|
Thoguh posted:What the gently caress was the purple belt going for there? Possibly this: http://www.bjjheroes.com/techniques/donkey-guard Though I think it was mostly just mocking the guy for refusing to engage.
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 01:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 14:19 |
|
|
Thoguh posted:What the gently caress was the purple belt going for there? Jeff Glover donkey guard.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 01:25
|
|
|
colonel_korn posted:Possibly this: http://www.bjjheroes.com/techniques/donkey-guard Pocket Billiards posted:Jeff Glover donkey guard. It looks like the kind of thing you'd tell a white belt to try so you could laugh at them. Basically the BJJ version of sending a tenderfoot on a snipe hunt. "No man, it totally works, make sure you go for it right off the whistle"
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 14:11
|
|
|
Thoguh posted:What the gently caress was the purple belt going for there? Dude filming going, "HAH!" at the end was the best part.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 04:27
|
|
|
Donkey guard works. Great for kneebars and reverse body scissors.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 04:31
|
|
|
Who Gotch Ya posted:Donkey guard works. Great for kneebars and reverse body scissors. I watched the videos in colonel_korn's link and I can see how you could use the modified kani-basami entry for a legal takedown, but I'm still not seeing how presenting your rear end to an opponent and backing up would work as anything other than a gimmick. In the second video they were getting takedowns off of it but only because they were both loving around during an open roll. Basically popping into something off a handstand makes sense and I can understand how that could work. But twerking on the mat is a gimmick that only works if your opponent is to busy laughing at you to respond. The modified Kani--Basami entry I'm talking about from colonel korn's link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtZnUspnPB0
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 13:49
|
|
|
Glover's really interesting to me because he's such a positional relativist. It seems like the stability ball training has really been like a double-edged sword for him- he never gets put in uncomfortable positions, but he never really seems committed to taking/holding dominant positions. Donkey Guard seems like an extension of this mindset, and I don't think it's ever seen successful use in competitions, though I do remember him trying it (with predictable results) at EBI see 1:25-1:40https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bTPlNDvvNk
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 15:46
|
|
|
quote:he never gets put in uncomfortable positions, but he never really seems committed to taking/holding dominant positions. re: Donkey Guard chat, Glover's said in interviews that it was just something he came up with primarily to get the crowd pumped up. Kekekela fucked around with this message at 17:15 on May 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 17:11
|
|
|
Sometimes I worry that BJJ is becoming less practical as a martial art because of these various esoteric guards and styles of attack. This stuff can be really cool to watch (and do), but donkey guard isn't going to save you IRL when the guy you're pulling it on smashes you in the back of the head with a nearby object. It's mostly a baseless worry; the guys competing at that level are already pros at attaining top position and locking down control of an adversary's limbs, but sometimes I worry that with all the focus on eccentric guards that in the future BJJ might develop into something where guys just don't focus on the top game that much and new people coming in will have their learning influenced by the styles of the coaches in their gym that are doing this stuff. Especially since BJJ has always seen itself as the martial art that *actually works*, I don't want people to lose sight of those roots in the pursuit of fun and showy styles that only work in grappling tournaments. Hopefully MMA will ensure that the practical flavor of BJJ stays alive for a long time and no children will have their heads caved in by a bully because they decided to try out coach's new sombrero guard on a kid twice their size.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 17:26
|
|
|
Even judo, with all their rule chicanery, more or less works. I wouldn't worry too much about bjj becoming useless. To use an even older example. At one point you could clinchhit and use a much wider variety of strikes in boxing but guys didn't stop being able to gently caress people up even 100 years after they changed the rules. MMA helps keep thing honest too.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 19:00
|
|
|
Xguard86 posted:Even judo, with all their rule chicanery, more or less works. I wouldn't worry too much about bjj becoming useless. MMA gyms are replacing traditional martial arts gyms as the go to places to learn practical self defense.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 19:21
|
|
|
I'm gonna go really far out on a limb here and suggest that there is actually no such thing as 'real world practicality' for a martial art these days. Especially in BJJ, where we train to become specialists in weaponless 1on1 no-striking(or biting!) groundfighting, with the assumption that proper conflict resolution means viciously injuring opponents who refuse to submit, we're not exactly taking the most direct approach to building appropriate skills for meeting the challenges of daily life. It's more like the modern day martial arts mindset is that if you're capable of destroying another person with your bare hands you'll be such a badass that you should be able to just improvise your way through anything else that life throws at you, even if that initial 'destroy!' instinct isn't a good fit for the situation. In reality, I don't think it actually works out that way. I personally give the award for practicality in the realm physical/recreational activities to something like expedition leadership or maybe real serious yoga? Something like that. I just do grappling for the fun of it. I like the competitive aspects of the game and I know that the habits of strategic planning and coordination blend in to other areas of my life. E: To ease the abrasiveness of this post I'm including an awesome Judo match that I've been studying recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyRxB5Aqvww A Wry Smile fucked around with this message at 19:34 on May 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 19:28
|
|
|
i think doing jits can do a lot to develop mental tools that are very helpful in "real life"
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 20:18
|
|
|
A Wry Smile posted:real serious yoga
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 20:35
|
|
|
A Wry Smile posted:I'm gonna go really far out on a limb here and suggest that there is actually no such thing as 'real world practicality' for a martial art these days. Especially in BJJ, where we train to become specialists in weaponless 1on1 no-striking(or biting!) groundfighting, with the assumption that proper conflict resolution means viciously injuring opponents who refuse to submit, we're not exactly taking the most direct approach to building appropriate skills for meeting the challenges of daily life. It's more like the modern day martial arts mindset is that if you're capable of destroying another person with your bare hands you'll be such a badass that you should be able to just improvise your way through anything else that life throws at you, even if that initial 'destroy!' instinct isn't a good fit for the situation. In reality, I don't think it actually works out that way. I personally give the award for practicality in the realm physical/recreational activities to something like expedition leadership or maybe real serious yoga? Something like that. I just do grappling for the fun of it. I like the competitive aspects of the game and I know that the habits of strategic planning and coordination blend in to other areas of my life. This is a good point but I think when people say "real world practically" they actually mean: " if me and my untrained friend had a couple of beers and fought in our garage would I win and how easily?" I did TKD my entire childhood and teenage years and would honestly have to say I am not sure, probably not if they were even a little bigger or played a contact sport. I've done BJJ my entire adult life which is close to the same amount of time these days and its not even a question.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 21:23
|
|
|
A Wry Smile posted:I'm gonna go really far out on a limb here and suggest that there is actually no such thing as 'real world practicality' for a martial art these days. Especially in BJJ, where we train to become specialists in weaponless 1on1 no-striking(or biting!) groundfighting, with the assumption that proper conflict resolution means viciously injuring opponents who refuse to submit, we're not exactly taking the most direct approach to building appropriate skills for meeting the challenges of daily life. It's more like the modern day martial arts mindset is that if you're capable of destroying another person with your bare hands you'll be such a badass that you should be able to just improvise your way through anything else that life throws at you, even if that initial 'destroy!' instinct isn't a good fit for the situation. In reality, I don't think it actually works out that way. I personally give the award for practicality in the realm physical/recreational activities to something like expedition leadership or maybe real serious yoga? Something like that. I just do grappling for the fun of it. I like the competitive aspects of the game and I know that the habits of strategic planning and coordination blend in to other areas of my life. The most valuable training modalities for Actual Real World Self Defense are, in order from most valuable to least valuable 1) Awareness/Avoidance training 2) Verbal conflict resolution and de-escalation 3) Wind sprints 4) Grappling with strikes against a resisting opponent 5) Grappling without strikes against a resisting opponent 6) Striking without grappling against a resisting opponent
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 21:36
|
|
|
Xguard86 posted:This is a good point but I think when people say "real world practically" they actually mean: Yeah and that's the wrong question about "real world practicality." I'm adamant that there's no such thing as a street fight, just assaults, because you'll always have someone who is less willing to escalate the violence quite so far, be it through dirty tactics, maiming, calling in friends, or resorting to weapons. There's also nobody around to call it when it's over and prevent someone from getting hurt, and nobody to adjudicate what's "fair." If you seriously think about it, if you get attacked, and you take his back and get an RNC, and he taps, do you let go? How do you know that the fight is over when you let go? What's to stop him from rolling over and sucker punching you when you relax? Will he do that? What does that fight mean to you? How much danger are you in? What if you don't let go and he dies? Sounds unrealistic, perhaps, but my old Judo instructor told me an anecdote about a Judo-trained American soldier in the pacific theatre who had a Japanese commando take his back and RNC him in the dark. As he felt himself starting to grey out, he tapped out of desperation. His attacker let go by reflex, and promptly got an American knife in the guts for his mercy. Even if it's not true, and I can't verify it in any way, it's an illustrative parable. Hundred yard dash, yo. Only true self defense.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 21:37
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:The most valuable training modalities for Actual Real World Self Defense are, in order from most valuable to least valuable I'm gonna steal this and repost every time someone starts advocating for a McDojo or impractical looking self-defense course.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 22:04
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:The most valuable training modalities for Actual Real World Self Defense are, in order from most valuable to least valuable Where did you get this? It sounds spot on.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 22:20
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:If you seriously think about it, if you get attacked, and you take his back and get an RNC, and he taps, do you let go? If he has friends around, or you suspect he has friends around, you should never have even gotten to this point, because the second you took his back you should have been up and running, possibly with an elbow to the back of the head as a parting gift. If he doesn't have friends around, no, you don't let go, dipshit. You choke him unconscious and leave. Grappling isn't as important as running, but it is still important, because you still have to put yourself in a position to run, and as you pointed out, quote:there's no such thing as a street fight, just assaults If you get sucker punched, or sucker tackled, and wind up on the ground, you can be Usain Bolt and it won't matter a drat unless you can get back to your feet in a safe manner, and that requires grappling. Marching Powder posted:Where did you get this? It sounds spot on. My brain, and thirteen years of training with cops, bouncers, active military, and all the other people that take BJJ/shootfighting/mma classes for reasons more practical than competition.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 22:39
|
|
|
I have seen "street fights" where guys just square up and fight. It's not as common as someone just swinging out of the blue, but it absolutely happens.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 22:47
|
|
He expended too much energy and got tired
|
fatherdog posted:The most valuable training modalities for Actual Real World Self Defense are, in order from most valuable to least valuable Yup right on, very succinct. I think if we were to expand past RWSD into 'all-around practicality/injury prevention' I'd want to deliniate a specific category for balance/stability work too, which is where my mind was heading with the mention of yoga in my other post
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2015 23:11
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:The most valuable training modalities for Actual Real World Self Defense are, in order from most valuable to least valuable Can you please make this a PSP Poster. I'd buy it because it's so loving true. Also, Dangerism is right - weird "squared up" street fights happens and are normally God damned hysterical. Getting to spectate one is a hoot if nobody dies. Also, if you ever get into a conflict that involve FatherDog's 4 through 6 you will poo poo yourself in surprise at how quick altercations normally happen. Actually you just might poo poo yourself.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 02:32
|
|
|
True. All the real life confrontations I've been in ended within seconds with someone's head getting slammed into whatever was handy.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 02:45
|
|
|
Captain Log posted:Can you please make this a PSP Poster. I'd buy it because it's so loving true. I believe you mean a picture of Fatherdog's avatar with the text overlaid. So as to match what all the cool black belts are doing nowadays.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 02:59
|
|
|
Occasionally great things do happen in street fights. Watch the guy in white who tries to throw a quick, twice, at the boxer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8_zWBQXZj4
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 03:26
|
|
|
The last street fight I was in was years and years ago and I talked poo poo as I walked around a corner in Brooklyn and was instantly sucker punched so hard that my first thought was someone across the street had thrown a rock at my head. It went for a bit longer but I was done from the start. So yeah, avoidance is number 1. Shouldn't have been talking poo poo.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 03:27
|
|
|
Dangersim posted:The last street fight I was in was years and years ago and I talked poo poo as I walked around a corner in Brooklyn and was instantly sucker punched so hard that my first thought was someone across the street had thrown a rock at my head. It went for a bit longer but I was done from the start. So yeah, avoidance is number 1. Shouldn't have been talking poo poo. Wrong. You shouldn't be in New York. My first time there (I traveled a poo poo ton for business at an old job) had me decide to stop by my hotel for a hour nap before my meeting. In broad God damned daylight in the hotel parking lot someone through a loving cinderblock through my rental's window. They stole nothing. There was easily over a grand of tools and poo poo they could have grabbed. They didn't even take the GPS. Then the cops had to be called twice because their first time out they insisted the rental company, not them, needed to write a report. Of course the same rear end in a top hat cops arrived the second time to write the report. In closing, loving gently caress New York. I'll take Jersey any day of the week over New York. Sometimes I've had people ask me how to successfully navigate New York or other large cities. When it's New York my advice is always, "Walk down the street while focusing on having the demeanor that communicates you could kill someone at any moment." I get thanked for this advice after the fact.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 03:54
|
|
|
I visited ny a few years back and my friend (boxing at the time) took me out with his pretty girlfriend and her friends. We got hollered at like every 3rd block and my friend would yell back and , I poo poo you not , shake his fist in the air like a bad cartoon. The first time I was all ready to fight or run but nothing happened. He told me that as long as you yell back you're ok but if you don't say anything they might come after you. So in summary: Self defense step 1: Live somewhere civilized.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 04:21
|
|
|
Dangersim posted:Shouldn't have been talking poo poo. This is pretty much right. I've been challenged to fights, but I haven't been in fights, because I don't talk poo poo/dgaf if someone talks poo poo to me.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 04:30
|
|
|
I grew up 15 miles outside New York, it's really not dangerous other then a few areas, like any other city. I believe it's the safest major city in America. Anyway I knew the guy who hit me so it wasn't like a random incident. Never had any problems in New York but that may be because I don't look like a tourist (because I'm not) and know my way around.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 04:34
|
|
|
I love how everyone's go-to reference for street defense is NYC, like this is the early 80's or something. It's probably the safest major city most of you have ever been in.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 04:43
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:I love how everyone's go-to reference for street defense is NYC, like this is the early 80's or something. It's probably the safest major city most of you have ever been in. One too many Charles Bronson movies, I suppose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAME2NCkFK4
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 04:47
|
|
|
fatherdog posted:I love how everyone's go-to reference for street defense is NYC, like this is the early 80's or something. It's probably the safest major city most of you have ever been in. Yeah I lived in NYC back in 2000 and it was not the wild west I am seeing described. I think the closest I came to a fight was some crossing guard on the upper east side making me intervene when 2 ten year olds were scrapping.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 05:34
|
|
|
I'm not saying it's the Wild West. I'm saying its full of self important assholes. Six million people live in New York - get over yourselves and stop being so god damned impolite. I have hidden from gunfire in my beloved hometown of Nashville. I'm lucky enough to have also traveled America and parts of the world a lot throughout my life being that half of my family isn't from this country. There are many places I hate and many really sketched out places. New York has always just held a spot over even loving Jersey as being full of assholes. It ties Paris. Also I've gotten very lost in the 8 mile area of Detroit and been threatened by a group of twenty or more people pouring into the street. That experience was in a category of its own. (Dangerism I'm sorry if I don't like your home-ish town. Go ahead and make fun of Tennessee now. I'll even start you off - KKK birthplace, home of the Scopes trial, the list goes on.)
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 06:30
|
|
|
Captain Log posted:I'm not saying it's the Wild West. I'm saying its full of self important assholes. Six million people live in New York - get over yourselves and stop being so god damned impolite. lol
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 06:36
|
|
|
Captain Log posted:New York has always just held a spot over even loving Jersey as being full of assholes.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 11:41
|
|
|
If you travel somewhere and think everyone there is an rear end in a top hat...it's probably you who's an rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 12:42
|
|
|
You couldn't figure out the guy's a psycho sperg from his posts in here already?
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 14:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 14:19 |
|
|
so, balance tips / techniques?
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2015 14:29
|
|