fuschia tude posted:I think Esplin is like a given name, and that combined with the serial number is a unique identifier. Aftran's brother had a different name. And in the case of twins, like Visser 3's twin infesting the not-Bill Gates who we met a while ago, they have the same number but are designated "the lesser" or "the greater", like ancient Roman names. Yeah, it's given name-birth order number. So Esplin-9466 was the 946th recognized birth of whatever trinity of Yeerks spawned him and his twin. In the cases of twins, the last digit of their designation is repeated and one is designated "the greater" and the other is designated "the lesser". It's completely arbitrary who's chosen for what distinction and yet the division curses the one dubbed "the lesser" to a life of being shunned from Yeerk society for not only being a twin, but the lesser of the two twins.
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# ? May 27, 2021 10:20 |
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quote:My brother playing a holo game, lancing imaginary enemy ships. My father … my father standing quietly on his own, thinking, remembering, imagining. Dreaming his hopeful dreams. This is one of the scenes I really remember - the disgraced official, exiled to the alien world, staring out the window at the mist lost in his thoughts, unaware he's about to be obliterated. And the bit where Aldrea says he was "very precise, very punctual" is just exactly how I'd imagine Seerow. A diligent, conscientious public servant; a good person who is just too nice to realise that not everybody else is a good person too. ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:Given how even-keeled and introspective Esplin has been in this book, is it safe to say decades of holding other sentients prisoner combined with Alloran’s distinctive personality made him the Visser we know and love? Yes, I think this is a much better explanation than KA just wanting to write from a Yeerk's perspective and wanting to make that Yeerk a known character and not finding writing from the POV of a megalomaniac to be very interesting, so.. I'm going with this. It's really the introspection that makes the difference, right? The level of thoughtfulness and intelligence. Modern Visser Three is basically Trump.
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# ? May 27, 2021 12:36 |
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Tree Bucket posted:Wait, Esplin is Visser 3? It's a spoiler that won't be revealed until the end of the book, so it's not that you forgot anything, but yes. And I ask people again, please don't spoil plot points.
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# ? May 27, 2021 15:16 |
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Epicurius posted:It's a spoiler that won't be revealed until the end of the book, so it's not that you forgot anything, but yes. Wait, that's not a spoiler. We learn Visser Three is Esplin 9466 from Fenestre in book 16.
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# ? May 27, 2021 15:22 |
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disaster pastor posted:Wait, that's not a spoiler. We learn Visser Three is Esplin 9466 from Fenestre in book 16. Looking back, you're right. Technically, we do. I think KA is still expecting you to be surprised, though.
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# ? May 27, 2021 15:32 |
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The book summary on the inside of the dust jacket also just straight up says it.
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# ? May 27, 2021 15:54 |
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Epicurius posted:It's a spoiler that won't be revealed until the end of the book, so it's not that you forgot anything, but yes. Oops I’m sorry, I thought both the Fenestre book and the Andalite Chronicles told us the name.
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# ? May 27, 2021 16:52 |
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He could be Visser Three's twin. Don't they have the same name?
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# ? May 27, 2021 16:58 |
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HisMajestyBOB posted:He could be Visser Three's twin. Don't they have the same name? They do have the same name. In the Andalite Chronicles, Visser Three is "subvisser (something)"
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# ? May 27, 2021 17:10 |
I was trying to lead into GEE WHO DOES CARGER SOUND LIKE but got preempted
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# ? May 27, 2021 21:52 |
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, it's given name-birth order number. So Esplin-9466 was the 946th recognized birth of whatever trinity of Yeerks spawned him and his twin. In the cases of twins, the last digit of their designation is repeated and one is designated "the greater" and the other is designated "the lesser". It's completely arbitrary who's chosen for what distinction and yet the division curses the one dubbed "the lesser" to a life of being shunned from Yeerk society for not only being a twin, but the lesser of the two twins. Does that mean yeerk spawnings produce a thousand young? That has big implications for yeerk ecology...
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# ? May 28, 2021 01:14 |
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Tree Bucket posted:Does that mean yeerk spawnings produce a thousand young? That has big implications for yeerk ecology... It means whatever the hell KA needs it to mean depending on the book because authors are notoriously sus at understanding how numbers work in real life
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# ? May 28, 2021 01:39 |
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Tree Bucket posted:Does that mean yeerk spawnings produce a thousand young? That has big implications for yeerk ecology... Yeerks are weird as parasites too because they don't seem to actually get anything out of infesting their host other than control over motor functions. While that is obviously significant, most parasites rely on their host for some sort of sustenance. Yeerks still require kandrona - and seemingly only kandrona - while infesting a host which makes them more akin to autotrophs like plants rather than heterotrophs like animals. This seems to suggest that Yeerk ancestor organisms evolved to use their parasitism as a means of spreading from pool to pool on the homeworld, probably initially just hitching a ride without the ability to influence the hosts behavior the same way some seeds evolved to survive consumption and passage through an animal's digestive system as a means of spreading. I could imagine the pre-Yeerk slowly evolving a way to influence the host to become thirsty, to head towards a pool, like how a cordyceps fungus makes an insect climb up high in order to spread its spores. Eventually that became full-blown mental domination. Given their autotrophy, pre-Yeerks would make up the very bottom of the ecosystem and be eaten by everything. Gedds probably spent millenia scooping pre-Yeerks out of pools to eat before having the tables turned on them. Meanwhile the Vanarx we saw in Book 2 was going around and opportunistically sucking the pre-Yeerks who were hitching a ride out of those Gedds' heads. ANOTHER SCORCHER fucked around with this message at 02:24 on May 28, 2021 |
# ? May 28, 2021 02:17 |
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nine-gear crow posted:It means whatever the hell KA needs it to mean depending on the book because authors are notoriously sus at understanding how numbers work in real life While this is assuredly true, it is still so much fun coming up with stuff like- ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:Yeerks are weird as parasites too because they don't seem to actually get anything out of infesting their host other than control over motor functions. While that is obviously significant, most parasites rely on their host for some sort of sustenance. Yeerks still require kandrona - and seemingly only kandrona - while infesting a host which makes them more akin to autotrophs like plants rather than heterotrophs like animals. -and we can speculate that Yeerk sentience is a by-product of the density of nerve matter needed to mesh with a host brain. That said, it's also worth considering Seerow's off-hand comment that Gedds and Yeerks have a symbiotic relationship. This makes sense: cognitition is a hugely expensive process for an organism to maintain (the brain accounts for a fifth of a human's energy needs, according to doctor google.) The gedds as a species have gotten around this problem by outsourcing it entirely to the yeerks. The gedd species gains all the benefits of an advanced nervous system with none of the associated costs; the yeerks, after all, gain their energy by soaking up kandrona rays in a big pond.
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# ? May 28, 2021 02:35 |
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I have my own idea as to Yeerk development, but it’s going to have to wait a few more books
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# ? May 28, 2021 02:42 |
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The Hork-Bajir Chronicles-Chapter 12 Aldrea quote:There was no warning. No warning, except for the awful feeling in my stomach, the churning, awful feeling of dread. There's kind of an irony here in that, in the earlier Cassie book with Afran, Aftran pointed out that Seerow is the only Andalite the Yeerks don't hate, because he was the only one who ever treated them with a modicum of respect. So to have him killed like this, witn the Yeerks not even knowing who they killed, is a kind of sad irony, with Seerow, who never meant anything but good for them, becoming one of their victims. Chapter 13 quote:I was still shaking. My face still burned from the awful heat. My mind was reeling, swirling, crazed by what I had seen. So Dak has now learned what murder and intentional killing is. There was an earlier book that said that the Hork-Bajir would have regular wars every 65 years or something like that, but this book retcons this, making the Hork-Bajir peaceful. Dak Hamee now becomes the first Hork-Bajir to purposefully use violence against another.
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# ? May 28, 2021 05:39 |
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The Hork-Bajir Chronicles-Chapter 14 Aldrea quote:My family was dead. I was the only Andalite within many millions of miles. I had no way of communicating with my people. The Yeerks had come to the Hork-Bajir world, and only Dak and I knew. I’d known that the Hork-Bajir were peaceable. I’d had no idea before this that they simply did not understand the very concept of fighting. Dak Hamee has basically identified the cruelty behind Seerow's Kindness. It wasn't just the giving of technology. It was teaching the Yeerks that they were deprived and inferior to the Andalites. Their entire worldview and sense of contentment was destroyed. That wasn't his intention, of course, but that was the effect. (KA is, as we've seen, a Star Trek fan, and knows about the Prime Directive. quote:<The Yeerks slaughtered most of the Andalites with my father,> I said. <They stole Andalite ships. They escaped into space. Since then they have been looking for suitable host bodies.> One of the things this book does, that other books don't really do, is let us see the Andalites from outside. The Animorphs have Ax as an Andalite model, of course, but they like him, they find him funny, and by the time they meet him, they're already caught up in fighting the Yeerks. For the Animorphs, the Andalites are like the second coming....they'll come someday, and they'll save everybody. Plus, for the Animorphs, this whole war is a secret war. For Dak Hamee, though, he's facing an outright invasion of his people by the Yeerks, and he can see how this war is going to change his people, one way or another. This gives him his own view of the Yeerks and the Andalites, and he's able to see them through a less charitable light. Chapter 15 Aldrea quote:Down, down, always downhill. My leg muscles screamed in pain. I wanted to stop and morph into the chadoo. But there was no time. The Gedds were coming. And I could hear them talking on their communicators, trying to bring the fighters in for the kill. Of course, the Hork-Bajir view Father Deep with terror.
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# ? May 29, 2021 04:46 |
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Epicurius posted:He taught them about written language, about the very concept of manipulating matter, toolmaking, sight, art, everything. That's got to be an oversight on KA's part? Like... written language, maybe, but surely they'd been infesting Gedds long before Seerow showed up? I figured they already had a sort of very rudimentary surface Gedd-infested society. Certainly they already knew about sight.
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# ? May 29, 2021 08:16 |
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freebooter posted:That's got to be an oversight on KA's part? Like... written language, maybe, but surely they'd been infesting Gedds long before Seerow showed up? I figured they already had a sort of very rudimentary surface Gedd-infested society. Certainly they already knew about sight. Sure. One assumes an oversight, or an oversight on Aldrea's part, or just a rant by an angry Aldrea exaggerating her father's generosity towards his murderers.
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# ? May 29, 2021 23:12 |
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Maybe the Yeerks just never really thought that much of the Gedds, or the surface world of their planet, which by all accounts seems like a kinda lovely place. They must have been infesting them for a very long time, since that other creature has evolved to suck them out of heads, but maybe it's just something they do sometimes without having much of an urge to build a surface society. Maybe most of them are happy just echolocating away down there in the sludge, and it's whatshisname's band of revolutionary ideologues that are the driving force behind the empire and the war.
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# ? May 30, 2021 00:24 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 21:03 |
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freebooter posted:Maybe the Yeerks just never really thought that much of the Gedds, or the surface world of their planet, which by all accounts seems like a kinda lovely place. They must have been infesting them for a very long time, since that other creature has evolved to suck them out of heads, but maybe it's just something they do sometimes without having much of an urge to build a surface society. Maybe most of them are happy just echolocating away down there in the sludge, and it's whatshisname's band of revolutionary ideologues that are the driving force behind the empire and the war. I mean, we're told earlier in the book how traumatic infesting the Gedds is for a lot of the Yeerks who were made to do do it onboard ship....terrifying, sickening, awful, so I can see it as one of those things that on their home planet, Yeerks didn't do unless they had to or had the type of personality that wanted to.
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# ? May 30, 2021 00:51 |