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Cojawfee posted:Does Dolores' family get murdered every night? The narrative tree on the website seems to indicate that Dolores's night ends peacefully unless there is a Black Hat guest present. We've seen a peaceful night in the show. Cojawfee posted:I'm interested in seeing the part where Elsie disappears. I thought Bernard was at the HQ so I don't know how he would strangle her. Just rewatched this today. There's a scene break between the phone call and the attack. She's in the theatre copying data for an unspecified amount of time. When she hears a noise, she first says "Bernard?", implying that it's been long enough for Bernard to go to the theatre. Lycus fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Nov 24, 2016 |
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Nov 24, 2016 05:05
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Borrowed Ladder posted:How can people still flat out not believe William = MIB after MIB recognizes the greeter and mentions she's been recast?? I saw one poster say that maybe he just remembered her from a different time? What kind of horseshit nonsensical writing would that be? Hey guys let's write in some dialogue for our mysterious unnamed character about someone that only William has interacted with. Very carefully
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Nov 24, 2016 05:12
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I'm thinking that Bernard was just having a horrible imagining where he wonders if he has done something to Elsie. Not a real memory, more of a "could I have done that too?" At the same time as asking if Ford had made him hurt anybody else. He was clearly thinking about Elsie going missing.
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Nov 24, 2016 05:30
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Collateral posted:I'm thinking that Bernard was just having a horrible imagining where he wonders if he has done something to Elsie. Not a real memory, more of a "could I have done that too?" At the same time as asking if Ford had made him hurt anybody else. He was clearly thinking about Elsie going missing. I assume we'll get Elsie back and it will be left ambiguous about whether or not she's been replaced.
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Nov 24, 2016 05:51
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Why would Ford lie to Bernard about harming others right before he memory wiped him? And the line was delivered with no hesitation at all. Far more likely is Bernard had a memory of hurting someone that didn't come as a result of being ordered to do so by Ford. So either it was self directed which seems way out of character or someone else ordered him to do it. Probably Arnold since no one else introduced so far would potentially have that level of control over Bernard.
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Nov 24, 2016 05:51
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I assume we'll get Elsie back and it will be left ambiguous about whether or not she's been replaced. well it won't be ambiguous for very long, because either she'll try to ask Bernard about all the poo poo that's going on or she won't.
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Nov 24, 2016 05:52
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Quick Draw McGraw posted:You missed the possibility that Bernard acted independently to silence Elsie in order to protect Theresa, who he
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Nov 24, 2016 06:19
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Nah, I think Elise is dead. Bernard remembers killing her to show that he's affected by whatever dormant virus Arnold left in the hosts that allows them to remember violent poo poo after memory wipes. We finally got Teddy remembering poo poo this episode too, so it might be a piece of getting to full consciousness. I feel like Felix's characterization is the big problem with the butchers plot. I think he's been close to stating a moral objection to shutting Maeve down several times but hasn't done it. If he'd won Sylvester over with that argument, the pair would seem a lot less idiotic.
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Nov 24, 2016 06:19
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Cojawfee posted:If they were retrieving her, wouldn't they just pause everyone and then go get her? If there were enough guests around, it would really ruin the experience. Though I'd think the same for Dolores suddenly not being around when William gets back outside.
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Nov 24, 2016 06:22
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Borrowed Ladder posted:How can people still flat out not believe William = MIB after MIB recognizes the greeter and mentions she's been recast?? I saw one poster say that maybe he just remembered her from a different time? What kind of horseshit nonsensical writing would that be? Hey guys let's write in some dialogue for our mysterious unnamed character about someone that only William has interacted with. On the one hand, Ed Harris is Liam McPoyle from the future. On the other hand, more than one guest has run into this NPC over the last 30 years. Which sounds more plausible to you?
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Nov 24, 2016 07:21
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esperterra posted:I'm just saying that even if William is in the past (which at this point I think he may well be, though I don't think he's MiB) I think the flashes to her alone are just glitches/a visual cue that she's off in her own world/memories/talking to the voice in her head I think this much of your theory is correct, it follows the same patter every time it happens, like the last scene in The Sopranos, and you're supposed to pick up on it eventually. Most/all of the weird stuff happening is from the host's perspective. HoboWithAShotgun posted:I wouldn't be surprised if each loop takes course over the course of weeks at the least. The family might just get murdered on the first night and buried for the remainder of the loop. It sort of looks like each loop is super short because of how each episode flows, without showing the time spent inbetween each loop. This is probably the case. Borrowed Ladder posted:How can people still flat out not believe William = MIB after MIB recognizes the greeter and mentions she's been recast?? I saw one poster say that maybe he just remembered her from a different time? What kind of horseshit nonsensical writing would that be? Hey guys let's write in some dialogue for our mysterious unnamed character about someone that only William has interacted with. Because what if the Man in Black has been coming to the park for 30 years and is not face blind like most Goons?
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Nov 24, 2016 07:53
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Yeah I would have liked them to spend a fee minutes with Maeve and Felix where Felix determines she is fully concious and decides to help her based on that. Like maybe she passes a special touring test and Felix gets really excited about the first truly sentient machine that he feels obligated to protect.
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Nov 24, 2016 07:57
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He's done that though? Like he's had an argument with Sylvester about how you can't brick a sentient being, and then helped Maeve bypass Sylvester's bricking. I'm glad they haven't got stuck on trying to prove her consciousness, because she's clearly conscious. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Nov 24, 2016 |
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Nov 24, 2016 08:03
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hosts passed the turing test after the first year
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Nov 24, 2016 08:16
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A Strange Aeon posted:Why would Ford lie to Bernard about harming others right before he memory wiped him? And the line was delivered with no hesitation at all. I think Ford lies just to keep Bernard under control until the memories are erased.
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Nov 24, 2016 08:28
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Solkanar512 posted:I think Ford lies just to keep Bernard under control until the memories are erased. What would be the point of that? He can shut him down or wipe his memory at any time. He already has him under control.
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Nov 24, 2016 08:36
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MiB is a host created by Ford and based on the actual person he thinks he is, given his memories, and set loose in the park to discover Arnold's 'Maze' meta-narrative.
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Nov 24, 2016 08:41
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TremorX posted:MiB is a host created by Ford and based on the actual person he thinks he is, given his memories, and set loose in the park to discover Arnold's 'Maze' meta-narrative. Unlikely, given that a guest recognized him and thanked him for his philanthropy in the real world, to which MIB replied that he was on vacation and to knock that poo poo off.
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Nov 24, 2016 08:44
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Norns posted:What would be the point of that? He can shut him down or wipe his memory at any time. He already has him under control. I think that we can learn from Maeve's backstory that intense emotions can cause a host to become unresponsive to commands. Ford has probably went through this ordeal in the past and knows it's better to avoid pushing the hosts too hard.
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Nov 24, 2016 09:16
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My wife said that the host in dancing class who briefly wanders away and needs to be told to stay with her partner is Armistice, Hector's blonde companion. Me being faceblind, I can't tell since she's not tattooed in the dance scene, but is this the case?
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Nov 24, 2016 10:01
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Yes, that's definitely armistice.
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Nov 24, 2016 10:20
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Yes, and the woman in the lab coat that brings her back to her partner is Bernards wife. not really --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Nov 24, 2016 10:23
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Norns posted:What would be the point of that? He can shut him down or wipe his memory at any time. He already has him under control. Because Maeve still jammed a pair of scissors into her neck after he supposedly had her back under control and was about to wipe her?
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Nov 24, 2016 10:42
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A Strange Aeon posted:Why would Ford lie to Bernard about harming others right before he memory wiped him? And the line was delivered with no hesitation at all. Ford thinks he can do as he pleases with the hosts, why not lie to then? Telling the truth could get Bernard mad there Also, I dont think is possible for him not to know that hosts sometimes can remember stuff that was supposed to be erased
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Nov 24, 2016 11:53
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Elias_Maluco posted:Ford thinks he can do as he pleases with the hosts, why not lie to then? Telling the truth could get Bernard mad there He pretty much said so... when referring to hosts wandering of like Delores. Even the staff seems to be well aware that hosts do that and that they wipe memories to prevent that. If that wasn't common knowledge, why accuse Ford of tampering with the code (Reveries) and pretend like Clementine remembered her attacker somehow.
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Nov 24, 2016 12:40
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Dolores was retrieved from the present because after that is when Ford analyses her and asks when she last talked to arnold and she says 34 years ago. Then she says something in the dark about not telling him anything, so I guess the implication is Bernard went to talk to her surreptitiously OR she is talking to arnold alone AND/OR bernard and arnold are the same person. Also Dolores is spelled Dolores on the prototype sheet Teresa finds in the diagnostic center. 
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Nov 24, 2016 13:47
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Demiurge4 posted:Yeah I would have liked them to spend a fee minutes with Maeve and Felix where Felix determines she is fully concious and decides to help her based on that. Like maybe she passes a special touring test and Felix gets really excited about the first truly sentient machine that he feels obligated to protect. Is that where she tours around the facility and then Felix tests her on what she saw?
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Nov 24, 2016 13:57
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Maybe felix should just have a line like 'Maeve, I believe you to be special and i'm going to help you because of this' and dispense with the 100% threat agenda.
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Nov 24, 2016 14:18
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Demiurge4 posted:Maybe felix should just have a line like 'Maeve, I believe you to be special and i'm going to help you because of this' and dispense with the 100% threat agenda. I mean the writers could choose to explicitly exposit every bit of obvious subtext directly into the camera, but they don't do that because they aren't terrible.
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Nov 24, 2016 14:36
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Maeve explicitly says Felix ratted Sylvester out, she says that Felix is compassionate and doesn't want to needlessly kill another being. She actually never really threatened Felix, she just sorta voiced threats at Sylvester while Felix was in the room, he was always on her side anyway. We're really shown time and time again that most people (other than Logan) are prone to 'forget' that the hosts are supposedly just high-tech dolls and start treating them like humans, with Felix it was even more explicit (and justified), the moment Maeve woke up and started acting like a real person he was 100% ready to accept her as an individual worthy of being respected and protected. And also, he's infatuated with her. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Nov 24, 2016 |
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Nov 24, 2016 14:42
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Maeve explicitly says Felix ratted Sylvester out, she says that Felix is compassionate and doesn't want to needlessly kill another being. She actually never really threatened Felix, she just sorta voiced threats at Sylvester while Felix was in the room, he was always on her side anyway. But how do the bullets know to kill only the robots?
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Nov 24, 2016 14:56
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Lycus posted:The narrative tree on the website seems to indicate that Dolores's night ends peacefully unless there is a Black Hat guest present. We've seen a peaceful night in the show. How do you get to any of this poo poo on the website? I'm not good at ARGs.
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Nov 24, 2016 15:02
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The bullets are loving racists who don't accept that robots can achieve consciousness and aren't worthy of respect.
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Nov 24, 2016 15:03
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Megaspel posted:But how do the bullets know to kill only the robots? They show them photos of the world outside the park.
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Nov 24, 2016 15:05
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They administer a Voight-Kampff test.
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Nov 24, 2016 15:07
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GunnerJ posted:How do you get to any of this poo poo on the website? I'm not good at ARGs. Someone found a flowchart of Dolores' loop. 
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Nov 24, 2016 15:11
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emanresu tnuocca posted:They show them photos of the world outside the park. Nah, guests don't look like anything to them.
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Nov 24, 2016 15:19
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emanresu tnuocca posted:They show them photos of the world outside the park. I would not shoot a high speed train. I would not shoot it in the brain.
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Nov 24, 2016 15:20
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After a full re-watch, there is nothing to indicate that MiB isn't William. And there's plenty of suggestions that that IS the case. I think one of the strongest ties is that Logan and William's company is very obviously about to invest in the park and MiB says to Ford that "this place would've gone under if it wasn't for me". I'm not sure if people are just hoping that it's misdirection for a better twist (and it may be) but I didn't see a single thing that made me go "Oh wow, guess that ISN'T old William." Also, possibly proof that when Bernard is speaking to Dolores in the first few episodes that it's not actually host-Bernard: he's very obviously in the basement below the cottage (where Bernard killed Theresa) and I don't think Bernard could get down there alone since he couldn't even see the door when he and Theresa were in the cottage.
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Nov 24, 2016 15:41
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I don't have a huge stake in the two timelines thing. It seems pretty plausible but if it's not true, whatever. The most interesting criticism of it, though, is "so what?" What we're talking about is the possibility that the show is using a particular narrative framing device, that the story unfolds both in the present and through events in the past that influence the present, but not signaling this to the audience. So my question is, what is gained by doing things this way? What would be lost by having a "30 years before" (or whatever) caption for the introductory scene with William and Logan?
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Nov 24, 2016 15:49
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