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in america i hear they eat their own doo doo and drink their own pee pee
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May 13, 2019 21:37
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Tree Goat posted:in america i hear they eat their own doo doo and drink their own pee pee Bear Grylls is British
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May 13, 2019 21:48
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Unreal_One posted:Bear Grylls is British So are Americans. QED.
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May 13, 2019 21:51
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Ardennes posted:A big complaint in Tuscany nowadays (from locals) is that the quality of food seems to be declining. I don’t know personally if that is the case but it is a heavy charge from Italians. To be fair, a huge proportional of people always think everything is lovely and that food isn't like it used to be, yada yada. But yeah they're probably right if "Tuscany" to them means "San Gimignano". Tuscany still has an absolute ton of towns that are almost completely off the tourist grid. Like, I spent a full day in Colle di Val d'Elsa, and never heard anyone not speak Italian. It could also be with a touch of racism too. I don't know how prevalent it is, but I also spent a day in Castelfiorentino and like 90% of the people I saw in the streets were either Turkish/Arab/Somali, or well over retirement age. Or it could be in terms of the "elderly only" villages; a fair number of Italian countryside cities are like that -- the young population has been draining out of the villages for like 20 years. There's probably a cool map somewhere with that exact data. Or, I guess, it could be true... but I have my doubts given how much better cuisine is, in general, than it was 20 years ago.
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May 13, 2019 22:28
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https://adventuresinmapping.com/2019/01/29/40-years-of-nautical-piracy/ Check out this cool interactive map of piracy I found on this webpage:  click the map if you want to zoom in and get details of every piracy incident in the last 40 years: 
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May 14, 2019 00:50
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Extremely cool map. I had no idea how bad the ivory coast had it. The Indies and the Gulf of Aden, sure, but I guess I expected Nigeria to have an advanced enough navy to make stuff like this gently caress off. You would think the west would send some ships to ensure their investment isn't lost.
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May 14, 2019 06:52
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Platystemon posted:Why would you poo poo on something of “moderate quality”? It's mediocre to me, maybe not to them. I don't understand those people who eat at McDonald's several times a week, but I'm not going to start raging at the concept of eating fast food every now and then, either.
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May 14, 2019 07:04
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Squalid posted:https://adventuresinmapping.com/2019/01/29/40-years-of-nautical-piracy/ it'd be very interesting to see how this correlates with piracy about 500 years ago
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May 14, 2019 07:24
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Squalid posted:Check out this cool interactive map of piracy I found on this webpage: That's awesome. I see some of the 'piracy' is in fact mutiny, or at least that's the case for the pirate event southeast of Hawaii ( https://nation.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=566e9e817af640958a3a7185a63ee154 ) Also a fair number of events are wayyyyy off their correct location, like the Yemeni fishing boat hijacked by Somalis near Guam ( https://nation.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=566e9e817af640958a3a7185a63ee154 ) which should have been near Aden. E: Actually a ton of the ones that are out there by themselves are way wrong, like off southern Chile where it should be off Lima ( https://nation.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=566e9e817af640958a3a7185a63ee154 ) Saladman fucked around with this message at 10:41 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 10:35
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The one in Siberia is a Chinese merchant vessel suspected of smuggling leaving port without permission, and getting sunk by a warship killing seven.
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May 14, 2019 10:45
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ELO Musk posted:Extremely cool map. Nigeria has issues. It is fighting Boko Haram and other groups in its North East, mostly incompetently. In its southern areas (the site of previous rebellions/civil wars there is some general lawlessness, where people steal fuel from pipelines. I think I remember a story from the past year where some westerners who were working on offshore oil rigs were taken hostage. Nigeria has the biggest economy in Africa, and Lagos has a lot of money, but its spread super unevenly. Nigeria literally does not control large swathes of its own countryside, let along the sea.
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May 14, 2019 12:09
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Count Roland posted:Nigeria has issues. It is fighting Boko Haram and other groups in its North East, mostly incompetently. In its southern areas (the site of previous rebellions/civil wars there is some general lawlessness, where people steal fuel from pipelines. You know, I'm reading about Nigeria now and it's pretty unbelievable to me that a country with that kind of GDP can have daily, frequent power outages in its own New York or massive potholes on frequently used roads that cause undue, terrible gridlock in that same city. I have come away from the super cool pirate map with knowledge that depresses me. A pox on you, Pirate Map! A pox!
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May 14, 2019 15:09
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ELO Musk posted:You know, I'm reading about Nigeria now and it's pretty unbelievable to me that a country with that kind of GDP can have daily, frequent power outages in its own New York or massive potholes on frequently used roads that cause undue, terrible gridlock in that same city. I have come away from the super cool pirate map with knowledge that depresses me. A pox on you, Pirate Map! A pox! Any hot takes as to why this is?
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May 14, 2019 16:04
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Saladman posted:That's awesome. I see some of the 'piracy' is in fact mutiny, or at least that's the case for the pirate event southeast of Hawaii ( https://nation.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=566e9e817af640958a3a7185a63ee154 )
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May 14, 2019 16:13
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May 14, 2019 17:02
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Count Roland posted:Any hot takes as to why this is? Hmm, extreme corruption that is aided by western powers happy to turn a blind eye to it if they get to loot unimpeded? That the optimism of the people isn’t a happy accident but rather a device of those same rich shitlords to curb demands for improvement? The country is so diverse due to colonial border schemes that it’s impossible to prevent conflict? These are my guesses.
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May 14, 2019 17:18
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Jerry Cotton posted:So are Americans. QED. Look I can put up with a lot of insults and scorn for being an American, but this is taking things too far.
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May 14, 2019 17:35
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ELO Musk posted:Hmm, extreme corruption that is aided by western powers happy to turn a blind eye to it if they get to loot unimpeded? That the optimism of the people isn’t a happy accident but rather a device of those same rich shitlords to curb demands for improvement? The country is so diverse due to colonial border schemes that it’s impossible to prevent conflict? These are my guesses. 
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May 14, 2019 17:45
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Family Values posted:Look I can put up with a lot of insults and scorn for being an American, but this is taking things too far. Oh yeah? Why don't you throw some tea into the ocean about it, then 
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May 14, 2019 17:46
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Jerry Cotton posted:Oh yeah? Why don't you throw some tea into the ocean about it, then But I like tea, why would I go and waste it... oh fuuuuuck.
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May 14, 2019 17:47
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ELO Musk posted:The country is so diverse due to colonial border schemes that it’s impossible to prevent conflict? 
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May 14, 2019 17:51
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I know ethnic strife is often blamed on western powers, but, isn't it kinda hosed up that the default thought is that Europeans should have created 100's of ethno-states? Those aren't exactly great places either and we would justifiably call someone a racist for suggesting they do the same in a western democracy. Maybe we shouldn't be letting racist terrorists off the hook decades after their country was formed.
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May 14, 2019 22:31
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Pook Good Mook posted:I know ethnic strife is often blamed on western powers, but, isn't it kinda hosed up that the default thought is that Europeans should have created 100's of ethno-states? Those aren't exactly great places either and we would justifiably call someone a racist for suggesting they do the same in a western democracy. Maybe we shouldn't be letting racist terrorists off the hook decades after their country was formed. I don't think anyone is being let off the hook. Nor would I leap to assuming ethnic separatism is racist if we're talking a put upon minority my dude. Like imagine thinking "Boy the Irish sure are racist, wanting out of the UK and all".
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May 14, 2019 22:37
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a lot of the time the strife is in part motivated by the colonial power choosing one ethnic and/or religious group to be their guys and giving disproportionate power to them and the imbalance not magically disappearing on independence. Also sometimes the French just randomly drop in and train and arm one group's militias to massacre the other group something that tends to cause long lasting resentment.
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May 14, 2019 22:42
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Pook Good Mook posted:I know ethnic strife is often blamed on western powers, but, isn't it kinda hosed up that the default thought is that Europeans should have created 100's of ethno-states? Those aren't exactly great places either and we would justifiably call someone a racist for suggesting they do the same in a western democracy. Maybe we shouldn't be letting racist terrorists off the hook decades after their country was formed. The European countries also did a crazy amount of ethnic cleansing and forced integrations of the people who are now within their modern-day borders in order to create the modern ethnostates, including ethnic cleansing of civilians who had lived in regions for generations and forced assimilations into the majority (and/or strongest) local cultural power. And you do have people, like Gaddafi, calling on Europe to finish the job, for instance by splitting up Switzerland and Belgium and giving the constituent ethnic parts to France/NL/DE/IT.
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May 14, 2019 22:49
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Saladman posted:
Looks like Gaddafi had some good ideas.
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May 14, 2019 23:12
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Rarely are those tensions invented by the colonial power, but taken advantage of? Oh yes. Somehow more infuriatingly it often wasn't even malicious intent. So much of the late British Empire was run by vapid upperclass failsons just absolutely smiling about what good jobs they were doing as they mangled independence processes left and right.
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May 14, 2019 23:41
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Grape posted:Rarely are those tensions invented by the colonial power, but taken advantage of? Oh yes. Likewise, it's maddening when people blame conflict in the ME on "Sykes-Piccot", as if there was no Ottoman Empire prior, nor decades of pogroms and genocides that were 100% independent of European intervention. I collect books from early travelers to the Middle East and have read several dozen others on Google Books, and it's super interesting to see what people like JS Buckingham, Claudius Rich, and Layard wrote at the time. Obviously they are biased to some extent as foreigners, but the universal consensus is that the slow collapse of the Ottoman Empire in the 1800s was a terrible time with no shortage of groups as vile as ISIS. Unfortunately I've never found any similar books by contemporary Ottoman or Arab writers who were on the spot in the Mosul/Sinjar/Lake Van/Urfa area in the early to mid 1800s, but for instance Layard's firsthand accounts of the late 1840s genocide of the Assyrians and Armenians around Lake Van at the hands of Badr Khan Bey are super depressing to read, especially since they presaged even worse to come for the next 70 years. It's also easy to judge in retrospect, like were the results of the Tanzimat an unavoidable disaster? It was reasonably well-meaning too (obviously with the beneficial to-them side-effect of centralizing power in Istanbul), but I don't know how it could have happened otherwise. The Ottomans just completely giving up on the Mosul area wouldn't've resulted in less massacres by any means. Saladman fucked around with this message at 00:25 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 00:21
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Grape posted:Rarely are those tensions invented by the colonial power, but taken advantage of? Oh yes. I think a lot of people overestimate how much Europeans were actively stoking ethnic conflict in their territories. There was definitely some intentional efforts along those lines, but laziness explains so much more. For example in post-colonial Africa a huge portion of political conflict is explained by competition over jobs in the civil service and military. Frequently there were stark tribal and ethnic differences in the distribution of these government jobs at the time of independence, with some groups controlling an extremely disproportionate share, which was often a point of conflict. However this wasn't usually part of a nefarious plot on the part of Europeans to pit the Africans against one another. Most often when the European powers started building up a local administration, they just trained and recruited whoever lived near the colonial capital. The common result was the the indigenous colonial elite would end up skewed disproportionately towards which ever tribe just happened to be closest to the capital, and following independence they would maintain a stranglehold on administration and patronage. Sometimes though the colonial gendarme was recruited from more marginal groups, with the British specifically looking for what they termed "Martial races". For the most part I don't think there was intention to divide the gendarme from the civil servants, or at least it was never consistently applied. Sometimes administrators and gendarme would be recruited in the same place. Still, in many places this patterned resulted in ethnic conflicts between the military and the capital's political elite following independence. In many places these sorts of divisions have proved enduring as patronage networks reinforce the unequal distribution of resources. Some examples of this dynamic would be the conflict in Uganda between Idi Amin, a northern from one of the pastoral tribes on the northern border, and Milton Obote, who uh was also kind of a northerner but who gained power through an alliance with the southern Bugandan royalists, who represented the more sedentary people's who lived around the capital of Kampala. Another example comes from the reoccurring political conflicts in the Republic of the Congo, which has often manifested as a contest between the urban labor unions of Brazzaville dominated by the Lari Kongo people, and an army dominated by northerners of various ethnicities. This is all rather confusing to try and follow as in many African countries its almost impossible even to count ethnicities.
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May 15, 2019 00:34
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Saladman posted:Likewise, it's maddening when people blame conflict in the ME on "Sykes-Piccot", as if there was no Ottoman Empire prior, nor decades of pogroms and genocides that were 100% independent of European intervention. Well yeah, the subtext isn't "European Empires Bad" it's "Empires Bad".
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May 15, 2019 00:36
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also, the Swiss: are they a nation and/or ethnicity? Yea or Nay?
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May 15, 2019 00:38
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Squalid posted:also, the Swiss: are they a nation and/or ethnicity? Yea or Nay? Nay. They are a country founded on the idea of little statelets banding together to not get ruled by surrounding bullies. No real ethnic basis involved in it.
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May 15, 2019 00:40
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Pook Good Mook posted:I know ethnic strife is often blamed on western powers, but, isn't it kinda hosed up that the default thought is that Europeans should have created 100's of ethno-states? Those aren't exactly great places either and we would justifiably call someone a racist for suggesting they do the same in a western democracy. Maybe we shouldn't be letting racist terrorists off the hook decades after their country was formed. lmao
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May 15, 2019 01:05
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It's often harder on the white man.
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May 15, 2019 01:13
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Saladman posted:And you do have people, like Gaddafi, calling on Europe to finish the job, for instance by splitting up Switzerland and Belgium and giving the constituent ethnic parts to France/NL/DE/IT. same and also Brittany
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May 15, 2019 01:32
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Saladman posted:And you do have people, like Gaddafi, calling on Europe to finish the job, for instance by splitting up Switzerland and Belgium and giving the constituent ethnic parts to France/NL/DE/IT. Flanders would make a fine Italian exclave, I agree.
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May 15, 2019 02:08
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Pook Good Mook posted:I know ethnic strife is often blamed on western powers, but, isn't it kinda hosed up that the default thought is that Europeans should have created 100's of ethno-states? Those aren't exactly great places either and we would justifiably call someone a racist for suggesting they do the same in a western democracy. Maybe we shouldn't be letting racist terrorists off the hook decades after their country was formed. Poe’s law etc but this is satirical right? Edit just in case it’s not, the takeaway is that Europeans shouldn’t have drawn borders in Africa at all, also western democracies are already ethnostates and I don’t even know what the last sentence could be referring to. Starks fucked around with this message at 03:24 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 03:13
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Starks posted:also western democracies are already ethnostates Most in Europe, but not as some general rule. Switzerland was already mentioned for instance. And oddly enough the UK itself (though for how long at this rate!).
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May 15, 2019 04:02
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Grape posted:Nay. Perhaps it's not an ethnicity, but nation is certainly arguable for Switzerland, as it is at least the result of an organic process starting in (if I remember correctly) the 14th century. It's not completely free of linguistic strife, but historically speaking most of the internal conflicts were based on religion. It seems fairly stable nowadays. Belgium, on the other hand, was explicitly intended as a nation-state, which ironically became its own undoing by the late twentieth century. By creating it as a Brussels-centric francophone supremacist bourgeois state, it managed to simultaneously alienate Wallonia, with its burgeoning labor movement, and Flanders, where the common people spoke Dutch dialects. Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 11:13 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 07:26
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L'état, C'est Mal.
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May 15, 2019 08:35
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