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Crazy685 posted:Just to clarify, I should be 3betting back at a raiser when he's raising fairly often from late position when I'm in the BB/SB when I put them on a wider range? It depends what hand you have and how the player responds to 3-bets, of course! If they call the 3-bet most of the time then you should 3-bet for value with hands that dominate their range. If they fold to 3-bets a lot then it's a profitable to 3-bet weaker hands with blockers to their call 3-bet range and flat hands that can dominate their fold to 3-bet range. Then you have to consider how they behave in 3-bet pots on the flop: Do they peel 3-bets then always give up? Or do they never give up when they call a 3-bet? etc etc
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Jun 20, 2011 03:47
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Crazy685 posted:Just to clarify, I should be 3betting back at a raiser when he's raising fairly often from late position when I'm in the BB/SB when I put them on a wider range? Absolutely. Most good players will be stealing with a very high frequency from the CO and BTN, so an effective way to counter this is to have both a flat calling range in the blinds as well as a 3betting range. The way you choose to play out of the blinds against a steal is going to affect your red-line in HEM or PT3. This is your non-showdown winnings. Just remember that everyone is dealt the same hands preflop in the long run, so the players who are finding ways to win the most pots without showdown will be winning the money, and are considered the most skilled. I think AEJones even tried to measure a players skill by multiplying their VPIP with W$WSF. Just don't turn into a spewmonkey like him. Focus on playing a very solid 3betting game preflop and using well timed aggression postflop to sense weakness and pick up those pots that nobody seems to want. As for 3betting out of the SB/BB, you will obviously be 3betting strong hands like JJ+, AK for value and planning to "get it in". You will also need to balance this range with some semi bluffs. The hands that you choose to bluff with should depend on the type of player who is raising. If you feel they will be flat calling your 3bets a lot, then go with an extended value range containing hands like AQ, AJs, KQs, TT, since they will be calling with dominated hands. It is also fine to flat call these hands, so don't start 3betting them every single time! Also, if you feel a players is capable of 4bet bluffing, these are bad hands to 3bet because you will be in such a tough spot when you get 4bet. They are not strong enough to "get in" preflop and flatting 4bets out of position is pretty bad, unless you are truly sick, so you will be forced to fold preflop. Against someone like this who plays more of a "fold-to-3bet/4bet" game, you can use weaker hands like Q8s, K5s, basically hands that are too weak to flat call for value, but have some postflop playability and high card blockers to QQ, KK, AA. It is also a non-issue when you get 4bet. Don't get carried away with 3betting out of the blinds, but just keep it in your playbook and you will raise your non-showdown winnings and be a much tougher person to play against.
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Jun 20, 2011 03:50
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I'm not to hot at 3 betting but isn't a pretty standard line to bet the top of your range for value, and with the same sort of % of hands that are just that little bit too weak to call. So, say you value 3bet with the top ~5%, you'd flat with those just below that play well post-flop and 3bet with ~5% of hands that are just a bit too weak to call with, hands like KJ/A9 that you don't really want to play post-flop in a raised pot because they are so easily dominated?
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Jun 20, 2011 17:02
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That answered my question perfectly. Thanks Spasms.
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Jun 21, 2011 18:38
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:I'm not to hot at 3 betting but isn't a pretty standard line to bet the top of your range for value, and with the same sort of % of hands that are just that little bit too weak to call. So, say you value 3bet with the top ~5%, you'd flat with those just below that play well post-flop and 3bet with ~5% of hands that are just a bit too weak to call with, hands like KJ/A9 that you don't really want to play post-flop in a raised pot because they are so easily dominated? This is 3betting 101, however the 3rd tier you described is not always the optimal range to bluff 3bet with since a lot of people will flat your 3bets with the 2nd tier (AJs, KQ, 99) which dominates your range. Against a lot of people I will be more inclined to 3bet 57s than A9o, especially out of position.
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Jun 21, 2011 19:05
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Would love some critique on this hand, anything and everything is appreciated. 2/5 live game at my local card room. I'm dealt QQ on the button with a $445 stack. 3 limps to me and I raise to $30. Folds around to C/O (who has me covered) who flats. He's just an average player at this card room and I've seen him a few times. He's fairly conservative but I've seen him get it in with the worst a few times before, especially on drawy boards. Earlier in the evening I folded AKo when the turn completed a flush on a K  J 8  5 board and he 3x c/r'd my turn bet.I'd expect him to flat my raise with a range of something like 55+,ATs+,ATo+,KJs+,QJs,JTs,+,KQo Pot: $70 (7$ rake..ughhhh) My stack: $415 Board: J 8 3 rainbow He checks, I bet $40, he raises to $90, I call. At this point I'm strongly leaning towards AJ with a slight chance he's got a set (after watching him play over the course of a few sessions, I'm convinced he flats a set here though, so I'm almost sure he's on AJ). Pot: $250 My stack: $325 Turn: 5 After roughly a minute, he leads for $125 and I think for about a minute and a half to 2 mins before calling. Pot: $500, My stack: $200 River: 2 Villain checks, hero? Is the river an auto-shove after he checks? It felt super trappy like he was expecting me to say "What the hell, I've only got $200 left into a pot of 5" and toss it in. I was pretty :/ in this spot. I'll post results later on. TheKevman fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Jun 23, 2011 |
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Jun 23, 2011 11:07
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you almost never lose at this point as played. jam for value.
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Jun 23, 2011 12:27
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Strong Sauce posted:Do you have any reads? This is pretty much b/f (or sometimes even just c/f) against most villains but probably clearer with some reads. c/fing on that river is really, really awful. his range is so bloated with things that will call a bet but may opt to check figuring your range doesn't have a lot of mid-strength hands that can call on the river. i don't really mind bet/folding in the actual hand, and checking has some merit only if he will turn no-pair hands into a bluff at a very high frequency (also he has to have a lot of them in his range here). if you compare check/calling with bet/folding, you elicit an extra bet from his single club broadways by checking, but lose a bet if he chks back with two red jacks, TQo, 99 type hands, which a player may decide to do. if you bet, he calls with almost every made hand that calls turn, you preserve bluffs in your range, you give him the option to make a big mistake with raising a worse value hand or a bluff, and you also make a similar amount from, say, ATo by betting as you do check/calling. from a game theoretical perspective folding this river is like, really bad (how many better hands than the one you play this way do you have? TT, 44, 33. how many worse? a bunch), and id probably shrug call as my default but i don't really hate folding vs certain opponents who are just uncreative and tight. JCarver fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Jun 23, 2011 |
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Jun 23, 2011 12:38
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In retrospect I don't know why I didn't, really  At the time his turn bet threw me for a little bit of a loop (from his perspective he's seen a pf raise, a call of his c/r and then now he leads out with a half pot bet?). I ended up checking behind on the river and he flipped over T9s which picked up a second spade on the turn IIRC. Also thanks for 4am critique while (i'm assuming) still in Vegas on the heels of a big win Mr. Carver  ZeroStar posted:Interesting that you posted this because you must have lost, but I would shove every time. I would guess he had AA. I spent a good while talking to a guy that I respect at the card-room about it and he basically was asking me, "How are you not jamming that river every single time?" I make no bones that I'm still learning, I just like hearing the explanations on it. TheKevman fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Jun 23, 2011 |
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Jun 23, 2011 12:42
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QQ hand: If he has a hand better than yours he is going to shove unless he is playing really bad. There's not really a reason for him to check to you with a strong hand. Reasons for him to check a better hand than yours are: board got bad for his hand and thinks he may be behind or can't get value, or lots of draws missed and your hand range is weak so checking to let you bluff is better than betting to get called by worse. Those are the biggest reasons you'll see, and neither one is the case here. Interesting that you posted this because you must have lost, but I would shove every time. I would guess he had AA.
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Jun 23, 2011 12:45
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TheKevman posted:In retrospect I don't know why I didn't, really i think you played it really well up til river, where i would also hope you would have called had he jammed (you allowed him to keep trying to bluff by calling twice). w $200 behind he's not trapping with a river check, in spots like that people very much tend to just jam with their big value hands (being that they are afraid of people like you somehow checking back with QQ  )
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Jun 23, 2011 12:56
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JCarver posted:i think you played it really well up til river, where i would also hope you would have called had he jammed (you allowed him to keep trying to bluff by calling twice). w $200 behind he's not trapping with a river check, in spots like that people very much tend to just jam with their big value hands (being that they are afraid of people like you somehow checking back with QQ Would you consider jamming turn after he leads for $125 to be better than flatting? In hindsight he's never folding turn (even with my initial read of AJ he's getting 3.5 to 1 and I think he'd easily talk himself into a call). I dodged a ton of outs but I guess getting it in there instead is probably best? TheKevman fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Jun 24, 2011 |
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Jun 23, 2011 13:08
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I've been going over this for a few days now and still can't figure out if I made the right move. Live 3/5 game, 2 rounds plo 1 round nl hold em, we are 7 handed and the game is less than an hour old. I have ~800, utg+1 has ~400, btn has ~550. Lots of reads after the hh so read carefully. I straddle to 10 Utg+1 raises to 30 co calls btn calls I look down at red aces and raise to 135 (critique my raise size i think it sucks) utg+1 uncharacteristicly quickly calls co folds btn calls flop 5c 7s 9c I check (intending to get it in with btn, explain later (bad check?)) utg+1 snap shoves btn snap reshoves utg+1 is usually very very nitty and bad. In plo he pretty much only pots with the nuts and will fold really strong hands to 2 and 3 barrels. He also seems to badly estimate his outs, having gotten it in drawing to less outs than he thinks he has a few times. Pretty much the only times when he doesn't flip over the nuts are spots where he thinks he has 20 outs twice and actually has 12. I havent't seen him do much of anything in hold em. He is extremely transparent with his hands, after his shove I was 100% he was on some kind of draw but not the best one, i.e. not the nut flush draw. No way he has 68, but he can have sets (although I'm fairly sure he doesn't based on live tells), JcTc, QcJc etc. I think I am a favorite against his range, but he should have decent equity. His quick preflop call and history below adds a few hands, I think KK and AA trying to trap becomes reasonable. He also has it out for me enough that his range gets a little wider, but I'm not sure how much. I stacked him twice (~300bb total) in two orbits the day before. Both plo, first hand I had AT4x he has ATxx we get it in on KTTr and I river the 4. Second hand I have AAK9ds he has AKKxr we get it in on TJQr with me having two backdoor flush draws. Once comes in, he mutters unbelievable a bunch of times as he slowly leaves the room. He makes it clear he thinks I'm a luckbox and he wants to stack me. btn is one of the loosest players at these games. He knows how to put lots of good pressure, uses position very well, but is also easy to trap and can be very spewy. He calls the first raise with ~60% of hands (if not more) and since he has position and good odds on the 3bet, he calls that with almost 100% of his first range. 55/77/99/97/68/8T and any two clubs are all in his range as well as 9T+, 98, 96, TT, JJ but I'm pretty sure QQ+ he shoves pre. He might even play 88/66 to the shove. I checked the flop because I don't expect utg+1 to shove often (check folds all his complete misses all the time) and I always expect btn to bet when it checks to him. Literally 100% of the time, leaving me a very profitable check/shove. Then they both get it in and I'm wondering if I have ~5% equity or ~50% equity. fwiw I'm snap getting it in with either of them but both turbo shoving makes me hesitate.
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Jun 24, 2011 22:33
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Capped posted:hand Even without reads this seems like an easy call @ 100BB. I mean you have AA in what seems to be a very large pot. With reads I'm nodding my head as I move in my chips, "Yes yes right away I call" People don't necessarily play with the same aggression in different forms of poker. Some players play tighter in PLO than NLH. Their instashoving without thinking makes me believe they're not really sitting on monsters. You at least have to think about what you're going to do when you hit a big hand in a 3-pot multiway hand. Also, I'd raise it a little bigger preflop, $165 sounds like a good number. I think $135 is a bit smaller than I like mainly because you'll be OOP the rest of the hand.
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Jun 25, 2011 00:43
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Yeah I don't think you're super happy about the spot but you have to get it in. If you were deeper it could be interesting but I think it's a pretty easy call. I like the check on the flop because if you bet it looks very strong, and if you had a missed hand this is a flop you could be check/folding on a lot, so it disguises your hand a lot and makes it more likely for your opponents to make a mistake. I think the 3bet size pf is fine. Yes you will be OOP the hand but... you have aces so who cares!
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Jun 25, 2011 02:12
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I played live 1/2 tonight and I was looking for some feedback on a hand. I was UTG +2 with 10-8 clubs. I'd established a table image as a pretty tight player and I had a few limpers in front of me so I raised it to 15. 2 calls, UTG + 1(tight) and small blind(loose). Flop was 10-9-7, 2 spades. Small blind checked, I raised to 20, UTG + 1 made it 40 to go, small blind folded. I called with the rest of my stack. When I called, the pot was at about 65. Was this a good move?
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Jun 26, 2011 05:13
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StrppngYoungLad posted:I played live 1/2 tonight and I was looking for some feedback on a hand. I was UTG +2 with 10-8 clubs. I'd established a table image as a pretty tight player and I had a few limpers in front of me so I raised it to 15. 2 calls, UTG + 1(tight) and small blind(loose). Flop was 10-9-7, 2 spades. Small blind checked, I raised to 20, UTG + 1 made it 40 to go, small blind folded. I called with the rest of my stack. When I called, the pot was at about 65. Was this a good move? Wait, so you started the hand with like 30bb?
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Jun 26, 2011 05:54
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etcetera08 posted:Wait, so you started the hand with like 30bb? Yeah, about there, but that was about a mid stack for the table. Several other players were down to 10 or so, and the villain only had about 50bb. Until that point I'd only played a few hands, and the ones I'd shown down were all pocket pairs. Was starting the hand in the first place a mistake?
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Jun 26, 2011 06:08
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StrppngYoungLad posted:I played live 1/2 tonight and I was looking for some feedback on a hand. I was UTG +2 with 10-8 clubs. I'd established a table image as a pretty tight player and I had a few limpers in front of me so I raised it to 15. 2 calls, UTG + 1(tight) and small blind(loose). Flop was 10-9-7, 2 spades. Small blind checked, I raised to 20, UTG + 1 made it 40 to go, small blind folded. I called with the rest of my stack. When I called, the pot was at about 65. Was this a good move? This action doesn't make any loving sense.
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Jun 26, 2011 06:49
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StrppngYoungLad posted:Yeah, about there, but that was about a mid stack for the table. Several other players were down to 10 or so, and the villain only had about 50bb. Until that point I'd only played a few hands, and the ones I'd shown down were all pocket pairs. Was starting the hand in the first place a mistake? Yes. When you have that small of a stack you are looking to get it in pre or on the flop and marginal hands like that are bad. If you're set on playing it though, and although I don't recommend this either, you should just limp there. T8s is bad enough to fold even at 100bb effective stacks a lot of times anyways, haha.
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Jun 26, 2011 06:54
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I don't really tend to post critiques but I'd like to give this a shot (if what I'm saying is debated or not right, someone please pipe in).StrppngYoungLad posted:I played live 1/2 tonight and I was looking for some feedback on a hand. I was UTG +2 with 10-8 clubs. I'd established a table image as a pretty tight player and I had a few limpers in front of me so I raised it to 15. Questions to ask yourself as you're playing: Why are you trying to make any sort of a move here with Tc8c? Are you hoping your early position raise is "respected" and that everyone folds? What hands are calling you that you're either beating or even close with? A huge majority of the time you're going to the flop as a dog, which may be ok if you're playing with 150bb+ stacks trying to flop a monster (Jc9h2c would be a fantastic board) but for 30bb's this is just terrible. I'd note that for 100bb's+ I'd likely limp IF and only if I was in the hi-jack or c/o and I (personally) would raise it on the button if it was unopened or with 1 limper. Your goal with T8s is to flop a monster, not top pair. Even two pair can be queasy depending on the board texture- what are you doing on an 89T board? How about an AT8 board, or even a KT8 board and you encounter resistance?. It's great to try and cheaply see a flop and hope for something but I'm almost NEVER limping or raising pre OOP.) If (as you imply) UTG+1 is "tight," what range does his flat put him on? We likely know what he'd re-raise with, so I won't waste time with the higher pocket pairs/AK/AQ except to say that it's possible he'd flat hoping to build a pot that he can jam on the flop with an overpair to be all trappy-like. He's likely flatting here with a suited ace or an ace with a high kicker (say A5s-AJs, ATo+AJo) almost all suited and non-suited broadways would go (KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, QT, JT) and mostly all pocket pairs 88-22 are going to try to hit a set. Just assuming you're heads up with UTG+1, you're about a 60/40 dog on this range. I'm just gonna ignore small blind since he folded post, but that same sort of evaluation has to go on with him as well. So basically at this point you've bloated a pot (relative to your stack) with a sub-par holding (initially out of position- not good but luckily for you the two callers were oop post flop, but it doesn't really matter at this point) and with 22.5 bb's left, with a pot of ~21bb's. I don't really know what you expect me or anyone else to say about his re-raise post-flop though. Folding here is a mistake given odds plus the fact that even before he raises you've already committed ~60% of your stack between your pre-flop and post-flop action. After he minraises it costs you ~20 more into a pot of ~105, so you're getting 5:1. But you're almost always losing here. There's really no right answer other than you shouldn't have been doing what you did pre. As an aside, at 1/2 you don't really have a "table image" imo, unless you've been playing hours on end with the same people, which it doesn't sound like you were. People are just too dense to pick up anything. I've played weeks with the same people at 1/2-2/5 and they'll still flat my face up value bets left and right. A large majority of the players just don't care enough/aren't thinking enough to be keeping mental tally other than the times you show up with monsters 3 times in a row or something. After a few hands pass, they've most likely forgotten.
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Jun 26, 2011 10:30
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Also throw a hand of mine out there from tonight... 2/5 live, 7 handed. I'm UTG and pickup A J with a $350 stack (I'd just lost my KK to AQ a few hands earlier for ~$100.) I open to $25 which is pretty standard at this table.Folds to c/o who flats who's pretty terrible. He has $275. He's a roller coaster who has won and lost big pots. He'll call down all 3 streets with bottom pair and piss away his stack without flinching. He's won a few big pots after getting it in bad and sucking out (bet, got raised, jammed and got called on a A96r flop raised ~4.5x pre by AK and his A8o sucked out an 8 on the river). BB also calls (who also has ~275) who I've got history with and is a decent to pretty good player but loves to mix it up and take any two reasonable cards to multi-way pots. He'll also chase relentlessly whether it's open ended or a gut-shot. I'd give c/o 22+, A8o+, A2s+, all broadways and a few suited connectors. BB I'd say takes the top 20-25% to the flop here. My stack on the flop: $325 Pot: $69 Flop: A  J TI lead for $50 into $69. c/o quickly jams BB folds. It's now $369 to me and it costs $200 to go. TheKevman fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Jun 26, 2011 |
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Jun 26, 2011 11:04
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TheKevman posted:hand With your read this is a snap call. Lots of times hes got worse two pairs, flush draws, Ax, some bluffs, and if he has KQ or a set oh well better luck next time.
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Jun 26, 2011 18:56
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TheKevman posted:Also throw a hand of mine out there from tonight... WIth this type of player his range is really wide and top two is crushing everything but the top 5% of his range. I'd say for his drawing hands any flush draw, any open ender (Q9, 9T), any gutshot + pair, and a lot of Ax hands because of your read. Sucks if he had the straight or whatever.
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Jun 26, 2011 18:57
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TheKevman posted:Also throw a hand of mine out there from tonight... Edit: Okay I assume you meant his raise was $200 more, and you need to call $200 more to win a pot of ($200+$69+$50+$50) which means you need about 1.8:1 or 35% equity in the pot to be EV neutral, so if you think you're good more than 35% of the time then its a call. Against a bad, loose, player seems like a pretty easy call. Strong Sauce fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Jun 26, 2011 |
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Jun 26, 2011 23:21
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IsotopeOrange posted:Snap call. This was my thought process to a T and why I ended up not snapping, but thinking for a while and then calling. And yes, he had KQ.
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Jun 27, 2011 06:59
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Interested in my play on both of these hands. $1/3 live, fairly aggressive. 7 players UTG+1 ($xx) MP1 ($xx) MP2 ($xx) CO ($xx) Hero (Button) ($375) SB ($xx) BB ($xx) Villain (middle-ish seat) ($450) Preflop: Hero is Button with J , 10. Rock out on button (forced straddle), so I'm already in for $10. Villain bets $25, Hero calls, one other caller. Flop 7 , 8, Q Villain bets $45, other person calls, I reraised all-in: good idea/bad idea? Villain calls with two pair (7's and 8's) I turn a flush and the board doesn't pair. Later that night... 4 handed 1. fairly tight player who is very good. Usually sticks to faces and pairs. ($700) 2. Can be very loose and spewy, already down $600 for the night ($650) 3. Kinda drunk guy, mediocre player ($400) 4. Me ($780) I'm on the button, so 1 is small blind, 2 is big blind, 3 is first to act. Preflop: I have 4 , 53 folds, I make it $15, 1 and 2 both call. Flop comes A , 3, 10 1 bets $20, 2 calls, I call Turn A , 3, 10, K 1 bets $50, 2 raises to $140, what do you do? I reraised all in for a little more than $500 on top. 1 thinks for a very long time, then folds (showed a J Q after the hand). 2 calls and shows 8 2.
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Jun 28, 2011 07:09
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Omerta posted:Interested in my play on both of these hands. $1/3 live, fairly aggressive. first one is standard, second one you should flatcall and call on non-diamond rivers but maybe you can hero fold given certain action/livereads.
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Jun 28, 2011 11:31
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w/r/t the first hand: Isn't it better to simply call there, rather than shove?
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Jun 28, 2011 16:15
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vase and ashtray posted:w/r/t the first hand: Isn't it better to simply call there, rather than shove? I'll chime in as I haven't discussed a hand in a while and it helps my thought process. I think a shove is better than a call because you have a monster combo draw (flush and straight) and you will want to see the turn and river to realise your full equity. Are you going to call flop and then check/fold a blank on the turn? Plus, the person calling villain's flop bet is unlikely to be that strong as he should be raising with strong hands there on a flop that wet so you know we're going to have a huge amount of fold equity against him thereby increasing our equity if it gets heads-up. Finally, we may even have fold equity against the original raiser and can get him to fold a better hand (because we still only actually have J-high at this point). I'm still learning so if anybody can add more or point out any mistakes in my thinking that'd be appreciated.
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Jun 28, 2011 17:59
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I was more meaning; don't we want the MP-guy to come along as well as the villain? The shove seems to isolate here, whereas a call is passive and welcoming. Obviously, the risk is that if scare cards (particularly Ds) fall on the turn, it's possibly harder to extract max-val.
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Jun 28, 2011 19:56
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vase and ashtray posted:I was more meaning; don't we want the MP-guy to come along as well as the villain? If we had like a set here then this logic makes sense but we have a combodraw. Our maximum equity is realized when we get to see the turn and the river. If we get it in on the flop with ~45-50% equity or whatever it's because we're seeing both turn and river. We don't want to flat and need to bink the turn. We only hit our draw about 25% of the time when we only see the turn. Now if we had like ATdd I like flatting because there are a lot of turn cards (including ones that hit us) where villain will keep betting and our overcard probably isn't good a lot of the time when we rr flop and get it in. So basically you're saying we should flat to keep MP in sort of like a trap, but we don't have a hand yet and it's not advantageous.
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Jun 28, 2011 20:37
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Just played this hand on stars. Pretty scary stuff for me but I had a solid read and decided I had to go with it. So he's 80/54 after 30 hands. Has showdown Q7o against a guy`s TT on a AT662 board. He limps almost every hands and folds a lot to bets. But 100% of time he will bet hard if checked to or first in or facing small bet (to him he bets HARD). So! I get ATs and he limps from utg+1. I raise to isolate (table is very tight because of the guy and I only expect better hands to 3bet me at which point I would just let it go). Like Verneer would say against that guy I flopped the nuts. So I let him hang himself real good but got pretty loving scared by the river. Actually clicked rebuy and expected to get coolered. Any of you guys fold here givin the read? http://www.pokerhand.org/?6148123 edit: thinking about it. Have to add that I do not shove turn because I have seen him insta fold in that spot so thats that. Iznogood fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jun 29, 2011 |
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Jun 29, 2011 19:21
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I think we should be betting flop here when we've most likely got the best hand and should be trying to get value from weaker. The idea of "don't wanna scare him off" only applies when you've got a monster imo. You're not "letting them hang themselves" when you flop TPGK...I think you need more of a hand than just TPGK if slowplay is your aspiration. I lead flop here 100% of the time against this villain and call most raises, ready to evaluate turn. I think if you get c/c on flop it's a lot easier to piece together action later on the turn (i.e. if he c/c flop and then c/r turn, you can more easily get off your hand since the betting pattern makes sense- it wouldn't be hard to put him on A4 66 A6 at this point and we'd only be down ~$10.) I think calling turn here is bad unless we have evidence of him acting like this before with air (did he play the hand similarly with Q7o? Check flop, c/r big on turn and jam river? How has he played monsters that he's won?) I'm don't see the harm in waiting for a better spot (TPGK against this type of villain here with this weird betting makes me queasy.) I don't know why/how we'd ever want to bet/shove turn here. Maybe I'm not advanced/aggro enough but it just seems to me like we're getting it in there on the losing end waaayyy more often than not. As played I really don't like the river call. When you call 17.50 on the turn and the pot swells to ~$33, you're facing a shove 9 out of 10 times on just about any river, so I guess you had already decided by this point that you were committed regardless. Hands that we're losing to on the river are AJ+ A4 A6 54 34 66 JJ and any diamond flush. I could see all of these hands fitting his action, with the exception of maybe 66 since he wouldn't want to scare you away on the turn but at the same time needed to get money into the pot. Hands that we're beating are precisely air, some pair 77-KK that isn't JJ, some 6x hand or a busted straight draw and you're getting what, 33.45 into ~65ish after rake? So barely 2:1?. The only hands that play this turn/river that way are monsters or absolute air, and fwiw TPGK just isn't something I'm looking to stack off with on a paired board with a completed flush draw. Maybe you had a better read on him than I can glean through your description, but given action I'd be out on turn for sure. I'd take my thought process with a grain of salt here though, as I'm admittedly still learning myself. TheKevman fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jun 29, 2011 |
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Jun 29, 2011 21:06
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TheKevman posted:I think we should be betting flop here when we've most likely got the best hand and should be trying to get value from weaker. The idea of "don't wanna scare him off" only applies when you've got a monster imo. You're not "letting them hang themselves" when you flop TPGK...I think you need more of a hand than just TPGK if slowplay is your aspiration. Great comments! One very important thing is that he did do the exact same thing with Q7o. He went in 30 hands from 50 to 12 to 50 again to 30 to 50. Just a crasy guy. If I bet the flop (like I had done against him 3 times before) he just folds. On the turn its really my read that he does this almost every hands and as of now has shown zero good hand. On the river I was really scared but again he made everyone fold like that and when ever he got called he had trash. So I called. He had K2o. Its important to note I would NEVER play like that unless I am super 100% sure the guy is completely retard. I am actually pretty nitty. edit: also I pokerrakinged him and on stars he has like 100 hands total. So probably a new player. Iznogood fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jun 29, 2011 |
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Jun 29, 2011 21:31
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Live $1/$2, effective stacks are about $150. I'm on the CO with JJ, Villain is MP. 2 players limp, Villain makes it $12, one caller, I make it $45 to go, folds to Villain who calls. Flop (Pot: $102) A94 rainbow. Villain goes all-in for about $105. Hero? Villain hadn't done too much out of the ordinary but he was opening preflop a lot. He bluffed me once and I bluffed him once in some medium sized pots but no real history other than that. He wasn't as terrible as many live players but he wasn't good either.
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Jul 4, 2011 05:55
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Mind_Taker posted:Live $1/$2, effective stacks are about $150. I'm on the CO with JJ, Villain is MP. I'd go with a fold here, not enough info to put him on a bluff more than 30% of the time imo.
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Jul 4, 2011 06:07
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MAN OF MANY MOUTHS posted:I'd go with a fold here, not enough info to put him on a bluff more than 30% of the time imo. Do you think villain would lead out on the flop with an ace here? Wouldn't a check-raise (or check-call all-in) be a more appropriate move here if he had something like AJ-AK? By leading the flop he is allowing hands like TT-KK to fold (which is a huge part of my range as a 3-bettor). Mind_Taker fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jul 4, 2011 |
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Jul 4, 2011 16:26
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I'd say its possible, erring on the side of a 1/2 player being a moron vs being a thinking player is a pretty safe bet. I play at a dog track in Arkansas and that move is done with the Ace, with air, and with middle pair(seriously the game is that juicy) it just all depends on who it is. Also, I can't tell you how many times i've seen people make this move with a set here because they "put em on AK". I prefer to play it safe against unknowns and give them credit here, if they bluffed me congrats to them...ill get em eventually.
MAN OF MANY MOUTHS fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jul 4, 2011 |
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Jul 4, 2011 18:13
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| # ? Jun 17, 2024 17:22 |
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Live 1/2 game Villain seems okay, not too many crazy plays Stacks: hero 209 to about Lillian 320ish Hero: AK Preflop: Hero Raises to 10, villain calls Flop is A56 Rainbow, villain checks, Hero bets 15 villain calls Turn 9, villain checks, Hero Bets 30 villain calls River K, villain checks, hero bets 50, villain re raises all in.
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Jul 5, 2011 19:03
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