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The actual tough part about the route is after freezing everyone you need to backtrack 3 screens to grab a ring from a dumpster you might not have checked, and if you don't have that ring the game just proceeds as normal.
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Sep 19, 2021 06:14
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Yeah the bad time route here is a lot more visceral and personal. Like you have to understand Noelle's character enough to properly push her into becoming a killer, which is just more involved and discomforting than just detaching yourself from everything to kill everyone in Undertale. Not that it's lacking in moments given how various bosses react to your rampage in that game. But doing stuff like forcing Noelle to be your date and have her be the one to kill everything is just really slimy. And also it's clear that this isn't what Kris and Ralsei want at all, but both of them are powerless to stop you from corrupting Noelle.
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Sep 19, 2021 06:17
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Just finished the Genocide route, and I am now acutely aware of why Spamton NEO was made to be easier than Jevil. Turns out that that fight gets a lot harder with only one party member!
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Sep 19, 2021 06:18
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SyntheticPolygon posted:The actual tough part about the route is after freezing everyone you need to backtrack 3 screens to grab a ring from a dumpster you might not have checked, and if you don't have that ring the game just proceeds as normal. That's true. At least if you check it first, you get the hint. But why would you even think to go to the haha funny Toby Fox car crash easter egg on a genocide route to even find out? The Thorn Ring is probably the second most arcane part of the process, after the ferris wheel. The shopkeeper feels a bit more intuitive? It gives you a prompt you normally wouldn't get, and if you're already obsessing enough to trigger the route naturally, you'll probably answer in kind with the shopkeeper. Also is it just me, or are you basically doing a much more sinister, effective version of what Berdly's plan was?
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Sep 19, 2021 06:20
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The Bee posted:That part seems easy enough to figure out. The ferris wheel, on the other hand, feels like a really easy trigger to miss. If you're cool with having Noelle being a mass murderer but not cool with pressuring her into riding a ferris wheel with you, or prefer playing matchmaker for her and Susie instead, it sounds like you just don't get the route. I tested out the route myself and the ferris wheel part isn't actually needed
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Sep 19, 2021 06:22
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Saigyouji posted:Just finished the Genocide route, and I am now acutely aware of why Spamton NEO was made to be easier than Jevil. Turns out that that fight gets a lot harder with only one party member! comparing the two, his genocide fight is also juiced up compared to the original - faster attack projectiles at the very least. he doesn't use his ultimate attack, but that's small consolation without susie and ralsei to help soak up the damage
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Sep 19, 2021 06:23
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Alternate route: The part when Noelle (seemingly calmly) says "is that another enemy for me to freeze" to Berdly is great and I wish I kept the save I made just before it because that entire scene is what makes the route neat to me.
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Sep 19, 2021 06:23
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Digamma-F-Wau posted:I tested out the route myself and the ferris wheel part isn't actually needed Oh, thank goodness. So its more a sign you're doing it right than a necessary step.
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Sep 19, 2021 06:23
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Oxxidation posted:comparing the two, his genocide fight is also juiced up compared to the original - faster attack projectiles at the very least. he doesn't use his ultimate attack, but that's small consolation without susie and ralsei to help soak up the damage
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Sep 19, 2021 06:28
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Kinda tempted to get a Spamton avatar, but I really like my current Sam Neill one. Also holy poo poo at the alternate route. 
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Sep 19, 2021 06:35
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man this whole alternate route thing really puts a spin on all the ICE-E poo poo you see everywhere
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Sep 19, 2021 06:35
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Thinking about it, the biggest ramifications from this route aside from how Noelle was affected, is probably the fact that Ralsei had no opportunity to collude with Kris or discuss things with them this chapter because we refused to be astral projected. Wonder if that'll end up derailing things a bit.Oxxidation posted:comparing the two, his genocide fight is also juiced up compared to the original - faster attack projectiles at the very least. he doesn't use his ultimate attack, but that's small consolation without susie and ralsei to help soak up the damage Huh. I guess that would explain why else the fight was tougher. I was wondering why I had so much trouble dealing with his heart attack even though all forms of it are pretty free in the normal route.
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Sep 19, 2021 06:37
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probably not worth theorizing over yet, but I noticed something familiar the eye symbol that appears on the titans is the same as the eye symbol that's all over the walls at the very start of the dark world in Chapter 1:   feels intentional that this area you go through is just like the "endless eternal night" described by Ralsei, too, but I think it's too soon to draw any sort of conclusions.
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Sep 19, 2021 06:38
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kaleedity posted:man this whole alternate route thing really puts a spin on all the ICE-E poo poo you see everywhere Okay, this one I'm curious about.
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Sep 19, 2021 06:41
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Also, I just realized, the Noelle Genocide route basically confirms that 1997 is an important year. On top of showing up in the dialog of the various viruses as well as Spamton, it's also the price of the Thorn Ring, the item that essentially seals Noelle's fate for the route.
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Sep 19, 2021 06:45
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EclecticTastes posted:Also, I just realized, the Noelle Genocide route basically confirms that 1997 is an important year. On top of showing up in the dialog of the various viruses as well as Spamton, it's also the price of the Thorn Ring, the item that essentially seals Noelle's fate for the route. I GAVE YOU MY&[Commemorative Ring]&FOR THE PRICE OF&[My Favorite Year]!/%
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Sep 19, 2021 06:47
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Oxxidation posted:yeah, that part's the killer, because it's before any of the more obvious triggers and breaks the route if you deviate from it at all. this genocide route isn't just about making the numbers go up, it's about deliberately fostering noelle's psychological dependency on kris. in order to get this on your own, you'd have to go into this quirky rpg deliberately angling to not just kill every enemy you see, but to make the emotionally troubled white mage do the deed every time, while also pressuring her to leave all her agency up to you/the protagonist. this is not a train of thought most people naturally arrive at! it's perfectly utilitarian in a normal game with normal mechanics, but that's what makes it loving horrifying when those mechanics are fully developed characters with personalities and agendas and humanity conveyed on screen - Killing enemies makes you stronger - My healer is weak - I need to have them last-hit enemies so they "catch up" - I've had this thought myself in a lot of tactical-style RPGs - I've never had to convince a healer to do this against their will though and frankly I don't think I can - This also extends to exploiting Noelle's ability to freeze enemies before they flee--it's every Metal Slime hunting build ever (except the party member in question is (to reiterate) not down with this) - Also the Metal Slimes have families and poo poo - Even giving party members gifts or doing little events with them to increase their Social ranking or whatever is pretty normalized RPG biz at this point - Even FFVII had it to where you could manipulate dialogue choices to get a particular date on... (drumroll) a ferris wheel edit: sorry, a gondola, but you smell what I'm stepping in In short, I think it's the same concept as genocide mode in Undertale--it requires you to stop looking at the characters as characters and start looking at them as My Party Members In This RPG. Screw who they are, it is time for MAXIMUM POINTS. Deltarune is just hitting much, much more closer to home with what "completion" entails and what kind of things you need to do to maintain an attitude like that in a world that's more alive. If I'm not mistaken, one of Kris's titles is even something to the tune of Tactical Leader. It's the Gamer route, but from the perspective of someone playing a very different game than everyone else involved Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Sep 19, 2021 |
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Sep 19, 2021 06:47
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EclecticTastes posted:Also, I just realized, the Noelle Genocide route basically confirms that 1997 is an important year. On top of showing up in the dialog of the various viruses as well as Spamton, it's also the price of the Thorn Ring, the item that essentially seals Noelle's fate for the route. in his final fight text he mentions selling to you as the price of his favorite year, so it's just him
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Sep 19, 2021 06:47
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Oxxidation posted:more revelations from the Bad Time route I was beginning to wonder why the pacifist spamton neo fight has him talking directly to Kris so much and the repetition of "NOW YOU GET TO BE A BIG SHOT" makes it extra weird and kind of sad if that theory's true. It would also explain why Kris is more enthusiastic about eating moss in chapter 2
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Sep 19, 2021 06:50
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toby fox rules. I really loved chapter 2 but it felt like the game as a whole was missing a bit of seasoning compared to undertale and playing it the Other Way is exactly the spice I was looking for. can't wait for the rest of the game
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Sep 19, 2021 06:59
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comparing chapter 2 of a 7 (possibly more???) chapter game in deltarune to a completed game in undertale feels like an unfair comparison
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Sep 19, 2021 07:08
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 Oops.
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Sep 19, 2021 07:08
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zetamind2000 posted:I was beginning to wonder why the pacifist spamton neo fight has him talking directly to Kris so much and the repetition of "NOW YOU GET TO BE A BIG SHOT" makes it extra weird and kind of sad if that theory's true. It would also explain why Kris is more enthusiastic about eating moss in chapter 2 Part of it is that Kris is the only one present for most of those conversations; the rest of the party stays behind, and only shows up in front of Spamton as part of the rescue right before the battle
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Sep 19, 2021 07:08
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Jen X posted:comparing chapter 2 of a 7 (possibly more???) chapter game in deltarune to a completed game in undertale feels like an unfair comparison poo poo's practically as long as Undertale. Pretty sure it took me 8 hours to get through it all, and that's before learning about the Genocide route! As for how many of those hours were Hometown and Mytown dialogue checking, I plead the fifth.
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Sep 19, 2021 07:12
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Have I forgotten something from chapter 1 that would explain why Ralsei can visit other dark worlds and other Darkners can visit Ralsei's castle without getting petrified or is that supposed to be an open mystery for the moment?
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Sep 19, 2021 07:25
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Pakled posted:Have I forgotten something from chapter 1 that would explain why Ralsei can visit other dark worlds and other Darkners can visit Ralsei's castle without getting petrified or is that supposed to be an open mystery for the moment? He explains the latter part, if you believe him. his fountain is apparently The Most Powerful One and any darkener can hang out under it's influence just fine.
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Sep 19, 2021 07:27
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Jen X posted:comparing chapter 2 of a 7 (possibly more???) chapter game in deltarune to a completed game in undertale feels like an unfair comparison is it? I know it's not near complete but even the 2013 undertale demo changed a lot depending on how you played. it doesn't have to retread the same themes or anything, but not being able to meaningfully affect anything through your choices in chapter 1 and chapter 2 except through an incredibly specific set of steps just made it feel like something was missing even though the rest of the game is insanely good
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Sep 19, 2021 07:28
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Pakled posted:Have I forgotten something from chapter 1 that would explain why Ralsei can visit other dark worlds and other Darkners can visit Ralsei's castle without getting petrified or is that supposed to be an open mystery for the moment? no, this is all new and very suspicious Ralsei also somehow has full knowledge of the real world which he drops in a conversation all casually
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Sep 19, 2021 07:28
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Your Computer posted:on an unrelated note have any of the non-clickbaiters gotten a chance to play through this yet? I loved watching people play Undertale and Deltarune ch. 1 but due to how much these games have blown up it's a crapshoot trying to find someone actually playing the games because they enjoy them Well, I think next week Laurentheflute will be doing a stream of this. She's pretty great.
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Sep 19, 2021 07:31
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Samovar posted:Well, I think next week Laurentheflute will be doing a stream of this. She's pretty great. Yeah? Awesome, she was the only streamer I followed live, it was really fun too watch her play. Oh, and still talking about the alternate route. I wonder if this will be the format going forward, that each chapter has a different person falling into the dark world, and you either helping them overcome their issues and becoming stronger people, or breaking them and turning them into stronger weapons that follow your command. Seriously, one of the creepier things in the other route was seeing Kris' class description change from something along the line of "Commands others on how to ACT in battles" to simply "Commands"
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Sep 19, 2021 07:39
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I can't wait for the whole thing, goddamn.
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Sep 19, 2021 07:49
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I'm gonna go crazy thinking about that PureCrystal
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Sep 19, 2021 07:50
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Lunatic Sledge posted:I'm gonna go crazy thinking about that PureCrystal I wonder if it's somehow made from getting those glowing shards? You can find one in the first chapter and one in chapter 2.
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Sep 19, 2021 07:51
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Played through all of the pacifist route, and was very satisfied, although I left it thinking "wow that was pretty saccharine compared to what I expected." Then I watched a playthrough of the Alt route. Jesus Christ, that is infinitely more difficult to sit through than Undertale's geno route. loving brilliant, but genuinely made me uneasy. 10/10
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Sep 19, 2021 07:58
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Grapplejack posted:in his final fight text he mentions selling to you as the price of his favorite year, so it's just him Just because it's his favorite year doesn't mean it's not significant (for example, why is it his favorite year?). Also, both Poppup and Virovirokun have text that reference 1997, as well. Also, as I said before, if we assume Deltarune takes place at the same time as Undertale, in its own universe, that would mean Asriel would have been born in 1997, as a college freshman would most likely be eighteen, and while Undertale keeps it vague at "201X", it wouldn't be unreasonable to simplify that to 2015, as that's the year the game came out. It lines up too well to be a mere coincidence. Also, possible foreshadowing for Chapter 3: When discussing "friends" with Spamton, one of the people he says we don't need is "Mike", which prompts a "serious" moment, after which he tells Kris not to trust Mike, saying "Don't believe [[anything you see on TV]]". TV, as in where chapter 3 will be taking place. Something tells me that this "Mike" is going to be the next secret boss (also microphone-themed).
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Sep 19, 2021 07:58
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NewMars posted:I wonder if it's somehow made from getting those glowing shards? You can find one in the first chapter and one in chapter 2. it's not on the fusion list, but I'd be lying if I said Glowshard and DogDollar both don't tickle something in my brain there's a tinge of paranoia I have to fight off every time a game tells me to sell something
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Sep 19, 2021 07:59
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Also, I'm assuming "Dess" is Noelle's older sister, December? Was there any more implication as to what happened with those two that I missed, or is it just left super ambiguous for now?
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Sep 19, 2021 07:59
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Lunatic Sledge posted:I'm gonna go crazy thinking about that PureCrystal What is it? The text description says PureCrystal - The shadow purified by the cat but I don't recall seeing it anywhere.
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Sep 19, 2021 08:00
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EclecticTastes posted:Just because it's his favorite year doesn't mean it's not significant (for example, why is it his favorite year?). Also, both Poppup and Virovirokun have text that reference 1997, as well. Also, as I said before, if we assume Deltarune takes place at the same time as Undertale, in its own universe, that would mean Asriel would have been born in 1997, as a college freshman would most likely be eighteen, and while Undertale keeps it vague at "201X", it wouldn't be unreasonable to simplify that to 2015, as that's the year the game came out. It lines up too well to be a mere coincidence. I think the allusions to 1997 are honestly just a bit of flavorful humor for Spamton being a dot com era salesperson in the 90s. As for Mike, I have no loving clue, but that's certainly a more concrete tick in the "plot-relevant" box than the year.
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Sep 19, 2021 08:01
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EclecticTastes posted:Also, possible foreshadowing for Chapter 3: When discussing "friends" with Spamton, one of the people he says we don't need is "Mike", which prompts a "serious" moment, after which he tells Kris not to trust Mike, saying "Don't believe [[anything you see on TV]]". TV, as in where chapter 3 will be taking place. Something tells me that this "Mike" is going to be the next secret boss (also microphone-themed). I'm just spoiling this because you spoiled yours but Mike is also the name of the kid who gets sucked into the TV in Willy Wonka's factory I'm sure it's a coincidence, unless it isn't I had to edit this like five times because I have never read a book before Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Sep 19, 2021 |
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Sep 19, 2021 08:02
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