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Turin Turambar posted:I think Duke 3d thing is being a 'historic' game, as it was important in the development of the genre. I recognize that. Object interaction, 'scripted' scenario destruction, objects that allowed you from underwater exploration to flying around, unique set pieces like being miniaturized to be able to advance in a level, original weapons like the freezer, having a 'quick melee' button, etc. Agree 100% with this. I loved Duke3D but never really found it particularly fun to play properly as you die so quickly, so used to just stick on godmode and have fun exploring the levels.
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Jun 17, 2020 09:40
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It's real hard going back to Duke after Blood. Explosions being spherical and not.. Whatever they're supposed to be in Duke, is such a joy to play with. Having a pipe bomb detonate at an enemy's feet, just to see it take zero damage feels so bad.
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Jun 17, 2020 09:58
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I rather liked Duke Nukem 3D playing it a few years ago. I guess I should give Blood another shot, then. So it doesn't have a source port? Just the DOSBox wrapper?
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Jun 17, 2020 10:20
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weed cat posted:I rather liked Duke Nukem 3D playing it a few years ago. I guess I should give Blood another shot, then. So it doesn't have a source port? Just the DOSBox wrapper? It doesn't have a source port, but it has people using known Build codebases and enough reverse-engineering to make the next best thing. You can try BloodGDX or NBlood or Raze. There's also the new engine in Fresh Supply, though it deviates from vanilla gameplay in enough places that it breaks a few things, especially in mods, so most people will prefer to go with a third-party alternative.
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Jun 17, 2020 10:23
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Weren't the Fresh Supply differences patched out pretty quickly? I was under the impression any remaining deviations were actually fixes on bugs in the original. Fresh Supply adds natural feeling mouse look and allows you to customise the Cultists deadeye aiming. I don't think I could go back to other versions even if I wanted to.
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Jun 17, 2020 10:33
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Fresh Supply is decent now. The mod Death Wish works with it too now, which is better than some of the base game episodes imo. BuildGDX is also good. Maybe it's because Fresh Supply was my first time playing Blood but I still prefer the feel of it over GDX. If it's your first time I suggest either playing on the easiest difficulty or using Fresh Supply's custom difficulty to make the cultists stupid and infrequent. They're a terribly balanced enemy. Episodes 1 and 2 are super strong and contain my favorite maps of any old school FPS.
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Jun 17, 2020 10:42
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HROT is pretty cool, running dudes down on my Jawa motorcycle never gets old. The horses are pretty weird tho.
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Jun 17, 2020 11:02
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Happy birthday Deus Ex! Yea I could take my DX bullshit to the DX thread but I like it here better. Alexander Brandon and Michael Van Den Bos are doing a remix album for the 20th anniversary which will be out tuesday. Here's a preview: https://alexanderbrandon.bandcamp.com/album/conspiravision-deus-ex-remixed Al Cu Ad Solte fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 11:17
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HROT knows exactly what its doing with its palette and lighting model, and that's always fun The sound design on the weapons, though... In any case I found my way down to where the rusted key is but I can't find a way back out.  e: Civvie's discord is saying the sounds might be bugged? KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 11:24
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Convex posted:Agree 100% with this. I loved Duke3D but never really found it particularly fun to play properly as you die so quickly, so used to just stick on godmode and have fun exploring the levels. Yeah I think that's probably the biggest issue the various Build Engine games have, you're generally too fragile, ammo scarcity is also a common issue
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Jun 17, 2020 11:29
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Restrained Crown Posse posted:Weren't the Fresh Supply differences patched out pretty quickly? I was under the impression any remaining deviations were actually fixes on bugs in the original. The collision model is the biggest difference, as in the one thing that Kaiser said in hindsight he should have at least included the original as an option because, glitchy as it is, it's a critical part of gameplay and changing it causes a lot of breakages.
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Jun 17, 2020 11:31
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Gaspy Conana posted:Fresh Supply is decent now. The mod Death Wish works with it too now, which is better than some of the base game episodes imo. Fresh Supply is automatically the best version as it includes the "Made to Order" custom difficulty setting. I like to max out the enemy count but reduce their HP slightly, and also reduce the reaction time so I don't get hitscanned to death the second I go around a corner. Makes the game so much less frustrating to play imo
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Jun 17, 2020 11:38
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Narcissus1916 posted:I think its fair to say that Duke 3d has aged as poorly as Blood has aged well I disagree with this completely and really question what I’m missing with Blood that other people see. The visuals and atmosphere are top notch but so much of its design is putting enemies in blind corners and hitscanners out of visual sight that will light you up faster than a chain gunner in Doom. Out of all the 2.5d shooters I’ve played Duke3D is one of the more consistently balanced ones from start to finish. Aside from some bad levels that get drone happy I always felt the game telegraphed its challenge well and never asked me to blindly toss grenades around a corner because 10 cultists will murder you in a second.
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Jun 17, 2020 11:49
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:Happy birthday Deus Ex!
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Jun 17, 2020 11:52
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The game gives you plenty of TNT, which you chuck around every corner you think cultists are hiding behind (all of them). Once you get used to that rhythm the game is a bit more forgiving, though the difficulty tweaks suggested by Convex are right on the money. With a lot of enemies and less aggressive hitscanners, the game is less frustrating while becoming way more chaotically fun. Game balance in the original game was definitely a bit wonk, so it's interesting that the fix for the game's frustrating gameplay is really just creating a remix of the difficulty settings that are already there, not by changing the core mechanics. e: making them all very aggressively throw full TNT bundles also makes for a very different thing. Not necessarily worse since while TNT packs enough to get you in one hit and has a large blast radius, it then becomes a game of using this barrage of TNT to clear the area of enemies. It becomes advantageous to get as mobile as possible and bounce around everywhere. Can be a lot of fun! SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 12:00
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Blood and Shadow Warrior I feel were made with save scumming in mind and my biggest point of contention is how brutal and unforgiving those two in particular are going in blind. The last time I tried to play Blood I think I got to episode 2 and reached a point where it felt like I was just slowly crawling to the finish line every level, it just killed the pacing.
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Jun 17, 2020 12:12
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https://twitter.com/TafferKing451/status/1272470964836528128 The kids aren't alright 
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Jun 17, 2020 12:18
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:https://twitter.com/TafferKing451/status/1272470964836528128 What the gently caress is this guy's deal
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Jun 17, 2020 12:33
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I think a lot of my ambivalence for Blood just comes down to personal taste. So much of Duke3D is about the player controlling the pacing and there's rarely a moment where I feel like I can't make it out alive without being conservative and careful, falling back to switch up weapons or strategies. Blood is so frenetic, the enemies so aggressive, that I feel like it's very hard to evaluate when I should press on even when it feels dire. So much about classic FPS games is the resource management and in Doom/Hexen/Duke I can safely evaluate how well I'm doing encounter to encounter. I never feel like 0 armor and half health is a death sentence but Blood it feels more binary: I either get through a room with full health or like 10 health which is no different than being death so just quick-load and now I know to lure the gargoyle away from the 10 cultists hiding in dark alcoves before rounding the corner and that's just not my playstyle.
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Jun 17, 2020 12:45
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:In any case I found my way down to where the rusted key is but I can't find a way back out. If it's the bit I'm thinking of a) You do have a flashlight b) Look behind a pile of skulls HROT is janky as all, but fun even if I relied on the shotgun almost exclusively. I burst out laughing at DEATHHORSE
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Jun 17, 2020 12:49
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Lemon-Lime posted:The Gloomwood demo was fun, but it's way too generous with ammo on normal difficulty (or at least the demo was). I had so much shotgun ammo by the time I got to the sewers that I was able to just kill all the crows.
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Jun 17, 2020 13:10
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Two Owls posted:If it's the bit I'm thinking of Ah, I'd found the skulls but couldn't see what was behind. Two Owls posted:HROT is janky as all, but fun even if I relied on the shotgun almost exclusively. I burst out laughing at DEATHHORSE Those horses are great. Especially the one that shows up right at the end, it fell in the water and got stuck bunny hopping trying to get out. KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Jun 17, 2020 |
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Jun 17, 2020 13:23
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HROT seems pretty cool, but I'll echo a point that someone else made which is that the balance feels real weird. I remember having barely enough bullets on normal to kill the first two enemies with the pistol, and being really tight on ammo up until the shotgun at which point I never needed ammo again. They're extremely stingy with bullets but you get a billion shells and the shotgun seems way better than the other guns. It's weird.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:18
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Now that I mentioned in my previous post both Duke3D and HL1, I just remembered something I liked in both. The trip mines. In fact, I wanted to officially complain (do you hear me Valve?!) of how they dropped the trip mine and satchel charges from HL1 to HL2/Alyx. It was so fun trying to do complex traps with them!
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Jun 17, 2020 14:33
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Farm Frenzy posted:good news! looks like the devs are getting deep into the forgotten weapons youtube channel Wait, so the shotgun really is intended to be a Burgess folder and not just an animation that's weird for the sake of being weird? Because that's cool and that goofy shotgun deserves to be as overused in games as the SPAS-12 is.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:47
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Turin Turambar posted:Now that I mentioned in my previous post both Duke3D and HL1, I just remembered something I liked in both. The trip mines. Have you seen the footage from Ravenholm? We missed out on an electricity trip mine chain launcher.
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Jun 17, 2020 14:54
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I've been thinking about this recently: If Blood were to get a Wolfenstein/Doom-esque modern update, what would you like to see in it? What tone/setting/style should it be? What mechanics would it be built around? Should Caleb do executions?
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Jun 17, 2020 15:21
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SkeletonHero posted:I've been thinking about this recently: If Blood were to get a Wolfenstein/Doom-esque modern update, what would you like to see in it? What tone/setting/style should it be? What mechanics would it be built around? Should Caleb do executions? If somebody wants to make a Doom 2016-alike with Blood, I'd be up for that. Set it in the 1930s, start in the Dust Bowl, fight your way to and through an art deco mega city, then chase the Big Bad into a portal that goes into surreal nightmare dreamscapes until you reach whatever's behind it all. Mechanically I'd love to see something like a more streamlined Doom 2016 - fewer types of upgrades, but keep that propulsive momentum. Just don't nerf the ammo count. Why wouldn't Caleb do executions?
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Jun 17, 2020 15:52
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SkeletonHero posted:I've been thinking about this recently: If Blood were to get a Wolfenstein/Doom-esque modern update, what would you like to see in it? What tone/setting/style should it be? What mechanics would it be built around? Should Caleb do executions?
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Jun 17, 2020 16:03
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Call me the worst because I just want a horror shooter, like Realms of the Haunting style slow paced shooter through creepy and surreal environments but I also understand this is totally antithetical to Blood which is like the Sonic the Hedgehog of 2.5d shooters.
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Jun 17, 2020 16:15
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al-azad posted:I disagree with this completely and really question what I’m missing with Blood that other people see. The visuals and atmosphere are top notch but so much of its design is putting enemies in blind corners and hitscanners out of visual sight that will light you up faster than a chain gunner in Doom. I think it has the best and most varied maps and maps are most of what I care about in those games. I also find the Pitchfork + Flare Gun + Dynamite + Shotgun super satisfying to use together. IMO the game only needed those four weapons. The enemy roster is definitely wonky though and I've only played the thing on the easiest difficulty so I have no real sense of the game's overall balance.
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Jun 17, 2020 16:17
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UNDERWATER DEATH HORSE
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Jun 17, 2020 16:17
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blood has better weapons but duke3d is much better put together in terms of progression, but that latter point isn't that hard to accomplish given the liberal use of the copy/paste tool for bosses in blood among other things shadow warrior is just the awful parts of both put together
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Jun 17, 2020 16:19
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i feel as if a modern blood reboot would need to have the tnt as an altfire to every weapon somehow, base all combat around it
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Jun 17, 2020 16:25
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Johnny Joestar posted:shadow warrior is just the awful parts of both put together with a big 'racism' cherry on top I tried playing it through VoidSW when it got a beta release recently and whilst I still think the game is fun enough, man it is insufferably racist to such an absurd extent that it's hard to believe it wasn't some Producers style tax scam
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Jun 17, 2020 16:25
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the cool posts kid posted:i feel as if a modern blood reboot would need to have the tnt as an altfire to every weapon somehow, base all combat around it nah, dedicated TNT button like the extra buttons in Doom Eternal
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Jun 17, 2020 16:26
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A dedicated grenade button is pretty standard these days
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Jun 17, 2020 16:31
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Convex posted:with a big 'racism' cherry on top Honestly I don't know what's worse, that Lo Wang as a character existed in 1997 or that Ion Storm liked him so much they hired the same white actor to play every Asian character in Daikatana and Deus Ex.
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Jun 17, 2020 16:32
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even given my already-present dislike of the build games in general there's literally nothing positive i can say about shadow warrior and i feel like some people only laud it because of the association with its siblings that have markedly better aspects to them
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Jun 17, 2020 16:34
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In my journey to actually finish a lot of these games from yesteryear my experience is that everything positive you can say is in episode 1 and you don't need to play the rest.
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Jun 17, 2020 16:40
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