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So I went over on Sunday to give him a hand with his brakes, intending to be over for a couple hours then head to Renton to help MikeTsi with his talon. Sadly, that did not come to pass. My friend is treating this car in a way Ive never experienced. His motto seems to be buy everything it needs and then put it on.   Holy poo poo dude. Theres everything in these boxes. Front rotors, grease seals, loaded calipers, master cylinder, rear shoes, drums, wheel cylinders , hardware kit, upper and lower balljoints, headlight switch, wiper switch, water pump, NOS AMC 78 gremlin coolant temp gauge (  ), and other odds and ends. So we loaded up and set to work. Our first obstacle was getting the loving drum off. Once it was off we found the issue, someone ha slapped new shoes into this drum which had worn into place. We were unable to back the adjuster off so it took a lot of good old fashioned swearing and beating to remove.  Then we discovered the brake shoes were for the 9" drum and he had 10s on the car. So to get it rolling again we did what we had to do. This is temporary till the new shoes show up, nobody had them on the shelf.  Did what we could for this side. Upon getting the left rear off we found it down to the rivets on that side, like the previous owner had only slapped shoes on the one side.  As by now we were running terribly behind schedule, we took a look at what needs doing. Replaced the headlight switch and the wiper switch was taken care of. Then looked into the front brakes and found one side looking like new on thickness and the other side metal to metal. Decided we didnt have enough time to tackle it all, the fronts are taper bearing in rotor like most older cars and while we have all new hydraulic parts elected to soak it all down in penetrant and wait a few days.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:05
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 21:49 |
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Work commences.
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Dec 9, 2014 03:57
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YES.
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Dec 9, 2014 10:39
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OFFICER 13 INCH posted:Work commences. You're doing the lord's work, 13".
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Dec 9, 2014 17:13
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So when are you EFI 4.0L swapping it?  or 4.5 stroker...
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Dec 9, 2014 17:16
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I'm already working on a 4.5 stroker if you know what I mean
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Dec 9, 2014 17:34
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Progress. New battery, the other one was just about done for good. Some slightly uneven brakewear. Its getting everything front to rear master and calipers and rotors and drums and shoes etc.  Right front.  Left front.  Then I noticed that the rotor grease seals were wrong. So I walked all the way down 15 blocks to Oriellys in the rain since I swapped my car ror his yesterday. Least they had them in stock. Asked the parts guy how much for the seals.  He said about tree fiddy.
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Dec 9, 2014 19:00
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This is shaping up to be so cool. No, I take it back, it already is cool. I need to learn how to post like you, my thread is poo poo.
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Dec 10, 2014 07:46
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Jan 2, 2015 04:35
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Work continues on the Gremlin. After paying to get it out of impound (oops) I decided to double down on getting some progress done to appease my buddy. Todays work wound up being a full six pack job. Btw Ninkasi's Sleighr is the best winter beer.  Gotta get the right tunes for the mood.   Finished replacing the rears full brakes, wheel cylinders, correct shoes, hardware, adjusters, and drums both sides.  Got the master cylinder replaced, which, gently caress the top two bolts. Also the studs arent on the master theyre on loose brackets which if youre doing the job alone have to figure out a way to start the nuts without pushing the brakets back through the firewall and onto the ground.  An interesting note, the dual circuit reservoir has a front/rear split unlike the usual diagonal split circuits.   
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Jan 19, 2015 06:25
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OFFICER 13 INCH posted:An interesting note, the dual circuit reservoir has a front/rear split unlike the usual diagonal split circuits. Is that not how they usually are? It looks like most dual circuit masters I have looked at, and the one on my car.
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Jan 19, 2015 08:35
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Raluek posted:Is that not how they usually are? It looks like most dual circuit masters I have looked at, and the one on my car. He means how the lines are routed, not the master itself.
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Jan 19, 2015 08:36
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Fucknag posted:He means how the lines are routed, not the master itself. It still looks just about exactly like I'm used to seeing. Halp? 
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Jan 19, 2015 08:43
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Raluek posted:It still looks just about exactly like I'm used to seeing. Halp? I think he's saying it's split so that the fronts run off one, and the rears off the other. Instead of f/r and f/r.
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Jan 19, 2015 10:08
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Yeah and Raluek is saying that's pretty normal to have one reservoir just for both fronts together, and one for the rear together, not a diag l/r split. I've seen it plenty too. The cons of Front/rear split is if your fronts leak then you've only got rears to stop, the pro is if it's the rears failing it will be a minor effect. The cons for a right/left diag split is it's still going to pull badly to one side (and you don't get to know which until you put the anchors on). Then there's the brake systems with a mixed proportioning valve bolted to the firewall and I don't even know what's going to happen then. E: I don't mean the proportional valve for rear drums that's often on/near the rear axle to reduce rear drum brake pressure (which only works if you have a f/r split master cylinder btw) Fo3 fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 10:31
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iwentdoodie posted:I think he's saying it's split so that the fronts run off one, and the rears off the other. Instead of f/r and f/r. Yeah and that's how mine works, and how I'm used to them looking. Going diagonal seems like a weird way to do it for the reasons Fo3 said. I can't imagine the car would handle predictably with one front and one opposite rear brake engaging. Plus then you'd have a real weird proportioning/distribution block.
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Jan 19, 2015 10:55
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I've seen both f/r and l/r set ups. F/R more likely with older pre 1980s cars with rear drums (cost savings as single brake line and proportioning valve). L/R split more likely with later cars that have rear disc brakes. If the manufacturer is bothering about rear discs, may as well run an extra rear brake line. E: and many proportioning/distribution functions are handled inside the master cylinder these days. Or they're likely to have add on ABS which is a completely different story. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 11:12
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Fo3 posted:I've seen both f/r and l/r set ups. Huh weird. I don't usually spend much time with stuff that's not smog exempt, so I guess I just assumed that anything without ABS also broke it up front/rear, since the master cylinders don't look that much different. I'll have to take a closer look next time I'm at the junkyard.
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Jan 19, 2015 11:39
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Toyota really likes to do diagonal split. I think Subaru does too but not really sure? Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep uses front/rear, which is what I'm used to. I start nuts on studplates that I can't reach by pulling on the other stud while starting the first nut. That's assuming I'm not upside down and praying for 3 double jointed elbows and fingers that work backwards while under the dash of a microcar, though. Which is just miserable, generally.
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Jan 19, 2015 15:41
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I didn't know the FF/RR split was that common actually, I thought it was a gremlin oddity because every master cylinder I've ever had to replace was the diagonal routed kind. Or I just didn't notice. Either way I learned something new.
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Jan 19, 2015 16:31
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Fords are front/rear too, at least on the trucks. Actually, basically anything with a live, driven axle at one or both ends will PROBABLY be front/rear since it's so much easier to run a single hydraulic line to the axle and then split it to both rear wheels. I've seen fullsize dodge trucks (specifically the 93-down firstgen Rams) that have *three* front brake hoses - one from frame to axle housing, then two from the axle housing to the brake calipers. Weird to look at at first, but it also means that the brake lines on the chassis amount to two pieces of pipe, one to the rear and one to the front, which is kinda nice, no digging through harnesses and vac lines on the firewall or steering/cooling system garbage on the engine cradle to replace the passenger side front one.
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Jan 19, 2015 16:51
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Raluek posted:Yeah and that's how mine works, and how I'm used to them looking. Going diagonal seems like a weird way to do it for the reasons Fo3 said. I can't imagine the car would handle predictably with one front and one opposite rear brake engaging. Plus then you'd have a real weird proportioning/distribution block. I know my CX7 was diag split, and it's the only newer car I'd had to do brakes on so I thought that was just the new norm. I don't think it's so much for predictable handling, so much as at least you still have one front brake if something happens. In theory, anyway.
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Jan 19, 2015 21:07
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Vehicles offered with a mixture of drum brakes and disk brakes are ff/rr.
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Jan 19, 2015 21:20
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OFFICER 13 INCH posted:I didn't know the FF/RR split was that common actually, I thought it was a gremlin oddity because every master cylinder I've ever had to replace was the diagonal routed kind. Or I just didn't notice. Either way I learned something new. Taking a closer look, I'm pretty sure that master cylinder isn't even a Gremlin thing. Looks pretty drat identical to a front disc / rear drum Chevy master:  Wouldn't be the first time AMC's had their fingers in another manufacturer's parts bin.
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Jan 19, 2015 21:33
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Fo3 posted:Yeah and Raluek is saying that's pretty normal to have one reservoir just for both fronts together, and one for the rear together, not a diag l/r split. I've seen it plenty too. Bold is the reason they went to diagonal on newer cars. Predictable handling is good, not having a failure mode that leaves you with 30% or less of your designed braking capability is better.
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Jan 19, 2015 21:54
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Fucknag posted:Bold is the reason they went to diagonal on newer cars. Predictable handling is good, not having a failure mode that leaves you with 30% or less of your designed braking capability is better. I guess, but I'd much rather have the car go where I expect it to than have better braking. Always better to be able to steer, and if you go to steer and brake in an emergency I'd rather have the steering do the right thing. Although I guess it's pretty uncommon to have a hydraulic problem you don't know about, anyway.
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Jan 19, 2015 22:04
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Fucknag posted:Bold is the reason they went to diagonal on newer cars. Predictable handling is good, not having a failure mode that leaves you with 30% or less of your designed braking capability is better. That and a lot of people wouldn't have any idea what to do if they locked their rear tires up trying to brake.
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Jan 24, 2015 08:14
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kastein posted:Fords are front/rear too, at least on the trucks. Can confirm, at least for the 1980 model year. I had a rear cylinder pop on me one day, and still managed to drive it the ~20 miles home just fine. It was sketchy as hell, but I still had front brakes... just a really spongy pedal. (I'm well aware of how monumentally stupid that was; in my defense, I was 17)
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Jan 24, 2015 08:22
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My 1992 Chevy S-10 has discs in front and drums in rear, and it has a diagonal split brake system. The Chiltons is for the whole range of 82-93 S10/S15/Sonoma/Syclone and it seems to say that all of these trucks have this same diagonal split brake system with front disks/rear drums.
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Jan 29, 2015 21:24
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Leperflesh posted:My 1992 Chevy S-10 has discs in front and drums in rear, and it has a diagonal split brake system. The Chiltons is for the whole range of 82-93 S10/S15/Sonoma/Syclone and it seems to say that all of these trucks have this same diagonal split brake system with front disks/rear drums. That's interesting. Do you have ABS? Do you have two separate soft lines going to the rear axle?
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Jan 30, 2015 01:24
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Raluek posted:That's interesting. Do you have ABS? Do you have two separate soft lines going to the rear axle? Whooops. I've just been reading the manual and, uh, I'm wrong. the proportioner splits front and rear, not diagonally. I must be thinking of one of my other vehicles, probably my old VW Golf? Or maybe my Mazda? I definitely worked on the brakes of one of my vehicles a few years ago and was surprised to learn about the diagonal split. Feeling kind of stupid now.
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Jan 30, 2015 02:01
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The problem is that drum brakes require about 10 pounds of residual pressure and disc brakes only require about 1. the residual pressure valve is inside the master cylinder for most rear drum brake systems, With a diagonal system, you would need 2 inline residual pressure valves, or like the S10, the combination valve.
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Jan 30, 2015 02:12
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Yeah, that makes sense, and I opened my my Chiltons because it was bugging me and I wanted to double-check. My truck actually also has rear wheel antilock only, not 4wheel antilock, so there's an ABS system sitting below the master cylinder on the rear line. It's going to bother the hell out of me now, trying to figure out what car or truck I worked on roughly six to eight years ago that had a diagonal system.
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Jan 30, 2015 02:16
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Hey 13", check this poo poo out :
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Jan 30, 2015 19:54
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Jesus christ, I'd get on a plane right now and have an epic journey home if I had 4k and a week of vacation to throw away. e: ... I kind of do sorta
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Jan 31, 2015 16:51
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 21:49 |
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If you guys like Gremlins watch Horns on netflix. It's about a man near seattle accused of murdering his one true love. And he drives a Gremlin. 
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Feb 4, 2015 20:56
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