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 I must agree! To allow these treacherous douxes crowns and thrones after such a rebellion! It is unthinkable! I also object to the slanders directed against the Orthodox faith for Zenon's crime. He, like all local lords, was compelled by the douxes. This does not mitigate his crime, but we must remember that the Faith is not to blame. I also object to allowing bands of merchants to rule our Empire! Would the Senate sell the government to those whose treachery has already been proven? No, merchants cannot be allowed to rule! The greatest market of all is Constantinople, how long would it be before they sought to overthrow it, seeking to make it a greater Venice? The only way to manage an empire is to put it in God's hands. Already he has chosen the Emperor as His regent on Earth! As God chose the Emperor, the Emperor must choose God, by allowing Orthodox priests to rule over conquered lands. Priestly realms are permanently defined, and ever loyal. They will convert the populace, not only to Orthodoxy, but into Greek-speakers. The douxes are bad enough without letting local "converted" aristocrats join their ranks.
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Feb 22, 2014 06:20
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Ofaloaf posted:If strength of allegiance is your concern, then surely that could be easily dealt with by making all the new despots Komnenoi. What stronger allegiance is there but that of blood? Do we not all serve the House of Komnenos already? Do you not want our great and respected Komnenian dynasty to be granted the honors it has rightfully earned?  Though the words I am about to say taste foul to me, the Papist speaks truth on this matter, if no others. It is easier to manage a few vassals than many, and the douxes will be a much smaller threat if we can put emphasis on a few despotates and merchant-lords. Once we can afford to do so, since as a fellow Senator pointed out naming someone a despot right now would be a sign of weakness and make ourselves a potentially dangerous foe, making despots out of members of the house of Komenos or those proven most loyal to the Imperial crown will make for a much more stable realm, and from that position of strength and stability we could focus on improving the lives of the Roman people, on bringing the wayward Bulgarians back into our protection, and on doing something about the Turks at our doorstep. Would it not be better, fellow Senators, to take this risk in the name of a more unified realm than to constantly have Romans spilling the blood of fellow Romans? For those of us who talk of military strength, consider this: if we call the banners of a despot vassal, we need not worry about the arbitrary whims of a few douxes! The despot will be bound by their oath to us to supply soldiery from all lands under their control, and we can call up a much larger force whenever we like. Remember the veritable legion of Bulgarians who took arms against us in their first revolt, to hand us that terrible defeat? Imagine if with one order we could instantly have an army of that size from just one vassal, instead of running the Empire ragged trying to please myriad douxes who care not if Constantinople burns so long as they own a somewhat bigger slice of it. Lord Cyrahzax posted:
You are right, good Senator, but consider what we are saying: It is not these douxes who would be granted a despotate. No, I would sooner see their lands stripped from them and their bloodlines extinguished! We would give these titles to members of the Imperial family, or only the vassals and courtiers who had proven the most loyal and able of all. We must punish treachery, especially when it results in the death of an Empress and leaves a young child without a mother, but we must also reward good service that people know it is worth serving us faithfully. If you only beat a dog, and do not reward it when it does as you command, you train it only to hate you and to bite the moment you have turned away. (And you should not beat a dog at all, good Senator, but that is taking the metaphor too far!) Flesnolk fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 06:27
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Despots of imperial blood? Outrageous! Every member of a ruling dynasty is so close. To power, respect, authority, to The Throne of Caesars! To crown any but the Emperor would give them the license and power to wage war for the throne! The Komnenoi and the Empire would be shattered in a decade. Every despot is a threat. In fact, every monarch on Earth who is not Emperor is a threat, and a usurpation! The Roman Empire is God's kingdom on Earth. The Emperor is his regent, he and no other. To allow anyone to think they are within reach of such a position is blasphemy! Lord Cyrahzax fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 06:34
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The answer to that is simple. Award such station only to members of the dynasty who understand they, while still Komnenoi and of impressive title, are still below the Imperial throne. For such a great seat, we must choose Komnenoi of unambitious natures, and who enjoy good relations with the Emperor or Empress, such that they would not be inclined to rise against their own kin. Surely you can see how blood makes for more loyal vassals than gold? Flesnolk fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2014 06:37
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Perhaps, for the first. But what of their sons? And theirs in turn? What if there is coup? If a Komnenos despot can be overthrown, why not the Emperor?
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Feb 22, 2014 06:40
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:
 I'm sorry, are you accusing the Komnenoi, the family of our Emperor, of being treacherous, deceitful and powerhungry to the detriment of the Empire?
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Feb 22, 2014 06:41
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No, I accuse them of having that potential! Only the Emperor himself is a reflection of heaven. Was this last civil war not fought at the behest of Komnenos claimant?
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Feb 22, 2014 06:44
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On their behalf, but at their behest? We have no proof of that, nor did we see the claimant on the battlefield. We have an army of spies, led by a capable Mystikos, who have been waging a shadow war with the Turks; surely keeping an eye on the factions within a few despotates would be within their power, and if all else fails? A knife in the dark is worth a thousand swords.
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Feb 22, 2014 06:47
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Perhaps. But did Kaisarios turn himself over to the Empress? Would he have rejected the throne won for him? I doubt it. I wouldn't know about such things firsthand, but I have heard that assassins and conspiracies are expensive. In a protracted war with some heathen empire, what could stop a cabal of despots? Or even a particularly powerful one? Especially when funded by even one gang of merchant-lords?
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Feb 22, 2014 06:51
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Flesnolk posted:For those of us who talk of military strength, consider this: if we call the banners of a despot vassal, we need not worry about the arbitrary whims of a few douxes! The despot will be bound by their oath to us to supply soldiery from all lands under their control, and we can call up a much larger force whenever we like. Remember the veritable legion of Bulgarians who took arms against us in their first revolt, to hand us that terrible defeat? Imagine if with one order we could instantly have an army of that size from just one vassal, instead of running the Empire ragged trying to please myriad douxes who care not if Constantinople burns so long as they own a somewhat bigger slice of it. And yet if that one vassal finds themselves displeased, that arbitrary whim matters a hundred-fold. Remember, Senator Flesnolk, that Imperial law stands with us here, for an Emperor may revoke the title of any Doux at will, making our power over them far greater than our power over any Despotes. When we give up power from the theme system to a system of kings, we remove even the pretense that we are a ruling Empire with an army and law both under the watchful eye of the Emperor. No, we become an empire in name only, an empire of kings who stand apart from the Autokrator and demand things at their whim from him. We may say that we can keep such men loyal, but if we cannot keep minor princes and potentates loyal, what madness tells you that we shall be able to control a vassal of five or six times the strength? If we found ourselves being bitten by our dog, Senator, the solution is not to buy a beast ten times the size! It is to discipline it and keep it in line, knowing well who is the master and who is the servant! Ofaloaf posted:
All men are sinful, and all men lust for power in their hearts. Even we are fallen, Senator Ofaloaf, surely even papists such as yourself recognize the truth of this. Let us remember this - the Komnenoi are men as other men, and while they bear the title of Vice-Gerent of Christ this does not make them immune to lusts for wine, women, or power. To lift up all men of a single bloodline is foolish, and I doubt the Emperor would care for such nonsense. The Komnenoi are those with the greatest claim to rule, and by making them all Despotes, we give them both reason and power to press their claims on the throne, plunging the Empire into civil war beyond what it has already suffered. Senator, I understand that in your devotion to the heretic who sits on the gilded throne of Rome, you might wish to weaken our fair empire that we might be convinced to bow to him in order to save our own necks. But the rest of the Senate shall not allow your plans to go through, and you may plot against our empire all you wish, but we shall preserve and maintain it despite your depredations.
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Feb 22, 2014 06:52
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Flesnolk posted:
 Except as a man, our Mystikos will eventually pass, and what of his successor? Will he be just as capable? Our beloved empress was able to wage an effective shadow war against the Bulgarians and the Turks, but that was due in part of having the right man in the right place at the right time, can we always assume that. Placing more power in the hands of a few nobles? No! Despots would be even worse than Douxs, at least with a vile Doux we can revoke their title in the event of their uprising without concern for reprisal or the health of the empire. A despot, that would be even more difficult. Plus too, as bad as the Doux rebellions are, imagine how much worse a Despot rebelling would be, they each could take much more the land with them in rebellion or worse, secession. Lets learn from the past, remember the Tetrarchy under Diocletian, while it allowed Byzantium to become the true power it is today, it also was one of the main reasons Rome became so weak towards the end. Desposts would become the new Tetrarchy for Byzantium, do not allow this to happen my friends. Concentrating more power into those who are basically Doux 2.0 will never end well.
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Feb 22, 2014 07:00
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These dangers you speak of are real, I am not fool enough to deny that, but think about it. The laws of our empire allow us to revoke the lands of any given doux for any reason and at any time, this is true; but how, pray tell, has that helped us even a little? I daresay it has done nothing! How many times have we fought these civil wars, wasting the lives of so many young Roman men and women to quash the ambitions of old traitors? Our land has many douxes, Senators, and as we expand there will be many more - there are already enough, I suggest with no insult meant towards any of our Imperial family, that our rulers have suffered from an inability to keep track of all of them at once. Are not five people easier to keep tabs on than ten? Is it not easier to keep a small group happy than to please an entire legion of men? You speak of what might happen, and I say with proper diligence these threats, while no less real, can be prevented - and keep in mind that there will be a whole generation of nobles who will owe their titles to the Imperial throne, and they will remember that; this might not guarantee the future, but it gives us breathing room we sorely need. In addition, I suggest that from now on, any doux found to be leading a dissident faction, for any reason, have their title immediately revoked.
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Feb 22, 2014 07:13
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And what if a despot leads a faction? Arrest one and offend them all, baring excommunication. Fail to arrest one, start a powerful rebellion, an opportunity for other dissidents and our other enemies. Imagine if despots ruled the provinces now. The Empress is dead, and her heir is an infant. Constantinople would drown in ocean of their blood, be it for the throne or independence, if we allow this horrid policy of local rule to continue. And when the wars were over, what would we have? The Turks would surely take a break from their civil wars to pounce. The despotates would remain, ready to fall into the hands of resentful sons. And our new Emperor, siting on his bloody throne, would be utterly powerless, his armies already spent, dreading the continuation of the cycle.
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Feb 22, 2014 07:44
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PART THIRTEEN: The Komnenian Crisis (1170-1212) Serious Byzness: A Byzantine History Blog http://seriousbyzness.tumblr.com Okay, so, here's the thing with Iouliana the Great: She got a ton done in her lifetime, so it's no wonder everyone called her Iouliana the Great even when she was still alive, walking around and wearing crowns, eating gyros and kissing boys, reorganizing themes and having her enemies assassinated. But after she died, it almost all fell apart. Every single victory, every single reform, all that hard work bringing the nobles to heel and reestablishing Byzantine authority in Bulgaria and sending the Black Chamber after sultans and tsars could have just gone spiraling down the drain in the late 12th century. And who knows? Maybe we'd still call her Iouliana the Great if what came after her reign was "the Komnenian collapse" instead of "the Komnenian Crisis". We don't call Alexander the Great "Great" for his ability to build lasting pan-mediterranean institutions. Generations of ancient Romans never shut up about great Trajan was even though Hadrian just took one look at Mespotamia and just noped on out of there. Hey, how about that time Justinian the Great reconquered the west? Okay, so, yeah, if Iouliana's reforms and territorial gains had been lost forever as soon as Zenon the Wicked stuck a sword in her eye everyone probably still would have talked about her forever. The history of the Roman Empire is pretty much just a long chain of old dudes complaining about how things were so much better in the golden age. That's the the most important Roman tradition the Old Roman faction of the Senate kept alive, really: the belief that things were really so much better before But anyway, the story of the Komnenian Crisis is the story of how Iouliana the Great's legacy was long-term institutional change to the empire, rather than a fleeting moment of glory in an empire in the process of being flushed down a toilet. So let's get into it. Okay, so, up until Iouliana got killed by Zenon the Wicked (which is pretty much the most metal way you can die) the revolt the empire was facing was... well, pretty routine, really. It had happened over and over again since the last time a revolt actually stood a chance of doing some damage way back in Alexios I Komnenos' reign— the emperor or empress or the Senate or somebody who's not a doux seemed to be doing well for themselves, the douxes felt the squeeze, and then a bunch of douxes revolt like crying babies and a giant Byzantine army chases them around Greece and Anatolia until they shut up. And then for the next few decades everyone has to run their themes from a jail cell in Constantinople. (Or, if you've run afoul of Meletios I, with your eyes gouged out). But then suddenly the immensely prestigious and popular Iouliana the Great was dead and a zitty 14 year old is wearing the purple.  Fortunately, Alexios II wasn't actually in charge yet— Iouliana's brilliant spymaster-- generally seen as the first minister of the Black Chamber, although who knows if anybody actually called it that yet-- assumed control as regent.  And the military apparatus Iouliana had built up looked to be still running smoothly.  But Iouliana's death suddenly made a lot of Douxes (and the merchant princes of Belgorod and Crimea) realize that they might actually have a shot at dismantling the reformed theme system and suddenly the vast majority of the empire was in revolt.  Adriane had enough troops and money at her disposal to put together armies that could meet any single force the rebels could muster head-to-head-- but the loyalists were still spread thin, and even keeping Constantinople safe was getting pretty hectic. The trick was if she could defeat the rebels enough to batter them into submission before attrition and Turkish mercenaries and pissed-off Norsemen with giant axes whose paychecks bounced caught up with the empire.  But it probably would have worked. Until something went horribly wrong: Alexios II came of age, and Adriane was out on her rear end.  Unable to make a decent marriage alliance, Alexios settled for a wife whose relatives were willing to throw a giant pile of money at the reeling empire. He also went and knocked up Empress Oda more or less immediately. Which. Well. Turned out to be a pretty lucky break. But we'll get to that.  Overall, though, he was disgusted at the state of the empire— it was nothing more than a bunch of pathetic lickspittle sycophants on one side and traitorous nobles who totally killed his mom on the other. He decided to take a more active role in the war effort than he did during Adriane's regency.  He decided that he'd lead the defense of Attaleia personally. Even though, like, within the last couple of years personally leading armies had just wiped out like half the chain of succession? Wow, great plan.  His courtiers urged the emperor to escape when he had a chance— that even being at the head of an army would be better than being captured by the enemy in some dumb castle nobody cares about. Alexios was all like, nuh uh, you're not the boss of me!  So then in a totally shocking and not at all foreseen development, Emperor Alexios II Komnenos was captured by the enemy in some dumb castle nobody cares about.  So here the douxes had the emperor in chains, totally under their power. They could have easily forced him to give up his crown and win the war right there. Instead, they did something way grosser.  Um, yeah. Remember when I said it was a good thing he'd already knocked up the empress? Yiiiiikes. The fact that the douxes were short-sighted enough to let their hankering for castration-based revenge get in the way of bringing the war to a decisive end was probably to the benefit of Byzantium, but I sort of think Alexios II wish the other thing happened; the one where he's forced to abdicate. Instead, though, the military situation had stalemated— neither side was in a position to beat the other. The douxes still refused to pool their resources, but the Byzantines let tons of their dudes die in an ill-fated attempt to relieve Attaleia. So everyone just kind of settled for the status quo. Alexios II kept his throne, the theme system was left intact, but the douxes and doukessas who killed his sister and his mom and castrated him were able to just keep on keeping on. Which I imagine kind of stung. But he'd already gone and hosed up Adriane's war plans, so it was either that or have all of that bad stuff happen and also lose the war.  Now, with Oda and Alexios' son already born, the court hoped to keep the true nature of Alexios' injuries secret. So of course pretty much everyone in the entire empire knew immediately.  Or, you know, what was left of the empire in 1177. Byzantium's neighbors all dogpiled the isolated themes of the rebels— the Tengri Crimeans reconquered the confusingly named theme of Crimea, and the Seljuks cut Trebizond off from the rest of the Empire.  At least he'd managed to capture the Komnenos claimant the rebels had put forward as a puppet emperor, even if the douxes themselves were still living it up.  He also successfully played his vassals against one another, trying to prevent any one of them from getting too powerful.   The relationship between Alexios and his wife was not going well. For, um, obvious reasons.  Meanwhile, he attempted to establish that order had been restored by siccing Adriane's Black Chamber on the Seljuks and paying off the empire's loans.   Kaisarios-- the one who's the heir, not the one Alexios threw in the dungeon (wouldn't it be nice if all these Komnenoi had more than, like, three names?)-- could sense that his father was a pretty crappy emperor. Kaisarios knew a lot of things, since he was this totally spooky baby genius.  In 1180, Alexios finally got around to trying to throw the Crimeans out of... Crimea.  The Crimean military that had managed to defeat Iouliana's army at Kocibey was long gone, and beating up a giant column of cataphracts, Varangians, and Turks was trickier than poaching territory from a bunch of rebellious mayors.  Not that Alexios II had a chance to bask in the glow of victory. Or even see the war won. He died of complications from his, er, injuries later in 1180.  Instead, power fell to Baby Genius Kaisarios I Komnenos, who at the age of three was probably already a stronger ruler than his late father.  Everyone else thought a cynical super-intelligent toddler was way too creepy to deal with, so the court appointed a talented diplomat named Meletios as regent to reassure everyone.  Shortly after taking the throne, Kaisarios received word that his grandmother's territorial gains to the empire had been restored to the empire.  He decided to make the theme of Crimea a merchant republic. Meletios suggested that maybe he should at least make the appointed leader of that republic convert to Orthodoxy? Kaisarios was just like, whatever, sure, but remember I can have you killed at literally any moment. Again: Picture a three year old saying that. God.  At that point, it was three o'clock, which meant it was time for another revolt. The Pecheneg nobles weren't super pumped about Kaisarios letting a bunch of Cumans compete for trade in the Black Sea. "I'll be drinking wine from your hollowed out skulls within months," Kaisarios didn't say, but you'd totally believe it if he did. Things didn't go so hot for the Pechenegs. They tend not to, when these things happen.  By this point everyone was super creeped out by Kaisarios, so a Komnenos nobleman named Dorotheos claimed the throne on the basis of not being a weird baby genius child emperor.   The remnants of Bulgaria had their own designs on Kaisarios' title. But, really, you'll probably just get your dumb rear end killed if you try to usurp a creepy baby's title.   After the inevitable failure of Dorotheos' power-grab, Kaisarios decided to just exile him forever instead of killing him. "It would give me pleasure to execute Dorotheos, or to blind him, or castrate him," Dorotheos actually did say to Meletios (!!!), "But having a vast fortune at my disposal would please me so much more." Meletios' reaction isn't recorded, but probably it involved backing out of the room really fast.  He also started stealing things from the adults in the palace for fun. "I could have any of these things simply by asking, for I am emperor," he told his friend Nikephoros, "But I'd rather they live with the uncertainty that their possessions could vanish at any time without any explanation. It will, perhaps, remind them that the continuation of their lives is equally conditional."  Finally, though, Meletios decided that he should probably try to stop being terrified of his ward long enough to try to raise him decently.     In 1186, Meletios excitedly told Kaisarios that after a successful crusade, the Holy Land was once more in Christian hands. "It is nothing to me," he totally not apocryphally said, "No; it is less than nothing. The Genoese state will fail, inevitably, and perhaps this time it will be the Seljuks rather than the Egyptians who seize it-- to the detriment of our empire."  The New Byzantines had continued to hold sway in the Senate for all this time, mostly coasting on the martyred Iouliana the Great's close identification with the Senate. Now, though, they were finally able to resume their programs of urbanization and modernization, with some of Dorotheos' confiscated riches being put towards fixing up some of the gross tenements of Constantinople. Kaisarios agreed to this, "Better sanitation and expanding housing will mean that Constantinople will support a greater population," he said, "which, in turn, means both more taxes for the empire and more subjects to serve me." Meletios checked his watch to see when this horrible regency would be over and he could just get back to the quiet life of a court eunuch.  It turns out that his regency would end right then, though. Kaisarios became moody and withdrawn, and the regent finally lost his temper.  Meletios was never seen again.  The Dowager Empress Oda von Chiemgau, whom the late Alexios II had married in order to paper over his own considerable shortcomings, was considerably more qualified to rule the empire than Meletios ever was. She was Catholic, though, so the Milvians in the Senate threw a fit— but, at this point, nobody really liked them anyway. Everyone was all like, hey, wasn't it an Eparch who killed Iouliana? And it's not like Kaisarios is being raised Catholic.  Since she knew her natural allies were the New Byzantines and Old Romans, she did them both a favor by ordering facilities built to further increase the size of the empire's standing army of cataphracts.  It wasn't enough, though. Palace officials were all like, "Well, this super cool kick-rear end and ultra-competent genius believes in a slightly different religion, so let's just appoint some rando as regent instead."  Polykarpos decided that the best use of his awesome power over the empire was to appoint himself Doux of Moesia and one of his cronies (whom he later married) Doux of Wallachia when the incumbent Doux died and the themes he held reverted to the crown. "You know this is a really bad idea," said Kaisarios from the small room Polykarpos had locked him in while he packed his bags.   After Polykarpos rode off into the sunset in a development which definitely wouldn't come back to haunt the empire later on, Adriane of the Black Chamber returned to once again assume the regency.  She took a more responsible tack towards Kaisarios, and hoped he'd turn out better than Alexios II did.  As a veteran of Iouliana's New Byzantines, she continued the legal reforms Iouliana had started so long ago.  So, with Adriane around, public works construction started up again, and the Ioulian Code being further refined, the Komnenian crisis has to be over, right? Oh, hey Polykarpos. Wow. Yikes. Emperor of Bulgaria, huh? Do I even want to know how that happened?  Oh, and you took your theme with you too, huh? Oh dear.  Obviously, Adriane wasn't having any of that.  Declaring war on the traitor Polykarpos would be Adriane's last act, though, when the mistress of the Black Chamber whose agents had killed like three Sultans and God knows who else suffered the totally non-ironic fate of being assassinated by the Hashshashin.  The war with Bulgaria still wrapped itself up nicely, though, since at this point Iouliana had already driven Bulgaria so far into the ground all her successors had to do to win a war against it was point the Byzantine Army in its direction and then wait a few months.  Kaisarios was already planning for the next war against Bulgaria. When told that all of the claimants whose claims had formed the basis of Byzantines prior wars against the Bulgarian Empire had either died off or already had their rightful territory restored, Kaisarios was all like, who cares, we'll make more.  If you're wondering who was regent after Adriane got hashsahsinated, by the way, well, sorry. Nobody bothered writing the poor sucker's name down. Kaisarios was already pretty much calling the shots, deftly playing his courtiers against one another. And probably laughing about it really creepily.  Finally, in 1193, he came of age, and could dispense with the polite fiction of a regency entirely.  He decided to take a pilgrimage to Jerusalem-- mostly out of curiosity. He wanted to see how the Genoese had set up shop before they inevitably got thrown out by the Egyptians or the Turks. He came back a changed man, however.  Intrigues against Bulgaria continued when Alexandra, Polykarpos' crony/partner in crime/wife announced when she died, her theme would pass to the Bulgarian Empire and her children with the emperor.  Kaisarios was all like, um, you can't do that, since Iouliana totally reformed the theme system and I can take away your theme just by asking for it back. You knew that, right?  Alexandra did not, in fact, know that, since up until this point nobody wanted to poke the wasp's nest with a stick by revoking some Doux's theme and start, like, the hundredth civil war about the issue. But Alexadra— literally the wife of the Bulgarian Emperor-- the Bulgarian Emperor who betrayed the sacred trust the Byzantines put him-- was so transparently a traitor that no Doux dared raise an objection to the revocation. And an important precedent was set.  In 1196, the future Empress Euphrosyne was born.  Kaisarios decided that that Bulgarian province he'd falsified a claim on would make a pretty sweet birthday present for the princess.  I like to imagine it was Kaisarios' way of apologizing for giving her such a hard to spell name. Oh, right, the Byzantines won the war in like three seconds.  He attributed his victory to God and the inspiration of St. George. "I have slain the Bulgar dragon," he said, disconcerting a Senate which was pretty sure that the general collapse of the Bulgarian empire was a combination of many complex factors, including the decisive defeat Iouliana dealt them in the war over Ragusa, continued territorial losses over the past several decades, a military strengthened by years of New Byzantine construction projects and organization reforms, etc., etc. Kaisarios was all like, "nope, dragons."  Not everyone in the empire was impressed with the emperor's fancy and expensive icons, though.  The Seljuks decided they'd try out having a massive, empire-crippling civil war without the Byzantines killing a sultan or two first. You know. Just for a change of pace.  The Black Chamber was busy killing Polykarpos so Kaisarios decided to continue the ongoing dismemberment of the Bulgarian Empire without having to wait for a boring truce to expire.  The Iconoclasts took advantage of the emperor's weird Bulgaria fixation.  Kaisarios kept his eyes on the prize, though, and soon Ragusa— long a sticking point between the two empires— was safely ensconced in imperial territory.  The "Bulgarian Empire" was now a tiny rump state. And hey, cool, the douxes of Trebizond grabbed some Seljuk territory in the midst of their civil war! Trebizond was still cut off from the rest of Byzantine Anatolia, though, which concerned Kaisarios.  He felt better after having the sitting sultan killed, though.  The civil war thus escalated, Kaisarios decided that the best way to reconnect Trebizond with the rest of the empire would be to kick the Saimids (remember them?) around.  The army quickly occupied the Saimids before the Seljuks could reassert their control.   By 1207, they were calling him Kaisarios the Saint. The Church and the Milvians likely meant it sincerely-- he'd won holy wars, suppressed Iconoclast heresies, commissioned big fancy icons everywhere, and so on. I like to think that the rest of the Senate and anybody else who remembered his regency put scare quotes around it, though. Kaisarios 'the Saint'.  Anyway, he knew how to get the New Byzantines to put up with him some more.  While he was busy going through the perfunctory effort of defeating the mighty Bulgarian Empire at war, the New Byzantines passed an edit of toleration building on the one Iouliana had passed earlier.  Apparently, "Mesembria and nothing else" still counts as an Empire.  For all of his stormy relations with everyone else around him, Kaisarios is said to have doted on his daughter. Probably he remembered how messed up his own childhood had been.  He died at the age of 31 in 1208. He'd done a lot to regain what had slipped away after the death of his grandmother, but everybody was probably still secretly kind of relieved. You know? Guy was spooky.  Euphrosyne, on the other hand, was growing up to be a fine young lady. She had her father's cynicism and blunt honesty, but the subtlety and attention to detail needed to not creep people out with it.  Kaisarios' will specified that Eparch Aydogan Baytasid be named regend during his daughter's minority. Absolutely nobody was surprised that he'd leave the empire in the hands of a clergyman— but the New Byzantines probably thought it was pretty cool he was Turkish. They liked that kind of thing, those New Byzantines.  Aydogan largely ran the empire for the church's benefit.  Like his mentor Kaisarios, though, he knew when to throw the Senate a bone.  RIP Bulgaria, 1126-1210. They were pretty much doomed as soon as Iouliana devastated their standing army, and super doomed when she smashed their empire to bits by seizing Moesia— but the remnants had tenaciously held on for nearly a century. Maybe letting some renegade ex-regent from Byzantium be the tsar wasn't such a great idea though, huh? I guess they were pretty boned by that point anyway.  Bulgaria's loss was Byzantium's gain, natch. These were heady, optimistic times, and it rubbed off on the young empress.  Historians generally say the Komnenian Crisis ended in 1212. Although, really, they'd pretty much stopped being crisis-like by the time Trebizond was reunited with the mainland. I guess maybe Kaisarios' early death could have started some poo poo, though. Or maybe Euphosyne's regency could have descended into the sort of backstabbing viper pit intriguing that her father's had. So maybe it is fair to say that they weren't really out of the woods until the empress came of age without incident.  She collected a sizable dowry at her wedding...  ...and won the adoration of the New Byzantines by using the money to build a university.  Still, with the empire at peace, it was time for a new political settlement. The New Byzantines favored by Iouliana had carried the empire through the crisis years and preserved what the great empress had built. But soon it would be time for a new political settlement for a new era of peace and prosperity. After all, it was the 1210s. What could possibly go wrong in the near future? Like, in the steppes? On the eastern half of Eurasia? Probably nothing.  World Map (1212):   Assassination Scorecard: Tsars Killed: 2 Sultans Killed: 4 Nosy Chancellors Killed: 1 Next: State of the World Before The Mongols Show Up and VOTES
Empress Theonora fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 08:06
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What's the situation with Cilicia?
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Feb 22, 2014 08:21
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Now, I know some of my fellow senators may have a dislike for icons. Personally, I don't see why. They look so impressive and stately! (Also, to those of you out there who know Latin better then me, yes it probably should be Novi Marii. I no know latin.)
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Feb 22, 2014 08:30
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Holy poo poo, that was a hell of an update. Well, let me be the first among the Senate to congratulate our new Empress and her capable regency for both purging the Bulgarian traitors from the face of the world and for creating one of the most impressive centers of learning in the civilized world. On behalf of the Jewish community, and on behalf of the Jewish community, I sincerely hope that she doesn't follow in her father's footsteps and be overtaken by a Milvian zealotry. While piousness is a fine characteristic, I'm sure many of you remember the harsh and brutal steps he had taken against the Iconoclasts-- necessary measures, I am sure, but among the ghettos and the synagogues, many of my fellows were convinced that we would be next. Now, onto business, I am thrilled to report that the new merchant republic in Crimea is both unquestionably loyal to the crown and a great boon to Byzantium's coffers. Clearly, this is proof that a republican theme is more useful than the wretches that pretend at nobility. I'd like to propose that all future douxes who rebel ought to have their titles stripped and given to the most diligent and prestigious mayor or governor in the theme. In addition, I see no reason why this ought to be restricted to Orthodox Christians. Certainly, we ought not allow pagans to hold lands, but the Jewish population that's kept the Empire afloat on the other hand...
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Feb 22, 2014 08:56
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Can there be a faction that charges the empress to immediately do everything possible to remove that stretch of land controlled by the Turks? For the love of God I don't care where the purple is as long as it's nice and solid.
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Feb 22, 2014 10:23
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It is good to see that the safety and prosperity of the Empire lies in such capable hands! I only regret that the machinations of the perfidious court kept the Queen Regent Oda from lending her considerable skills for longer. Regardless, I see that I stand corrected in regards to the Levant - may our good Catholic brothers survive longer in their endeavor this time around. Perhaps it may be wise to consider an offer of assistance in their defense of the Holy Land? Mull it over it my friends. Even those of you who have hardened their hearts the most against our pious Latin brothers must realize that a Jerusalem under their rule is preferable to it suffering beneath a heathen Turk.
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Feb 22, 2014 10:40
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forkis posted:
I back this wholeheartedly. A string Jerusalem is a spear in the heart of the infidel turcoman. That our lands continue to suffer under their rule is more than an insult - it is a damning inditement of the schism that has divided Christianity for too long.
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Feb 22, 2014 11:04
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In your grandfather's day, Empress, we in the Senate discussed the idea of forming despotates from the various themes and appointing the seats to members of your house or proven loyalists, for fewer, more powerful direct vassals would be more useful and easier to keep loyal than the multitudes of petty, ambitious douxes that eat away at Rome's belly even as we speak. It seems every few years we're dealing with a scheme against the Imperial throne or fighting civil wars, and these have hamstrung our progress against the heathens to the east and heretics to the west. I am not certain now is the time for such things, we should build up our strength more first, but I bring this up for your consideration as a future goal, and also to make one point: no douxes are to be trusted, under any circumstances. It was the treacherous douxes, who went unpunished against my advice, who murdered your great grandmother, and ever since Alexios I we have had nothing but trouble from them all. The Black Chamber are your friends, here, as is Imperial law - you have the authority to revoke any doux's theme without warrant, and your spies can hear the whispers you cannot, as occupied with the big picture as you must be for everyone's good. Should any douxes join or create factions conspiring against you in any way, please, I implore you to immediately revoke their titles and hand them to family members or loyal members of their realm. No appeals, no warnings - nip them in the bud before they ever have the opportunity to move against you, and should they prop up other claimants to your titles... the Black Chamber's knives are still sharp, and steel does not discriminate between Roman and Turkish flesh. lenoon posted:
I agree as well. The Turkish empire needs to be weakened however it can, and while we must eventually face the hordes in the west, for now let their enemies be ours, and hopefully ours will be theirs in turn. Flesnolk fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 11:14
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SENATE SESSION: STATE OF THE WORLD, 1212  : Um, hello!: I think it'd be really nice to find out what's on everyone's mind! The ministries my great grandmother Iouliana put in place worked out pretty swell, I gotta say, but there's a lot of new faces in the Senate and I want to know what you all have to say!: Apparently you've all been cooped up in the stuffy old Senate House for a while now, though, so before you decide what to vote for, let's take a world tour!: What? Oh, no, you definitely can't actually leave. We'll be exploring the world with the power of MAPS! Also, our imaginations. This is Constantinople! And, if you look around the Bosphorus, you can see Belgorod tradeposts all over the place! They make us a lot of money in taxes when they aren't having conniptions and revolting. You can also see the standing army the New Byzantines have been working so hard on! (They aren't that big in real life.)  And here's the Roman Empire! Greeks and Turks, Serbs and Bulgars, Pechenegs and Cumans and everyone else, all one happy family... of Romans! There's even some Catholics. Like Grandma. Maybe Dad would have been less weird if they'd just left her in charge.  Right next door is Cilicia, ruled by Armenia Miaphysites. I'm not really sure why the Turks never conquered it, so good for them!  Here's the Turkish Empire! Wow, looks like the Seljuks are holding onto it. Observe how for once it's not in a massive civil war for once! Note well that the Black Chamber gotten around to killing Sultan Iskender! I'm told they're working on it.  All looks well, but... why... what's that down south? The Shia Caliph of Egypt's after the Sultan's crown! Looks like he's winning, too.  The Caliph's Banu Fatimyyun Sultanate's so darn big we can't even really fit it on the map! You might need a magnifying glass to see it all. Sorry!  Iberia's kind of a mess, huh! You've got the Taminid Sultanate down south, the kingdom of León in the northwest, two Portugals, a bit of France that spilled over the Pyrenees, and, in the west...  The banu Barghawati Sultanate! But let's just call it Mauritania, since that's Sultan Khalid banu Barghawati's primary title, you know.  Elective monarchy hasn't worked out so great for France, I don't think! Maybe they should have stuck with the Capets. They're not having a civil war, by the way. Just a regular war. So their borders actually look like that. I know, I was surprised too!  The Normans have hung onto England, although they've lost most of Normandy. So really it'd probably be better to call them "the English". And the de Normandies are toast— William the Conquerer's descendants all murdered one another, and the FitzAdelisas have held the throne for decades. They're also Waldensians! They do all sorts of stuff the Pope doesn't like, like vows of poverty and universal priesthood and preaching the gospel in vulgar tongues. Whatever! It's all Greek to me. I think the King just wanted to become a heretic so he could declare a holy war on France to kick them out of Cornwall.  So, if you were an Irish Catholic queen who ruled 2/3 of Ireland what would you call your country? I think I would call it "Ireland". But Wales is fine too!  Fortunately, the Scottish kingdom is still helpfully known as "Scotland". They're Catholic, too. Watch out, England!  Then there's the Holy Roman Empire! Wow, it's been a rough century since Henry IV kicked the bucket, huh? I mean, they aren't having a civil war in that map, either. Is that Hungary ruling Lorraine for some reason? Gosh.  While we're talking about Henry IV, there's a whole bunch of Catholic Komnenoi descended from his daughter Agnes Salian and Prince Nikephoros Komnenos. We're the Dukes of Franconia! But Euphraxia forgot to marry matrilineally so that's the end of that.  This guy's the Grandmaster of the Knights Templar! How'd that happen?  And even though I'm pretty sure "Acfred" isn't actually a name, Acfred Komnenos is the Duke of Calabria in the Kingdom of Sicily! Hey, nice job, dude!  Sicily's done pretty well for itself. Marçau the Wise is actually descended from Duchess Matilda de Hauteville! Remember that bit from the Alexiad were Alexios allied with her and we saved her duchy and then like three Sicilians armed with sticks helped us in the next war! Well, things are better there. The de Hautevilles married in the de Toulouses there, though, so that's it for the de Hauteville name. Also of note: The Genoans, who are still directly administering the remnants of their Holy Land territories right from Italy instead of spinning it off onto some younger son nobody likes! Seems like a bad idea to me, but they've lasted longer than the last Kingdom of Jerusalem.  Poland's been doing pretty well now that HRE plans to eat them have mostly fallen through. Their queen is a cool old lady!  Meanwhile, there's a big kingdom in Lithuania now! They're pagans, but not the cool kind of pagan the Old Romans pretend not to like but secretly do anyway, so I guess they're bad news.  Kiev is pretty much the only other Orthodox country worth talking about left in the entire world besides us! Since I just finished destroying Bulgaria forever, right? They'd make pretty good allies, but don't think I didn't see that little bite you took out of the Pecheneg Despotate when they were revolting against us, guys!  To the south of Kiev lurks Khan Törtogul of "Crimea". To the west, you'll see that the entirety of Crimea is actually part of the Roman Empire. You're not fooling anyone, Törty!  Southwest of Kiev, the Rurikovich's Catholic cousins they don't like to talk about in the old country are kings of Hungary! They're our neighbors, too, but thanks to the giant mountains surrounding their border they're quite ones who hardly ever play music too loud or have a war.  Then there's Croatia. They were being beat up by the Bulgarian Empire left and right for a while— then Iouliana destroyed the Bulgarian Imperial Army and they managed to grabs the bits of the empire we didn't grab first. And like half of Duklja while they were at it. Ragusa's still ours, though, so take that, I guess.  Iceland's a republic! They like to talk about how old their Althingi is. Whatever, guys, our Senate's been around since 753 BC! If I were picking somewhere to set up a merchant republic, I probably would not pick "a desolate volcanic island in the middle of the ocean hundreds of miles away from all the rest of Christendom".  They're giving Gotland a run for its money in the North Sea trade, though. Never say never!  Norway is the giant of Scandinavia. They've eaten Denmark, and now they're fighting wars against the entire Holy Roman Empire since they want that one bit of Norway the HRE stole back, I guess. I wouldn't be surprised if they won since the HRE's been such a hot mess.  I'm pretty sure Sweden's just gonna keep expanding North until they run of pagans to fight. It's like a mini-Kiev!  Songhai dominates West Africa. I don't think all those little pagan countries between them and Mauritania are gonna last too long, guys!  In East Africa, there's two major powers. First up is Nubia! For some reason the map doesn't have their real flag, though, so if somebody could come up with a new one real quick that'd be swell. Anyway they're a Jewish kingdom, and they've been steadily expanding for the past century or so! Right now they're losing a war to their rivals in Somalia, though.  Somalia is a merchant republic, so I guess you can call it the Iceland of Africa.  They have a stranglehold on Middle Eastern trade— except for the Holy Land, which is still being run by the Genoese.  Here's a trade map of the world. Byzantine trade is dominated by Belgorod, Crimea (the good one in Actual Crimea that's our vassal), Venice, and a few Genoese bits here and there. Good thing we set up the Pechenegs and Cumans with their own trade Republics or else probably it'd be all Italians and we wouldn't get to skim off outrageous taxes!  Here's a map of the peoples of Europe. Not too much that's surprising here, although I would have thought there'd be some Portuguese people in at least one of the two Portugals.  And there's their religions. Nothing too surprising here, either-- the Baltic faith has done pretty well since Lithuania's been expanding, and the English aren't really converting to Waldensianism in droves yet. Other than that things pretty much look like you'd think they would! VOTING : Okay, got all that? I'm about to let you guys vote on the policy direction of the Roman Empire, and I want you to make an informed decision. Dad made me study a lot to become empress!: Now, there's no real crisis going on right now, so there's no make or break decision like when we decided if we'd die horribly fighting the Seljuks for a province we didn't even need or instead kick off the Ioulian Golden Age. Good thing you guys were on the ball for that one, huh?: So, for now, you're just going to vote on the general political direction you want the empire to take! I personally support the Old Romans. Wouldn't it be grand to be an empire like the one we've read about all our lives? They want like half the same stuff the New Byzantines want, anyway— a standing army, legal reforms, new construction projects, every doux's head on a pike, etc.  Then again, the New Byzantines got a lot done during Iouliana's reign— and held it together during all the horrible things that happened afterwars! Give yourselves a hand, New Byzantines! So these guys are a-ok with me. My dad liked the Milvians and I'm pretty sure if he hadn't had died he would have stuffed the Senate with a bunch of eparchs. I think it's just a bunch of boring church stuff. Maybe you don't agree, though!  The Komnenians always liked us. I'd like them to support our regime by doing some work for a change, but at least they're very well-behaved. Then there's the Fraternalists! They're brand new, so I'm not really sure what they want? They seem to really hate douxes. But everyone hates douxes. More merchant republics? Well, OK, but Belgorod seems to revolt just as much as the douxes do! They're just more likely to pay their taxes on time the rest of the time.  The New Marians can't agree on their Latin grammar, but they can agree that we need a standing army! Just like half the other parties! Just like the New Byzantines have been doing for decades! They're actually a cross-faction interest group (see: that bit about the other parties) I guess, but you can vote for them if you want to prioritize the army even more than it's already being prioritized. Then there's the True Religion's Advocates In Time Of Rebellion & Strife. They think we should devote ourselves to ending the schism now that we're done destroying one of three Orthodox nations left in the world. By... converting to Catholicism? I want to stick it to Dad, too, but isn't that a bit... extreme? I mean, if you guys win an election, I'll see what I can do, but... hm. OOC: If these guys somehow manage to win, I will try to have a Catholic tutor my heir as soon as possible. This will probably destroy either the Orthodox Church (apparently in PB Orthodoxy can become a Catholic heresy in conditions that I've heard are probably way too easy to get?) or the Byzantine Empire in general. It's like a fun coin flip! One time like two expansions ago I managed to flip England from Catholic to Orthodox and back to Catholic once without too many problems, anyway! Icon img tags for your Senatorial convenience, please include them in your votes: code:
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Feb 22, 2014 11:22
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Komnenians As a Komnenian I think our party needs a little renovation. It is one thing to party until we drop dead, but we kinda need to a bit more than that. I move that we support the removal of the Doux's and replace them with Komnenian family members loyal to the family and Empire rather than replacing them with priests or merchant republics. Even if we get a few bad eggs as time goes on, atleast the majority of the Doux's will be loyal to the throne. Hell, we could even begin to implement an Elective Monarchy safe in the knowledge that the Komnenian family won't be lost. So, Doux's to Komnenian! That is what our party should support. Since we might need to do this: Voting for: Komnenians Lord Windy fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 11:38
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(This Empress' character seems the almost-obnoxiously chipper kind - intentional? Interesting either way.) If I understand what you are asking, Empress, I of course desire you to follow the advice of the Old Romans. And, of course, the more important questions of policy, I supplied my answers for earlier. Also, ally with Kiev. We need close, strong allies, and the two Orthodox nations left in Europe should stick together. Maybe see if Hungary or Croatia could be persuaded too, though of course Croatia is rightfully our territory. Flesnolk fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 11:46
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My father told me, until his dying day, that Kaisarios was the greatest emperor we've seen in generations. He insisted that only through faith would the Empire be restored. I am almost thankful that he passed before illness took the Emperor, because it would have truly wounded him to see such a staunch defender of the church--- the "hand of God on earth", as he was fond of saying--- die so young. I do not have the same faith my father did. Priests can be subverted just as easily as nobles. But I do agree with him on one thing. The Komnenoi are a blessing to our empire, and we must strengthen their position at any cost. We must cast down these Douxes who shatter the unity of the Empire, and in their place situate those of the royal bloodline. Only in this way shall we be restored and unity reestablished within the Empire.
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Feb 22, 2014 11:48
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I agree with Senator Flesnolk's suggestion that key is to have less influential vassals, and less vassals. Vassals? No, that is too feudal and Frankish a term. I hereby propose in addition we defer to the proper terminology; The ruler of a province , such as Gallia, Hispania and Dalmatia, will have the position of governor. Perhaps we can offer the self-styled kings of the west a position as our vassal, and then inform them of their true title and role? Ally with Kiev, subjugate the Armenians of Cilicia for their own protection, and restore the lost provinces piecemeal, pursuing which seems the most opportune first.
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Feb 22, 2014 12:39
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We should continue this process of Modernization.
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Feb 22, 2014 12:52
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Rincewind posted:OOC: If these guys somehow manage to win, I will try to have a Catholic tutor my heir as soon as possible. This will probably destroy either the Orthodox Church (apparently in PB Orthodoxy can become a Catholic heresy in conditions that I've heard are probably way too easy to get?) or the Byzantine Empire in general. It's like a fun coin flip! One time like two expansions ago I managed to flip England from Catholic to Orthodox and back to Catholic once without too many problems, anyway! This has to happen. Full stop.
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Feb 22, 2014 12:59
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The nobles only look after their own gain and the patricians betray us the moment they see a glimmer of a chance to stop paying their taxes. When will you finally wake up and see that the greatest ally to the Empire is the Holy Church?
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Feb 22, 2014 13:14
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Tevery Best posted:
Agree
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Feb 22, 2014 13:18
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Old Romans Conquer everything. Everything.
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Feb 22, 2014 13:30
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YF-23 posted:The nobles only look after their own gain and the patricians betray us the moment they see a glimmer of a chance to stop paying their taxes. When will you finally wake up and see that the greatest ally to the Empire is the Holy Catholic Church? You seem to have missed a word there, no need to thank me.
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Feb 22, 2014 13:32
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Lord Windy posted:
Do we get to kick people out? I vote we do that, or that he gets no drinks and only gets the bad gyros no-one else wants. Either works really. Also I don't see why we would want to be Catholic. We're the real church and the other lot, like that pope? What the hell, you know. I don't like the idea of having to bow to some italian or God forbid someone from the barbarian lands. Also we should ally with Kiev posthaste. Don't we have any branch families to marry them into, gods dammit? Have more babies!
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Feb 22, 2014 13:34
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Considering the amount of opportunities we had to completely screw the realm up with all those regencies and considering we didn't gently caress it up at all, I think supporting us New Byzantines would probably be the best course of action. Let's face it, not much is going to change anyway. What do you think is going to happen? Some sort of scourge just appearing out of nowhere and running roughshod over Europe?
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Feb 22, 2014 13:49
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Hold on, has no one else noticed that the new Emperor is a woman?!  Say what you want about Saint Dragonslayer; that people who were called to his chambers were never seen again,that he consorted with heretics, that his mother conceived him with the devil after Alexios was castrated ect ect, but at least he wasn't a woman! ( I know some lunatics say Ioulian the great was a woman, but the Bulgar Slayer is clearly shown leading armies and killing generals in personal combat on his victory arches  )Anyway, I second the motion of putting proper, loyal, Komnenian men into power, it's what Alexios would have wanted (the good one, not the incompetent Eunuch).
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Feb 22, 2014 13:55
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Ghetto Prince posted:(Stuff) Boo this Senator! Boo!
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Feb 22, 2014 13:58
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Finally! In less time than Alexander the Great had for a life, Basileus Kaisarios showed what an Emperor willing to truly make a stand for the faith can do! All the parties in the Senate hate the Douxes, but Only an emperor as zealous as a Milvian has gone about banishing and stripping titles from rebellious Doux. If you want to get poo poo done, join the Milvians!
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Feb 22, 2014 14:14
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Stay the course. Any uncertainty and upheaval and there are powerful threats to destroy the empire, both from within and outside.
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Feb 22, 2014 14:31
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I like the idea of allying with our buddies up in Kiev. That way, we can team up against the Turks and maybe retake Jerusalem in a century or so. That'd be nice. 
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Feb 22, 2014 14:37
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We're neither in a time of rebellion nor strife, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared.
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Feb 22, 2014 14:45
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