Regalingualius posted:Epic Games settles with FTC for half a billion dollars over claims of exploiting child Fortnite players and tricking players into making unwanted purchases in Fortnite’s in-game shop For context, this is the biggest such fine from the FTC, ever, and is almost double the amount of money they're believed to have made off the practice. It's also around an eighth of their annual profits.
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Dec 19, 2022 19:56
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So is that the first time a big megacorp has ever been fined an amount that was actually appropriate for the level of harm they were doing instead of a tiny slap on the wrist fine? Though only an eighth of their annual profits still seems too low.
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Dec 19, 2022 20:08
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:So is that the first time a big megacorp has ever been fined an amount that was actually appropriate for the level of harm they were doing instead of a tiny slap on the wrist fine? I'm happy the FTC is fining them that much. This is a shot across the bow at every other corporation that is being investigated and believes it can negotiate its penalty down to pennies on the dollar.
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Dec 19, 2022 20:12
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Discendo Vox posted:For context, this is the biggest such fine from the FTC, ever, and is almost double the amount of money they're believed to have made off the practice. It's also around an eighth of their annual profits. If you amortize over the duration it's been a problem, it's a very small amount of their yearly revenue.
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Dec 19, 2022 20:12
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I'd wondered what the deal was with Epic introducing "cabined" accounts that basically cannot do anything other than queue for a game until they have a verified birthdate. No purchases, no chat of any kind, no marketing customizations, down to not allowing choosing their own display name (and if the account had one, it got removed). I thought those were a good idea and also clearly necessary to comply with COPPA, just seemed unusual to happen all of a sudden with no advance notice. This explains that entirely.
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Dec 19, 2022 20:29
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Shooting Blanks posted:I'm happy the FTC is fining them that much. This is a shot across the bow at every other corporation that is being investigated and believes it can negotiate its penalty down to pennies on the dollar. Supposedly, they also mention taking issue with the policy of “if you chargeback, we’ll lock you out of your entire account in retaliation” that Epic and many other online businesses have, which could be much larger in ramifications if it actually goes anywhere.
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Dec 19, 2022 20:44
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Regalingualius posted:Supposedly, they also mention taking issue with the policy of “if you chargeback, we’ll lock you out of your entire account in retaliation” that Epic and many other online businesses have, which could be much larger in ramifications if it actually goes anywhere. Can confirm; this was common as hell when I worked at Blizzard some years back. Unsure if it's still in place.
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Dec 19, 2022 21:12
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:So is that the first time a big megacorp has ever been fined an amount that was actually appropriate for the level of harm they were doing instead of a tiny slap on the wrist fine? No, this is the largest fine for this kind of privacy violation by the FTC, which is prominently being much more aggressive under current leadership than it's been in decades. And it's twice the amount of money they'd made off of the violative practice, and an eighth of their annual profits is absolutely something the company notices. The point of such fines is not to somehow drive the company out of business, it's to punish the practice and keep the company and other companies from doing it in the future.
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Dec 19, 2022 21:32
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Regalingualius posted:Supposedly, they also mention taking issue with the policy of “if you chargeback, we’ll lock you out of your entire account in retaliation” that Epic and many other online businesses have, which could be much larger in ramifications if it actually goes anywhere. I hope it does go places. As part of the settlement, Epic made changes to their policy and started unbanning accounts that were banned solely for chargebacks about 3 months ago. Now if they get a chargeback, they'll start removing items and v-bucks they can associate with that transaction, and if it's beyond the normal refund time they won't remove the item but will put you in v-buck debt lol. They'll also remove your abillity to add funds with anything other than fortnite v-buck cards for a year after the 2nd chargeback. These are all better than chargeback=ban.
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Dec 19, 2022 21:32
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Question: Where does the money actually go, who benefits and what is that cash used for when the FTC calls you to task and you owe them half a billion dollars? Like, what's the significance?
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Dec 19, 2022 23:01
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Regalingualius posted:Epic Games settles with FTC for half a billion dollars over claims of exploiting child Fortnite players and tricking players into making unwanted purchases in Fortnite’s in-game shop
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Dec 19, 2022 23:11
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wizard2 posted:Question: Where does the money actually go, who benefits and what is that cash used for when the FTC calls you to task and you owe them half a billion dollars? Like, what's the significance?
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Dec 19, 2022 23:14
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wizard2 posted:Question: Where does the money actually go, who benefits and what is that cash used for when the FTC calls you to task and you owe them half a billion dollars? Like, what's the significance? 275$ million in penalties to the US Treasury as general revenues, $245 million in refunds to people harmed by the practices. In practice most regulatory penalties are sent to the US treasury as general funds to avoid the regulatory agency having a perverse incentive.
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Dec 19, 2022 23:37
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Good, now do Roblox next
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Dec 19, 2022 23:47
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Regalingualius posted:Supposedly, they also mention taking issue with the policy of “if you chargeback, we’ll lock you out of your entire account in retaliation” that Epic and many other online businesses have, which could be much larger in ramifications if it actually goes anywhere. Lol SA has the same policy.
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Dec 19, 2022 23:49
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Most businesses have that policy. The difference is one is "we don't want your business anymore" and the other is "we're stealing back your $400 game library."
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Dec 19, 2022 23:58
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MrMidnight posted:Good, now do Roblox next It would unravel at an atomic level, god willing
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Dec 20, 2022 00:09
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Bobfromsales posted:Most businesses have that policy. Yeah, I work for a big toy company and if someone buys from us and issues a chargeback we block them from ordering from us again, unless they decide to pay back what they owe. Personally I don't see the problem with that, but then we're not blocking people from playing with their toys when we block them, unlike banning an Epic or Steam account.
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Dec 20, 2022 00:18
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MrMidnight posted:Good, now do Roblox next And all the mobile games companies that do the same thing (I have no idea if Roblox is mobile or not)
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Dec 20, 2022 00:34
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Bobfromsales posted:Most businesses have that policy. Yeah if you're doing a chargeback you're almost certainly already ending business on bad terms, so people don't really care about getting blacklisted because why would you buy from them again? I don't think Fortnite is unique either; I think most games with microtransactions work the same way. Like, if you get banned in Final Fantasy 14, wouldn't you also "lose" any cosmetics on that account that you paid for?
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Dec 20, 2022 01:20
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mycot posted:Yeah if you're doing a chargeback you're almost certainly already ending business on bad terms, so people don't really care about getting blacklisted because why would you buy from them again? As of a few months ago final fantasy xiv overhauled it's shop system to track and reclaim fraudulently purchased in game items instead of just straight out banning, or doing nothing to the accounts involved.
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Dec 20, 2022 01:41
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The aptly named Proletariat is the latest Activision Blizzard studio to unionize. https://twitter.com/WeArePWA_CWA/status/1607760466721525762 https://kotaku.com/wow-dragonflight-activision-blizzard-proletariat-union-1849931437
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Dec 27, 2022 19:07
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quote:The Proletariat Workers Alliance would be unique among gaming unions for representing all non-management staff at the studio, rather than just quality assurance staff as is the case at Raven Software, Blizzard Albany, and unionization efforts currently underway at Microsoft’s Bethesda studios. Interesting! They actually have the programmers and whatnot too, a group that really rarely touches union stuff.
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Dec 27, 2022 19:15
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Big yeehaw
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Dec 27, 2022 19:17
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Hoorah
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Dec 27, 2022 19:18
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Interesting! They actually have the programmers and whatnot too, a group that really rarely touches union stuff. A really cool development. Working at a place adjacent to blizzard, i would love for more union representation in the technical staff. Tech staff is not more important, but threats of strike would mean much more immediate damage like server outages including the all important in-game store rather than just "next game will probably come out slower/be not as good."
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Dec 29, 2022 08:56
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Speaking of cool developments. https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1610336276271751170
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Jan 3, 2023 19:10
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The Info that Atlus and Square Enix are working on lots of stuff in 2023 and have a lot o announcements lined up both intrigues and concerns me cause it feels like they are getting distracted by a lot of side projects with other companies that have little to do with core gaming lately (especially Square Enix) and that they could just mean stuff that their producers are enthused about pushing on JRPG fans and not necessarily again core gaming stuff I would be interested in. I'm still interested in Japanese multimedia output even into my 30s, particularly RPG type stuff including everytning from Triple A CG style like Final Fantasy or anime style like say Dragon Quest or Fire Emblem but have grown to intensely loath Japanese producer mentality and culture over the last decade or so and their get rich quick type thinking that has led to way too many pointless mobile game titles and excessive merchandising and what feels like steering resources away from core gaming. Like almost more of an intense dislike than I have for the Bobby Koticks out there. Its a similar sort of arrogance that makes it so I cant even take new years announcements like "we are expecting to announce a lot of stuff in 2023" with any particular enthusiasm until I see what that actually entails. Kale fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jan 3, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 19:15
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Kale posted:The Info that Atlus and Square Enix are working on lots of stuff in 2023 and have a lot o announcements lined up both intrigues and concerns me cause it feels like they are getting distracted by a lot of side projects with other companies that have little to do with core gaming lately (especially Square Enix) and that they could just mean stuff that their producers are enthused about pushing on JRPG fans and not necessarily again core gaming stuff I would be interested in. So you're upset that companies are attempting to make money, and focusing their efforts where they'll better be able to continue employing their staff and maintaining shareholder value? Because you feel entitled to them providing you cheap entertainment in the form you would like instead of some marginally different form?
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Jan 3, 2023 20:31
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I mean if you want to make fun of S-E for trying to make money the NFT thing is right there
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Jan 3, 2023 20:33
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Kale posted:The Info that Atlus and Square Enix are working on lots of stuff in 2023 and have a lot o announcements lined up both intrigues and concerns me cause it feels like they are getting distracted by a lot of side projects with other companies that have little to do with core gaming lately (especially Square Enix) and that they could just mean stuff that their producers are enthused about pushing on JRPG fans and not necessarily again core gaming stuff I would be interested in. i don't think the mobile games or limited edition re-releases are pulling huge amounts of staff off any of their major franchises e: thought this was the rpg thread. mostly just lurk this for news so apologies!
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Jan 3, 2023 20:42
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For Japanese devs for a long time the whole niche of mobile games was that you can put them together on a shoestring budget with a cheap skeleton crew and milk a ton of profit out of a few big fat whales. Usually with tie-ins to pre-existing franchises because that makes you more likely to hook a megafan of the series and get them to start whaling. Low investment for moderate returns makes for very high profit margins, albeit with limited reach. It's a great bet because the returns are good and the money you're risking is extremely low, even if 3 out of 4 of your games fail to get enough players and die in the first year. But after Genshin Impact made record billions of dollars the market started to turn. Now more developers are trying to follow in GI's footsteps, making high budget high production value mobile games to try and access that huge audience of not-previously-mobile-gamer casuals that Genshin landed, while still using all the same aggressive mobile-game monetization / manipulation tactics (which were super effective and profitable for GI in part because it was using them on a big audience of teens etc who weren't previously aware of them). RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jan 3, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 20:50
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Kale posted:I'm still interested in Japanese multimedia output even into my 30s, particularly RPG type stuff including everytning from Triple A CG style like Final Fantasy or anime style like say Dragon Quest or Fire Emblem but have grown to intensely loath Japanese producer mentality and culture what insight do you have on "japanese producer mentality and culture"? how would you define it based on your industry experience? how is "japanese producer mentality and culture" different than game publishers from other regions? RPATDO_LAMD posted:But after Genshin Impact made record billions of dollars the market started to turn. Genshin is a chinese game published by a chinese company.
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Jan 3, 2023 21:45
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SE seems as focused on core Final Fantasy stuff as ever to me. In the next 14-15 months they’re presumably launching XVI, Rebirth and the next XIV expansion right?
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Jan 3, 2023 21:57
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:what insight do you have on "japanese producer mentality and culture"? how would you define it based on your industry experience? how is "japanese producer mentality and culture" different than game publishers from other regions? My point is that this Chinese game by a Chinese company made waves in the mobile game industry and is affecting development strategies in other countries and other companies. Chinese, Japanese and Korean developers all saw it and took note. Weirdly there are no western copycats that I know of, probably just because there were so few western-developed gacha games in the first place. RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jan 3, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 22:02
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:My point is that this Chinese game by a Chinese company made waves in the mobile game industry and is affecting development strategies in other countries and other companies. Chinese, Japanese and Korean developers all saw it and took note. The common knowledge is that gacha doesn't monetize as well in the US or EU market as well as it does in Japan and China. So titles that rely on heavy gacha for monetization are harder to pitch in the US.
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Jan 3, 2023 22:15
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:My point is that this Chinese game by a Chinese company made waves in the mobile game industry and is affecting development strategies in other countries and other companies. Chinese, Japanese and Korean developers all saw it and took note.   
Assepoester fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jan 3, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 22:17
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F.D. Signifier posted:There are a billion western gacha games, but they all seem to be card battlers, wrestling, marvel, star wars, etc. The main difference seems to be if people include loot boxes as a type of gacha, in which case they're everywhere in western games already. Or Fortnite type rotating limited shops, which is fairly close the Genshin and most mobile game's rotating banners even if they don't offer any mechanical differences like Crash Team Racing Nitro fueled
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Jan 3, 2023 22:22
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isn't the gacha stuff in FIFA a giant money machine?
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Jan 3, 2023 22:26
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:My point is that this Chinese game by a Chinese company made waves in the mobile game industry and is affecting development strategies in other countries and other companies. Chinese, Japanese and Korean developers all saw it and took note. Did they? How is Genshin's monetization model different than the thousands of other wildly successful gacha whale games that preceded it?
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Jan 3, 2023 22:27
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