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FoolyCharged posted:Well, yes. The rock star developer stuff really only works with small dev teams. I think the only AAA dev that got that sort of treatment recently was Jake Solomon with the firaxcom games. Pretty much everyone else I can think of got that reputation when dev teams were small enough 1 person had a significantly more sizable impact. Chris Sawyer, Sid Meyer, Romero, Kojima, Miyamoto, Metzen, and so on. You still see some of that today, but it's all limited to the Indy scene where the dev teams stay small, or even solo, for cost reasons. That said, there are definitely team leads that love to promote themselves as 'rock star developers'.
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Sep 1, 2023 03:53
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As I mentioned earlier, my time with Warcraft as a setting ended midway through Burning Crusade, though I glanced in here and there during WotLK. I have no strong opinion on things that happened after that. It's after my time.
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Sep 1, 2023 06:19
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SirPhoebos posted:....is it time to talk about the Orangutan? No!! 
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Sep 1, 2023 07:39
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Cythereal posted:They can change for the better anytime they want to. This really cannot be emphasized hard enough. Blizzard is no stranger to retcons - they can rewrite their history at literally any time, and have on multiple past occasions. Nothing is stopping them from fixing their mistakes except a lack of motivation.
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Sep 1, 2023 08:42
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Kith posted:This really cannot be emphasized hard enough. Blizzard is no stranger to retcons - they can rewrite their history at literally any time, and have on multiple past occasions. Nothing is stopping them from fixing their mistakes except a lack of motivation. They even have an in-universe force constantly trying to change the backstory, so it's not like it would even have to all happen on authorial fiat, just say the Infinite Dragonflight hosed around and unboned the past either intentionally or as a side effect of some other plot that everyone failed to prevent.
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Sep 1, 2023 09:13
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Cythereal posted:And in the off chance Melth reads this LP, thank you for giving me a wonderful idea to spice up the next mission, it worked nicely. "is this part of the show, or..." "actors, please stick to the script!" "BRAWL ON THE STAGE FLOOR! YEAHH"
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Sep 1, 2023 09:34
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Kith posted:This really cannot be emphasized hard enough. Blizzard is no stranger to retcons - they can rewrite their history at literally any time, and have on multiple past occasions. Nothing is stopping them from fixing their mistakes except a lack of motivation. Counter-motivation is also a factor. Creators of entertainment in which long running narratives and lore as a core part of the product they're selling live in constant fear of the Emotional Off-Ramp. There is an order of magnitude difference in the eyes of a consumer between a retcon of something that only ever existed in a backstory book (like the Draenei/Eredar retcon) vs a retcon that recontextualizes an event that they saw (all the poo poo in Shadowlands surrounding the Third War) vs retconning something core to their identification with the game or changing an event they witnessed so that it didn't happen or happened substantially differently. That's probably why Blizzard's recent years of output have a clear trend toward trying to do less problematic evolutions of their old concepts without erasing the old concepts and thereby enraging people who like those concepts and don't care about their problems. The Highmountain Tauren and Zandalari Trolls are both excellent examples. In some ways they're actually held back by the fact that they have to have any association at all with the classic Tauren and Trolls. One of the criticisms I keep hearing about Dragonflight is that its tonally too "soft" and "touchy feely" and lacks the "heavy metal edge" and "beer and pretzels fantasy" that is core to people's understanding of what makes Warcraft special. I haven't played it so I can't comment, but I find it interesting that as far as some people are concerned, the current Dev Team is already too far away from what Warcraft is or should be, and they haven't changed much at all.
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Sep 1, 2023 20:05
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Horde 3: Backdraft  Tell me, Dreamer. Where were you during all of this? Fighting a battle none of you knew was happening, within the Dream. Convenient. You aren't the only dragon here who knows what it's like to be in the grip of the Old Gods, Onyxia. Don't waste time pretending you're specially aggrieved. In the story, much of the Scourge was mustering to sail west to Kalimdor at this point. The Legion was just having fun with the scattered remnants of the northern Eastern Kingdoms while they brought forces through the portal to Azeroth.  But we have an arc villain to meet.  Mannoroth the Destructor is a member of the Legion's ruling council, and the most junior of the lot.  Mannoroth is the leader of the pit lords, the Burning Legion's premiere jobbers. They're big, they're scary, they almost never accomplish anything.  Recall that it was Mannoroth's blood that physically corrupted the orcs and gave rise to the Horde. The Horde was devised by Kil'Jaeden, but Mannoroth was in theory the demon lord overseeing everything. Which means that the Horde's failure was Mannoroth's failure.  This scene is interesting because, in combination with Undead 5, this scene strongly implies that the last of the Old Horde has been destroyed by this point. They will never be referred to again, and every time people talk about 'the orcs,' they're referring to Thrall's faction.  Obviously we know that lore-wise this is not the case and the bulk of the Old Horde's remnants are in fact under the indirect control of the Old Gods by this time.  No, we will never be told who Tichondrius' agents are.  Mannoroth is not exactly the Legion's most brilliant strategic thinker and evidently slept through the briefing on what the Legion's plan on Azeroth even is.  Frankly, we're on a good start to the Dumbass Power Hour. Now for the orcs' contribution!   Nonononononono... What's with Hellscream? You're about to find out.  Yes, boredom and the beating sun have put us all on edge. But we must push on! All will be made clear once we reach the Oracle. As you say, Warchief.The Horde campaign, in my opinion, suffers badly for lack of a consistent threat to revolve around. The centaurs are, at the end of the day, just creeps. Blizzard's still holding the Burning Legion back. And we're almost halfway through the third campaign and the last playable race hasn't even been mentioned.   For those wondering where Jaina had gone during the undead campaign, here's your answer: she had assembled a fleet of volunteers and sailed west to Kalimdor following Medivh's warnings. Being familiar with Azeroth's seas, Jaina's fleet avoided the Maelstrom and landed on Kalimdor well before the Horde did, then heard about the Oracle from sources unknown and began moving inland towards it.   No, Medivh did not tell Thrall that he'd also be sending the Alliance to Kalimdor or warn Jaina that he'd already sent the Horde west. From what little has been said about this part of Jaina's expedition, they landed in what is now Durotar and made their way inland towards Stonetalon Peak, skirting the edges of the forests and avoiding encounters with both the centaur and the tauren. The high elves in Jaina's force warned her that their oldest legends spoke of Kalimdor and that death hid in the forests, so Jaina avoided detouring too far north.  The initial Alliance force on this map is the Stromgarde Brigade, volunteers from that nation who chose to take their chances with Jaina.   Same way we did, little brother. Apparently, a frail girl named Proudmoore leads them. Her forces have cordoned off the pass that leads to the north. Well, we must make it through the pass despite her. I'll send our hunters to scout the area while we establish a base. Until then, the humans are not to be touched! Whatever you say, warchief. ...It seemed like a good idea at the time. I get why Blizzard made the campaign this way, but re-tutorializing the Horde after the prologue campaign rubs me the wrong way. In a more ambitious remake, I could see an alternate version of this mission being offered for those who played the prologue, giving you more of the tech tree right away.  But thanks to the new alliance with the tauren, I have kodos to play with! They're a useful support unit that passively buffs the damage of nearby units and can eat small enemies, removing them from play while dealing steady damage to them. Killing the kodo will free the eaten unit if it's still alive.  Now for the actual objective: there's a goblin lab at the north end of the map, and Alliance bases dotting the region. You need to reach the goblins and get two zeppelins.  Complicating matters is Grom.  Grom will constantly attack the Alliance. There's an optional objective to roll with it and wipe out all the bases. I will not be doing this.  It felt... right. Like I'd been born for this. I hadn't felt so alive since the Second War.  Grom, did you ever consider just... settling down and starting a family? I had a son. He was still on Draenor when the Portal was destroyed. He'd have been better off joining his mother. You see, the survival of Grom or his base is not a mission objective.  Which means I'm free to do this using the force-attack command.  Blizzard accounted for the possibility of you doing this, too. Once you destroy two Warsong buildings, the faction turns hostile to you.  Note that there's no reward for doing this beyond stealing the Warsong's mine and the satisfaction of giving Grom a well deserved boot in the rear end.  There's not even any dialogue for it, much less an alternate victory condition or some such, which is a real missed opportunity in my book.   Lady Moonberry, are you sure this is what happened? I swear! It be true, boss lady! Da Darkspears were really confused by dis. After kicking Grom's rear end, I go on an adventure with Thrall that, in hindsight, I should have brought an army for and am very glad I'm playing on Story difficulty.  The various Alliance bases will periodically attack even with Grom gone, and include the first canon appearance of Gilnean forces in any Warcraft game! There are four bases here: the Stromgarde Brigade, the Gilneas Brigade, the Lordaeron Corps, and the Kul Tiras Marines, in roughly ascending order of strength.  If you have sharp eyes, though, you don't need to attack the Alliance at all. Skirt around the Stromgarde base in the southwest, then break through the rocks here...  And there's a passage that sneaks around the edge of the map.   And what does our human warlord think about this? War was never my purpose. Not like this. War brought out the best in you. A more damning indictment of my character has never been spoken. Yeah. I finally lost a hero in this LP. Fortunately I built an Altar of Storms so Thrall came back quickly enough. I didn't want to risk a big army in these narrow passageways and thought Thrall could take it.  No, Warden. I think crisis brought out the best in her. Isidora was never so alive as when she felt she was needed. I don't think she ever enjoyed war for its own sake. She is Kyrian, after all. ...Why are all of you looking at me like that? Why do you idiots think I never joined a house in Maldraxxus? It's not because I'm not strong enough. A true warrior would simply take the pass from the humans. Have you lost what's left of your mind, Hellscream? I gave you a direct order to leave the humans alone! What the hell is wrong with you? My son was everything I'd hoped he would be, and I'm ashamed of him. I don't know what's come over you and your men, but your bloodlust is a liability that I can't afford. I'm sorry, Thrall. You're right. I... I can handle it. No man who has ever said that could handle it. This order right here might be the single biggest mistake of Thrall's entire life.  Until next time.
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Sep 1, 2023 23:45
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What to Expect When You're Expecting the End of the World So now that we've met the main leaders of the Burning Legion, what about the rank and file? Today's subject, some of the common soldiers of the Burning Legion.  The eredar haven't changed all that much since Argus was consumed by the Legion. Some have red skin now, and some have wings, but most eredar are still largely what they were when Sargeras found them: a civilization of natural sorcerers who cultivate knowledge and enlightenment as the highest virtues. Now, though, they're also interdimensional space fascists who have a special order of inverted paladins known as tyrants who enforce the social order of eredar civilization. That order is very much that might makes right, and magical might is prized above physical strength. Most eredar remain well behind the front lines, and quite a lot of them still haven't even left Argus, now the Legion's central command. Taking the front line is for the exceptionally aggressive and the foolish in their eyes, and the eredar never take to the field en masse except when things are of the foremost importance to the Legion. Eredar fill out much of the Legion's officer ranks, and are generally accepted within the Legion as the first among equals.  Dreadlords are of course not actually demons at all, thanks to Danuser, but instead deep cover agents from the Shadowlands. Still, I'll talk about them here. Dreadlords are perhaps the most commonly seen officers among the Burning Legion, and are extremely adept at magic, particularly necromancy and dimensional manipulation. When there's a plan that requires teaching mortals dark magic, dreadlords are usually the teachers, and they often serve generally as spies with their mastery of illusion magic. Dreadlords are also noted for having an affinity for creating magic items: while Frostmourne itself was created by the imprisoned Primus in the Shadowlands, the lesser runeblades wielded by other second-generation death knights were crafted by the dreadlords. Most of these magic items are booby trapped with domination magic to bind the user to the dreadlord who created the artifact, and truth be told Frostmourne was seen by the rest of the Legion as merely an unusually powerful example of a breed of weapon that the dreadlords had used to ensnare mortals for eons. Nominally the dreadlords answer to Tichondrius the Darkener, the Legion's spymaster and master of assassins, but in truth Mal'Ganis is running the show and is the secret mastermind of the entire Burning Legion courtesy of being the one who answers to Sire Denathrius in the Shadowlands.  Pit Lords, more formally the Annihilans, are a naturally occurring demonic race native to the Twisting Nether rather than corrupted mortals. Little has ever been detailed about their society or civilization, if they even have any as natives of the Twisting Nether. Whatever the case, pit lords are pound for pound among the strongest and most destructive warriors within the Legion, making them the perfect jobbers for big names in Warcraft. Being natives of the Twisting Nether is also why drinking Mannoroth's blood had such a corrupting effect on the orcs, the pit lords are genuinely alien beings from another realm of existence entirely. Pit lords are, however, also known to be few in number, and so are generally held in reserve for important situations by the Legion. Mannoroth the Destructor represents his race on the Legion's ruling council, and in the lore is actually stated to be quite intelligent and cunning, the only known pit lord said to be equal to an eredar magistrate in arcane power and knowledge.  Infernals are artificial constructs created by Legion artificers to serve the Burning Legion as, essentially, disposable attack drones. This is not to say they aren't intelligent - infernals do in fact have a sentient soul within. The core of every infernal is a fire elemental, summoned by Legion sorcerers, then pumped full of fel energy and bound into an enchanted stone core. This core then animates a body around itself from any matter at hand. With the elemental within the core in almost all cases hopelessly insane from all of this, infernals are rarely anything more than maddened engines of destruction controlled and directed by magic. Sentient infernals are extremely rare, but not unheard of, and uniformly all too aware of their enslavement by the Legion. This seems to happen more often with the advanced variants known as abyssals, which are produced by the Legion attempting to provide a ready-made stock of better materials for the infernal core to shape a body out of.  Felhounds are, like the pit lords, a naturally occurring species of demon native to the Twisting Nether. Felhounds do not follow the normal rules of biology, and are completely dependent on consuming magic to survive. When a felhound consumes enough magic, they spawn more of themselves, all miniature clones of their parent. Felhounds are inherently attracted to arcane energy, and have been adopted by the Burning Legion as tracking hounds to sniff out arcane spellcasters, and general attack animals. When attacking locations rich in arcane magic, such as Zin-Azshari, Dalaran, and Silvermoon, felhounds can quickly turn from a relatively minor threat on the battlefield into a plague as the felhounds gorge themselves on arcane energy and reproduce at astounding rates that grow to adulthood in days or even hours and then begin spawning more of themselves. Sargeras is personally found of felhounds as pets, and keeps a couple as his personal hunting dogs.  The Sayaad are one of the more enigmatic races of the Burning Legion, it's unclear whether they are some corrupted mortal race or native to the Twisting Nether and the sayaad work very hard to keep their origins a secret from mortals. Sayaad are more commonly known as succubi and incubi, and are in truth a single species with no set gender or even particular appearance, the bodies of the sayaad are extremely morphic and they are capable of adopting the appearance of any humanoid being they like. They're, well, succubi and incubi, avatars of temptation and seduction with side lines as torturers, interrogators, and the like.  Imps are most often seen in the male of the species: tiny, vicious little demons adept at fire magic who enjoy wreaking havoc and mischief. Far more rarely seen is the female of the species, bloated beings who continuously churn out offspring and seem to exert some kind of telepathic command over the males. Please don't ask the obvious question, I'm assuming that demons are weird like that and will say no more on the subject. Not much is known about the origins or history of the imps, but it's been implied that they are in fact a formerly mortal race that was conquered by the Legion and conscripted into service. The imp matriarchs at least seem to serve willingly and are treated with some degree of respect by the rest of the Legion, the males are treated as little more than vermin by both mortals and other demons. Interestingly, at least one imp matriarch was an accomplished adept of illusion magic who worked with the sayaad and seduced a member of the Kirin Tor into betraying her order.
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Sep 1, 2023 23:46
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....Wait that rock wall was there the whole time?! Seeing that, I booted up my non-Reforged copy. Sure enough.... That was a Reforged addition, the Blue Alliance base in the top left is too close for you to squeeze by in vanilla, with no rock wall around them. The best way to deal with this level when you're just playing is simply to act like Grom's group is an extra set of reinforcements and power through a base. Each time his assault fails a counterstrike from said base will attack you, though each base won't respond until Grom runs in.
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Sep 2, 2023 00:03
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Of course there have to be succubi. Sometimes it would be nice to have a race of demons that feel confident enough to lure mortals astray without using tits.
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Sep 2, 2023 00:17
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Right. so. Reforged... changed dick-all about this mission. Everything interesting happened in 1.33. In particular, that side-path that Cythereal took to avoid all the human bases? Didn't exist before 1.33. There was a side-path... but it came out into the back end of the Blue Human Base. You still had to fight through at least PART of their base to access the Goblins no matter what you did. The other notable thing is that all the Enemy Heroes were renamed. The Light Blue Base, the Lordaeron Corps, uses Barracks units and Priests. They are led by a Paladin who, prior to 1.33, used a random name (like every Alliance Hero on the map). Now, that Paladin is identified as Brother Karman, who went on to become a Paladin Trainer in Theramore in World of Warcraft. The Gilnean Brigade, despite its name, actually uses exclusively Dwarven units; nothing but Riflemen and Mortar Teams. It's led by a Mountain King, who 1.33 identified as Torq Ironblast, who went on to become a Gun Vendor in Theramore in World of Warcraft. The Kul Tiras Elite Corps use barracks units and Priests, but are also the only one of the three smaller enemy bases to employ Sorceresses. Uniquely, they are the only force to not have a Hero leading them. The Alliance Expedition is the most balanced, all-around force on the map, and will use a bit of everything. They, along with the Stromgarde Brigade, are led by an Archmage. These two Archmagi draw on a randomized list of three names: Archmage Xylem, Archmage Tervosh, and Horace Alder. The latter two would both remain in Theramore, while Archmage Xylem would instead set up in a tower in Azshara, further to the north.
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Sep 2, 2023 00:20
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As a mildly interesting note, Imp Mothers are walking Twisting Nether portals, and that's how they call forth endless Imp forces. Imps themselves are actually born of the chaotic energies of the twisting nether, not biologically if I remember correctly. Technically I think the Imp Mothers and Imps are not the same species at all because of this detail.
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Sep 2, 2023 00:29
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Lord_Magmar posted:As a mildly interesting note, Imp Mothers are walking Twisting Nether portals, and that's how they call forth endless Imp forces. Imps themselves are actually born of the chaotic energies of the twisting nether, not biologically if I remember correctly. Technically I think the Imp Mothers and Imps are not the same species at all because of this detail. I saw it suggested both ways on the wiki, it's never been conclusively established. PurpleXVI posted:Of course there have to be succubi. Sometimes it would be nice to have a race of demons that feel confident enough to lure mortals astray without using tits. At least they eventually added incubi...?
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Sep 2, 2023 00:44
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 oof, Mannoroth's head is looking rough in the new graphics. He wasn't exactly pretty in the original, but he looked more like someone I would take seriously. 
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Sep 2, 2023 01:56
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Reforged really did a lot of not giving a poo poo whether a character was supposed to have a beard or not, huh
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Sep 2, 2023 01:58
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The dialogue in this mission has the most laughably bad splicing of "Grom" into "Hellscream" in the entire game.
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Sep 2, 2023 02:03
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Did Vol'Jin and the Trolls sail over with the Orcs or do they show up later?
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Sep 2, 2023 02:04
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Did Vol'Jin and the Trolls sail over with the Orcs or do they show up later? The trolls are there, you have them from the start of the campaign, but Vol'jin isn't really a character until the expansion. Tenebrais posted:Reforged really did a lot of not giving a poo poo whether a character was supposed to have a beard or not, huh To be fair, he doesn't have a beard in most of his depictions even in this game's own CG cinematics!, but they got the skin color wrong and he really shouldn't look nearly that fat. And his head is supposed to be on fire, too. Rhonne fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Sep 2, 2023 |
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Sep 2, 2023 02:05
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Did Vol'Jin and the Trolls sail over with the Orcs or do they show up later? If you think back to the end of the demo missions from back when, the island they met on sinks in the last mission, and they all bugged out together.
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Sep 2, 2023 02:40
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Tenebrais posted:Reforged really did a lot of not giving a poo poo whether a character was supposed to have a beard or not, huh Yeah, I really read him as having a beard before and my reaction was "they made him a fat toad?"
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Sep 2, 2023 02:44
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one of the cases of poorer graphics making for a better product, i suspect old mannoroth looks suitably alien and unpleasant that you can buy he's a problem, new mannoroth looks like Slimer with tusks
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Sep 2, 2023 03:27
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Blizzard, unsurprisingly, smears the "fat = evil" trope around unrelentingly.
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Sep 2, 2023 03:30
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Is there any specific reason they've been dubbing Grom into Hellscream?
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Sep 2, 2023 03:39
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Terrible Opinions posted:Is there any specific reason they've been dubbing Grom into Hellscream? Trademark for legal reasons. Wouldn't want to confuse Grommash Hellscream with any old Grom, now would you?  Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Did Vol'Jin and the Trolls sail over with the Orcs or do they show up later? Go back and read the prologue campaign. The trolls joined up but Vol'jin won't be a thing until the expansion.
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Sep 2, 2023 03:40
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Terrible Opinions posted:Is there any specific reason they've been dubbing Grom into Hellscream? Grommash is a lot more copyrightable than Grom, but the lore established that Orcs who become really close friends only use the shortened nickname with each other, never the full name, so using Hellscream is the compromise. Also they had a soundbite of Metzen saying "Hellscream" in the Thrall voice but probably not "Grommash."
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Sep 2, 2023 03:44
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Pieces of Peace posted:Blizzard, unsurprisingly, smears the "fat = evil" trope around unrelentingly. yyyep one of those interesting cases where it's partially technical in nature, though. i fondly recall someone new to video games playing... it was either skyrim or one of the fallouts, stealing everything from an old lady for kicks, and proceeding to lose her poo poo giggling at the fact that the old lady was a 20something with a bangin' bod from the neck down. because hey, why would we bother making a different body type just for old ladies, right? but, since bosses can justify the dev time for one-off models (mostly, yes, they do tend to get reused from time to time), there and there alone they get to play around with body types. putting together another entire set of every armor set in the game for fat people? pain in the rear end! best compromise you're going to get there is Elden Ring style "this armor makes you fat, don't worry about it." but when you're brainstorming a way to make Arc Boss #372 stand out, "what if they were fat as hell" is a quick and easy way to do that thanks to the fact everyone else in the universe caps out at "maybe not underweight"
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Sep 2, 2023 03:47
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Cythereal posted:
Of course, those missions where you recruited the trolls were not in the original release of the game, so little kid me was a pretty confused about where these new trolls came from.
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Sep 2, 2023 03:52
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There's set ups of a plot here that works. Thrall is trying to establish a New Horde, and Grom is a big glaring example of the Old Horde. And he's both a terrible and great example - he's the one who trusted Thrall as a fellow orc from the start, gave him a lot of confidence and faith in the orcs as a people, and he's a living legend and war hero...and he's not just a living representation of so much that was wrong with the Old Horde, he's still all those things wrong, as person. Thrall needs the legitimacy of the Old Horde and, more then that, has a lot of faith in Grom as a person and the positive ideals he represents, but he also knows that the negative side of Grom will ruin things, so he delegates him what should be a simple task away from the frontlines to cool down. With only the information he has right now, this is an entirely understandable decision! It's also a storyline that I think a lot of Horde RPers were into. That push and pull between a violent past and a desired peaceful future (in a world that just won't let that happen). Thoughts about things like legitimacy and tradition. I played Horde on the RP server and a ton of orc players loved that conflict between what they want to be and what they felt the world was pushing them into; knowing that the "Old Horde" had a ton of problems but not wanting to completely abandon your peoples' past and certainly not abandon your cultural identity. The non-Forsaken side of the Horde being explicitly "non-European cultures," and often real world indigenous peoples coded, only made the part about "not abandon your cultural identity" ring stronger. It was a more gray morality that a lot of Horde players liked - your peoples' heroes were not always good people, were often quite bad people, but they were also your heroes, and they were still foundational to your people existing. I haven't really kept contact with any of them, but I'd wager they were all real unhappy with the increased writing of "actually orcs were and always will be evil marauders, lmao."
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Sep 2, 2023 04:35
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ProfessorCirno posted:There's set ups of a plot here that works. Thrall is trying to establish a New Horde, and Grom is a big glaring example of the Old Horde. And he's both a terrible and great example - he's the one who trusted Thrall as a fellow orc from the start, gave him a lot of confidence and faith in the orcs as a people, and he's a living legend and war hero...and he's not just a living representation of so much that was wrong with the Old Horde, he's still all those things wrong, as person. Thrall needs the legitimacy of the Old Horde and, more then that, has a lot of faith in Grom as a person and the positive ideals he represents, but he also knows that the negative side of Grom will ruin things, so he delegates him what should be a simple task away from the frontlines to cool down. With only the information he has right now, this is an entirely understandable decision! Grom was one of the first figures in Warcraft that really grabbed me, along with Jaina. Something about that moment where he just switches off The Warmonger and realizes what he's saying to Thrall is so compelling, it's seared into my memory. He's so clearly ashamed of himself. He practically BEGS the young warrior who was his mentee and is now his leader to give him another chance because he's so completely failed here. Thrall wants him to be better, NEEDS him to be the hero the young Orcs born in the camps or as refugees see him as. One of the last Warlords of the Horde, the man who fought back against their oppressors when no one else was left to stand against them, the one old leader who didn't abandon them. And he just keeps falling so far short he's not even in the same zip code. He's a villain, but everyone wants him to be a hero, and as a result he WANTS to be a hero, but he fails at it almost every time he tries. It was magnetic to me, especially since I started in WoW and went BACK to WC3, as if I were one of the young Hordelings born in the new era reading a history book.
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Sep 2, 2023 04:49
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hey, want to make Grom's character feel much, much worse? Chris Metzen swears up and down he had no idea about the various horrible poo poo Blizzard higher-ups were getting up to. but let's imagine, for a moment, that the dork who made an unreasonable amount of money writing warhammer/star trek fanfiction might be fibbing a little about that. let's look at the warcraft 3 orc campaign. there's this guy who Chris Metzen's self-insert is working with. he couldn't have gotten here without him. he respects him. he likes him. and the feeling appears to be mutual. they do not have each other's talents, but they respect one another for what they bring to the table. but the second Chris- er, Thrall, is out of earshot, he falls victim to certain... hungers. and Thrall has to cover for him. discipline him for his failures. and every time, Grom swears: he's sorry. he'll do better. he really will. just give him a chance. and then he does it again. WHO WANTS SOME SUBTEXT, GAMERS
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Sep 2, 2023 05:04
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I think that's more then a reach. This really isn't that uncommon of a storyline in the grand scheme of things and it fits perfectly in Warcraft's comic book world. Blizzard management did horrendous things; we don't need to invent conspiracies on top of that.Sanguinia posted:Grom was one of the first figures in Warcraft that really grabbed me, along with Jaina. Something about that moment where he just switches off The Warmonger and realizes what he's saying to Thrall is so compelling, it's seared into my memory. He's so clearly ashamed of himself. He practically BEGS the young warrior who was his mentee and is now his leader to give him another chance because he's so completely failed here. Thrall wants him to be better, NEEDS him to be the hero the young Orcs born in the camps or as refugees see him as. One of the last Warlords of the Horde, the man who fought back against their oppressors when no one else was left to stand against them, the one old leader who didn't abandon them. And he just keeps falling so far short he's not even in the same zip code. He's a villain, but everyone wants him to be a hero, and as a result he WANTS to be a hero, but he fails at it almost every time he tries. It was magnetic to me, especially since I started in WoW and went BACK to WC3, as if I were one of the young Hordelings born in the new era reading a history book. Warcraft 3 isn't a complex story, but I think its draw is that it has a bunch of simple but flawed characters. Nothing that really works the brain...so it's easy reading enough that it can draw you in. Grom is a fun character to work with; he has big obvious flaws and big obvious virtues, and he has an almost immediate great interplay with Thrall. And The Horde storyline, painted in broad strokes, is fun for the same reason.
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Sep 2, 2023 06:08
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The reason that Grom works for me as a character is because he's struggling with multiple addictions and he's trying so hard, all the time, to be better. He has completely believable weaknesses given his past and his failings definitely aren't surprising but they're totally understandable, and he's utterly ashamed of himself every time he realizes he's hosed up. And then there's his son, who was so much of a belligerent rear end in a top hat that he blamed his failures on his friends and family instead of spending any span of time doing any amount of introspection. They couldn't be any more different as characters, and yet they constantly get compared due to their familial relation. Kith fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Sep 2, 2023 |
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Sep 2, 2023 08:33
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:yyyep
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Sep 2, 2023 12:38
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The thing with Mannoroth specifically (and I guess Pit Lords in general) is that his original design isn't particularly tapping into the Evil Fatty thing. They're very chunky creatures, sure, but they don't really invoke any sense of grotesque obesity or anything. Where they're fat it's more in the way a rhino is fat than the way Doctor Robotnik is fat. It's the Reforged portrait specifically that gives him a big ol' double chin and generally bulbous features that make him look fat in ways that don't even come out on his gameplay model. Can't even really blame Blizzard for this one besides not investing enough to work with the artists - just another one of those things literally any amount of revision feedback would probably have fixed.
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Sep 2, 2023 13:12
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Somebody made the original but I had to add the next step to it (right side).
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Sep 2, 2023 17:04
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Eregos posted:Somebody made the original but I had to add the next step to it (right side). This is one of the most cursed images I've seen all month
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Sep 2, 2023 17:22
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Fajita Queen posted:This is one of the most cursed images I've seen all month Agreed, it's cursed in more ways than one. But if you think about it, Arthas mounted an insurrection against the Lordaeron establishment to get the rulership he saw as rightfully his, and the establishment branded him traitor, but that wouldn't stop him. I see some parallels here.
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Sep 2, 2023 17:37
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Let's not do this y'all.
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Sep 2, 2023 17:41
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I loved running around with my felpuppy as a warlock in WoW. I'm curious though, is there a reason that the second Warlock pet wasn't covered in the post about demons?
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Sep 2, 2023 18:43
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