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It was her age that surprised me. Obviously it's a huge cliché thinking "trolls" are all teenage boys, but at 62?
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Oct 6, 2014 12:13
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Extreme0 posted:So how many times has the Top Gear Presenters put their lives/sensiblity on the line during these trips and stunts? Was the episode when Clarkson was driving on the narrow section of 'death road' in Bolivia scripted by any chance or was Clarkson just that brave (and stupid?)
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Oct 6, 2014 12:18
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Jippa posted:It was her age that surprised me. Obviously it's a huge cliché thinking "trolls" are all teenage boys, but at 62? I believe the average age of YouTube commenters is around 40.
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Oct 6, 2014 12:53
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I really don't like the narrative that she was somehow unique and rare. That it isn't a common belief that the McCanns killed Maddie. Because it is. I'm not saying it's true or false but it isn't a rare belief in the least. It's not so much bad press as wholesale reality adjustment.
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Oct 6, 2014 12:57
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I don't think the ongoing McCann media saga does anyone any benefit at this point. This should really have been quietly dealt with.
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Oct 6, 2014 13:10
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Regarde Aduck posted:I really don't like the narrative that she was somehow unique and rare. That it isn't a common belief that the McCanns killed Maddie. Because it is. I'm not saying it's true or false but it isn't a rare belief in the least. "Maddie" has been practically deified by the press at this point, and this has rubbed-off Mary and Joseph style onto her parents. It is simply unacceptable for the press narrative that a lot of people think her parents killed her, so they simply deny the existence of the majority of these people and make examples out of the nastiest of them. It's the kind of thing the press is good at (they would similarly never have you know that a majority of the UK population favours EU membership, stronger press regulation, etc).
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Oct 6, 2014 13:17
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I think the fact that printing stories saying "was she murdered by her parents" is a good way to lose a very expensive libel case because, you know, you have no actual evidence, might have something to do with it?
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Oct 6, 2014 13:22
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Zephro posted:I think the fact that printing stories saying "was she murdered by her parents" is a good way to lose a very expensive libel case because, you know, you have no actual evidence, might have something to do with it? Isn't UK libel laws backwards though, where you have to prove you didn't murder her? That's why a lot of American/Russian/Whatever celebrities would come here for "libel tourism" (which happens alot less now because of things like this but still domestically can still happen alot unless they've changed the law).
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Oct 6, 2014 13:32
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Jippa posted:It was her age that surprised me. Obviously it's a huge cliché thinking "trolls" are all teenage boys, but at 62? The teenage boys doing it were probably wise enough not to have it trackable to them, so sky news couldn't ambush them on the way to school Fangz posted:This should really have been quietly dealt with. I think that's what the parents tried in the first place, look where it got us
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Oct 6, 2014 13:34
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Fluo posted:Isn't UK libel laws backwards though, where you have to prove you didn't murder her? That's why a lot of American/Russian/Whatever celebrities would come here for "libel tourism" (which happens alot less now because of things like this but still domestically can still happen alot unless they've changed the law). This is exactly how libel law should function, too. You can't just go around printing defamatory statements for which you have literally zero evidence. The idea (as suggested earlier in this thread) that there's some conspiracy by the press to cover up THE TRUTH is just crazy.
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Oct 6, 2014 13:53
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Zephro posted:The idea (as suggested earlier in this thread) that there's some conspiracy by the press to cover up THE TRUTH is just crazy. The press ignore the fact that people favour the EU, immigrants are good, and people think the Mccanns did it because police psychologists say their behaviour was unusual. The press' job is to cover up the truth.
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Oct 6, 2014 13:54
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Spangly A posted:The press ignore the fact that people favour the EU, immigrants are good, and people think the Mccanns did it because police psychologists say their behaviour was unusual. The press' job is to cover up the truth.
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Oct 6, 2014 14:00
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Zephro posted:No, the press avoid printing stories alleging that the McCanns did it because they would quite rightly get taken to court and lose the subsequent libel case because there is no evidence that the claim is true. If you think there's a newspaper in the land that would turn down definitive proof of a story like that because they promised some masonic conspiracy that they'd all keep schtum then I don't even know what to say. You're missing the point. The papers have always been unhinged about the McCanns and most people in England couldn't give less of a poo poo. There's no conspiracy, just stupidity.
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Oct 6, 2014 14:03
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Spangly A posted:You're missing the point. The papers have always been unhinged about the McCanns and most people in England couldn't give less of a poo poo. There's no conspiracy, just stupidity. quote:It is simply unacceptable for the press narrative that a lot of people think her parents killed her, so they simply deny the existence of the majority of these people and make examples out of the nastiest of them. It's the kind of thing the press is good at (they would similarly never have you know that a majority of the UK population favours EU membership, stronger press regulation, etc). The real reason the press don't interview a bunch of people who think the McCanns are guilty and then print the story is that they'd get taken to court for libel and lose. And quite rightly, too.
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Oct 6, 2014 14:10
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ronya posted:hmm yes, London infrastructure and housing should be a high-yield asset, even when flush with newly-mobilized funds. You sure about that, Boris? Is London's greatest bar to infrastructural or housing investment really an underdeveloped financial industry leading to credit shortages, so that mobilizing savings will create a glorious golden age of growth stemming from presently-unexploited investment projects? London, the new developing economy?
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Oct 6, 2014 14:17
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The general news media has been pretty biased towards the McCanns anyway though. I'm not saying that they should have libeled them or accused them without evidence, but right after it happened the local press in Leicester was sanitizing their comments to remove anything vaguely critical of the parents. Even things as simple or uncontroversial as "They left young children alone. I think that is bad" got effectively written out of the mainstream media consensus of the case. Let's not pretend that if they were anything other than middle class white media savvy people the right wing gutter press wouldn't have jumped all over the child neglect angle. Especially child neglect to go out and get drunk.
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Oct 6, 2014 14:18
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This is great
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Oct 6, 2014 14:19
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Andre Le Fuckface posted:This is great
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Oct 6, 2014 14:27
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I'd like to share this wee update from Gordon Maloney, head of NUS Scotland, as it could be relevant for renters in Scotland.quote:The Scottish Government have just launched their consultation on the new Private Rented Sector Bill - we have been campaigning hard for this bill to address the ridiculously high cost of renting a home and pushing for the introduction of controls and limits to rent. And we did it! Consultation is here: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2014/10/9702
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Oct 6, 2014 14:29
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Coohoolin posted:I'd like to share this wee update from Gordon Maloney, head of NUS Scotland, as it could be relevant for renters in Scotland. Basically, it looks like an attempt to placate people who want reform without doing anything of substance to change the workings of the private rented sector.
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Oct 6, 2014 14:54
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Guavanaut posted:The general news media has been pretty biased towards the McCanns anyway though. I'm not saying that they should have libeled them or accused them without evidence, but right after it happened the local press in Leicester was sanitizing their comments to remove anything vaguely critical of the parents. Even things as simple or uncontroversial as "They left young children alone. I think that is bad" got effectively written out of the mainstream media consensus of the case. Yeah, I've no idea if they killed their daughter, I've certainly seen no evidence to suggest they did but the way they neglected all their children should've lead to a lot more condemnation than it did. Even the kneejerk response to criticism of "they lost their daughter" doesn't really hold up to the fact their neglect directly contributed to them losing her.
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Oct 6, 2014 15:03
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ReV VAdAUL posted:Yeah, I've no idea if they killed their daughter, I've certainly seen no evidence to suggest they did but the way they neglected all their children should've lead to a lot more condemnation than it did. Even the kneejerk response to criticism of "they lost their daughter" doesn't really hold up to the fact their neglect directly contributed to them losing her. What exactly does condemning them achieve? I'm pretty sure they're painfully aware they hosed up since, y'know, their daughter disappeared.
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Oct 6, 2014 15:19
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Isn't the usual argument that if they'd been working class without the PR training and all that the papers would have been baying for their blood and absolutely no one would be sticking up for them?
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Oct 6, 2014 15:25
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Mr. Flunchy posted:What exactly does condemning them achieve? I'm pretty sure they're painfully aware they hosed up since, y'know, their daughter disappeared. To counter the hagiography they received. Maddie going missing is consistently treated as an act of God rather than an outcome of their behaviour. There's no need for a witch hunt but a bit of balance wouldn't go amiss. Ideally it would've been a news item for a few days which talked equally about what a shame the kid going missing was and simultaneously examining how people on holiday neglect their kids rather than a years long saga about how innocent little Maddie going missing was a totally unavoidable tragedy. edit: More generally the news highlighting and condemning mistakes people make encourage others not to make the same mistake themselves. ReV VAdAUL fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 15:34
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Coohoolin posted:Isn't the usual argument that if they'd been working class without the PR training and all that the papers would have been baying for their blood and absolutely no one would be sticking up for them? Imagine the difference in treatment if it had been some stereotypical 'chav' couple in Ibiza instead. 
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Oct 6, 2014 15:39
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Andre Le Fuckface posted:This is great If you do really well, we can continue to not pay you and get rich off the proceeds ourselves for another few months. Snakes alive that's a good deal.
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Oct 6, 2014 15:52
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ReV VAdAUL posted:To counter the hagiography they received. They were properly witch hunted at one point though - I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be in their shoes. The wikipedia page has quotes like: "Corpse in McCann Car" "Brit Lab Bombshell: Car DNA is 100% Maddie's" quote:Within weeks of the disappearance, the couple's middle-class status, at first protective, turned into a weapon against them. They were harshly criticized for having left their children alone despite the availability of Ocean Club babysitters and an evening crèche. Seventeen thousand people signed an online petition in June 2007 asking Leicestershire Social Services to investigate; the argument ran that a working-class couple might have faced child-abandonment charges, but a group of doctors on a posh holiday had been let off the hook.[143] Novelist Anne Enright wrote that parents distancing themselves from the McCanns became a "potent form of magic," one that kept their own children safe.[144] quote:The McCanns testified in November 2011 as core participants before the Leveson Inquiry into press standards in the UK. The inquiry heard that the editor of the Daily Express, in particular, had become "obsessed" with the McCanns. Lord Justice Leveson said the newspaper had published "complete piffle" about the couple, while Roy Greenslade called the Express articles "a sustained campaign of vitriol."[145] The British tabloids regularly cited Portuguese newspapers, which in turn referred to unnamed sources. "Maddie 'Sold' By Hard-Up McCanns," ran one headline in the Daily Star.[146] quote:Kate McCann – or "Hot Lips Healy," as one tabloid called her after digging up an old university nickname – came in for particular attention, considered too attractive, too thin, too well-dressed, too intense, too controlled and not mumsy enough, according to media analyst Caroline Bainbridge.[147] Several tabloids criticized her for not crying in public, despite her obvious distress; the Portuguese tabloid Correio da Manhã complained that she had not "shed a single tear" and called her "cynical and strange," at the same time relying on Portuguese police sources to portray her as hysterical and out of control. Kate told the Leveson Inquiry that photographers would lurk near the couple's home and bang on her car as she left with the twins to obtain a startled expression for a photograph.[148] I'm not sure your view of the coverage is held up by what came out in the Levson enquiry. Suggesting they stashed their daughter's body in the boot of the car, or even sold their daughter (thanks Daily Star!), never mind all the personal attacks, surely indicates the opposite of a hagiography?
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Oct 6, 2014 17:58
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Coohoolin posted:Isn't the usual argument that if they'd been working class without the PR training and all that the papers would have been baying for their blood and absolutely no one would be sticking up for them? That's a pretty good argument, but then surely the best response is to be angry at the papers for demonising working class people rather than being angry that the McCans haven't been demonised too.
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Oct 6, 2014 18:32
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Crameltonian posted:That's a pretty good argument, but then surely the best response is to be angry at the papers for demonising working class people rather than being angry that the McCans haven't been demonised too. Oh sure, but you've also got the inverse which is to not assume they DIDN'T do it. I'd say a fair level of cynicism here is healthy. Also my flatmate is Portuguese and they're all convinced it was the parents so maybe I'm biased.
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Oct 6, 2014 18:35
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Coohoolin posted:Oh sure, but you've also got the inverse which is to not assume they DIDN'T do it. I'd say a fair level of cynicism here is healthy. Also my flatmate is Portuguese and they're all convinced it was the parents so maybe I'm biased. Yeah that's fair enough, cynicism has never steered me wrong before. Though I'd hesitate to comment either way because I didn't exactly follow the whole circus that much. Was a bit unfair picking on your post because you weren't saying anything like that but some people ITT sound like they're demanding Trial By Media as an overreaction to the treatment they've gotten. People really should know better than to suggest that the lynch mob mentality of our media is in any way a desirable thing.
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Oct 6, 2014 18:48
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Coohoolin posted:Isn't the usual argument that if they'd been working class without the PR training and all that the papers would have been baying for their blood and absolutely no one would be sticking up for them? Try to imagine the Alice Gross story having the same amount of media saturation if she'd been from a minority ethnic group. Middle-class gets you a certain amount, but being white seems to be the biggest leg-up in terms of media coverage.
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Oct 6, 2014 18:52
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Prince John posted:Stuff
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Oct 6, 2014 19:59
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Regarde Aduck posted:Is this all you do now? serious gaylord posted:But you see, it was the no voters that can't let it go. That's rich coming from you two.
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Oct 6, 2014 20:11
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Anyone going to the RIC 2014 conference? Tickets going like hotcakes, venue has now been bumped up the the Armadillo and Science Centre. http://radicalindependence.org/2014/09/29/ric-conference-2014/
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Oct 6, 2014 21:02
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That is a pretty impressive achievement! A few of my friends are going, I was planning to decide nearer the time if I wanted to trek through to Glasgow yet again for it, though at the rate it's going, they'll be scalping tickets on ebay!
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Oct 6, 2014 21:09
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Alice Gross was murdered very near where I live. I can't help but think noone in the media would really give a gently caress if she wasn't a good looking white girl, as awful as that sounds. E: I say good looking in a general sense, nothing more there. I'm not Saville.
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Oct 6, 2014 21:24
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keep punching joe posted:Anyone going to the RIC 2014 conference? Tickets going like hotcakes, venue has now been bumped up the the Armadillo and Science Centre. I'll probably be there. EDIT: Just bought my ticket. £4 for students, ace. Coohoolin fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 21:25
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Does anybody actually have a story of an ethnic-minority family whose child disappeared in similar circumstances to Madeline McCann and yet was contrastingly rounded on and demonised by the media, or is this just what the Book of Correctness tells you should happen?
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Oct 6, 2014 21:32
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kapparomeo posted:Does anybody actually have a story of an ethnic-minority family whose child disappeared in similar circumstances to Madeline McCann and was universally rounded on and demonised by the media, or is this just what the Book of Correctness tells you should happen? No because the point is that they don't get into the headlines at all. It's the lower class white families which get hauled up and told off.
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Oct 6, 2014 21:34
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kapparomeo posted:Does anybody actually have a story of an ethnic-minority family whose child disappeared in similar circumstances to Madeline McCann and yet was contrastingly rounded on and demonised by the media, or is this just what the Book of Correctness tells you should happen? Not an ethnic minority, but the case of Shannon Matthews was incredibly similar before it was solved, and the only differences was that she was from a working class family and the way the tabloids treated the story. In a less concrete sense, 47% (EDIT: this is the figure for the US, anyone got one for Britain?) of missing children are from an ethnic minority and roughly all of the media focus on missing children is on white ones. So take your concerns about political correctness, roll them into a tube and shove them up your bum.
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Oct 6, 2014 21:40
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