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Plots are hard. I want to run a decent length 13A game in the base setting before I get too far into designing my 22nd age stuff, but I'm having difficulty coming up with a plot that would require going to a lot of locations in the setting that's not just a "Go collect all the [X]". But then again, maybe that's all I really need? Been writing too many short game/one-shot plots and lost my touch on the big picture.
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Feb 5, 2014 23:23
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Plots are hard. I want to run a decent length 13A game in the base setting before I get too far into designing my 22nd age stuff, but I'm having difficulty coming up with a plot that would require going to a lot of locations in the setting that's not just a "Go collect all the [X]". But then again, maybe that's all I really need? You know, the two ongoing campaigns I know of, the one I'm in and Ironicus', both have a "Go collect all the [X]." This is more of an idle observation than anything substantial. I don't think we've ever been west of Glitterhaegan.
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Feb 5, 2014 23:27
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Plots are hard. I want to run a decent length 13A game in the base setting before I get too far into designing my 22nd age stuff, but I'm having difficulty coming up with a plot that would require going to a lot of locations in the setting that's not just a "Go collect all the [X]". But then again, maybe that's all I really need? Nothin' wrong with collecting all of the plot coupons to turn in for a climax, people do it because it works. Also it's nice to have a general idea of how far along in your quest you are.
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Feb 5, 2014 23:49
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My group's plot is pretty simple, they're magic detectives, and they're hot on the trail of an evil alchemist who has been killing people to make some kind of a potion of immortality. It's taken them from place to place on his trail, and even when they nab this guy, their next case might take them even farther, possibly into the personal affairs of the Icons themselves as they get more powerful and influential with their successes.
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Feb 5, 2014 23:50
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And mine have become a roving gang of investigator-architects. They follow leads and build buildings. Sends them wherever I fancy running a session, provided their nemesis is always one step ahead....
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Feb 5, 2014 23:58
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CaptCommy posted:So, if we're talking about how the montage is written in the organized play packets, there actually shouldn't be any dice rolling at all. Just gonna quote the blurb from the packet, let me know if this isn't kosher: e: also their examples sound beyond idiotic Jackard fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 04:35
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Jackard posted:I've seen this used before, it felt very forced and played out strangely. Would not recommend. Montages really foul up the beginning of a session hardcore. You end up kinda talking through the game before you actually play it and then your characters aren't always as amazing once the dice hit the table as they are in the prologue. If you're going to do a montage, do it at the end when everyone's ready to wrap up and you can just all talk about how you escape Obviously Poorly-Built Tower once you've beaten Dr. Load-Bearing van Bossypants. Alternatively, start in media res by asking leading questions rather than calling for straight-out narration. "You're in the Laughing Goblin Inn and it's on fire. Sam, what's the name of the orc you have pinned to the wall? Julie, why did you throw a fireball into the kitchen? Marcus, what debt does this whole mess conveniently take care of for you?" I've found that sort of thing to be far more useful. ZenMasterBullshit posted:Plots are hard. I want to run a decent length 13A game in the base setting before I get too far into designing my 22nd age stuff, but I'm having difficulty coming up with a plot that would require going to a lot of locations in the setting that's not just a "Go collect all the [X]". But then again, maybe that's all I really need? I kinda gave up on writing plots during my last game. It seemed much more engaging to look at my character's backstories and think "what incomplete parts needs to be resolved and what resolved parts can I wreck?" I had kind of a general backdrop of "here's what's going on in the world" and then as stuff in the world made sense to cross the PC's path in the course of their personal stuff, it did. Also, the direction players WANT to go is the only direction you can be sure they WILL go.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:51
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RyvenCedrylle posted:Montages really foul up the beginning of a session hardcore. You end up kinda talking through the game before you actually play it and then your characters aren't always as amazing once the dice hit the table as they are in the prologue. If you're going to do a montage, do it at the end when everyone's ready to wrap up and you can just all talk about how you escape Obviously Poorly-Built Tower once you've beaten Dr. Load-Bearing van Bossypants. Alternatively, start in media res by asking leading questions rather than calling for straight-out narration. I use montages almost every game in one of my campaigns. I've found they work best as interstitials, but it does require a certain kind of group. Usually when they travel to a new location or are between rooms in a dungeon, I'll have them do a montage to cover the events that happen on the journey or to come up with a few of their own obstacles.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:55
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Jackard posted:I've seen this method used before, it felt very forced and played out strangely. Would not recommend. montages are great. montages allow players to be the unearthly heroes they should feel like without having to be bogged down by rules or dice rolls. montages allow characters to impact the world and collaborate on creating a memorable location, character, or event. as good as the DM may be, their plans for the game will not always match their player's. for a heist-planning montage, we came up with six memorable defenses we later played through. for a travel montage, when asked about a rumor we had heard, I killed an Icon.
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Feb 6, 2014 05:08
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PlasmaMan posted:montages are great. montages allow players to be the unearthly heroes they should feel like without having to be bogged down by rules or dice rolls. montages allow characters to impact the world and collaborate on creating a memorable location, character, or event. as good as the DM may be, their plans for the game will not always match their player's. for a heist-planning montage, we came up with six memorable defenses we later played through. for a travel montage, when asked about a rumor we had heard, I killed an Icon. ... or did you!?
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Feb 6, 2014 05:10
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Jackard posted:I've seen this method used before, it felt very forced and played out strangely. Would not recommend. You should listen to the 13A LP because Ironicus uses the Montage system in really neat ways (Like coming up with the traps and defenses that would lead up to a big vault and how the players planned to get past them).
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Feb 6, 2014 05:40
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Jackard posted:Did anything ever come of this? Sorry about that. I just phoned Simon and the map is not currently available for download, with or without the text/symbols. But he thinks it's a good idea (especially if it comes with some additional content) and will talk to Fire Opal. ZenMasterBullshit posted:Plots are hard. I want to run a decent length 13A game in the base setting before I get too far into designing my 22nd age stuff, but I'm having difficulty coming up with a plot that would require going to a lot of locations in the setting that's not just a "Go collect all the [X]". But then again, maybe that's all I really need? Other reasons to go to a lot of locations: The PCs are following the trail of a master villain who's going from spot to spot conducting dark rituals, collecting all the [X], fomenting dissent, or taking vengeance. The PCs are themselves fugitives. The problem is making their pursuer(s) sufficiently terrifying that they'd get out of town instead of standing and fighting. The PCs are participants in a thing that travels from place to place. Maybe the Emperor is doing a Grand Tour and they scout ahead looking for and neutralizing potential threats. Or they're carnival roustabouts. Or secret agents posing as a diplomat's staff.
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Feb 6, 2014 17:04
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waderockett posted:Or they're carnival roustabouts. I would absolutely run something like this, it sounds amazing.
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Feb 6, 2014 17:25
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From the Pelgrane Facebook page: Pelgrane Press Ltd New games up for playtesting, including Robin D. Laws' 13th Age adventure "The Strangling Sea". http://www.pelgranepress.com/?p=14319
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Feb 7, 2014 01:41
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djw175 posted:You know, the two ongoing campaigns I know of, the one I'm in and Ironicus', both have a "Go collect all the [X]." This is more of an idle observation than anything substantial. I don't think we've ever been west of Glitterhaegan. I'd argue that we spent levels 1-3 locally, then became globetrotting. And despite our goal of "Collect all the X" (in our case, "Stop multiple cults groups from reviving a dead God"), we have a lot of character backstory things. Sort of the "Gears of War" model, where it mixes procedural encounters ones based on personal lives.
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Feb 7, 2014 02:22
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P.d0t posted:From the Pelgrane Facebook page:
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Feb 7, 2014 04:24
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Jackard posted:How do these work? Is that deadline for emailing him or finishing the playtest with your group? That is the deadline to get playtest feedback returned. So if you signed up for that, you have 3 weeks to get it tested and write up your findings or else it won't make it to the author in time for the revisions and such.
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Feb 7, 2014 17:01
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Any chance we can get an update on when we will see the druid class in playtesting? I like the commander and everything, but druid is a class that is often referred to in the setting and it has a lot of history in D&D as well. It also has traditionally been one of the harder classes to balance, so getting it to the community for testing sooner rather than later could be pretty beneficial. The fact that it was cut from the core rulebook is another reason to prioritize getting this class out there. Any info on this?
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Feb 7, 2014 22:49
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Plots are hard. I want to run a decent length 13A game in the base setting before I get too far into designing my 22nd age stuff, but I'm having difficulty coming up with a plot that would require going to a lot of locations in the setting that's not just a "Go collect all the [X]". But then again, maybe that's all I really need?
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Feb 7, 2014 23:20
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MadScientistWorking posted:One of the most insane D&D adventures that wouldn't require "Go collect all the [x]" I have ever seen was fantasy Cannonball Run. The scary fact is that it would work in your setting too as the Cannonball Run was an actual event. Are you referring perhaps to Owlbear Run?
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Feb 7, 2014 23:48
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Majuju posted:Are you referring perhaps to Owlbear Run?
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Feb 8, 2014 00:12
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MadScientistWorking posted:Yes. I don't even know how good the adventure is but the premise alone is great. I tried running it for my 4E group but it's sort of bare-bones-y and I should've put more work into it in advance to facilitate more in-depth encounters. Also the mechanics for moving the owlbear are pretty trite and repetitive (skill checks over and over), and it's entirely possible to create an 'unwinnable' race state with a few botched rolls, which isn't that fun. Using it as a framework and running things in a more holistic manner would be the ideal way to do it, as well as beefing up some of the conflicts.
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Feb 8, 2014 00:30
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Majuju posted:I tried running it for my 4E group but it's sort of bare-bones-y and I should've put more work into it in advance to facilitate more in-depth encounters. Also the mechanics for moving the owlbear are pretty trite and repetitive (skill checks over and over), and it's entirely possible to create an 'unwinnable' race state with a few botched rolls, which isn't that fun. Using it as a framework and running things in a more holistic manner would be the ideal way to do it, as well as beefing up some of the conflicts.
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Feb 8, 2014 00:56
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Well I have my dumb plot. Spoilered because some of my players occasionally scan through this thread and I'm not ready to reveal things to them yet. Basically I'm going to start off with the example adventure in the book and the Traitor's ritual is that he's trying to use a dragon's egg and the centuries of Electrical energy stored in the Pillar to create a powerful artifact known as "The Spark of The Blue"/"The Heart of The Storm", except he fails because that's not what The Spark/Heart actually is and he just makes a super powerful dragon monster. The traitor was formerly a wizarding teacher at Horizon. A Grad student of his who was researching the ritual behind the barrier stones that the Archmage created/keep in shape and found out it was derived from a much more powerful much older spell. Cut to The end of the 5th Age: Great monsters with strength and power unfathomable to mind have brought society down to its knees. Not much is known about them now except for a name, sketched small and shakily in an ancient tome: The Agebreakers. In a last ditch effort the current Emperor had his armies lead them to the Capital, to the Dragon Palace itself, and the Grand Magus, the equivalent to the archmage at the time, used the ritual to seal them away inside the palace. The palace itself was brought to life then, a living dungeon that dug itself deep into the earth, keeping these beasts at bay. The student has found out that since the Barrier stones are derived from that ritual, they're pulling power from the Seal itself. Over the past few ages the Seal on the Agebreakers has slowly, but surely, begin to fade. Their Teacher, the Traitor, helped her figure out what must be done. They found some ancient tomes and basically found out some ingredients to a ritual that would simulate the first sealing. The traitor took this opportunity to steal the plans (which were actually wrong) and would try to gather the items and take the power of the Agebreakers for himself.
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Feb 8, 2014 03:27
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So after reading the big debacle that is the 13 true ways stuff and issues with melee classes, there's really only one thing to say about the current state of affairs. "The 13th Age: Too Many Monte Cooks Spoil the Broth"
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Feb 8, 2014 14:57
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Unknown Quantity posted:"The 13th Age: Too Many Monte Cooks Spoil the Broth" If ever there was an excuse for a new thread, with a new OP...
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Feb 8, 2014 18:17
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double post because question: For temporary companions/NPC allies who aren't gonna be around long, do you bother statting up their whole sheet, or just create them as monsters with a few more powers than most?
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Feb 8, 2014 19:23
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Dionysos510 posted:Any chance we can get an update on when we will see the druid class in playtesting? Classes go out for external playtesting when they're sufficiently developed through internal design and playtesting. There's no set date for the release of the Druid draft. Captain Walker posted:double post because question: For temporary companions/NPC allies who aren't gonna be around long, do you bother statting up their whole sheet, or just create them as monsters with a few more powers than most? I create them as monsters - it's faster and easier, and there isn't much need during play to know (for example) what their Wis modifier is. If I had a 3rd level wizard NPC who's likely to be in combat I'd stat up a 3rd level monster and give her wizard spells as powers. quote:Montages Patrick Weekes' under the hood series for his CSI: Drakkenhall campaign is a good read, and fun to see what another game designer does with the rules. I noticed his take on the montage is "each person rolls a skill check, describes success or failure, failure costs recoveries and makes the next check harder but doesn't stall the action." I'm going to see if I can find where that occurs because I'm also pretty leery of using the montage technique in my game, and would like to see it in action. I've heard mixed reviews. waderockett fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 20:50
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God I LOVE when a players character just fits in perfectly into a plot without having to change anything. Again, spoilered because some players read this thread So My player's OUT is this: "alright so I want him to have been a part of a dwarven phallanx assigned to fighting in the Depth the REALLY deep mines the dwarves have. When he and his unit came across something old. Everyone else is dead and he is now at the very least emmiting heat and sometimes actually on fire. What it is that made him this way and how to fix it is why he left the dwarven lands" Basically I'm running it as his phalanx found a wing of the Old Dragon Palace Living Dungeon as it was crawling around. (It's slowly but surely making it's way 'home' as the Seal weakens) and since the barrier was weak a bit of Agebreaker power/magic broke out killed everyone and left him cursed. It just fits so well ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 22:20
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Well first major campaign is ready, figured I would share my many PCs OUTs with you all. Also their dungeon hunting goals. Grue Redne'Katon : Only Goblin Adventurer, wishes to convince the rest of his that their is more to life then being bossed around by the bigger monsters. Eoighann: Fated to destroy the World with good intentions. His entire company was swallowed out by a massive living dungeon that was "grown" by the lich king, he now wishes to find that dungeon and either free his comrades or put them to rest. He swears to gain his revenge. Khor Deepborn: Found by my adoptive mother in a Living Dungeon, I am actually one of that Dungeon's monsters and don't know it yet. Krieg: Krieg was born a slave constantly fighting for survival as entertainment for the Drakkenhall nobility. He is rumoured to have won his freedom after beating a black dragon to death with his bare hands. Wishes to some day kick The Three out of Drakenhall Odo Brottenburn: A portion of the wizardking's soul successfully died before he became the lich, Odo is reincarnated from that piece of him. Yindra Aurora: I am a star fallen from the heavens so This will be interesting to say the least. Also have one more pc being made... 7 players. I hope I can pull this off
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Feb 9, 2014 18:53
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Unknown Quantity posted:So after reading the big debacle that is the 13 true ways stuff and issues with melee classes, there's really only one thing to say about the current state of affairs. Some friends and I are looking at 13th age and hadn't seen anything on this, is there somewhere I can read up on it?
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Feb 10, 2014 15:48
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My understanding: 3e-era game designer Monte Cook, depending on who you talk to, is a force of brilliant elegance and verisimilitude in elf simulation, a hopeless relic of the past, or the moon. Many people have tried to ape his advancements in 3.5 by copying them, which means no advancement at all.
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Feb 10, 2014 16:57
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GaistHeidegger posted:Some friends and I are looking at 13th age and hadn't seen anything on this, is there somewhere I can read up on it? The gist of it is that what 13th Age does well is provide the same sorts of experiences D&D has traditionally provided, while cutting out a lot of the stupid relics of D&D's design. One example is the background points system, where different classes originally recieved different amounts of points to distribute to their skills. Rogues and magic users had more than fighters and barbarians. This was changed for the final release because they realized that sandbagging some classes and giving some more chances for interesting characters was a stupid decision. Everyone was happy, it seemed like 13th Age was going to avoid the pitfalls of D&D, aside from the whole "magic users are still more interesting to play than martial classes" thing. Lately, though, there's been some indications that the grognardy shadow of D&D is exerting its dark influence upon the game design: the Monk class being openly awful (requiring at least three stats to be good while other classes only need one or two, tops) because apparently sucking really hard is the class's 'd20 legacy' and the Necromancer being an addon class that makes magic users better but doesn't do much for martial classes. In short, the absolute worst parts of 13th Age are the parts that are most like older d20 games, and that seems to be the direction they're heading in for whatever reason. Really, though, it's an excellent game overall- it's just a lot of us are annoyed with some of the blockheaded decisions that seem to be cropping up lately. (And the Monte Cook thing, if you didn't get the reference, refers to the 3.5e designer Monte Cook who's probably responsible for a lot of the caster superiority stuff because of his love of ~verisimilitude~)
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Feb 10, 2014 19:37
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What would actively fix the martial classes at this point? I've got a new player wanting to roll a barbarian. Am I better off leaving it as it is in the book, giving them the ability to inflict status conditions (weakened, stuck, etc etc) as I've jury rigged it now, or doing something more radical? I'm tempted to just up the damage dice to something ridiculous like a d20. Edit: on that note am I remembering right that someone in this thread put together a magic archer class (want to say a seeker?)? lenoon fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 22:31
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lenoon posted:What would actively fix the martial classes at this point? I've got a new player wanting to roll a barbarian. Am I better off leaving it as it is in the book, giving them the ability to inflict status conditions (weakened, stuck, etc etc) as I've jury rigged it now, or doing something more radical? It's not a complete fix, but the stunt system helps to give martials something else to do.
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Feb 10, 2014 22:44
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lenoon posted:What would actively fix the martial classes at this point? I've got a new player wanting to roll a barbarian. Am I better off leaving it as it is in the book, giving them the ability to inflict status conditions (weakened, stuck, etc etc) as I've jury rigged it now, or doing something more radical? Does the player want to do more than the baseline Barbarian does? Because if they want to play the class based on what's in the book I would ask them how to mod it before asking the forum.
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Feb 10, 2014 23:28
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lenoon posted:What would actively fix the martial classes at this point? I've got a new player wanting to roll a barbarian. Am I better off leaving it as it is in the book, giving them the ability to inflict status conditions (weakened, stuck, etc etc) as I've jury rigged it now, or doing something more radical? It depends what you mean by fix, here.
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Feb 10, 2014 23:36
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lenoon posted:Edit: on that note am I remembering right that someone in this thread put together a magic archer class (want to say a seeker?)? Behold: 13th Age Seeker, draft 2. It's martial in flavor but plays more like a spellcaster. Still looking for critique in case it sucks/is too good.
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Feb 11, 2014 00:38
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GaistHeidegger posted:Some friends and I are looking at 13th age and hadn't seen anything on this, is there somewhere I can read up on it? We have a pretty good FAQ! A couple of things: Monte Cook has never worked on 13th Age. 13th Age co-designer Jonathan Tweet was lead designer of 3rd edition D&D, but he's said in interviews that his main fantasy RPG inspirations for 13th Age are the Arduin trilogy (gonzo collection of D&D house rules GMs could pick and choose from at will) and RuneQuest (cults = icons.) Comments about the necromancer are based on this blog post. The class hasn't actually come out for playtest so no one but Rob knows what it looks like or how it works yet.
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Feb 11, 2014 01:32
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lenoon posted:What would actively fix the martial classes at this point? I've got a new player wanting to roll a barbarian. In my experience GMing, barbarians are insanely fun. They're a mechanically simple class that deals scary amounts of damage to enemies. It's only if your player thinks mechanically simple classes are boring that you'll have an issue. If that's the case, maybe they should take the fighter for a spin. Or the Stalwart?
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Feb 11, 2014 01:39
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