|
Lunatic 0verlord posted:So Yujin's Key Page is not the best Key Page?!
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 02:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2024 17:05 |
|
|
Welp, no better way for that to have possibly gone: Two artistic entities now combined into one Singularity.  It's a dang shame Funeral gets so steamrolled, sealing-unsealing mechanics are always very fun and interesting.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 03:23
|
|
|
Ariamaki posted:Welp, no better way for that to have possibly gone: Two artistic entities now combined into one Singularity. Oh, it'll have its moment next update. At this point I'm wholly convinced we're going straight into the next Realization.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 03:41
|
|
|
Yeah it looks like the most dangerous floor in the game is going to have 90% of its tools when we're done here. I'm a little sad because in my follow run, I resolved to not use Yesod because I seriously overused it in my first game. But.... I would actually like to use other tactics in the game, so its a necessary cost.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 04:06
|
|
|
Extremely late again. IMO, Funeral is extremely easy, when you read his passives, figure out staggering mechanic and playing effectively. All his dice are pathetically low. I would expect to see those Urban Plague at most. I wonder if it is result of nerf? Some other useless observations: There are technically 2 kinds of Butterflies. One starts with 1 Light, and other with 2. But units present on battlefiel at the beginning get to draw a card and restore light at scene 1, so it ends up not mattering. Butterflies can get unlucky with theit draw and wind up not having their 0-cost after using Liberation from ... card. They will then skip a turn doing nothing. IIRC, Unrelenting works on True damage, which means you can survive Lament once. I am very surprised that Coffin exist, given PM approach to boss design. EGO Phillip can be beaten easily and Tomerry would straight-up break its own logic, if not for <50% requirement. Can't wait to give Coffin Dance Angela taste of its own medicine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 11:35
|
|
|
 Seems like the thread's gone right towards the next Realization, and with it finishing off Yesod's floor.  Does that mean I'll finally get to use E.G.O sometime in the near future? Maybe. Probably not. We don't really need it yet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 12:14
|
|
|
TeeQueue posted:
Oh my goodness I can not wait to see how this goes
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 19:22
|
|
|
 "We're perfectly fine, why do you ask?" Congrats on your horrible gished monster clerk, you two!
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 19:54
|
|
|
EDIT: there was saccharine trash. It is gone now. I was rushing to make the date, but I should have just given up when the first few tries disappointed me.
NullBlack fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jun 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 00:37
|
|
|
My god, the Art Singularity has been made official LP canon. Surely nothing bad will come of this. For real though, congrats to Null and Meta. With their repeated contributions to the thread, I'm hard-pressed to think of any LPgoers more deserving of being Nuggeted. Anyway, Yesod's Floor Realization. So we're going up against (the E.G.O.s of?) Forsaken Murderer, All-Around Helper, Singing Machine, Funeral, and... something.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 08:51
|
|
|
SL the Pyro posted:My god, the Art Singularity has been made official LP canon. Surely nothing bad will come of this. Something which would fit with Yesod's mindset in Lob Corp, if what the thread is telling me is true.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 09:44
|
|
|
So place your bets, take your chance, what does everyone who doesn’t already know the answer think the fifth Abnormality will be?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 11:21
|
|
|
Thesis 2: Yesod—Introduction Music: Lobby  Remember to equip your fifth Librarian, and grab a snack! We'll be here for a while. VIDEO Music: YesodStory   We’ve managed to gather a sizable amount of information on the City’s technological aspects. You’re probably the best at dealing with books and info among all the librarians, Yesod. Am I? I will say, I have been fond of managing various types of information for a long time. Ah yes, keeping stuff neat and tidy, something I’m absolutely terrible at. Aren’t you proud of yourself. Well, that’s that! Anyway, let’s hear what you think about those technologies. Like the horrible events that took place in the WARP train… I cannot view all aspects of the technology people use in a positive light. We’ve seen that W Corp. places people in a nigh-eternal trip of torment and later erases their memories through a restoration procedure, hiding the truth behind their convenient service. The technologies of the City only focus on creating definite results, ignoring the process. The same can be said of the Library. Thus, I conducted additional analysis on the Library and its powers we are using. A pointless affair. In other words, one’s mental state is reflected on the physical space. I believe that is why various sceneries of the outside world can be recreated inside the Library. Moreover, the Library’s space expands as more books are accumulated. This evidently suggests that the Library is bigger on the inside. Furthermore, the power of books can be physically manifested in this place. And the invitation serves as a compass that leads you through a sea of letters to the book you wish to obtain, and a catalyst that amplifies emotions at the same time. I could go on and on about the technologies of the Library. Mmhmm, I can tell they’re amazing just from what I heard right now. Naturally. These are works of art I made with care. I cannot possibly fathom the inner workings of all these technologies. Their operation does not appear to be based on the application of multiple Singularities, either. The technologies of the Library showed specific usage and limited efficiency for how advanced they are. This is where I came up with the hypothesis to explain all of this. A small world of its own with its own set of laws and principles. Am I correct in my speculation? Believe what you want about the Library. Whatever the case, all we need is the results, isn’t that right? No. I do not agree with that notion. Angela, there is no technology in this world that does not come at a corresponding price. Price? Since when did I tell you to idle your time away thinking about such things? Your work here is to study and categorize books and knowledge related to the City’s technologies. It may be true that sorting books on the subject of technological sciences according to the rules is all I was ordered to do. However, if we bind ourselves to the principles given to us and fail to see beyond, that would be a contradiction in itself! …Must be nice to be you, being able to break free from the rules. Uh, Angela?Music: neutral 1   Is it necessary to go this far to collect energy? … Of course. I must follow your orders without a question. Music: First Trumpet   Am I not allowed to help that person…? But they seem to be in so much pain… …I can’t watch this anymore.- Loop #29 -  It’s not too late for me to close off the corridor… I could save those employees if I did… But this is what I must do… The principles I must follow… Prioritize energy production over all else…- Loop #287 -  I thought you wanted to save humanity? Is it a price that must be paid… The price you ought to pay for a ticket to escape from this hell…- Loop #3217 -  I can’t help you… I’m sorry… All I can do is watch…- Loop #18,231 -  Please hang on for a little longer, you can make it. We’ve almost reached the energy refinement quota.- Loop #42,484 -  Humans are such fragile creatures. They always make different faces even in the same kinds of situations.- Loop #71,527 -  You were just another human, after all. This is all but a plain and boring sight to me. Sigh, let’s restart the stage, then.Music: neutral 1  The fuel whose extraction is stimulated by intense emotions. A hell of perpetual suffering. The purgatory repeated by those who haven’t yet reached enlightenment. A heaven where one can try again from the beginning. When the one perfect realization has been reached, the curtain finally falls on the stage. And the realization is then propagated to all the people. I am a machination behind the stage. All I need to do is coordinate the stage so that the play goes according to the script. Perhaps it was I who was paying the price, not them.Music: STOP  If you were going to lecture me, you should have demonstrated it yourself first. You’re all standing before me because you were all bark and no bite… Price? Who do you think paid that price? Do you really think it was you? The ominous rumble is back, just like last time.  We’re in a bad spot, aren’t we? Yes… The Library appears to be resonating with Angela’s mental state. She’s shapeshifting like the last time, huh. That was a pain in the rear end to deal with. You’re mostly right. Though it will not exactly be the same as before. Good point. Back then, she looked a “little” bit different from that there… Let us prepare ourselves. She won’t wait for us all day.Next time, on Library of Ruina: Angela tries to kill us because she's an AI and we're making up for lost time. Videos Yesod 5
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 13:17
|
|
|
As I thought, Yesod floor is all about inability to make choices and being forced to just watch events you cannot change. Both Yesod and Angela were driven crazy by it. We taught Yesod a lesson back in LC and now he is ready to literally beat this lesson into Angela. Percussive maintennance ought to work well on household appliances, right? Which Abno Pages, do you think, TQ will use for beating BDSM Angela? My bet: Rhythm — it works extremely well in prolonged fight when you have a lot of Librarians. After you get into rhythm of violence, it will translate into constant +1 strength for everyone. I got 7 stacks of Rhytms on single librarian during this fight. Lament — for demonstration purposes and because you need to have debuffers anyway due to Murderers mechanic. Eternal Rest — for demonstrarion purposes. Also nice to have extra damage not affected by resistances in case your damage type will not work well in particular instance. Clean — Because it is too awesome not to take. Music — Just because TQ is dedicated to demonstrate most of every encounter. Shutting Angela down with Coffin will be unsportsmanlike.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 13:48
|
|
|
And so it is revealed, Angela in the beginning actually cared, but was forced to be unable to help the employees by the rules/directions given to her by A. Then time took its toll and she was Pavlovian trained to just not care anymore. All in the name of better energy generation. Say it with me now: A is/was a DICK.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 14:55
|
|
|
Chaosbrain posted:And so it is revealed, Angela in the beginning actually cared, but was forced to be unable to help the employees by the rules/directions given to her by A. Then time took its toll and she was Pavlovian trained to just not care anymore. All in the name of better energy generation. Now imagine her listening to various mind-wiped X’s complain about how brutal the company is to agents and being unable to take him by the shoulders and shake him violently while screaming “It’s your fault, rear end in a top hat!”.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 17:09
|
|
|
Chaosbrain posted:And so it is revealed, Angela in the beginning actually cared, but was forced to be unable to help the employees by the rules/directions given to her by A. Then time took its toll and she was Pavlovian trained to just not care anymore. All in the name of better energy generation. That's the biggest example of Wham scene I've ever seen in a video game. Lobotomy Corporation's scenes trained us to think of Angela as an uncaring AI who only exists to fulfill what the company wants. Library of Ruina teaches us that she did want to help, but she was no more than a puppet following the play.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 17:30
|
|
|
Chaosbrain posted:And so it is revealed, Angela in the beginning actually cared, but was forced to be unable to help the employees by the rules/directions given to her by A. Then time took its toll and she was Pavlovian trained to just not care anymore. All in the name of better energy generation. That's bad enough, but combine that with the fun detail from the last realization that she also experiences extremely high time dilation. So as those employees are being torn to shreds she has more than enough time to not only realize they're about to die a horrible screaming death to the Abno of the day, but also calculate precisely how she could have helped them thousands of times over. Quite frankly it's a wonder she's still coherent after all of that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 17:36
|
|
|
I said this before, but Angela is surprisingly well adjusted, considering the circumstances.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 18:22
|
|
|
Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:I said this before, but Angela is surprisingly well adjusted, considering the circumstances. Except as these Realizations are showing, no. No, she really isn't. She's just better at hiding it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 18:46
|
|
|
Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:I said this before, but Angela is surprisingly well adjusted, considering the circumstances. Honestly it's impressive that she sticks to murderizing everyone with EGO instead of just snapping their limbs off. 
MetaMeme fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jun 20, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 19:20
|
|
|
Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:I said this before, but Angela is surprisingly well adjusted, considering the circumstances.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 19:32
|
|
|
Zereth posted:Breaking down wasn't in the script. We have a precedent: Binah cannot even find reprieve in insanity, forced to interact with the Well, which destroys normal minds in seconds, as part of A's revenge. I bet, Angela was given the same treatment.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 19:41
|
|
|
Eh, despite whatever Binah says about having to deal with the Well, I'm sure she actually enjoys it. Used to be she'd do hosed up things to people when murdering them with singularities; now she gets to see really hosed up things crawling out of a singularity. It's basically the same thing. And she still gets tea. There's even a trailer for the Project Moon cafe where they go through the lower level Sephirah and Binah's got this entire collection of teapots that match Extraction's color scheme in the background. She's fine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 19:55
|
|
|
MiiNiPaa posted:We have a precedent: Binah cannot even find reprieve in insanity, forced to interact with the Well, which destroys normal minds in seconds, as part of A's revenge. I bet, Angela was given the same treatment. Except unlike with Binah it wasn’t even A giving enough of a drat to punish her specifically. He just made her that way incidentally or as an afterthought. “She, no it is just a machine, and I don’t want it to break before the Plan is finished. Need it to be able to do the work if Binah breaks down or fails somehow.”
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 19:58
|
|
|
Chaosbrain posted:Except unlike with Binah it wasn’t even A giving enough of a drat to punish her specifically. He just made her that way incidentally or as an afterthought. “She, no it is just a machine, and I don’t want it to break before the Plan is finished. Need it to be able to do the work if Binah breaks down or fails somehow.” I mean, with Ayin giving Angela some/all of Carmen's memories and making her look the same, at least some of the unspoken hope there is that she'd just 'wake up' and resume as if she hadn't died, right? So from that perspective, giving a person who'd previously slit their own wrists in a bathtub a new body that won't let them go mad has a pretty clear reasoning behind it. The fact it'd also help with plan B doesn't hurt, though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 20:47
|
|
|
Materant posted:Except as these Realizations are showing, no. No, she really isn't. She's just better at hiding it. Memory leaks, am I right?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 21:37
|
|
|
Find it interesting that A, or at least X, would understand how awful what they put Angela through considering that on a loop(s?) before the cognition filter was used he ended up apologizing to Angela for, presumably, what he had done to her. Makes me think that if A had given himself more time to think on things or wasn't in the midst of grieving he wouldn't have done what he did to Angela.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 21:40
|
|
|
Einander posted:I mean, with Ayin giving Angela some/all of Carmen's memories and making her look the same, at least some of the unspoken hope there is that she'd just 'wake up' and resume as if she hadn't died, right? So from that perspective, giving a person who'd previously slit their own wrists in a bathtub a new body that won't let them go mad has a pretty clear reasoning behind it. The fact it'd also help with plan B doesn't hurt, though. For all his machine hatred, it’s hard to think that Ayin would have been such a jerk if he hadn’t been secretly hoping Angela would be just like Carmen, and then extremely angry and bitter when she wasn’t. But it’s also clear that Ayin felt betrayed and abandoned by Carmen and opted to punish Angela for it while ensuring she couldn’t abandon him. Looks like he overlooked a betrayal option, though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 23:20
|
|
|
Is a mindwiped A a separate individual from MegaHitler A?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2022 23:24
|
|
|
Aw yeah, time to punch Angela into being a better person again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2022 00:00
|
|
|
Artificer posted:Is a mindwiped A a separate individual from MegaHitler A? I say yes, but Angela doesn't think so. I mean, we got a bunch of very different Previous As in Architecture, after all. EDIT: If all the As were fundamentally the same either the loop would have never worked at all, or we'd never have looped because it worked the first time. Zereth fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jun 21, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2022 00:01
|
|
|
At least this confirms Joshua not showing up until the fight started wasn't going to be a common occurance.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2022 00:02
|
|
|
Zereth posted:EDIT: If all the As were fundamentally the same either the loop would have never worked at all, or we'd never have looped because it worked the first time. Angela did mention in LobCorp that some X-incarnations got into the habit of incessantly apologizing to her, which, yes, unhelpful and highly awkward, but does kinda point towards them all not being the same.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2022 09:56
|
|
|
I think about the champagne scene a LOT in the context of what's being revealed about Angela here. Having to put on that cool, confident smile as you tell the man who orchestrated the script in the first place that you should celebrate since someone died. Before even that, selecting an employee to off just because it's "part of the script." Watching hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of A's march past this event with confusion or confidence or sadness never once knowing that it was *him* who caused this. Take a toast with this man you have come to loathe in every potential facet of his existence, the champagne bubbling sweetly on your tongue for what feels like almost an hour to you, congratulate him in slow motion for one of the opening lines in a play he wrote and you can't help but direct. And know with sinking, absolute certainty that you're going to have to do this again. And again. And again. And no matter how much the reactions might vary, it will be the same every single drat time. Other people have already pointed it out, but Angela having a loving cataclysmic breakdown only after a M I L L I O N Y E A R S of dealing with all of this is admirable, even if she wasn't "allowed" to go nuts in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2022 10:02
|
|
|
These two realizations also demonstrate pretty clearly that Angela is very much, not human. Millions of years and only now she has a mental break as she finally even has the freedom to consider them. We even get a direct comparison with W Corp and the train where a mere 2000ish years you hit the end result of humans losing their minds entirely, one could even argue the passengers lose their minds by year 200.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2022 12:36
|
|
|
Another interesting point is that had things continued, it’s possible that Angela never would have broke down. The problem is that as the Library is advancing Angela seems to be becoming more human as time goes on. Compare early on where she got attacked greeting some guests and it just dinked off, when later she got attacked again and actually started to bleed. Now maybe it was just the second attack was stronger, but maybe not, it was actually Angela who was “weaker.” So of course the problem is that the perfect AI who has had a million years worth of trauma is now becoming human enough to actually start feeling/fully experience it. Thus the MULTIPLE breakdowns.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2022 13:04
|
|
|
Chaosbrain posted:Another interesting point is that had things continued, it’s possible that Angela never would have broke down. The problem is that as the Library is advancing Angela seems to be becoming more human as time goes on. Compare early on where she got attacked greeting some guests and it just dinked off, when later she got attacked again and actually started to bleed. Now maybe it was just the second attack was stronger, but maybe not, it was actually Angela who was “weaker.”
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2022 18:57
|
|
|
Boxbot!Binah couldn't suffer a mental breakdown (read: go insane) from looking into the well because she was a boxbot. Angela seems to be (finally) suffering breakdowns from her trauma, now that she's becoming more human, less AI. Seems to imply that, in this setting, robots/AI can't go insane. Except the upper Sephirot's meltdowns and Angela's personality shift (from "I want to help, but can't and it hurts", to "only reason I haven't gone GLaDOS on you is that you're useful") suggest that they're not unaffected by trauma; they can be, quite significantly. So I want to know where the delineation between traumatized and "insane" is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2022 19:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 15, 2024 17:05 |
|
|
NullBlack posted:Boxbot!Binah couldn't suffer a mental breakdown (read: go insane) from looking into the well because she was a boxbot. I am not a mental health professional, but from my observations, the break point for "insane" seems to be "is not useful to, or is directly harmful to, capitalism." You have panic attacks related to a robbery you were the victim of? That's fine, you can keep working at the same place you were robbed at, just leave the back door propped open so you feel like you have an escape route. By that metric, the Dark Days were Angela's first mental break. She dealt a lot of harm to the market value of L Corp.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2022 20:11
|
|
