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Turn 14 We might still be in this, folks! The two rebel regiments from the previous turn both routed, and the 2d Ohio has stood firm, though now it's at 804 Fatigue. The CSA did move up another two regiments, and at an oblique enough angle that I don't have clean lines of fire towards them. We'll see what we can do.  I try to make an organized withdrawal - the 2d Ohio and Gen Tyler move back one hex, I have 2d Brigade's two gun batteries withdraw north, and also 4th Brigade's one battery. Two guns are still Disrupted from their prolonge-firing from last turn, so they can't move fast enough and I just stack them with the 2d Ohio. I try to move the 1st Ohio into position, but again Disruption means movement is very limited and we can't even deploy into line yet. We didn't shoot at any of the rebels on our turn, but hopefully the defensive fire they'll take on the inter-turn will Disrupt them so that they can't assault.  Two regiments from 3d Brigade deploy into line, advance, and shoot at the lone rebel regiment posted on Mitchell's Ford. Assuming neither of them break, I can probably assault them next turn. The other two regiments are still making their way through the forest. Meanwhile, I send 3d Brigade's six guns back up towards Blackburn's Ford, to circle around and maybe try to support 2d Brigade from the other side.  4th Brigade is still putting up breastworks, and I use a pair of captured CSA guns to shoot at a spotted battery to their south. 
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Nov 30, 2018 04:27
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I'm really enjoying this game and the mini-dramas of whether the green units will rout or not every time they see the enemy. Do casualties start climbing when you get veteran units? Seeing as they will continue to stand and fight and not rout? Edit:\/\/ Awesome, thanks for the info! Dirt5o8 fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Nov 30, 2018 |
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Nov 30, 2018 14:27
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Dirt5o8 posted:I'm really enjoying this game and the mini-dramas of whether the green units will rout or not every time they see the enemy. Do casualties start climbing when you get veteran units? Seeing as they will continue to stand and fight and not rout? From what I understand of the manual: * The Quality value of a unit translates to a number, with Quality A being 6 and Quality F being 1 * If a unit is stacked with a leader, add 1 to this number * If a unit is stacked with another unit from the same brigade, add 1 to this number (* as an optional rule not active in this scenario, if a unit also has friendly units stacked on its left and right flanks, add 1 to this number) * If a unit is Disrupted, subtract 1 from this number * If a unit has Medium (over 300) Fatigue, subtract 1 from this number * If a unit has High (over 600) Fatigue, subtract 2 from this number * If a unit has taken enfilade file this turn, subtract 2 from this number * If a unit is Low on Ammo or Out of Ammo, subtract 1 from this number * If it is night-time, subtract 2 from this number Whenever a unit takes casualties, that number is compared to a random d6 die roll. If the die roll exceeds the Quality value, plus or minus all the modifiers, then the unit fails the morale check. If the failed check happened as a result of defensive fire by the other side, then the unit becomes Disrupted. If the failed check happened as a result of offensive fire or an assault, then the unit will Rout. Further, when a unit Routs, all adjacent units will also take a morale check. So, consider the 1st Ohio, which is a Quality D unit: Its base morale value is 3 It is stacked with Daniel Tyler, so the morale value increases to 4 It has Medium Fatigue, so the morale value decreases to 3 It is Disrupted, so the morale value decreases to 2 If, on the CSA turn, the 1st Ohio is shot at, they'll take a morale check. The game rolls a d6, and if the result is a 3 or higher, the 1st Ohio will rout. There's a 66.67% chance of that happening. Now, having said all this, the amount of casualties the unit has already taken has nothing to do with the morale check ... so yes, with higher quality units, they'll take longer and longer to Rout, which means they can take large amounts of casualties before they'll finally fail a check.
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Nov 30, 2018 16:23
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Turn 15 Against all odds, the 2d Ohio withstands two volleys of fire, gets assaulted by the 3d South Carolina, and still only retreats in good order instead of routing. I do lose the 2-gun battery in the overrun attack, but the line still has not yet broken. Meanwhile, the rebels at Mitchell's Ford itself have withdrawn north, and Sherman might be able to catch them in a pincer.  I withdraw the 2d Ohio. They're at 229 men/43%/Max Fatigue and badly need the break. I also continue withdrawing the two 2d Brigade batteries that made it out, and the 4th Brigade battery. The 2d NY Militia finally rallies, and I try to march them back into the line, but they're also at Max Fatigue, so they might not be able to put up much of a fight. The 3d Brigade batteries continue to march back up across Blackburn's Ford Finally, the 1st Ohio deploys into line and opens fire against the 3d South Carolina. This regiment is currently at 624 men/91% and 229 Fatigue (which is still considered low), so they might be able to hold together for a while longer.  The 2d Wisconsin advances right up to Mitchell's Ford, takes the objective hex, and then opens fire on the 7th South Carolina, across the stream. The 79th New York advances on its side and opens fire as well. The other two 3d Brigade regiments are still marching out from the forest (I left them in line formation so it's been real slow going). No activity in 4th Brigade's sector, except that the 2d Michigan has completed putting up breastworks (it's very faint, but you can see a small outline just below the unit's chit). 
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Dec 1, 2018 01:13
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Turn 16 The 1st Ohio takes fire from both CSA regiments, and gets assaulted by the 8th South Carolina, but they hold. Meanwhile, the rebels withdraw north from the Mitchell's Ford crossing. I've decided to make a stand.  I pull back the 1st Ohio, and organize the other two regiments at the base of the hill. Then, I take the three gun batteries from 2d and 4th Brigades, and unlimber them at this elevated house. If things go just right, I'll have at least one more turn before the rebels will get to the base of the hill, and in the meanwhile I can blast them with artillery. If they give me two turns, then the 3d Brigade artillery just across the way will get a shot too.  The 2nd Wisconsin crosses Mitchell's Ford from the south, and runs into the 2d South Carolina right in front of it, the 7th SC on its left, and a one-gun rebel battery on its right. I could have sat on the objective hex, but A. being out in the open while your enemies are in forest cover is a losing proposition, and B. it wouldn't be in the spirit of the scenario, as the intention is to drive the Confederates away from these fords, not just take arbitrary points on them, so I advanced. The 79th and the 13th New York both try to jockey for position to also cross the ford as necessary, while the 69th NY Militia faces south in case anything comes up from that direction. 
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Dec 2, 2018 02:40
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This is super cool to see and quite probably more exciting than what really happened. Do you still have a couple of Cav lads you can send out to that spotted CSA supply train south of the Cub Run?
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Dec 2, 2018 12:16
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so according to the OP this scenario started at 9 am on July 18, 1861, and the turns are 20 minutes long (he says two turns is 40 minutes at the end of the post. having completed turn 16, i think that makes it 2:20 pm, July 18. maybe 2:40 idk to summarize this wikipedia article about it, the IRL events in this area, starting at about 11 am, were an inconclusive two-gun Union bombardment across the river and an attempted river crossing against Longstreet's men that turned into a rout (idk how many hours that took). like 150 people died. and the map of today's events from that article. note how basically nothing happens  so i think gradenko turned a historical 'Recon & Skirmish' into at least something like a victory (he managed to take the fords, that much makes it better than historical) historically this seems to have been a failed attempt to turn the Confederate right flank; the Union decided to go for their left flank instead, and that's where the real battle took place. please correct me if/when that's wrong. things are up in the air a bit, but i wonder if this encounter is going to turn into the main battle of the scenario?
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Dec 2, 2018 20:37
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Turn 17 The rebels advance on my position at Holden house, but make no assaults. Meanwhile, they also withdraw north away from Mitchell's Ford, but probably just a hex or two and I just can't see well past the forest.  the 1st and 2d Ohio lay down a devastating enfilade fire on the 8th South Carolina, which are facing the wrong way, while the three gun batteries on Holden house open up on the 3d South Carolina, joined by the 2d NY Militia's musketry. Then, 3d Brigade's guns unlimber just across Blackburn's Ford. If the rebels stick around, they're going eat another faceful of cannon fire.  The 2d Wisconsin moves to their left, finds the 7th South Carolina again, and exchanges fire. The 79th New York crosses Mitchell's Ford and takes the single Confederate gun easily. The 13th New York also crosses the Ford and takes up the center. Finally, the 69th NY Militia advances just a little south to gain some elevation. In 4th Brigade's sector, all three regiments have finished constructing breastworks, so we should be in a strong position there.  I do feel as though the tide has turned in our favor again. BONUS: On the advice of Staff Officer FrangibleCover, I sent the 2nd Cav around and south to cross back through Blackburn's Ford and maybe capture some rebel supply wagons:   The 1st Cav is still Disrupted, and I can't send them through Mitchell's Ford because the middle-area between the ford and Holden's house is still probably occupied by the enemy.
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Dec 3, 2018 05:47
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Nice job! Well done with holding up the Rebels and starting to push them back. If you're good you an drive them from the field and take the first victory of what hopefully will be a quick war to restore the Union! And nicely played so far. Well done showing how to utilize infantry and support with artillery. You've done good evne with losing your cav early on.
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Dec 3, 2018 07:34
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wedgekree posted:Nice job! Well done with holding up the Rebels and starting to push them back. If you're good you an drive them from the field and take the first victory of what hopefully will be a quick war to restore the Union! Thank you! You and the rest of the audience have been very encouraging with your comments, and I'm looking forward to reading about the histories of these battles in parallel to give me a grasp of the proper battle tactics necessary to keep it interesting, especially since the Union is going to see a bunch of historical defeats for most of next year as we do these battles turn-by-turn.
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Dec 3, 2018 08:30
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gradenko_2000 posted:Thank you! You and the rest of the audience have been very encouraging with your comments, and I'm looking forward to reading about the histories of these battles in parallel to give me a grasp of the proper battle tactics necessary to keep it interesting, especially since the Union is going to see a bunch of historical defeats for most of next year as we do these battles turn-by-turn. Be glad this is a battle simulator rather than a logistics simulator! You're not having to figure out how to march through several hundred miles of forest, make railways, sort minie balls (which I guess weren't widely used at this point) and get them to the front! I do like this game shows some line of sight and scouting. Also remember, post George McClelland as your chief of staff. The man was amazingly competent at the job. Just not being an actual general.
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Dec 3, 2018 11:27
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Yay, hyperaggressive Cavalry actions!
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Dec 3, 2018 11:33
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Turn 18 We've got them on the run! The two rebel regiments break in front of 2nd Brigade, and the two other rebel regiments facing Sherman's 3d Brigade withdraw from the forest.  I know y'all might want blood, but let's take stock of 2nd Brigade: 1st Ohio: 498 men, 72% strength, 544 Fatigue 2d Ohio: 229 men, 43% strength, 893 Fatigue 2d NY Militia: 446 men, 69% strength, 896 Fatigue Given this status, I'm going to give the men a break. No action this turn.  At the 3d Brigade area, we advance a little outside of the woods and immediately spot the rebels again. We exchange fire, and Sherman moves to lead the 79th NY directly, but we'll keep inside cover for now. To the south, the 69th NY Militia is ordered to put up breastworks.  Finally, 4th Brigade spots a limbered 2-gun battery down the road, and the 2nd Cav rides hard to intercept and overrun it. They succeed. 
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Dec 4, 2018 06:09
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you've got both forks of the centreville-manassas road fortified on high ground south of bull run and you're raiding toward manassas. the rebels are gonna have to rescue their right flank, i assume - i assume that means the battle wouldn't be fought where it was historically. or maybe the rebels attack upriver. i guess we'll see what units show up tomorrow and where
oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 06:39
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Nicely done. You have your units in a fairly good defensive position if you have to and some quick fortifications. You can hold there pretty well and the Rebels are hastily disengaging and you're pushin gthem back fairly handily. And taking out a lot of their remaining artillery - well done. Rest them and then keep up the pressure. You'e doing a good job of holding your line together and keeping your regiments in a position they can support one another.
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Dec 4, 2018 07:31
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Yeah, you've overrun a lot of guns at this point. I hope the cavalry remembered to bring nails to spike their gun. Looks like you've got one of the routed Reb units, he can't get out of the river bend, but the other's probably going to make it across the Cub Run or rally.
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Dec 4, 2018 08:55
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Turn 19 More withdrawals routs between Mitchell's Ford and Holden house  No movement for 2d Brigade, though the batteries on Holden house did get visibility on that rebel regiment across the hill and shot them for a dozen more casualties. To the south, I have the 13th NY shift a little so that I have full visibility across the road. 2d Brigade Fatigue tracker: 1st Ohio: 513 Fatigue (-31 Fatigue since turn 18) 2d Ohio: 889 Fatigue (-4 Fatigue since turn 18) 2d NY Militia: 888 Fatigue (-8 Fatigue since turn 18)  The 2d Cavalry spikes the captured guns to prevent them from being reused by the rebels, then moves south to try and find that supply wagon that scooted away. 
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Dec 5, 2018 03:21
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Nice! The Rebels seem to be in flight and you can keep up the pressure, slam thier regiments that are left on the field, and hopefully get thier supply wagons.
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Dec 5, 2018 06:38
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Yeah, this seems to be going about as well as you could hope! I think I'd try to police up that trapped Rebel unit in the crook of the river just in case they rally and do something unpleasant to your back line.
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Dec 5, 2018 09:46
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Turn 20 Some of the rebel regiments have rallied or are otherwise trying to reorganize to the northwest, but I think we're pretty safe for now.  2d Brigade continues to bombard that one regiment that they can spot from their elevated position. Meanwhile, Sherman spots an opportunity, and leads the 13th NY in a charge against this isolated rebel regiment (we can't identify their colors). If they rout, their only options are getting pinned against Bull Run, or running north towards 2d Brigade, or running west towards the rest of 3d Brigade 2d Brigade Fatigue tracker: 1st Ohio: 485 Fatigue (-59 Fatigue since turn 18) 2d Ohio: 884 Fatigue (-9 Fatigue since turn 18) 2d NY Militia: 885 Fatigue (-11 Fatigue since turn 18)  2d Cav finally does spot that supply wagon ... but then they're Disrupted from taking the gun battery earlier, so they can't melee yet to capture them. Oops. 
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Dec 6, 2018 04:40
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Are you going to be continuing this as a campaign? How does the outcome of this battle affect the next one, and does the campaign take you through the entire war or just a portion of one theater?
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Dec 6, 2018 05:11
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Flavius Aetass posted:Are you going to be continuing this as a campaign? How does the outcome of this battle affect the next one, and does the campaign take you through the entire war or just a portion of one theater? I'm going to be LP-ing this for as long as people are interested / my interest+effort holds out. This scenario isn't "linked" to a larger campaign, so whatever happens here isn't going to affect the Battle of Bull Run scenario. There is a "campaign" feature in the game that takes you through multiple scenarios in sequence, with casualties being retained across those scenarios whenever the same unit shows up again in a later battle. Alternatively, there are also individual scenarios that cover much longer periods and areas, such as the entire Battle of Antietam over 40 turns, or the entire Second Bull Run over 81 turns (approximately 27 hours). Campaign Overland is supposed to have a single scenario that spans 1,390 turns, so you get to play out the entire three week period of the campaign over 125 kilometers of map, 20 minutes and 125 yards at a time. This particular product that I bought covers Bull Run, Second Bull Run, Antietam, and a couple other smaller battles within 1861 and 1862. If we were to do this chronologically, I'd play Bull Run, then buy the Campaign Peninsula game, then go back to this for Antietam and Second Bull Run, then buy the Campaign Chancellorsville game for Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville, then play through Campaign Gettysburg, then Campaign Overland, then Campaign Petersburg. And then there's still a separate set of games for the Western theater.
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Dec 6, 2018 06:33
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gradenko_2000 posted:Campaign Overland is supposed to have a single scenario that spans 1,390 turns, so you get to play out the entire three week period of the campaign over 125 kilometers of map, 20 minutes and 125 yards at a time. Yowza.
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Dec 6, 2018 06:40
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Turn 21 The rebels are still trying to get themselves organized to the west of Holden house. The 3d SC regiment, which we assaulted last turn, looks like it routed out of sight, but it can't have gone far.  I turn the 13th NY around, start probing south, and find the 3rd SC routed and pinned against Bull Run. We assault them yet again, and inflict 35 casualties at the cost of 24 of our own. 2d Brigade Fatigue tracker: 1st Ohio: 464 Fatigue (-80 Fatigue since turn 18) 2d Ohio: 884 Fatigue (-9 Fatigue since turn 18) 2d NY Militia: 883 Fatigue (-13 Fatigue since turn 18)  To the south, the 2d Cavalry cuts off the fleeing rebel supply wagon, but again cannot assault due to Disruption. Not much else going on - we're simply holding our positions at the Fords as instructed, and preparing for any further attacks by the Confederates.  After I hit "Next Turn", the Confederates make their move, and we are greeted with the end of the scenario and the victory point dialog:   Concluding thoughts on this scenario: The scenario ends at 3:40 PM of July 18, 1861, so those 21 turns represent a little over 6-and-a-half-hours of fighting. I specifically didn't tell the audience when this was going to end because I wanted to keep the narrative going that we were playing the game as if this was going to continue on for much longer. ________ We scored 303 points, and needed another 197 to get to a Major Victory. If I didn't gently caress up my cavalry scouting so badly early on, that might have saved me some ~100 or so points, and that would still leave us with another 100 to go. There are actually three other objective hexes in this scenario:  They're worth 50 points each, and with hindsight we know that they're completely unguarded, but the only way you'd be able to take them would be if you deliberately sent out your cavalry just for the purposes of tagging the hexes and literally nothing else. It felt really gamey to me to try and do this, because it would have gone against what we know of Daniel Tyler's orders on this day. Having said all that, we did accomplish our objective - Tyler secured both Fords and threw back the rebels. Bonham's Brigade will probably cross back towards the Confederate lines at Island Ford or Ball's Ford, since Tyler wouldn't have the force to make a full pursuit of it. ________ I don't know how this might have changed the battle: McDowell only ever wanted Tyler's movement to be a distraction+recon-in-force, and while we know that McDowell could have pushed through Bull Run a day earlier, that still leaves at least 24 and probably 36 hours where Tyler would have had to hold this position against the rest of Beauregard's army. ________ The reason why I was tracking the fatigue recovery of the 2d Brigade was that I was trying to estimate how long before they could get into fighting form again. We only have a small sample size, but we can see that the 1st Ohio recovered 80 Fatigue over three turns, which is an average of ~26 Fatigue per turn. They started at 544 Fatigue, so I think would have taken them about 9 turns (3 hours) to drop to Low Fatigue, and then 20 turns (6 hours 40 minutes) to drop to zero Fatigue. Considering the longer scenarios, I think it's actually possible to have a situation where you cycle-out a brigade or individual regiments and have them rest in the back, and then send them into battle again after they've managed to patch themselves up. ________ Unfortunately, there is no way to connect this to the larger Bull Run scenario, but I do have plans on how we'll continue with the rest of this campaign. Stay tuned!
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Dec 7, 2018 03:13
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Well done! So this was a delaying action/skirmish which probably would have held the flank a bit more stably.
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Dec 7, 2018 06:59
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thanks for playing through that, looking forward to the main event i feel like Tyler crossing Bull Run here would've changed things, since Tyler's entrenchments are probably only a few turns away from Manassas itself on the straightest shot from Centreville. if the Union had those positions i feel like they would likely want to use them to take the objective before worrying about Stone Bridge and other such upstream points where the historical battle took place. on the other side, the rebels would probably need to send their reinforcements to plug this hole in the lines. it all seems like it might've added up to an encounter battle that became the main engagement is that dumb or anything? i'm just reading wikipedia and looking at google maps here
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Dec 7, 2018 07:07
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oystertoadfish posted:i feel like Tyler crossing Bull Run here would've changed things, since Tyler's entrenchments are probably only a few turns away from Manassas itself on the straightest shot from Centreville. if the Union had those positions i feel like they would likely want to use them to take the objective before worrying about Stone Bridge and other such upstream points where the historical battle took place. on the other side, the rebels would probably need to send their reinforcements to plug this hole in the lines. it all seems like it might've added up to an encounter battle that became the main engagement I think that's plausible - I'm not 100% on how soon the rest of McDowell's army would have arrived, but if we assume that Tyler either holds on to Blackburn's Ford, or at least makes a fight of it, and if McDowell still wants his long turning maneuver, then Blackburn could have been site of the holding action (that historically took place along Stone Bridge), and then Ball's Ford / Island Ford become the crossing points to flank Beauregard (that historically took place at Sudley Springs).
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Dec 7, 2018 07:17
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gradenko_2000 posted:I think that's plausible - I'm not 100% on how soon the rest of McDowell's army would have arrived, but if we assume that Tyler either holds on to Blackburn's Ford, or at least makes a fight of it, and if McDowell still wants his long turning maneuver, then Blackburn could have been site of the holding action (that historically took place along Stone Bridge), and then Ball's Ford / Island Ford become the crossing points to flank Beauregard (that historically took place at Sudley Springs). Sounds good to me really. Depends I guess on at that point how both larger armies handle an engagement where they're mostly unblooded. But this definitely would have likely had the battle take place differently than historically - at least in separate places.
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Dec 7, 2018 12:01
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not to over-belabor my point, i just think this poo poo is interesting ya kno? but looking at this map from wikipedia's first bull run article we're basically in an alternate universe where '18 july - fords probed' became '18 july - union army breaks longstreet at the fords and advances halfway to manassas' (that wouldn't fit on the map though) edit: i've been scrolling between this map and the screenshot of the final turn and now i'm thinking it's less than halfway, maybe a third or a quarter of the way from the fords to manassas  i didn't want to post this earlier since it'd 'spoil' the confederate reinforcements, but especially since they seemingly came in through Manassas on the railroad, i'm assuming they would've been thrown into this fight instead of marched parallel to the front lines essentially under Union cannon fire probably the wikipedia article and google hold the secrets as to when/where the union reinforcements would've been available, but i'm guessing they were dribbling in through Centreville over the next few days? i know union generalship was kind of uh lovely but 'reinforce success' is a fairly basic principle they might've followed editedit: just for the hell of it and to give yall context, here's the modern view from the bridges across what would've been blackburn's ford:  and mitchell's ford or whatever the western one was called again:  mitchell's ford looks a lot easier to me but im pretty sure things have changed in 157 years. for example, when i grew up around here? no slaves. not a single one. except in the korean bath house (up at the top of the map in this scenario) allegedly. the more things change, eh? oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Dec 7, 2018 |
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Dec 7, 2018 18:42
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I don't know if there are any other CWG2 veterans following along but Blackburn's Ford will always stick with me as the first scenario of the Grand Campaign. Definitely will be following along to see how you keep Johnny Reb on the run!
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Dec 7, 2018 19:39
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For the next part of this LP, I'd like to open it up for people to express their preference on what I'll be playing next, because the game has multiple variants on the same battle: A. Historical - this scenario starts at 0300 with the Union forces already deployed and arrayed as they were historically. There are objective hexes across multiple fords of Bull Run, as well as objectives at Henry Hill, Matthews' Hill and Stone Bridge to represent the importance of those points and McDowell's intentions and orders. This wouldn't necessarily mean that the battle is going to turn to be historical though - I'd like to think that any attempt of mine to assault Stonewall Jackson at Henry Hill would be a coordinated one, and not a piecemeal one-regiment-at-a-time attack as McDowell originally did it.  B. Meeting Engagement - this scenario starts at 0600 with a completely bare map. Units will enter the game at the edge of the map, and there are no real objective hexes except for ones at the extreme edges of the map to represent a complete and total victory that implies marching on Richmond from Manassas or marching on Washington from Centreville. Practically, most points will be earned from inflicting casualties on the enemy, and this is supposed to keep the battle "organic" - Henry House hill isn't important because there's a hex to be captured, but it's important because it's an elevated position with a commanding view of the battlefield. Further, the arrival times of the units, and their entry hexes, will be highly randomized, making one's dispositions unpredictable. C. Race to Bull Run - this scenario starts at 0500 with about two divisions deployed just southwest of Centreville, with the rest of the Union army arriving later in the day. There are just two objective hexes, one at Blackburn's Ford and another at Stone Bridge. This is sort of a middle-ground between the full historical scenario and the meeting engagement.  D. Advanced Positions - this scenario starts at 0800 with most of the Union army already on the board, deployed into line, and having just made first contact with rebel forces just north of Bull Run. The objective hexes are the same as in the historical scenario, and this layout is supposed to let the player engage in combat immediately without having to spend the morning turns jockeying their forces for position.  Please write down your preferences in order for each scenario, and we'll tally up the votes by Tue, Dec-11, 0700 GMT.
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Dec 8, 2018 03:05
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I'm happy with a historical scenario, but I like the idea of a meeting engagement one best, I'd enjoy watching the turns of maneuvering I think. if not that, then the quick battle option, the compromise option falls between two stools or w/e so I believe that makes my preferential vote B A D C, in that order, thank you edit: C doesnt seem so bad when i re-read it, but gently caress it. four good choices right? but i really like wiping the map and seeing what happens - hope it doesn't ask too much of the AI also im finding the hex i grew up in and its crazy what roads were there back then editedit: another unsolicited screenshot from google street view, meant to maybe illustrate centreville's situation. this is facing west, down the road labeled Warrenton Turnpike on the 1861 map. somewhere near the top of the ridge around the big Centreville label on the map screenshots  this is the most scenic intersection in centreville, i think it's fair to say, since you can see the blue ridge mountains as above and sometimes all the way across the shenandoah too i don't think the mildly attractive view has a military value but it might illustrate why people kept fortifying this ridge idk also theres a like four story persian club or something on that intersection, i assume they have a rooftop bar with a good view editeditedit: keen eyed viewers will note that manassas is the next left. that road goes over blackburn's ford oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Dec 8, 2018 |
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Dec 8, 2018 05:40
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For my money I think that if you can't actually roll your consecutive successes into each other and then a swift defeat of the rebels, which you can't, you should just play the full historical scenarios every time so that we have maximum "Oh, if only this had actually happened." for every scenario. I liked the discussion of what the next moves would be after that little skirmish and I'd like people who know more about the ACW than I to keep that going.
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Dec 8, 2018 07:42
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B A D C I think a meeting engagement is 'interesting'a s we get to see more maneuvering on the battlefield and sections of it being imporant and there being a give and take (what ground is importnat to hold, where is the enemy focusing, etc) rather than pushing for specific parts. I think it's the most interesting to watch just as two green armies maneuvering on a battlefield and blundering their way into war makes for interesting discussion on how they fought/tangents. Failing that historical to more 'hey everyone hi let's bayonet charge'. Also few years ago my hometown's historical society had a nice exhibition of artifacts from the local batallion that was made up of people from the town. Including the surgeon's tools. Battlefield surgery is a whole nothing ballgame of 'ewww'.
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Dec 8, 2018 08:53
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B C D A Would be interesting to see more ahistorical scenarios if the AI is up to handling them. At Centreville you start seeing lots of north-south ridges as you head west towards Bull Run Mountain and Thoroughfare Pass, whereas the terrain eastward flattens out and is close enough to Washington to make it difficult for the Confederates to maintain a long term fortified presence. Marching west out of DC your two real options were the Leesburg Pike to the north or going through Fairfax Courthouse, which had two major roads west through Centreville and Chantilly.
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Dec 8, 2018 16:15
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BADC
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Dec 8, 2018 16:19
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BACD
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Dec 8, 2018 17:05
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That's 5 / 6 people in favor of the Meeting Engagement. ____ Turn 1 It is 0600 hours on July 21, 1861. East of Centreville, two brigades under Daniel Tyler's 1st Division enter the battlefield:  1st Bde, under Col. E D Keyes (2,468 men total) 1st Connecticut, with 585 men 2d Connecticut, with 552 men 3d Connecticut, with 691 men 2d Maine, with 640 men 2d Bde, under BG R C Schenck (1,849 men total) 2d NY Militia, with 641 men 1st Ohio, with 685 men 2d Ohio, with 523 men three batteries of two guns each, six guns total Here's where they are relative to the rest of the battlefield: 
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Dec 11, 2018 07:51
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Shame we don't seem to have cavalry up. Uhm, I think tentatively here we'd want to try and cover as much ground as psosible as quick as we can. Marching formation, try and get to Centreville before the Rebs do. It's a cnetral location along the roads, gives us a nice place to spread out and move quickly along the roads if we have to. Hopefully with us closer to it we can beat the Rebels there and then use it to fan out as necessary to engage? Dunno, is that how you might want to play it as a meetin gengagement? That just semes the best place to make a beeline to.
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Dec 11, 2018 09:50
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 10:58 |
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That shot I captured is less than half the map, vertically I think, so expect the next ... dozen turns or so to be nothing more than marching, with maybe an encounter against the rebels in the middle of the map, right around Blackburn's/Mitchell's Ford if we both beeline for it. I'm supposed to get cavalry next turn, but the thing about this scenario variant is that sometimes the scheduled arrivals are late, to keep things unpredictable. If I do get the cavalry as scheduled, I do plan on having them ride out ahead of the column so that I know when it's about time to deploy into line. My only direction right now is to have 1st and 2d Bde march through Centreville using the roads, then march directly south towards the Fords. It's tough to form a more concrete plan until I know where the other troops are going to show up at.
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Dec 11, 2018 10:37
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