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In homeworld they were hired to kill you if I remember right. In cataclysm they were there for booty so they didn't really want to waste resources in a fight.
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Jan 20, 2015 14:38
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Gothsheep posted:I was thinking about the raiders. In Homeworld, they never spoke or make any kind of contact at all. They were kind of like this monster race that just appeared and started loving your poo poo up and never said why. In Cataclysm they're downright chatty, though. Actually the Turanic Raiders are still silent. It was the Taiidani Heavy Cruiser at the head of their fleet that spoke, and we've heard the Taiidani speak before.
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Jan 20, 2015 16:39
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PurpleXVI posted:Actually the Turanic Raiders are still silent. It was the Taiidani Heavy Cruiser at the head of their fleet that spoke, and we've heard the Taiidani speak before. Didn't the Turanics speak in Mission 3? They at least implicitly did, because you'd have to say something to pretend to be Support Frigates here to help.
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Jan 20, 2015 17:17
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PurpleXVI posted:Actually the Turanic Raiders are still silent. It was the Taiidani Heavy Cruiser at the head of their fleet that spoke, and we've heard the Taiidani speak before. My guess is that they nicked it while the civil war was raging because Space Pirates.
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Jan 20, 2015 17:19
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PurpleXVI posted:Actually the Turanic Raiders are still silent. It was the Taiidani Heavy Cruiser at the head of their fleet that spoke, and we've heard the Taiidani speak before. You mean the heavy cruiser running Turanic Raider colors? They totally were either sold it by the Taiidan or just outright Raidered it given the Taiidan Empire isn't what it used to be and now may be fair game.
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Jan 20, 2015 17:20
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Koorisch posted:My guess is that they nicked it while the civil war was raging because Space Pirates. It says in the manual that the Taiidani Imperial remnant and the Turanic raiders are close allies. And it's a weird relationship, with the Imperials nominally being in charge, but the Turanic raiders having infrastructure the Imperials can't fight without, and being de facto the stronger member of the alliance. So, a big loud Imperial officer being the leader of a primarily Turanic force makes sense.
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Jan 20, 2015 17:23
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MJ12 posted:Didn't the Turanics speak in Mission 3? They at least implicitly did, because you'd have to say something to pretend to be Support Frigates here to help. Probably faked text-only transmissions.
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Jan 20, 2015 17:38
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Polaron posted:You mean the heavy cruiser running Turanic Raider colors? They totally were either sold it by the Taiidan or just outright Raidered it given the Taiidan Empire isn't what it used to be and now may be fair game. It's called out as being a specifically Imperial cruiser, not just a Taiidani one.
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Jan 20, 2015 18:19
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Imperial by builder and design, not necessarily by operation. It also wouldn't be the last time that game's script screws that distinction up.
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Jan 20, 2015 18:37
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berryjon posted:Imperial by builder and design, not necessarily by operation. Which is why I always found it way easier (and memorable) to think that it's a Turanic Raider talking. Before they actively have a reason to not talk to the Exiles but now they're just another faction out there. The Mimic'd Support Frigates in 3 likely just had mimic'd IFF codes and 'talked' via text or convincingly strung together phrases.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:47
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Going back to Ramming Frigs, I don't think anyone mentioned this, but if you try to ram a beast ship, it'll actually infect the ramming frigate 
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Jan 21, 2015 16:00
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year199X posted:Going back to Ramming Frigs, I don't think anyone mentioned this, but if you try to ram a beast ship, it'll actually infect the ramming frigate And then the Beast has a shiny new ship that's /designed/ to survive incoming fire as it charges a larger ship long enough to make hull contact.
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Jan 21, 2015 17:03
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Hence, why I never use them.
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Jan 21, 2015 17:06
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year199X posted:Going back to Ramming Frigs, I don't think anyone mentioned this, but if you try to ram a beast ship, it'll actually infect the ramming frigate And they can then turn around and infect your ships. Which is why I mentioned them being far more dangerous in the Beast's hands than in the player's. There is literally no reason to ever build them when fighting the Beast. Somtaaw has more interesting toys to spend SUs on anyway.
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Jan 21, 2015 18:00
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Honestly, while they're not very good, ramming frigates can get up to some hilarious shenanigans if you latch enough onto something that isn't The Beast.
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Jan 21, 2015 20:32
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Pumpkinreaper posted:Honestly, while they're not very good, ramming frigates can get up to some hilarious shenanigans if you latch enough onto something that isn't The Beast. What happens if you ram a frigate from opposite directions?
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Jan 21, 2015 20:37
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Xoidanor posted:What happens if you ram a frigate from opposite directions? I want to say physics happens, but thinking about it, I think I may be misremembering.
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Jan 21, 2015 20:42
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What happens if a Beast Ramming Frigate rams the Kuun-Lan? Is it instant infection game over?
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Jan 21, 2015 20:54
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The beast can't infect anything larger than a frigate in multiplayer.
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Jan 21, 2015 20:57
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Broken Box posted:What happens if a Beast Ramming Frigate rams the Kuun-Lan? Is it instant infection game over? No, but it can push the Kuun-Lan out of position, which is annoying. It can also destroy subsystem modules if it connects with one. Getting supply blocked because a Ramming Frigate crunched a supply module is no fun.
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Jan 21, 2015 21:32
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MJ12 posted:Didn't the Turanics speak in Mission 3? They at least implicitly did, because you'd have to say something to pretend to be Support Frigates here to help. I think if you take too long rescuing the Clee-San from the minefield the Turanic fleet (8 or 10 Ion Arrays and a fairly large complement of fighters and corvettes if I recall correctly) that show up talks to you. Yeah there actually is a time limit on that mission, just a generous one.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:57
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Kibayasu posted:I think if you take too long rescuing the Clee-San from the minefield the Turanic fleet (8 or 10 Ion Arrays and a fairly large complement of fighters and corvettes if I recall correctly) that show up talks to you. Yeah there actually is a time limit on that mission, just a generous one. The Casualty posted:No, but it can push the Kuun-Lan out of position, which is annoying. It can also destroy subsystem modules if it connects with one. Getting supply blocked because a Ramming Frigate crunched a supply module is no fun.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:06
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Kibayasu posted:I think if you take too long rescuing the Clee-San from the minefield the Turanic fleet (8 or 10 Ion Arrays and a fairly large complement of fighters and corvettes if I recall correctly) that show up talks to you. Yeah there actually is a time limit on that mission, just a generous one. Is that an instant lose condition, or can you capture the Turanic fleet?
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Jan 22, 2015 01:12
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Captain Bravo posted:Is that an instant lose condition, or can you capture the Turanic fleet? I believe you can. I have vague memories of at least trying to capture the array frigates and having them in my fleet for awhile before coming to the conclusion that they kind of suck.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:19
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Captain Bravo posted:Is that an instant lose condition, or can you capture the Turanic fleet? It's not an instant lose. If you leave the Kuun-Lan in its starting position you might have a two or three minutes before they reach you; I want to say they warp in some 15-20 kilometres down and to the right or left of where you hyperspace in. On Very Easy and Easy they aren't even a threat thanks to your buffed ships and their nerfed ships but if you manage to take that long on Hard or Very Hard, and maybe Normal, you're going to die. As for capturing them, I forget if there's some prerequisite research to even be able to capture but, while I'll leave the details until the mission where capturing enemy ships is formally introduced, capturing ships works a bit differently in Cataclysm so it just wouldn't be feasible except probably on Very Easy and Easy. Though I'm sure there's some Homeworld savant out there that could do it.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:33
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From the looks of how powerful missiles are on your strike craft have the Turanic missile corvettes been made worthwhile in Cataclysm? For how long it takes to pick up heavier firepower of your own it seems that might make a decent intermediary ship if so.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:35
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Well, people have said multiple times that the Somtaaw ships outclass anything else, so a Turanic vessel probably won't be that great. I was just wondering about the Ion Frigates, since the game hasn't let you build anything better than a fighter so far, so gaining some moderately powerful frigates on Mission 3 seems like it might be pretty helpful.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:41
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Captain Bravo posted:Well, people have said multiple times that the Somtaaw ships outclass anything else, so a Turanic vessel probably won't be that great. I was just wondering about the Ion Frigates, since the game hasn't let you build anything better than a fighter so far, so gaining some moderately powerful frigates on Mission 3 seems like it might be pretty helpful. Except every mission till now has been designed around having Acolyte swarms, bigger ships have just not been necessary. Which is actually something of a mission design flaw as you are using what amounts to slowly upgraded Acolytes for 5 missions, the same combat ship you start the game with, thankfully we start to see more variety in the next Mission. Also berryjon something you could have done that mission to speed up Acolyte production was use ACV production, you can build both at the same time, something I tend to forget after the production Queue in HW2.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:54
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Broken Box posted:From the looks of how powerful missiles are on your strike craft have the Turanic missile corvettes been made worthwhile in Cataclysm? For how long it takes to pick up heavier firepower of your own it seems that might make a decent intermediary ship if so. The Turanic Missile corvette is the same as it's always been: a corvette class ship with anti-fighter missiles. The Acolyte's missiles are more along the lines of 'Bomber Torpedoes.' Thus as usual, they're not worth the capture.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:16
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Broken Box posted:From the looks of how powerful missiles are on your strike craft have the Turanic missile corvettes been made worthwhile in Cataclysm? For how long it takes to pick up heavier firepower of your own it seems that might make a decent intermediary ship if so. If they're in large groups (we're talking 10-12) then they get scary in a hurry. Missile Corvettes are your bane in harder modes since they can shred your perfect formations of 4-star acolytes with ease if you're not careful. Even ACVS need to watch out since they don't have the speed of Acolytes to dodge some missiles. Missile Corvettes never really had a chance to shine in the original Homeworld, but like most everything in Cataclysm, they've gotten some upgrades.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:53
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I'm a bit ahead on my recordings, so have a bonus update!
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Jan 22, 2015 06:29
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berryjon posted:I'm a bit ahead on my recordings, so have a bonus update! Did you just.... OMG. That's beautiful.
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Jan 22, 2015 06:55
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How very Hiigaran of you, berryjon.
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Jan 22, 2015 07:01
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Ah the Hive Frigate, what happens when you have the Somtaaw look at the Drone Frigate of HW1 and wonder what using Kadeshi Swarmer tech would do for the idea. Beautiful things as it turns out, will I guess see them in action next mission. Also gently caress Leeches, you need Advanced Sensors to actually see the little bastards
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Jan 22, 2015 07:09
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You've got a broken subtitle at 2:04. Man I love how big the first cutscene makes the Kuun-Lan feel. During actual gameplay you don't really get a great sense of scale for most things but something about this mission's cutscene in particular really does a great job. Also, you're losing your ACVs to the minefield because you're keeping them in ACV mode. They maneuver and dodge much more slowly when linked and a single mine kills two craft instead of just one. EDIT: A nice touch I liked is how there is non-harvestable dust formed into a sort of "flower" shape around the slipgate, like it causes gravitational effects you can't actually see. Polaron fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 07:17
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Nice of your to honor the traditions of the first game. From this mission forward, I have a sentinel shield up around the mothership at all times.
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Jan 22, 2015 07:25
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Polaron posted:You've got a broken subtitle at 2:04. Mines are also easier to clear with just a big group in sphere formation as they'll move with the mines rather than toward them. And I was waiting for the next mission but that is why capturing stuff just isn't a thing you do in this game, particularly how you can't capture things unless you have the Support Units. Come to think of it, that Heavy Cruiser might be the only viable capture target in the entire game, where it actually is better than the ships you can build at the moment compared to their SU cost. I also might be remembering incorrectly but I think destroying that Heavy Cruiser triggers the base fleet to attack which was a fun thing to learn when I was still a couple Nav Points away from the slipgate. Might have just not caught an interceptor squadron or something and can't remember though.
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Jan 22, 2015 07:29
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One note about Sentinel's that sort of throws a wrench into them is that you want to have 12 of them for maximum shield coverage. Any less and the shield can get truncated, exposing a portion of the ship. You can sort of see it when the sentinels are setting up around the Caal-Shto, it appears that the shield clips through part of the engine housing. The shield would do nothing there since no shots are hitting it before hitting the Caal-Shto. It's interesting for a game this early to have some pretty advanced behind-the-scenes stuff. The shields work by intercepting shots and for the most part hitboxes in Homeworld games are the models of the ships themselves. Also each individual 'polygon' of the shield is just that: individual, when one facing is depleted the others stay up. The only time the whole thing collapses is if the majority of the sentinels are killed or they're ordered to do something else. I always found it nifty and have continued to wonder how other games can get their shielding so wrong when Cataclysm managed it so long ago. Yeah, now that I think of it I'm pretty sure this is the best capture target in the game. It never occurred to me though because I just covered it in 12 or so leeches and let it die while I cleaned out the mines and killed the interceptor+minelayer spawn.
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Jan 22, 2015 07:51
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Do you get 100% return when you decomission a ship? If so is there nothing preventing you from just building a fleet of leeches and having them all turn the enemy cruiser into delicious delicious RUs?
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Jan 22, 2015 07:55
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Kurieg posted:Do you get 100% return when you decomission a ship? If so is there nothing preventing you from just building a fleet of leeches and having them all turn the enemy cruiser into delicious delicious RUs? Time. Doing that is extremely slow. Plus, you're never really hurting for RUs in this game. It can be funny to eat an enemy's resourcers in multiplayer, though. Speaking of, berryjon you have so many workers. I'm pretty sure if you retired half of them and the second harvester you could have enough room for another frigate or two at least. I'm also curious to see how long you manage to keep that heavy cruiser around, given how much of a liability it can be (it's the only ship above frigate-sized that the Beast can infest). I managed to get the thing to the last mission once and I must have beaten this game a dozen times.
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Jan 22, 2015 08:47
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