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OoT and MM are somewhat of a disjoint set. Few people seem to like them both at the same level. I loved them both. People either loved Ocarina but hated Majora's Mask because it was outside of Hyrule, not a "Zelda" game, the time limit sucked, and it was so different. OR, people loved Majora's Mask because it was so different, the time limit gave a sense of urgency, and wasn't stuck in old boring Hyrule. Such opposite spectrum of opinion... My top 3 is as follows: *Ocarina of Time *Skyward Sword *Link to the Past (my top 4 would include Majora's Mask!) That game needs an HD Remake more than Wind Waker! Oh and my opinion matters more than most people since I've played ever console Zelda ever made (CD-I doesn't count) in the order they were released chronologically 
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Mar 18, 2013 08:02
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Runaway Five posted:OoT and MM are somewhat of a disjoint set. Few people seem to like them both at the same level. I loved them both. People either loved Ocarina but hated Majora's Mask because it was outside of Hyrule, not a "Zelda" game, the time limit sucked, and it was so different. OR, people loved Majora's Mask because it was so different, the time limit gave a sense of urgency, and wasn't stuck in old boring Hyrule. Such opposite spectrum of opinion... Actually none of those reasons are why I loved Majora's Mask. It's just got an incredible atmosphere and is creepy and depressing as gently caress, has awesome items, manages to make long quest chains fun, great dungeons, really fun exploration, top notch writing, great visuals etc. I think not being set in hyrule was literally just slapped onto the game's story to justify all the reused character models. Also I guess people who think not being in hyrule matters must hate about half the series? Runaway Five posted:(my top 4 would include Majora's Mask!) That game needs an HD Remake more than Wind Waker! The only games that need a remake less is Twilight Princess. Heck, a Skyward Sword on the Wii U could actually get the watercolor filter right, if nothing else. I'm still loving baffled that they chose Wind Waker.
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Mar 18, 2013 08:23
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Since the only especially new Zelda thing on the news as of late is HD Wind Waker, I've been leaning more towards the fan community and seeing what sorts of things they came out with. Is anyone the least bit familiar with Zelda Classic? Looks like it got its first release after a seven goddamn year haitus  so I'm curious if anyone is able to suggest any awesome quests. Link's Awakening was my absolute favorite Zelda (alongside Majora's Mask), so scratching that 2d Zelda itch would be swell.
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Mar 18, 2013 08:44
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I made a Zelda Classic quest like eight years ago. It is pretty drat awful. Hard to believe that people are still using that program.
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Mar 18, 2013 08:52
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Evil Eagle posted:I made a Zelda Classic quest like eight years ago. It is pretty drat awful. Hard to believe that people are still using that program. Wow, there's some freeware memories. That and Dink Smallwood made for some fun Zelda-ish times.
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Mar 18, 2013 09:30
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Zore posted:Couldn't ever finish Majora's Mask, despite liking it quite a bit more than Ocarina, because I despise the time limit stuff and it just saps my will to play the game. I mean, I like and appreciate what it does for the game but it makes it into something that is most definitely not for me. The time limit really isnt an issue once you get the song to slow time. Then its never an issue and you just use time to make different appointments. You can get that pretty much after the first dungeon, if I remember. Not really sure. I went to replay it and man that and OOT have not aged well. I really want a remake. Hell if they made it for 3DS it would sell me a 3DS.
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Mar 18, 2013 16:33
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Bombadilillo posted:The time limit really isnt an issue once you get the song to slow time. Then its never an issue and you just use time to make different appointments. You can get that pretty much after the first dungeon, if I remember. You can get the Song of Reverse Time the second you get back the Ocarina. It's not even a song you have to learn, just play the Song of Time backwards.
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Mar 18, 2013 16:46
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DarkHamsterlord posted:I'm a huge fan of Seasons, but I actually think Ages is one of the worst 2D Zelda games out there. The dungeons in Ages are pretty solid, but everything that isn't a dungeon is just constant tedium. Whenever I would finish a dungeon, I'd think "Okay, now what bullshit quest do I have to spend 20 minutes on before the next one?" (Examples that immediately come to mind are the awful trading quest on the island, and the Goron village where you have to play like, a million minigames and they're all bad) Ages is really cool with the past and present stuff but I always hit a wall around the goron village. I really like the color scheme of Ages too. I think Ages actually has goron dancing as a requirement to advance the story, while Seasons has dancing but for items.
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Mar 18, 2013 17:06
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I love those Subrosians though. Cool little dudes.
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Mar 18, 2013 17:10
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Bombadilillo posted:Not really sure. I went to replay it and man that and OOT have not aged well. I really want a remake. Hell if they made it for 3DS it would sell me a 3DS. I actually just recently replayed OoT on Gamecube and it didn't age as poorly as I thought. It hasn't aged well, certainly, but it's still decent. Majora's Mask, being way prettier than OoT and having more solid gameplay, as aged even better.
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Mar 18, 2013 17:18
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Speaking of Majora's Mask this is uh... certainly a thing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf7JNzo6DZY
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Mar 18, 2013 17:25
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I didn't like Majora's Mask very much. It kind of depressed me that all my work was constantly being undone, I guess. Maybe I'd appreciate it more as a grown-up, but I was not happy at all when it came out. Luckily, Wind Waker more than made up for it. For years I've been mildly obsessed with having a boat and sailing. I wonder if I began desiring my own boat because of that game or if it just strengthened that need to hit the open water, pick a point on the horizon, and just go.
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Mar 18, 2013 17:30
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Bombadilillo posted:The time limit really isnt an issue once you get the song to slow time. Then its never an issue and you just use time to make different appointments. You can get that pretty much after the first dungeon, if I remember. I know about the song of reverse time. I still hate the time limit stuff because it doesn't mesh well with how I play at all. Also I did the part where you collect the 7 Zora eggs with a single bottle which really ratcheted up my 'gently caress this' apathy towards the game.
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Mar 18, 2013 17:32
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Zore posted:Also I did the part where you collect the 7 Zora eggs with a single bottle which really ratcheted up my 'gently caress this' apathy towards the game. But that's no one's fault but your own? Assuming you know which side quests to hit, you can have four bottles by the time you start the Zora Egg quest. And the last two can be gotten as soon as you get the hookshot (I think, I know at one of them can). Artix fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Mar 18, 2013 |
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Mar 18, 2013 17:34
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Artix posted:But that's no one's fault but your own? Assuming you know which side quests to hit, you can have three bottles by the time you start the Zora Egg quest, and you can get a fourth one as soon as you get the Hookshot. Assuming you know what sidequests to hit yes. I didn't, and the game wasn't exactly easy to puzzle out when I was 10. I'm not sure why people keep telling me its my fault for not liking the game? I said I appreciated it and thought it was a good game, just not for me for a variety of reasons. I don't have fun playing it because the time limit stresses me and makes long sidequests a bitch and a half to do. Collecting the fairies in the dungeons was obnoxious. The alien shooting bit was difficult (and really freaked my child self out). I hated everything about the swamp and ocean. And I didn't like any of the boss fights I played through. Zore fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Mar 18, 2013 |
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Mar 18, 2013 17:43
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I was ok with the Zora Egg quest because playing as Zora Link is maybe one of the coolest things in the entire series.
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Mar 18, 2013 17:47
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Artix posted:But that's no one's fault but your own? Assuming you know which side quests to hit, you can have four bottles by the time you start the Zora Egg quest. And the last two can be gotten as soon as you get the hookshot (I think, I know at one of them can). Technically, you could get the sixth bottle as soon as you get the Hookshot, but you also need the Garo's Mask.
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Mar 18, 2013 17:48
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KimT posted:I was ok with the Zora Egg quest because playing as Zora Link is maybe one of the coolest things in the entire series. Also wearing the Stone Mask makes you invisible to the pirates, so that part of the quest is a breeze. As far as I'm concerned the well mini-dungeon in Ikana Canyon is a lot worse, but even that's not so bad once you realize almost everything you need can be found in the dungeon. quote:And I didn't like any of the boss fights I played through. This is nuts because Majora's Mask has the best boss fights of the 3D Zeldas. 
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Mar 18, 2013 18:04
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:There are a ton of games like that, though. Like, a whole grip of them. You might as well call Might and Magic a Zelda series. Zore posted:I'm not sure why people keep telling me its my fault for not liking the game?
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Mar 18, 2013 18:37
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romanowski posted:Also wearing the Stone Mask makes you invisible to the pirates, so that part of the quest is a breeze. As far as I'm concerned the well mini-dungeon in Ikana Canyon is a lot worse, but even that's not so bad once you realize almost everything you need can be found in the dungeon. Odolwa sucks though. His fight is kind of random and nonsensical. Also while fierce deity mask rocks, actually using it makes boss fights boring.
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Mar 18, 2013 18:45
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LividLiquid posted:Yeah. You're pretty much not allowed not to like Majora's Mask around here. I can't play it. You are allowed whatever opinion you want. However, those of us that really like Majora's Mask find that we have to defend our opinions really fiercely against all the people who think the game is irredeemably awful, because it wasn't a copy paste of OoT.
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Mar 18, 2013 18:53
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Well, to be perfectly honest, I made that claim based almost exclusively on Goht. Goht rules. The water temple boss would be a lot better if it was set entirely under water, and Twinmold is mostly just frustrating if you don't have a blue potion (or chateu romani or whatever gives you unlimited magic). But none of them follow the "use the dungeon item three times" pattern that every other 3d Zelda does, which is refreshing. Also Goht rules.
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Mar 18, 2013 18:56
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If Majora's Mask was the sequel people were expecting, it would have been Twilight Princess. The same game all over again, but with better graphics and a few new items. Thankfully, what we got was one of my favourite games in the series. Wind Waker was also an especially good sequel to Ocarina of Time, but for completely different reasons.
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Mar 18, 2013 19:02
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romanowski posted:Well, to be perfectly honest, I made that claim based almost exclusively on Goht. Goht rules. The water temple boss would be a lot better if it was set entirely under water, and Twinmold is mostly just frustrating if you don't have a blue potion (or chateu romani or whatever gives you unlimited magic). But none of them follow the "use the dungeon item three times" pattern that every other 3d Zelda does, which is refreshing. I disagree. Goht rules hardcore.
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Mar 18, 2013 19:02
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romanowski posted:Well, to be perfectly honest, I made that claim based almost exclusively on Goht. Goht rules. The water temple boss would be a lot better if it was set entirely under water, and Twinmold is mostly just frustrating if you don't have a blue potion (or chateu romani or whatever gives you unlimited magic). But none of them follow the "use the dungeon item three times" pattern that every other 3d Zelda does, which is refreshing. Did you not play Skyward Sword? Because most of the bosses there didn't fit that pattern either. And they were more fun than 'roll around in a circle as a Goron in almost complete safety' or 'sit in a corner and shoot arrows in complete safety'. Goht has a cool introduction and design but sucks as a boss. Gohma is more threatening than he is. Hell, King Dodongo, slow and pathetic as he is, is more threatening since you at least have to get somewhere he can hit you during the fight. Zore fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Mar 18, 2013 |
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Mar 18, 2013 19:06
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I did play Skyward Sword (and am currently replaying it), and most of the bosses still follow the pattern. Only Girahim doesn't. They're a little more creative overall but the pattern is still there. On that note, the Ancient Cistern boss also rules. romanowski fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Mar 18, 2013 |
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Mar 18, 2013 19:09
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The ancient cistern boss goes about four cycles longer than is interesting. When he looked dead and put himself back together I thought it was about to get interesting again, but nope, just repeat the same thing three or four more times.
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Mar 18, 2013 19:18
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I tried to enjoy Majora's Mask, but it didn't click with me. To me the game felt....disjointed, confusing, and repetitive. The time limit certainly didn't help either. My sister however, loving loves Majora's Mask and hates the rest of the series. To me, Zelda is all about progression and taking your time, getting new toys to play with and getting stronger, which Majora's Mask throws out the window. There's like only four badly designed dungeons and the meat of the game is all about sidequests, which get you....masks that replace functions of certain items and weapons. Maybe Majora's Mask is the Zelda game for people who hate Zelda games? Honestly I miss the style of the older 2D Zelda games, Link to the Past is still my favorite game in the series. wafflemoose fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Mar 18, 2013 |
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Mar 18, 2013 19:46
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I don't even mind much the "use item 3 times on boss" style of fighting, it makes it feel like a badass swinging over the lava bug in Dragon Roost Island, because it's cinematic. It's a Zelda way to go hog wild and have a cool set piece. I think it's also to encourage people to become adept with the items. While I think most of us have itchy trigger fingers and just unload boomerangs and whole quivers into moblins when we're not grinding enemies into powder with a hammer, I wouldn't be surprised if the average player they design around uses the sword almost exclusively, only busting out items to solve puzzles.
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Mar 18, 2013 20:42
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The "do thing three times" model of boss fights is not just a Zelda problem, it's more of a Nintendo problem generally. They also do it in every Mario game now. And kind of have ever since SMB3.
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Mar 18, 2013 20:47
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greatn posted:The "do thing three times" model of boss fights is not just a Zelda problem, it's more of a Nintendo problem generally. They also do it in every Mario game now. And kind of have ever since SMB3. Isn't three a lucky number in Japan? I'm sure that's why Nintendo does that.
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Mar 18, 2013 21:38
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Three is just a good number. You don't want to have so many repetitions as to frustrate children, but you don't want it to be one hit and you're done, and four is bad luck, so three. It's got a nice rhythm, you nail that second hit and you're over halfway done now.
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Mar 18, 2013 21:45
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The Rule of Three is also a key item in writing.
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Mar 18, 2013 21:48
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Three is also all over Christianity (Father/Son/Holy Spirit) and is symbolized all over "Classical" music. Still standing by that if you found the time to be a huge problem in Majora's Mask you're just bad at games.
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Mar 18, 2013 22:31
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Sire Oblivion posted:Three is also all over Christianity (Father/Son/Holy Spirit)
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Mar 18, 2013 22:44
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Starhawk64 posted:Isn't three a lucky number in Japan? I'm sure that's why Nintendo does that. Well, three is a magic number.
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Mar 18, 2013 23:04
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I didn't like Majora's Mask very much. It kind of depressed me that all my work was constantly being undone, I guess. Maybe I'd appreciate it more as a grown-up, but I was not happy at all when it came out. Luckily, Wind Waker more than made up for it. The only true way to play Majora's Mask is to do one final glorious sidequest and boss run on the last cycle before beating the final boss. Yes, some are mutually exclusive but I think the old lady can live without her bomb bag.
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Mar 18, 2013 23:26
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Some Numbers posted:You are allowed whatever opinion you want. However, those of us that really like Majora's Mask find that we have to defend our opinions really fiercely against all the people who think the game is irredeemably awful, because it wasn't a copy paste of OoT. I can't play MM for two reasons: 1.) The ticking clock freaks me out and renders me unable to relax when exploring. Yes, even after I slowed time. Sire Oblivion posted:Still standing by that if you found the time to be a huge problem in Majora's Mask you're just bad at games. 2.) I absolutely can't stand having to try every idea I have nine times each. If I have an idea of where to go and what to do next, I should be able to do that once to know if it'll work or not. I shouldn't have to try it three times per day for three in-game days until one of them works. That's a whole world of not fun. That's it. It's not an unplayable mess. I don't think it's garbage. I just know that it wasn't designed for people like me. You continue to have fun with it. I'm jealous that you have a whole Zelda game you can play that I can't.
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Mar 18, 2013 23:28
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I know that YOU don't think MM is awful. Many other Zelda fans have told me that liking MM best is flat out wrong and that I'm not a Zelda fan. After hearing that a few times, you'd be defensive too.
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Mar 18, 2013 23:33
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Crash a Moon into their house. That'll show them.
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Mar 18, 2013 23:37
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