PC Building, Upgrading, and Parts Picking: Everything is pretty fast now (except AMD)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > PC Building, Upgrading, and Parts Picking: Everything is pretty fast now (except AMD)

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Alereon: Feb 6, 2004; Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed; College Slice

uaciaut posted:

I'm probably detracting attention from my dumb enigma but i've seen some points made in the post you linked to combated in the thread afterwards:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3348051&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=145#post434293606
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3348051&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=145#post434292912
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3348051&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=145#post434295885

With no further reply from you, so when BurritoJustice said you brought up arguments that you didn't stick to when argued against and then you reply with just quoting what you said before and ignore everything else you do lose some credibility.

Not saying that you're completely in the wrong here, i'm far less knowledgeable atm than anyone involved in the debate and i'd much rather hear some sort of consensus reached especially since i did choose to buy an asrock z97 extreme4 and i'm genuinely curious if i made a bad choice by not going with an Asus Z97-A given how close both were in price.

I expect a lot of debate here to be based on whether the components that one company use for their motherboards are of good quality compared to the other or whatnot but personally as long as my mb isn't gonna loving poo poo the bed on me withing the next 4-5 years and it does the job properly albeit with like maybe 3% less efficiency less than an Asus mb of similar pricing because of the component quality (although an Asus board of similar quality will be far more than 3% more expensive than an Asrock counterpart) then i'd rather stick with an ASrock.

If ASrock models are really likely to start having issues as time moves on then that's a whole other matter and i'd very much like to know if that's true.

It's a little frustrating when I take a long time to write a really detailed post that explains how things actually work with links and evidence so I'm not just saying "this is the way it is because I said so", but so that people can actually learn and make better choices and recommendations, and then people just post the exact same bullshit I just debunked in response. And yes, the entire issue we're talking about here is the quality of the motherboard, which goes to reliability, longevity, and just how well the drat thing works. Nonetheless, because it's not really appropriate to derail this thread, I just posted a new thread:

Motherboards: how they work and how to choose one

This would be a great place to discuss what makes motherboards good and the quality differences between them. To be clear, this thread I just posted does not in any way replace this thread for motherboard recommendations, it replaces this thread for in-depth discussion of motherboards and which boards should be recommended.

Skwee posted:

I probably would have gotten that motherboard if it wasn't for the audio driver problems I read about. My current motherboard had similar issues where my computer would bsod in games that had punkbuster due to the onboard audio drivers. Kind of a ridiculous issue that I ended up fixing by finding a super old sound card that was laying around in my house. My current mobo also has issues with extremely sensitive USB ports, where if I even slightly bump something it will disconnect and if I want to get it to work again I have to plug it in multiple times for it to even register and/or restart my computer.

Also why I was pretty stressed trying to make sure that the motherboard I chose wasn't going to be garbage (Or have any huge issues like the audio problems I read about for that mobo)

I am not giving advice of course, as I came here seeking it, but I did read about that card in particular having problems I was familiar with on my current one, so that is why I avoided it.

The Gigabyte board you're looking at uses the same onboard audio as the HERO, which is the same as pretty much all decent motherboards: the Realtek ALC1150. They use the same Realtek-provided drivers.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 03:55

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 20:25

BurritoJustice: Oct 9, 2012

Alereon posted:

I explained to you in the Intel thread, from first loving principles, what makes a good motherboard versus a bad motherboard, and how to tell whether a motherboard is good or bad. Here is the effortpost I made on the topic. I'm not going to tell you you have to agree with me, but I am going to tell you you have to stop telling people in this thread that quality isn't worth paying for. So stop.

I need you (and everyone who wants to give advice about computers, particularly in this thread) to understand that value means the quality you get for the price you pay. The Asus ROG MAXIMUS VII Hero is basically the definition of a great value you motherboard, it delivers an incredible amount of quality for the price. Not everyone needs a motherboard that's that good, and for someone building a lower-end system it would be much smarter to get a lower-end board and spend that money somewhere more important, but for a gaming or higher-end system it's an excellent choice. It's always reasonable to ask someone to consider whether the additional quality is worth paying for for them, to argue that there isn't a quality difference between a cheaper board and a better board is simply idiotic.

Once again you have completely ignored half my post, and misunderstood the rest. I am not saying the Hero is a bad board, and I am certainly not saying that there isn't a different between poo poo boards and quality boards. What I actually said was;

BurritoJustice posted:

There are good quality, similarly or better featured boards for less money.

I am not telling people to buy crap boards, I am saying that there are very high quality boards for less money if you aren't paying the ASUS tax, especially the ROG tax. You made a big effort post about how lovely you think ASRock boards are, yes, but like I said;

BurritoJustice posted:

Also, please, provide a single piece of evidence for your hatred of ASRock boards. Last time we had this argument you stopped responding once I, along with other posters, called out your theories about trace quality.

Back to your original post. I called out basically every problem with it back then, as did other posters, but you ignored them. Let's go through it again, shall we.

First up;

Alereon posted:

Audio quality is the best, most easily measured example of #1. When you measure the audio output quality of a motherboard you're measuring how well the designer isolated the analog audio signals from the other traces and sources of interference on the board. Poor isolation causes audible hiss and noise in the background of audio that changes based on system activity, which can be very annoying. The audio section from the Asrock Z97 Extreme 6 upthread illustrates this well, all the boards with the same audio chip get similar dynamic range scores, but despite being a higher-end board the Asrock Z97 Extreme 6 has THD+N scores similar to mid-range mothebroards. Their less expensive boards would be further down that chart.

TH-D results are NOT just based off trace quality. Nearby components, routing, shielding, interference from the room that it is tested in all play a part. This is the ONLY BENCHMARK you can pull where the Extreme6 doesn't excel, and as I said in my earlier post, it is certainly not terrible. High end motherboards from EVGA, MSI, Gigabyte, and ASUS all post worse results in that exact same test. This includes the Rampage IV Extreme that is over FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS. Assuming that the whole board has "poor quality tracing" is a huge jump in logic from that one result.

Anandtech hasn't done a review of the VII Hero, but here is the Impact which uses the same audio hardware in theory (SupremeFX)

-78.2 is, ironically enough, the same result that the Extreme6 got.

Next;

Alereon posted:

The number of VRM phases and the quality of the capacitors selected is a simple component choice issue

Alereon posted:

That's a board loaded with typically higher-end features, but with a mid-range price corners have been cut to get there. Some of those, like the limited number of VRM phases, are pretty reasonable.

Do you read up on anything before you post? The ASRock uses MORE power phases than the Hero and the Z97-A that I was originally referring to, and they aren't cheaper, they are better. They both use top tier caps from Nippon Chemi-Con (the best caps you can buy) except the ASRock has 12 phases using the 12K rated "Platinum" caps, whereas the Asus uses eight phases of the 10K rated "Black" caps.

Next up, PCI-E power connectors.

Alereon posted:

Extreme high-end boards typically do have at least one additional 8-pin power connector to handle a large number of cards. Very low-end boards on which a lot of corners have been cut have a SATA power connector or a molex connector. The $400 Asus X99 Deluxe does not have any additional power connectors and it is meant to take four PCI-E 3.0 x16 cards, plus an x4. It has the build quality to power its slots without additional power connectors, the Asrock board does not.

I have said this so many times that it isn't funny. That additional connector is an optional feature. It is usually used on halo tier boards for companies that expect the board to be drawing large amounts of power. It has nothing to due with the power load on the traces, and everything to do with not burning out your 24-pin connector. As Bob Howard helpfully said in his actual effort post,

BobHoward posted:

75W per card * 5 = 375W
Haswell-E: 140W, potentially a lot more if overclocking
Total budget (ignoring anything else that might need to draw from 12V going to the motherboard): 515W (no OC), 600+ (OC)

EATX main connector: two 12V pins, 8A max each (that being the Molex connector's rated limit per pin, wire gauge matters too)
8-pin EATX 12V connector: four 12V pins, 8A max each

6*8A*12V = 576W

Safe if not overclocking, but if you are? Forget about it. Asus is relying on the fact that most high end GPUs draw very little power through the PCIe slot.

Also your theory that adding (relatively expensive) molex connectors is a viable way of reducing the total board cost by saving money on traces is somewhat unlikely. A plane of generic 2oz copper can carry rather a lot of current. Perhaps there are some cheapass motherboards which actually do try to save insignificant amounts of money by using blank copper clad with thinner-than-normal plating, but this will probably cause CPU issues long before PCIe. CPUs are a much tougher power delivery problem: low voltage at ridiculously high amps, with vastly less tolerance for voltage droop.

Alereon posted:

Extreme high-end boards typically do have at least one additional 8-pin power connector to handle a large number of cards. Very low-end boards on which a lot of corners have been cut have a SATA power connector or a molex connector.

I don't even know what to say to this. Extremely low end you say? Like the Rampage V Extreme X99 is low end? It sure as hell uses a molex connector. Like I said, they are used these days as most people who will want to use that connector will be short on PCI-E plugs. It is a convenience choice.

Oh and finally, this one is good, DPC latency et al.

Alereon posted:

BIOS quality comes down to three main factors, POST time, DPC latency, and power usage.

Man that is some seriously bad DPC latency. Better than every ASUS board ever, because it is the best.

My favourite part about this one is that it is also the best they have tested once they optimised the POST time. Also better than the ASUS

Also here it is drawing twenty less watts than the substantially more expensive Asus board in their tests.

All these really point towards a poor BIOS, yeah?

I'm pretty sure that covers everything, but if you want to talk about it more we can take this to PM's Alereon. Or, alternatively, you can ignore all this and probate me. Seems more your style.

Edit: Your new thread is cute, but it still takes literally one benchmark that is not even bad and tries to use it to assess an entire motherboard.

BurritoJustice fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Sep 21, 2014

# ? Sep 21, 2014 04:16

The Lord Bude: May 23, 2007; ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

Tytanium posted:

I posted before, but I currently have a GTX 670 and I'm looking to upgrade to the 980. Not planning on doing any other upgrades for at least a year (pretty well set with everything else, video card is the oldest hardware in my system). Should I, or should I get a 970? I currently play games at 1920x1200, for reference.

Even a 970 is gross overkill for 1920x1200, it's just that the performance per dollar is so completely bonkers that people should probably just get one. If you wanted to save some money and grab a 280X or something (especially if they get a price drop) that would also be perfectly reasonable.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 05:08

The Lord Bude: May 23, 2007; ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

everythingWasBees posted:

So I'd like to to finish off the desktop I purchased earlier with a dedicated graphics card, a hard drive to replace the 5400 RPM Laptop Harddrive in there currently, grab a wireless card, and pick up a decent mechanical keyboard. This is what it's looking like so far:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor (Purchased For $0.00)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (Purchased For $0.00)
Memory: Kingston Fury Black Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (Purchased For $0.00)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (Purchased For $0.00)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card ($356.13 @ Newegg)
Case: Silverstone PS07W (White) MicroATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $0.00)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply (Purchased For $0.00)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer (Purchased For $0.00)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit) (Purchased For $0.00)
Monitor: Dell U2414H 60Hz 23.8" Monitor (Purchased For $0.00)
Wireless Network Adapter: Intel 62205ANHMWDTX1 802.11a/b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($42.99 @ Newegg)
Mouse: Logitech G502 Wired Optical Mouse (Purchased For $0.00)
Other: KUL ES-87 (Cherry MX Brown) ($129.00)
Total: $588.11
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-20 18:55 EDT-0400

Does this look alright? Is there a different wireless card I might want instead? Should I maybe increase the RAM instead of getting the hard drive?

Also, does it matter what brand of SATA III cable I buy? I'm kinda out.

At the moment, Samsung 840EVOs have been discovered to have a bug which makes reads on old data relatively slow. Samsung is aware of the issue, and has announced that they will release a firmware update to fix the issue. I'm in two minds here:

Notwithstanding this issue, the EVOs are the best choice drives, due to the performance advantage of Rapid mode. If you're comfortable buying a drive with a known issue, on the understanding that a fix is pending, then buy it. Otherwise, you may want to pop into the SSD thread and consider other options.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 05:12

The Lord Bude: May 23, 2007; ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

Hreinhold posted:

The HDD in my 7+ year old desktop just bit the dust, so I decided to use the opportunity to upgrade the whole thing.

I'd like to keep the graphic card and power supply from my old one, an ATI Radeon HIS 1g and Corsair VX550W. They're both 4.5 years old, so I should probably replace the PSU? If so what would you recommend? I'll also use the DVD player from the old one.
code:
781888	Corsair Carbide 330R Midi Tower Black

815203	Intel Core i5-4590
- Socket-LGA1150, Quad Core, 3.3GHz, 6MB, 84W, 22nm, HD4600, Boxed w/fan
	
817147	ASUS H97I-PLUS, Socket-1150
- mini-ITX, H97, DDR3, 1xPCIe-x16, Intel GbLAN, VGA, DVI, HDMI, DP, M.2	

812856	HyperX Fury DDR3 1866MHz 8GB Black
- 2x4GB 1866MHz DDR3 CL10 DIMM (Kit of 2) HyperX Fury Black Series PnP	

791617	Samsung SSD 840 EVO 120GB OEM
- Basic KIT, 540/410MB/s read/write, Samsung MEX controller	

757761	WD Red 1TB NAS Harddrive
- SATA 6Gb/s (SATA 3.0), 64MB, 3.5", 24x7 reliability, IntelliPower,	

798697	Microsoft Windows 8.1
- English, full, DVD	
Anything I've forgotten here, or some other stupid choices? What about the mother board, I have no idea what kind I should get.
Roughly what kind of performance would I get from this set-up? I don't play many modern games, but I'd like the ability run future games like the new Witcher3 smoothly on medium or higher settings.

Yes, you should definitely replace the power supply, the VX series was a very low end model even when it came out. Get a 450w Seasonic, Rosewill Capstone, or XFX PSU. You don't need a mini ITX motherboard since you're using an mATX case, just get an mATX board.

Graphics card wise, the GTX970 just came out and is ridiculously awesome in performance and value, but you could also get a cheaper radeon 280X or something if you can't afford it.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 05:15

GrizzlyCow: May 30, 2011

BurritoJustice posted:

Oh and finally, this one is good, DPC latency et al.

Man that is some seriously bad DPC latency. Better than every ASUS board ever, because it is the best.

This is disingenuous as gently caress. You're literally comparing Z87 motherboards with a Z97 motherboard. Z87 have a known issue with DPC latency. It's not like a real comparison between ASUS Z97 and ASRock's would hurt your point.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 06:47

BurritoJustice: Oct 9, 2012

GrizzlyCow posted:

This is disingenuous as gently caress. You're literally comparing Z87 motherboards with a Z97 motherboard. Z87 have a known issue with DPC latency. It's not like a real comparison between ASUS Z97 and ASRock's would hurt your point.

I was in a bit of a hurry and it was a big post to make :shobon:

. I just grabbed the data from Anandtech's Extreme6 review. I thought it was notable enough that it had (and continues to have) the lowest DPC latency they have ever tested, and it amazing enough that it doesn't even really need to be compared to anything to see that if you have seen DPC figures before.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 06:54

Anthony Chuzzlewit: Oct 26, 2008; good for healthy

So I've got a i5 3350P (3.10 GHz). If I get a GTX 970 would I need to worry about CPU bottlenecking? I'm running a GTX 570 right now and I'm trying to decide if I should upgrade the GPU now, or wait and replace the whole system in a year or two.

I mostly play shooters so I'd like to get my fps pretty high. Ideally I'd get the 970, and also replace my aging yellow-tinted-rear end monitor with the 144Hz 1080p one with the Gsync kit.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 07:53

my kinda ape: Sep 15, 2008; Everything's gonna be A-OK; Oven Wrangler

Upgraded most of my PC late last year and thought I could get away with using a cheap Gigabyte motherboard :downs:

Gonna get an ASRock Extreme4 and smash this Gigabyte POS into a billion pieces, gently caress Gigabyte forever.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 09:19

Chickpea Roar: Jan 11, 2006; Merdre!

The Lord Bude posted:

Yes, you should definitely replace the power supply, the VX series was a very low end model even when it came out. Get a 450w Seasonic, Rosewill Capstone, or XFX PSU. You don't need a mini ITX motherboard since you're using an mATX case, just get an mATX board.

Graphics card wise, the GTX970 just came out and is ridiculously awesome in performance and value, but you could also get a cheaper radeon 280X or something if you can't afford it.

Thanks. I switched out the motherboard with this:

ASUS H97M-PLUS, Socket-1150
- m-ATX, H97, DDR3, 2xPCIe-x16, CFX, VGA, DVI, HDMI, M.2

and I'm looking at this PSU:

XFX ProSeries Core Edition 650W PSU
- ATX 12V V2.31, 80 Plus Bronze, Standard, 2x 6pin PCIe, 2x 6+2pin PCIe, 8x SATA

I'm probably gonna keep the old graphics card until anything new I can't run is released.

New set-up:

code:

Corsair Carbide 330R Midi Tower Black

Intel Core i5-4590
- Socket-LGA1150, Quad Core, 3.3GHz, 6MB, 84W, 22nm, HD4600, Boxed w/fan	

HyperX Fury DDR3 1866MHz 8GB Black
- 2x4GB 1866MHz DDR3 CL10 DIMM (Kit of 2) HyperX Fury Black Series PnP	

Samsung SSD 840 EVO 120GB OEM
- Basic KIT, 540/410MB/s read/write, Samsung MEX controller	

WD Red 1TB NAS Harddrive
- SATA 6Gb/s (SATA 3.0), 64MB, 3.5", 24x7 reliability, IntelliPower,	

Microsoft Windows 8.1
- English, full, DVD	

ASUS H97M-PLUS, Socket-1150
- m-ATX, H97, DDR3, 2xPCIe-x16, CFX, VGA, DVI, HDMI, M.2	

XFX ProSeries Core Edition 650W PSU
- ATX 12V V2.31, 80 Plus Bronze, Standard, 2x 6pin PCIe, 2x 6+2pin PCIe, 8x SATA

# ? Sep 21, 2014 13:03

Humerus: Jul 7, 2009; Rule of acquisition #111:
Treat people in your debt like family...exploit them.

If the GTX970 is overkill for 1080, how would it fair for 1440? Or is that moving into 980 territory?

# ? Sep 21, 2014 17:49

1gnoirents: Jun 28, 2014; hello

Humerus posted:

If the GTX970 is overkill for 1080, how would it fair for 1440? Or is that moving into 980 territory?

Yes for 1080p. But its so much value for the money compared to other offerings near the same price that its going to be the go-to recommendation until the 960 comes out if it fits the budget. It seems nice for 1440p, its up there with reference 780tis

# ? Sep 21, 2014 17:52

Zero VGS: Aug 16, 2002; ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE; Lipstick Apathy

What is the smallest dual-gpu supporting case? Bitfenix Prodigy M?

# ? Sep 21, 2014 18:43

Proud Christian Mom: Dec 20, 2006; READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

The 970 pretty much screams, 'Hey 16:10/1200p guys buy me and then never upgrade your monitors/resolution again"

# ? Sep 21, 2014 18:44

uaciaut: Mar 20, 2008; :splurp:

This is probably a really, really dumb question but here goes: can i install a PCIe x1 device into a PCIe x16 slot.
I basically want to get a Xonar sound-card at some point but looking at the layout of my motherboard and how much space the video card takes, p much all the PCIe x1 slots are non-usable.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 19:02

Skwee: Apr 29, 2010; たべる　つくる
つくる　たべる
たべる　つくる
ふたり　ドゥビドゥバ

uaciaut posted:

This is probably a really, really dumb question but here goes: can i install a PCIe x1 device into a PCIe x16 slot.
I basically want to get a Xonar sound-card at some point but looking at the layout of my motherboard and how much space the video card takes, p much all the PCIe x1 slots are non-usable.

I believe so.

from the video in the OP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea_bs5G1yYU&t=1578s

Skwee fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Sep 21, 2014

# ? Sep 21, 2014 19:09

Brain Issues: Dec 16, 2004; lol

uaciaut posted:

This is probably a really, really dumb question but here goes: can i install a PCIe x1 device into a PCIe x16 slot.
I basically want to get a Xonar sound-card at some point but looking at the layout of my motherboard and how much space the video card takes, p much all the PCIe x1 slots are non-usable.

Yup, you can. I have my x1 wireless card installed into a x16 slot.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 19:14

GrizzlyCow: May 30, 2011

Zero VGS posted:

What is the smallest dual-gpu supporting case? Bitfenix Prodigy M?

Probably the NCase M1. The BitFenix Prodigy is just a small mATX case. Though, it probably depends on which card you are specifically talking about. The Titan-Z is a three slot card, but it'd fit anything that'll allow 10.5". The R9 295X is like a foot long but only 2-slot wide, so it'd require a slightly longer case. The Sugo SG07 can support the full length of the 5970.

GrizzlyCow fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Sep 21, 2014

# ? Sep 21, 2014 19:21

Zero VGS: Aug 16, 2002; ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE; Lipstick Apathy

I should have clarified, I'm talking about two GPUs, like SLI/Crossfire, not a single two-slot GPU.

Edit: I move my PC around a lot so I got a LAN party bag for a Deep Silence 1 and even though the weight is no problem it's still so ungainly that it's a pain. So the Prodigy M seems like the smallest case that'll take my two GPUs and the handles are a huge bonus.

Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Sep 21, 2014

# ? Sep 21, 2014 19:45

Factory Factory: Mar 19, 2010; This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.

GrizzlyCow was talking about CF/SLI-on-a-card systems, so technically that was indeed what you meant. :v:

But for two GPUs on two separate video cards, that does in fact require micro ATX.

Some people have modded an ITX Prodigy for holding an mATX board:

But in terms of stock cases, the Prodigy M is probably the most realistic. Silverstone's Sugo SG09 or SG10 are options, too, but they don't have handles. If you can tolerate the puzzle-box design of Silverstone's SFF cases, those are probably the smallest way to get a high-performance SLI system with a minimum of compromises.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 20:03

Nettle Soup: Jan 30, 2010; Oh, and Jones was there too.

Putting together something for my cousin, he's 10 and needs something that'll play Spore, basic steam games and Minecraft with as many mods as he can throw at it. It needs to be low maintenance and fairly cheap as I can't get around there often and nobody around him knows much about computers. This is what I've come up with:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G3220 3.0GHz Dual-Core Processor (�39.10 @ CCL Computers)
Motherboard: ASRock H81M-DGS Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (�40.69 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Kingston 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (�29.68 @ Ebuyer)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (�79.99 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon R7 250X 1GB Video Card (�64.98 @ Ebuyer)
Case: Fractal Design Core 1000 MicroATX Mini Tower Case (�33.58 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: XFX ProSeries 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (�35.09 @ Aria PC)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer (�10.98 @ CCL Computers)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) (�69.65 @ CCL Computers)
Case Fan: Arctic Cooling Arctic F9 43.0 CFM 92mm Fan (�2.99 @ Ebuyer)
Total: �406.73
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-21 20:25 BST+0100

How's it look? Will it all fit in that tiny case? Is Kingston ram ok? I swear by their USB sticks.

Really I'm trying to make something he can grow, he can throw in another stick of ram and a backup HD once he needs it and his mother is willing to spend money again, I assume he can upgrade the CPU to an i-whatever eventually without changing the motherboard and the R7 seemed solid for the price? I told her roughly what it'd cost and she honestly can't believe that a computer can cost over �300 so I'm trying to keep it <�400.

I picked Windows 7 over 8 because I need to be able to do things from a distance over Steam chat, it needs to be low maintenance and has to run his older games without issues.

Nettle Soup fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Sep 21, 2014

# ? Sep 21, 2014 20:57

b0nes: Sep 11, 2001

I'm putting a system together over time, buying cheap parts whenever I see them on sale. Is this a good buy?
Antec 380W Power Supplyhttps://www.dailysteals.com/p/32009...Universal-Input

# ? Sep 21, 2014 21:31

Grapeshot: Oct 21, 2010

I'm stuck buying a power supply at Micro Center in a hurry and basically all they have that looks decent is eVGA, Antec VP series and Corsair Builder and CX. What's the best option out of that limited field?

e:it's for a Core 2 Quad with Radeon 7850 so it doesn't need to be too great but it does need to last.

Grapeshot fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Sep 21, 2014

# ? Sep 21, 2014 22:27

GrizzlyCow: May 30, 2011

Nettle Soup posted:

Putting together something for my cousin, he's 10 and needs something that'll play Spore, basic steam games and Minecraft with as many mods as he can throw at it. It needs to be low maintenance and fairly cheap as I can't get around there often and nobody around him knows much about computers. This is what I've come up with:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

How's it look? Will it all fit in that tiny case? Is Kingston ram ok? I swear by their USB sticks.

Really I'm trying to make something he can grow, he can throw in another stick of ram and a backup HD once he needs it and his mother is willing to spend money again, I assume he can upgrade the CPU to an i-whatever eventually without changing the motherboard and the R7 seemed solid for the price? I told her roughly what it'd cost and she honestly can't believe that a computer can cost over �300 so I'm trying to keep it <�400.

I picked Windows 7 over 8 because I need to be able to do things from a distance over Steam chat, it needs to be low maintenance and has to run his older games without issues.

RAM is a commodity item; no need to worry about brand.

You don't need to worry about fans; your case will come with their own.

You probably don't need a DVD Burner. You can handle mostly everything through the internet and thumbdrives.

Yeah, you can upgrade to an i5 from a Pentium. That's probably not the most cost-effective option.

Windows 8(.1.1) is pretty much compatible with every game that Windows 7 is. I play mostly older games, and the only game I ever had a problem with which worked fine on Windows 7 was Arcanum. You can configure Windows 8.1 to operate like Windows 7 UI-wise, and Steam works perfectly on Windows 8(.1). So given that, I will urge you to at least try Windows 8.1 before making a decision. If you dislike the Charm and Metro UI, Classic Shell can remove that for you.

The R7 250X can handle most non-AAA games at FHD and do alright with modern AAA games at HD or 1600x900.

Everything else seems just fine to me.

edit:

Also, the 840 EVO is having a performance issue that will probably be fixed within a month. If you're not comfortable with doing a firmware update sometime after you build the thing, I recommend the Intel 530 or PNY XLR8 Pro (as per the SSD thread). Or, if you want to be very cheap, the MX100. The 530 (and XLR8 Pro) will probably need less maintenance anyway since TRIM isn't critical for their operation.

fake edit:

Grapeshot posted:

I'm stuck buying a power supply at Micro Center in a hurry and basically all they have that looks decent is eVGA, Antec VP series and Corsair Builder and CX. What's the best option out of that limited field?

Depends. What are the exact models? EVGA has some good PSUs and some mediocre ones. The Builder and CX series are not ideal, but they are better than the VP450 at least. None of them will probably blow up your computer.

GrizzlyCow fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Sep 21, 2014

# ? Sep 21, 2014 22:29

Grapeshot: Oct 21, 2010

I went ahead and got the eVGA 600B Bronze, should do the job even though I seriously doubt I'll see the rebate.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 22:41

Zero VGS: Aug 16, 2002; ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE; Lipstick Apathy

I checked out the bitfenix prodigy M at Microcenter and I'm glad I looked first, those handles it has suck and are really sharp. I wonder if I can build a case with an matx motherboard, two graphics cards, SSD, CLC for the cpu, PSU and just wrap it all into the smallest steel cube I can.

Nettle Soup posted:

Putting together something for my cousin, he's 10 and needs something that'll play Spore, basic steam games and Minecraft with as many mods as he can throw at it.

Buy a prebuilt Dell or whatever, people here were finding 3rd gen i3 systems on eBay for less than $300 USD shipped. Or outlet.dell.com or the Lenovo outlet. If the integrated graphics doesn't run well enough for those games you can toss in a single fan GTX 750ti, those will run on any stock power supply.

# ? Sep 21, 2014 23:46

themongol: Apr 30, 2006; Let us celebrate our agreement with the adding of chocolate to milk.

Trying to put a ~1000 Canadian system together for the first time in years.

Can people review and critique please?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-4150 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($120.98 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($69.00 @ Vuugo)
Memory: *Kingston 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($77.34 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Sandisk Solid State Drive 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($62.50 @ Vuugo)
Video Card: *Club 3D Radeon R9 280X 3GB royalQueen Video Card ($279.99 @ NCIX)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($54.97 @ DirectCanada)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ NCIX)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($104.99 @ NCIX)
Monitor: BenQ GL2460HM 60Hz 24.0" Monitor ($159.00 @ Canada Computers)
Speakers: Logitech S120 2.3W 2ch Speakers ($11.50 @ Vuugo)
Total: $995.26
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-21 18:56 EDT-0400

# ? Sep 21, 2014 23:56

Zero VGS: Aug 16, 2002; ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE; Lipstick Apathy

themongol posted:

Trying to put a ~1000 Canadian system together for the first time in years.

Can people review and critique please?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-4150 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($120.98 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($69.00 @ Vuugo)
Memory: *Kingston 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($77.34 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Sandisk Solid State Drive 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($62.50 @ Vuugo)
Video Card: *Club 3D Radeon R9 280X 3GB royalQueen Video Card ($279.99 @ NCIX)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($54.97 @ DirectCanada)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ NCIX)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($104.99 @ NCIX)
Monitor: BenQ GL2460HM 60Hz 24.0" Monitor ($159.00 @ Canada Computers)
Speakers: Logitech S120 2.3W 2ch Speakers ($11.50 @ Vuugo)
Total: $995.26
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-21 18:56 EDT-0400

That motherboard will overclock the G3258, which will then run as fast as the i3 you picked at half the price.

Your motherboard is micro ATX so get a micro ATX case, not a mid tower atx case. Get something like the Corsair 350D.

Get two 4gb DDR3-1333 sticks to save money and gave better performance.

That monitor isn't IPS, don't you dare. You can get an IPS the same size for the same price.

# ? Sep 22, 2014 00:18

GrizzlyCow: May 30, 2011

themongol posted:

Trying to put a ~1000 Canadian system together for the first time in years.

Can people review and critique please?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
Storage: Sandisk Solid State Drive 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($62.50 @ Vuugo)

That SSD is so "value" that SanDisk didn't even bother to name it. It's terrible! Do not buy it. Spend 5 dollars for a Ultra Plus or :10bux:

for a MX100. The Samsung 840 EVO is an actual good SSD, but it is encountering some problems, so you may want to spend a little more and get an Intel 530.

# ? Sep 22, 2014 00:36

Nettle Soup: Jan 30, 2010; Oh, and Jones was there too.

GrizzlyCow posted:

RAM is a commodity item; no need to worry about brand.

...

Everything else seems just fine to me.

edit:

Also, the 840 EVO is having a performance issue that will probably be fixed within a month. If you're not comfortable with doing a firmware update sometime after you build the thing, I recommend the Intel 530 or PNY XLR8 Pro (as per the SSD thread). Or, if you want to be very cheap, the MX100. The 530 (and XLR8 Pro) will probably need less maintenance anyway since TRIM isn't critical for their operation.

Fan: Yeah but for �2.99 I'm not gonna worry. I nicked the original build off somebody else and it was in there and I never removed it.
Optical drive: He has like, these round disc things and apparently they have games on? He gets them from a shop or something, I don't know, I thought they'd all gone bust. (Seriously: He has old games he'll wanna install and it's only �10, it was the cheapest rated optical drive on there)

I've had issues with Win 8 on my mums laptop, it's not wanted to run a couple of games for her (Sims 2 for one), it gets in the way a bit, and if I'm having to diagnose problems for him from a distance then I want to know it's not an issue with the OS rather than the game. I'm rarely gonna see it in person, he doesn't know how to change themes or anything and he's used to XP. I don't wanna deal with it just yet.

Yeah I might just switch out the evo... Thanks. Good to know!

I looked up a load of <$500 builds first and for some reason they all seemed much more expensive here when I switched them over. Looking at the Dell UK Outlet they don't seem to have a huge amount for less than what I've put together up there, the cheapest I could see was still �400 with VAT and postage. ebay doesn't seem that much better, but I'll keep an eye out!

# ? Sep 22, 2014 01:02

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

I've decided that consoles can go gently caress themselves and in the next year or so will be building my own Steambox/HTPC. I'm once again thankful for being a goon because the amount of info in the OP is astounding.

# ? Sep 22, 2014 02:06

Zarkov Cortez: Aug 18, 2007; Alas, our kitten class attack ships were no match for their mighty chairs

I haven't been keeping up with PC developments (particularly on the video card side) but I am interested in building a new gaming/media computer.

Currently I have a Dell U2711 and Dell U2713HM, which I usually reduce the resolution on when I am gaming (U2711 for the games), but it would be cool if I didn't have to.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($230.98 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($99.95 @ Vuugo)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($190.95 @ Vuugo)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($249.00 @ Canada Computers)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($219.00 @ Canada Computers)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB Superclocked ACX Video Card ($384.99 @ Memory Express)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ NCIX)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($104.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $1569.85 (Canadian)

Thoughts?

Zarkov Cortez fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Sep 22, 2014

# ? Sep 22, 2014 02:37

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Zarkov Cortez posted:

I haven't been keeping up with PC developments (particularly on the video card side) but I am interested in building a new gaming/media computer.

Currently I have a Dell U2711 and Dell U2713HM, which I usually reduce the resolution on when I am gaming (U2711 for the games), but it would be cool if I didn't have to.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($230.98 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($99.95 @ Vuugo)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($190.95 @ Vuugo)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($249.00 @ Canada Computers)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($219.00 @ Canada Computers)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB Superclocked ACX Video Card ($384.99 @ Memory Express)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ NCIX)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($104.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $1569.85

Thoughts?

You'd be fine with 2x4GB of ram
e: and changing the WD black to red

# ? Sep 22, 2014 02:41

Zero VGS: Aug 16, 2002; ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE; Lipstick Apathy

That motherboard has four ram slots, get two 4gb sticks for now and only go up to 16gb if you find yourself running out of memory (you won't).

500gb ssd and 4tb platter strikes me as a lot, you might want to try the 240gb Evo with the free "Steam Mover" app to shuffle your games between that and platter drive. Maybe get a 2tb drive and add another when you fill it.

You're going to want to pick a case to put all that in.

Edit: remember, that motherboard will overclock a G3258, you'll get much more performance to the dollar than the CPU you picked for your use case if you want to try that route.

Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Sep 22, 2014

# ? Sep 22, 2014 02:46

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

My old Athlon II x4 640 computer is finally giving out. I'm pretty sure the motherboard is dying. I don't have a lot of money to spend on this, so I'm wondering if a decent H97 motherboard paired with the Pentium G3220 would be a worthwhile upgrade? Would something like this feel a lot faster (I'm guessing yes?). Should I really be spending a bit more for an i3 or i5 instead?

# ? Sep 22, 2014 04:12

Monday_: Feb 18, 2006; Worked-up silent dork without sex ability seeks oblivion and demise.; The Great Twist

fart simpson posted:

My old Athlon II x4 640 computer is finally giving out. I'm pretty sure the motherboard is dying. I don't have a lot of money to spend on this, so I'm wondering if a decent H97 motherboard paired with the Pentium G3220 would be a worthwhile upgrade? Would something like this feel a lot faster (I'm guessing yes?). Should I really be spending a bit more for an i3 or i5 instead?

The G3258 is the Pentium that overclocks, that's the one you want.

# ? Sep 22, 2014 04:18

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

Oh, then I should be getting that and a Z97 board maybe?

# ? Sep 22, 2014 04:24

Monday_: Feb 18, 2006; Worked-up silent dork without sex ability seeks oblivion and demise.; The Great Twist

fart simpson posted:

Oh, then I should be getting that and a Z97 board maybe?

If you have a Micro Center nearby, they have a deal for CPU/mobo for $100. If not, it might be better to go H97 with an i3.

# ? Sep 22, 2014 04:33

GrizzlyCow: May 30, 2011

Zarkov Cortez posted:

I haven't been keeping up with PC developments (particularly on the video card side) but I am interested in building a new gaming/media computer.

Currently I have a Dell U2711 and Dell U2713HM, which I usually reduce the resolution on when I am gaming (U2711 for the games), but it would be cool if I didn't have to.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant]

Thoughts?

You're going hafta justify 16GB of RAM over the standard 8GB.

According to the GPU thread, the ACX is the worst aftermarket version of the GTX 970, louder than the reference cooler. You may want to check out MSI or ASUS cards. The GTX 970 is perfectly suited for QHD gaming so no worries.

You're pretty much paying a premium for that Black 4TB for nothing. It's loud and expensive, and a Red 4TB will perform adequately for games and whatnot.

Nettle Soup posted:

Optical drive: He has like, these round disc things and apparently they have games on? He gets them from a shop or something, I don't know, I thought they'd all gone bust. (Seriously: He has old games he'll wanna install and it's only �10, it was the cheapest rated optical drive on there)

I've had issues with Win 8 on my mums laptop, it's not wanted to run a couple of games for her (Sims 2 for one), it gets in the way a bit, and if I'm having to diagnose problems for him from a distance then I want to know it's not an issue with the OS rather than the game. I'm rarely gonna see it in person, he doesn't know how to change themes or anything and he's used to XP. I don't wanna deal with it just yet.

Yeah I might just switch out the evo... Thanks. Good to know!

Far enough on all accounts. But yeah, check out the SSD megathread for more information.

# ? Sep 22, 2014 05:33

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 20:25

Zero VGS: Aug 16, 2002; ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE; Lipstick Apathy

MondayHotDog posted:

If you have a Micro Center nearby, they have a deal for CPU/mobo for $100. If not, it might be better to go H97 with an i3.

You don't need a Z97 to overclock the G3258; many H97, H87, and Z87 can do it. Just check the official BIOS updates page for any board and if you see a recent update that mentions "G3258 support" or anything to that effect, that means updating the BIOS will add clock speed and voltage multipliers to the options.

# ? Sep 22, 2014 05:37

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > PC Building, Upgrading, and Parts Picking: Everything is pretty fast now (except AMD)

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