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khwarezm posted:The Varangians are really interesting to me since they are like the perfect opposite to the Praetorians and actually protected the Emperor like they were hired to do rather than killing the emperor and literally auctioning off the job to the highest bidder (look up Pertinax for more on this). When Harald Hardråde (Harald the Stern Ruler) was a member of the varangian guard he lead a revolt where the varangian guard blinded the emperor and stole his gold before sailing away to Norway. In 1071 the varangian guard deposed of Emperor Romanos IV Diogenes, arrested the empress and installed his nephew as emperor, then in 1078 they lead a revolt against Nikephoros III Botaneiates. So the varangian guard wasn't exactly blindly loyal. The caliphs also tried to have a loyal guard, but didn't trust their local troops. The solution was to recruit turkish infidels. This backfired spectacularly as the turkish guards killed four caliphs and established their own dynasties. The moral is: An imperial guard is a loving terrible idea. Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 08:10
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:The adjective is "Roman", not "Byzantine". Also, it was an aesthetic choice, people's art skills didn't get worse. Think about how people are still making pixel art in 2019 even though it's an aesthetic that comes from the limitations of a technology that has improved. After learning of its existence through...certain channels, and that they were looking for individuals with specific skill sets, he knew he had to at least TRY to join in. He had a background in historical culture, but his passion for art and his previous job as art director for several mid sized museums and some of the accolades he'd received as a result of that work, he felt, shown through into his more 'professional' calling, as he saw it. Regardless, it came as a rather large surprise to learn that he had in fact been chosen to go along, one of more than a dozen who would be the first to try out the new machine. Finally. A chance to travel back. Back to Byzantium. Surely, they would have liked to delve deeper into time, but, for now, this was as far back as they dared push the machine. Something about maths...not his thing, really. A long time passed, and much training. Boring, rigorous training. When finally the day arrived. After a brief crackle of electricity and the smell of...roses? They were there. They spent about two weeks acclimating themselves to the culture and people of the city, recording everything, and making connections where they could. He himself had made connections with the artists guild, and had finally arranged to meet with a man who was proclaimed the finest in the city, if not the best in the entire empire itself. Known to work in several mediums, and all admired and proclaimed to be exquisite. Meeting him was exactly as expected. He was a shorter man, well dressed, full of himself, and brusque. He was rude, but took to the flattery offered to him. "In the days of old," said the traveler, "Men and beast were depicted as if looking in a mirror, and now, it is not so. I would, for the right sum, have you create me such a work, on canvas, that I can show the world that such talent is not gone from this earth." The artist was incensed. Enraged that he would even be compared to those 'base amateurs' and demanded an ungodly sum, which, to his surprise, he received. "I will make for you the finest representation of a stallion ever conceived under the dome of the heavens. Man shall quake to look upon it. The Lord himself would know it as belonging to one of the four riders were he to look upon it, so terrifying and true shall it be. I will make for you, this horse." Nearly two weeks passed. During which time the traveler dreamt of the fabulous wealth, and the new found fame and research opportunities this would open for him, to show once and for all that artistic talent had NOT declined in these centuries after the seeming collapse of the imperial system. One day, he received a knock on the door at the home he was staying at. It was time. He met the man at his gallery along with a small crowd of a select few he recognized from some of the local artist guilds, and a few others that he did not. But in the center of the place, upon a pedestal, covered in black cloth, stood a monumental work. Rectangular, it appeared to be perhaps, a portrait, or scroll, but still covered as to hide its contents. After what seemed like an eternity, the man called everyone together and addressed them. "Friends. I have been challenged, to bring to you this day, a REALISTIC horse. ...because I have been told, we Romans can heh, no longer DO so." This was met with stifled laughter from the assembly. And so, I have wrought through countless hours, with these gnarled hands, my finest and most TERRIBLE work. A horse to out pace all others. A horse that would SHAME Bucephalous in his PRIME. Men. Prepare your eyes for our true and awesome glory is at HAND!" And with that, he dashed away the the curtain. The most blessed curtain. For it contained the most terrible and devastating lightning bolt from heaven to ever strike the heart of the poor traveler and those of his contemporaries as its effect rippled on down through the ages upon its revelation.  The room erupted into thunderous cheers of adulation. The traveler stood, unmoving. Unable to break his gaze. They were carrying the artist away now on their shoulders into the streets, into the gathering throngs. He could only blink. This was art now.
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Feb 18, 2019 14:19
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:The adjective is "Roman", not "Byzantine". Romans live in Rome 
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Feb 18, 2019 14:26
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Rutibex posted:Romans live in Rome Oh definitely, Rome or New Rome.
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Feb 18, 2019 16:19
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Alhazred posted:When Harald Hardråde (Harald the Stern Ruler) was a member of the varangian guard he lead a revolt where the varangian guard blinded the emperor and stole his gold before sailing away to Norway. In 1071 the varangian guard deposed of Emperor Romanos IV Diogenes, arrested the empress and installed his nephew as emperor, then in 1078 they lead a revolt against Nikephoros III Botaneiates. So the varangian guard wasn't exactly blindly loyal. I didn't know about the Harald Hardrade thing but for the other two, I can't find much, or really any, information that implicates the Varangians as key players in the post-Manzikert skulduggery that you describe, can you show me? Like for Nikephoros III, wasn't he in the process of seizing power in 1078, having to battle the other Nikephorus for the position of emperor? At worst it seems like they were caught up in confusing events rather than causing them.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:00
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Another Emperor people forget is John Tzimiskes, he is underrated.
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Feb 19, 2019 05:47
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The bells ring in the new year across Europe. It is now the year 900 and every family even close to sniffing upper middle class status is rejoicing, for they know that finally, the promised time has come. After all these years of struggle, they are now free. Free! At long last, for the next several centuries no more needless labor be expended in the useless struggle to name daughters. "Congratulations, you're a father to a beautiful, healthy baby Eudoxia" would come the call from the priest or attendant doctor for untold centuries hence. Untold, nearly incomprehensible amounts of Eudoxia's, milling about in palaces, courtyards, and waiting to be caught up in various intrigues or dying on a boat on the way to France or something with a shoulder shrugging "I guess...and then he married another Eudoxia but this one spelled it Evdoxia" as a beautiful summary of their lives. Truly the world had entered a golden age.
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Feb 19, 2019 06:13
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Jack2142 posted:Another Emperor people forget is John Tzimiskes, he is underrated. John Tzmiskes was cool as hell but he also got power by murdering an emperor named the White Death of the Saracens who was popular because he killed and killed and killed and killed and killed.
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Feb 19, 2019 07:09
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:John Tzmiskes was cool as hell but he also got power by murdering an emperor named the White Death of the Saracens who was popular because he killed and killed and killed and killed and killed. Yes but he may have personally killed the White Death of the Saracens after escaping from arrest and sneaking across the Empire and infiltrating the palace which is a pretty power move. But Nikephoros, Tzmiskes and Basil II were three cool and good Emperor's who killed guys and didn't give a gently caress (literally in Basil & Nikephoros's case)
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Feb 19, 2019 08:26
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Just saw a stand of Marcus Aurelius and Stoic books in the local bookshop. This poo poo is spreading
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Feb 21, 2019 16:57
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Surprise Giraffe posted:Just saw a stand of Marcus Aurelius and Stoic books in the local bookshop. This poo poo is spreading did you buy them?
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Feb 21, 2019 17:40
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Surprise Giraffe posted:Just saw a stand of Marcus Aurelius and Stoic books in the local bookshop. This poo poo is spreading Hail Caesar
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Feb 21, 2019 17:48
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One of my favorite ancient history articles of recent years, from the New Yorker last October: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/29/the-myth-of-whiteness-in-classical-sculpture People just straight up refuse to believe that Roman and other Ancient statues were painted and gaudy as poo poo. Museums and other institutions have banded together for years to clean statues so they look pure and white. People don't get just how tacky and human Ancient people were.
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Feb 22, 2019 01:49
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Surprise Giraffe posted:Just saw a stand of Marcus Aurelius and Stoic books in the local bookshop. This poo poo is spreading i guess i was a philosophy major but its been pretty big "popular" philosophy for quite some time
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Feb 22, 2019 02:13
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:One of my favorite ancient history articles of recent years, from the New Yorker last October: well then they should stop
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Feb 22, 2019 03:36
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Milo and POTUS posted:well then they should stop It's not that simple. People like the clean white statues and think that they're correct.
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Feb 22, 2019 04:04
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:One of my favorite ancient history articles of recent years, from the New Yorker last October: Pro click. I remember my lecturer getting really mad (in 2008ish) about racists using white statues to be racist but she never clarified.
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Feb 22, 2019 13:01
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I wanted to revive this thread to share the story of the man who was temporary emperor at times and the greatest friend history has ever known Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa  This dude was Augustus Caesar's right hand man and best friend before Rome had an Emperor. Hell, the history of Rome would have been completely different without this BAMF. When Augustus, or Octavian at the time, came back to Rome after the death of Julius Caesar Octavian learned Julius Caesar had adopted him. Suddenly he needed an army and turned to Agrippa for help. By this time Agrippa was a renowned soldier and helped raise the armies Octavian needed. Because he was so loving good at his job and an amazing bro Octavian gave him all kinds of rewards including Governor of Gual. He ended up being the second Roman general to cross the Rhine after Julius and put down a few uprisings by the Gauls. Eventually Octavian needed his help again and commanded him back to Rome. Octavian wanted to give Agrippa a triumph for the amazing work he did in Gaul but Agrippa said "gently caress that noise, poo poo is really loving bad and this is no time to celebrate." Octavian then made him consul even though he was well below the minimum age. For the next couple of years Agrippa is leading Octavian's armies to victory after victory, doing large infrastructure projects, and improving the navy technologically like figuring out how to make bigger ships and improving grappling hooks. He once again does such an amazing job Octavian gives him an honor called the Naval Crown. From Wikipedia Wikipedia posted:Agrippa received the unprecedented honour of a naval crown decorated with the beaks of ships; as Dio remarks, this was "a decoration given to nobody before or since". A picture of him wearing it  After he proved to everyone how loving great he was at war he decided to do the next logical thing, become the first Water Commissioner of Rome. He fixed or installed countless aqueducts, baths, and gardens. He cleaned out Rome's sewer system and expanded it, he gave generously to the arts, and when Augustus would later boast "he had found the city of brick but left it of marble" it was because of Agrippa's tireless work. By this point he was a little over 30 years old. Its around this time that Marc Antony starts loving Cleopatra and gets it in his head that he should attack Octavian. So once again Octavian calls on the greatest best friend in history for help. Agrippa says "No worries bra, I got this" and proceeds to wipe the floor with Marc Antony all along the Greek coast before crushing him at Actium. Actium was the battle that broke Antony and what led to Octavian being given the title Augustus. Without Agrippa Antony wins and there is no Augustus Caesar, first Emperor of Rome. In order to commemorate the battle of Actium Agrippa builds the Pantheon. Yes, that Pantheon. Eventually it was destroyed but Emperor Hadrian used the same design to build the new one that is still standing in Rome today. After being consul a few more times Agrippa decides to be governor of Gaul again and spends the next few years revamping the road network and aqueducts. Once again Augustus calls Agrippa back and asks him for help uncovering an assassination plot. They form a plan where the two of them fake a massive falling out and Agrippa being exiled to the eastern provinces. Agrippa leaves Rome but never makes it to the east, instead governing by proxy while he negotiated for the return of a Legion Eagle from the Parthians that they captured many years ago. Roman Legion Eagles are BIG loving DEALS and in order to capture one the Parthians had to wipe out a few Roman Legions to get just one. He also happened to have a large army under his command as well which was weird for a man in exile. Eventually the assassination plot is found out and he comes back to Rome pretending to beg Augustus to let him come back. This probably looked like them sharing a few glasses a wine while laughing their asses off. His reward for this was being given even more authority which eventually culminated in being acting Roman Emperor for 5 years while Augustus recovered from an illness. Augustus allowed him to marry his daughter, Julia the Elder, who was renowned for being incredibly hot. At this point Agrippa is son-in-law to Augustus and around 40 years old. For the rest of his life, which was only another 10 years sadly, was spent with him being given even more honors and awards. He was made Tribunicia Potestas which meant he could veto anything the Senate did and anyone caught trying to harm him physically or politically could be legally executed. Agrippa had almost the same powers of Augustus by this point but everyone knew Augustus was in charge and Agrippa never did anything to overthrow him. Seriously, this man could have been Emperor or Rome but decided to instead help his friend. Agrippa next went to the eastern promises for real this time and did such an amazing job the people there loved him, including the Jewish people. He died at the age of 51 while on campaign in Italy. Sadly his cause of death isn't known but we can only assume it was in a way only Maddox can describe. Instead of being buried in the family tomb he was instead buried in Augustus's mausoleum so they could be together for all eternity. Agrippa loved writing and geography and was the first person to create a survey of the entire Roman Empire, something Julius Caesar only dreamed of. He also standardized units of measure throughout the empire and many of the roads he built are still used today. The only dark spot on his life is he ended up being the grandfather of Caligula and great-grandfather of Nero.
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Mar 2, 2019 01:25
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limp_cheese posted:He died at the age of 51 while on campaign in Italy. Sadly his cause of death isn't known but we can only assume it was in a way only Maddox can describe. Instead of being buried in the family tomb he was instead buried in Augustus's mausoleum so they could be together for all eternity. Agrippa loved writing and geography and was the first person to create a survey of the entire Roman Empire, something Julius Caesar only dreamed of. He also standardized units of measure throughout the empire and many of the roads he built are still used today. I, Claudius postulates that Agrippa was assassinated by Livia as part of a series of killings meant to clear Tiberius' path to the throne.
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Mar 2, 2019 06:03
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The Obvious Answer Fatih Sultan Mehmet
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Mar 2, 2019 07:08
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Vinny Possum posted:The Obvious Answer MODS?
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Mar 2, 2019 07:53
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limp_cheese posted:I wanted to revive this thread to share the story of the man who was temporary emperor at times and the greatest friend history has ever known Thanks for the write up, really well done!
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Mar 2, 2019 20:56
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HugeGrossBurrito posted:Thanks for the write up, really well done! Thank you! He just always seems to be forgotten in the shadow of Augustus, which is understandable, but he was an amazing man that helped make Augustus the man he is remembered as. Plus he was that rare kind of man that knew when to srop being ambitious which is really saying something with how Roman culture was.
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Mar 2, 2019 22:09
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limp_cheese posted:Thank you! He just always seems to be forgotten in the shadow of Augustus, which is understandable, but he was an amazing man that helped make Augustus the man he is remembered as. Plus he was that rare kind of man that knew when to srop being ambitious which is really saying something with how Roman culture was. Considering that all of Roman society, especially for the blue bloods was based on boundless ambition, it's pretty impressive that Agrippa actually knew when to stop, and that his loyalty to Augustus outstripped his ambition.
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Mar 2, 2019 22:55
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I loving love that even now, 2000 years later, the Pantheon still has Agrippa’s name on the front
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Mar 2, 2019 23:17
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Nero, Trajan, Augustus, Marcus Aurelius, Aurelian and Julian the Apostate.
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Mar 2, 2019 23:21
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Grouchio posted:Nero, Trajan, Augustus, Marcus Aurelius, Aurelian and Julian the Apostate. Bold choices but you must pick 1 or face my sword (gladius).......
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Mar 3, 2019 01:23
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MA-Horus posted:Considering that all of Roman society, especially for the blue bloods was based on boundless ambition, it's pretty impressive that Agrippa actually knew when to stop, and that his loyalty to Augustus outstripped his ambition. Emperor Justinian had a similar loyal goto guy, general Flavius Belisarius. This dude conquered basically the entire western empire, and instead of declaring himself western emperor (like every other general who managed to conquer it) he just gave it all to Justinian.
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Mar 3, 2019 01:27
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MA-Horus posted:Considering that all of Roman society, especially for the blue bloods was based on boundless ambition, it's pretty impressive that Agrippa actually knew when to stop, and that his loyalty to Augustus outstripped his ambition. If HBO's Rome is to be believed is because he was in love with Augustus' sister.
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Mar 3, 2019 01:45
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Agrippa was simultaneously the best General, Admiral, and Engineer of his time. And all the while he was like "heck yeah Augustus is my best friend!" of course he wasn't the most interesting of Octavian's friends. I'll let someone else write up Gaius Maecenas
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Mar 3, 2019 02:52
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Rutibex posted:Emperor Justinian had a similar loyal goto guy, general Flavius Belisarius. This dude conquered basically the entire western empire, and instead of declaring himself western emperor (like every other general who managed to conquer it) he just gave it all to Justinian. I kinda love the endless revolving door of: code:Hmmmm, we're trapped in a narrow swampy valley, and the Bulgarians built a palisade to stop our retreat towards Constantinople?... Nah, they couldn't be around here, they're too scared of us. No need to scout boys, let's camp here for the night. No, no, don't fortify the camp at all, I don't wanna freak the troops out. OH GOD 
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Mar 3, 2019 04:48
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Titus Andronicus because julie taymor's movie about him was badass
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Mar 3, 2019 05:17
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Engaging in some serious thread necromancy to add some photos to this thread. The Walters art gallery in Baltimore has some really cool ancient Greek, Roman, and Egyptian stuff, this is a small fraction of it and honestly I mostly took pictures of ancient butts and penises so I recommend visiting because its free. a thicc statue this I think was one of the Indian artifacts they had all over the museum while they renovate that section.  Come at me bruhticus  The more naked guys they could fit on your coffin the better  This dude fucks  Elvis and a very stoned medusa  ancient baby boomer  2000 years later and im still tryin to spread them cheeks  Augustus to his barber- "yeah just gently caress my poo poo up completely"  Livia making the face she presumably made while doing all those murders  poor guy lost his penis  would  Flavian Mcnulty  Carcalla not mad just dissapointed  Happy Couple  Hey sugar come get some of this  Joke about my wife  *ptttffbbbb*  HEY LAADIES  Check out my new Naruto wall scroll its sick  We're the wet bandits  Vespasian re-carved his head onto this statue of Nero for some reason  Marcus Aurelius thinkin about thos meditations.  Hope you enjoyed the butts and emperors.
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Jun 20, 2019 17:46
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Much of that art was contemporary. We look at it now and gaze upon it as one-offs in a museum and think "wow, look at these alabaster monoliths". They are rightfully impressive as they are. They were gaudily painted and set among untold others, and passed over just like a nice set of china or some landscape painting you might have in your living room right now. They were and are extremely valuable and sought after, but these are the bare scrapings of what's left of what's left of whatever someone deemed nice enough to keep, for the most part.
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Jun 20, 2019 22:11
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Big Beef City posted:Much of that art was contemporary. Walters was a confederate sympathizer who left the US for Europe during the civil war and pillaged much of these artifacts himself this is the good poo poo lol
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Jun 20, 2019 22:16
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Is there a specific reason why so many statues have their nose chopped off?
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Jun 21, 2019 11:12
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It's the easiest way to say "gently caress you". Egyptians did it as a religious thing. Christians did it because Egyptians did it it. Everyone did it because it's just easy to 'deface' a statue in that way. Get it?
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Jun 21, 2019 11:23
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barbecue at the folks posted:Is there a specific reason why so many statues have their nose chopped off? Everybody back then had Syphilis.
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Jun 21, 2019 14:28
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Frankenstyle posted:Everybody back then had Syphilis.  no one back then had syphilis. syphilis is a disease native to the americas
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Jun 21, 2019 15:06
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