|
Yeah, I won't deny that the occasional Blizzard game update would tempt me. But then I go, 'on the other hand, I have a game backlog still and I can go play a game that isn't run by Blizzard...'
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2023 06:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 19:04 |
|
|
Me, I'm also just kind of through with the MMO genre in general. My first Craft of War essay covers a lot of my feelings. I play Star Trek Online, off and on. I play The Old Republic every six months or so when they release new story content. Dragonflight was, and Dawntrailer will be, the first expansions of those two big name MMOs I've consciously skipped since I started playing them, because the preceding expansion for each so utterly disillusioned me with the story they're telling. If WoW, say, shifted to a F2P model, I'd probably be more forgiving. I hold games to a lower standard when they don't charge a subscription fee and thus remove that particular kind of brain worm I seem very susceptible to where I have a deep-seated instinct to go MUST MAXIMIZE MY MONEY'S WORTH FROM THE LIMITED TIME. It's a shame, but I'm a theoretically responsible adult now who simply can't play a game for hours on end every night anymore. Blizzard will need to pull something hella special out of their hat - like firing half the C-suite - to get me to buy The War Within, regardless of whatever nonsense the expansion actually entails. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Nov 10, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2023 15:01
|
|
|
A bit of Blizzard news I think is germane to this LP: Samwise Didier has retired from Blizzard. He was one of the chief artists for the Warcraft franchise from its inception. The pandaren are probably his best known creation for being a personal passion project of his, but almost everything this LP has ever shown has had his direct or indirect involvement in creating how it looks. Whether you like Warcraft's artistic style or not, I think we can all agree that it is distinctive, and this is the single most responsible individual for that look.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2023 00:53
|
|
|
Wow, I think he may legitimately have been the longest-working Blizzard employee. I think they might've made like, one game, tops, without him on the payroll.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2023 01:09
|
|
|
Samwise had one really, really good idea: basing the aesthetics of Warcraft off of tabletop miniatures.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2023 01:59
|
|
|
Yeah say what you will about this series but the art style is extremely iconic and memorable.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2023 03:35
|
|
|
It's also extremely readable. People joke about WoW's Pauldron Problem, but it works extremely well for the top-down perspective of RTS games (and later MMOs). I haven't played Warcraft 3 in a dog's age but I could probably name all of the units by silhouette alone, and a large part of that is because they all have very distinctive head and shoulder profiles.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2023 05:23
|
|
|
Also jumping in again to say I too will miss Sam's art. It really is iconic stuff and frankly, I like it. It's a cool combo of fantasy and 80s Rock that appears to me.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2023 07:16
|
|
|
I feel this is relevant to the thread, being an examination of Blizzards poor planning
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 06:09
|
|
|
Night Elf 6: And the River Runs Red If you take the timeline presented in these intros as fact, it seems to take only four days to cross the Great Ocean. The runner Maiev sent in NE4 was introduced in the subsequent cutscene as arriving in Moonglade 'later that evening.' Tyrande and Malfurion land on the Broken isles 'the next day.' And now we're in Lordaeron, three days after that.   This land is called Lordaeron, Maiev. It is the homeland of the Alliance that aided us at the Battle of Mount Hyjal. I was told that its kingdoms, both human and elven, were consumed by the Undead Scourge. Alas, Lordaeron. These were difficult times for a lone hermit to survive in the wild. No kidding. I was doing the lone hermit routine myself at this time over in Kalimdor. At least the coalition was on the ball about eradicating the Scourge from Kalimdor. In WoW, the largest night elf presence in the Eastern Kingdoms was in the Plaguelands. Delegations of both night elf druids and Horde shamans traveled to the Scourge-held lands of Lordaeron to try to heal the land.  I expect you both to stay focused on your task. You can settle your personal dispute after we've found my brother. Boy that's convenient. Take the voice of reason and patience out of the picture for a scene and shove two stubborn hotheads who hate each other into an unknown situation far from home chasing an enemy of unknown intent and capability.    Finally. You'd best do me justice, playwright. No promises. Don't even think about it, prisoner. You are here only by the prince's direct consent.  Ishnu-dal-dieb, Kael'thas. I am Maiev Shadowsong, and this is Tyrande Whisperwind. We are hunting a powerful demon that arrived here recently. Curious. I don't know about any demon, but something's riled the undead based at Dalaran. They've been hunting us day and night. We were about to abandon this post and seek refuge on the far side of the River Arevass. Ah, of course. Even now it's not truly my story you're interested in. At least he be in dis story at all! I think I'm calling it a blessing that I'm not in this play. I'd consider the merits of that position if I were you. Wait, we have no time for this! Perhaps once your people are safe, you will help us find the demon we seek? It would be an honor, my lady. Cheers to not being in this story at all! I'll drink to that! Hooray for being irrelevant nobodies to the primary timeline! Our prime selves enjoyed themselves instead of being consigned to the endless perdition of being a major character in Azeroth's history! gently caress it, cheers! It's time for everyone's favorite kind of mission, an escort quest! This is largely identical to Horde 2 from Reign of Chaos, you can't control Kael or the blood elves but they will automatically move up behind you and enemies will periodically spawn behind the convoy to attack.  The good news is, I have two druids of the claw with rejuvenation in this mission, and Kael has a priest in his convoy. The supply wagons can't be healed, but all the military units can and you're not on a timer.  Kael also tags along, and he's the Alliance's new hero unit for TFT, a blood mage. I'll talk about Kael as a unit in more detail later in the LP (spoilers, I'm pretty sure the next campaign after this focuses on Kael).   YARR MATEY! I'M A PRISSY ELF IN A POST-APOCALYPTIC WASTELAND AND I'M BURYING ME TREASURE LIKE A PIRATE! There's a random dreadlord guarding the first buried treasure. Maiev takes half his health off in a single shadow strike.  Random clumps of ghouls are no threat when they pop up behind the convoy like this. One of Kael's spells is one that WoW vets will probably recognize, flamestrike, which deals area damage and continues to burn.  I hire an Amani priest to help the elves. He's a useful support unit with healing and inner fire.  Why are you glaring at me, Warden? There were Amani helping you and your people. We can see it now. And then my idiot successors allied with the Horde. I had nothing to do with the strike on Zul'Aman. We had bigger things to worry about than the trolls. Feh. Ironic for us both. The last few decades of Azeroth's history have not been kind to anyone, I'll give you that.  You take candle! You two secure those candles! You, covering fire! Protect the candles! Open fire! How'd you end up here, good kobold? An adventurer was paid three silver and sixty eight copper plus a pair of pants to kill me, two fellow taskmasters, six workers, and six prospectors. The gig economy for killers for hire sucks. There's a crate hiding an orb of fire on the slope here. I blink Maiev to it so she can pass it over to Tyrande.  It's the pants thing that really offended me, lady Aegwynn. What a cruel and absurd world we lived in that men and women can be enticed to murder other sentient creatures for the promise of a pair of magic pants.  The other route is safer, but it will take us longer to cross the river. Both routes will be dangerous nevertheless. Let us choose quickly and be on our way.Well, this is new! Branching paths in a mission.  I opt for the longer road.  Think about it. One day you're just minding your own business doing honest work in the mines to provide for your family, then suddenly a testosterone-poisoned man calling himself XXXSephiroth420XXX runs in, sets the secretary on fire as she's refilling the coffee pot, dismembers the union rep as he bawls his eyes out realizing he's never going to see his kids again, and pulls your intestines out through your eye sockets in your final seconds of life. The last thing you hear on the mortal plane is 'How many of these loving things do I have to kill before the quest item finally drops?' Hey, Grom! Got any beer to share? LOTS! CHUG CHUG CHUG!  Is... is that what I was doing every time my kin and I hired adventurers... Something doesn't feel right. Yes. Perhaps we should keep the caravan moving? Ysera, according to the bronzes I've met in Revendreth, I was murdered in countless timelines over and over again until one of my children old enough to reach the drake stage offered themselves in submission as a mount as they collapsed in complete and utter despair. Poor Al'ar.  Surprise, it's an ambush with a few waves of mobs.  We've run out of time! The caravan will not survive another assault! Kael, get your caravan moving across the river! I will stay behind and hold the bridge! That's very noble of you, Priestess, but you're no match for a force that vast! The goddess is my shield, warden. Elune will grant me strength!   Er, why didn't they just blow the bridge? They had more than enough magic, plus the two giants. ...gently caress.  We must hurry to save her! That current will take her right into the heart of the undead lands! No, Kael. Tyrande is a soldier, she knew the risks she took. We have a greater mission to accomplish now, and time grows short. Your people are now safe. You will uphold your end of the bargain and help me hunt the demon I seek.Open conflict between the night elves successfully forced.  Until next time. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Nov 12, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 15:13
|
|
|
Good Night, Sweet Prince Today's subject, Kael'thas Sunstrider.  For a reasonably important figure in the story of Warcraft, Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider had a surprisingly ordinary early life. He is the only child of King Anasterian Sunstrider (Kael's mother is completely unknown, he presumably has one but the existence of such an individual has never even been officially referenced), and grew up in Quel'thalas receiving a first rate education in both Quel'thalas and Dalaran as befits the man expected to one day inherit the throne of Quel'thalas. Kael excelled in his studies, particularly of magic, and enjoyed music as a hobby - he was the patron of Lirath Windrunner, the little brother to the more famous sisters of that family, and was known as a patron of the arts in general. The only source of trouble in Kael's life prior to the Horde invasion was a notable lack of success in love. Kael had attempted to court Sylvanas Windrunner (who rejected him because she was already in love with Nathanos Morris) and the... checks notes on the timeline and ages involved... teenage Jaina Proudmoore, who rejected him for Arthas. Prior to the Third War, Kael's only involvement in Warcraft's story was that he was part of the Council of Six that governed the Kirin Tor in Dalaran, expected to be a temporary appointment to get the high elf prince experience in leadership and rule in preparation for the day he would one day inherit his father's throne. Kael commanded the elven contingent of Dalaran's armies during the Second War, and afterwards decided that even if Quel'thalas had left the Alliance, Dalaran was too important a symbol and ally to simply abandon. Kael'thas would remain in Dalaran as a member of the Council of Six until Quel'thalas fell to the Scourge during the Third War.  Kael'thas Sunstrider did not return in glory to a people overjoyed to see their prince return. Kael had been absent from Quel'thalas during the Scourge invasion, leading many of the elf survivors to see the prince as having abandoned them all for the sake of the humans who had, in their eyes, failed Quel'thalas during the Second War. The same critics noted with grim amusement that the timing of Kael's flight from Dalaran likewise spared his life from Dalaran's ensuing destruction by the Burning Legion. Kael'thas, many of the surviving high elves thought, was an opportunistic coward unworthy of inheriting his father's throne. As it happened, Kael agreed with these critics. He had not intended to abandon anyone, but the facts were undeniable. Though Kael had the right to take his father's crown and title as King of Quel'thalas, Kael refused. He would remain simply Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider until the time came when he earned the right to be called King. As fate would have it, that time would never come and the events of Warcraft 3 left him in Outland, desperately seeking a solution to the problems facing his people while he left regents behind to rule Quel'thalas in his stead. The picture that Warcraft's writers have painted of Kael'thas prior to Warcraft 3 is, all told, a decent man who was simply overwhelmed by the apocalyptic crisis that befell Azeroth. Kael was a talented mage, but not extraordinary. He was a decent enough fighter and military commander, but did not excel. He strove to be a diplomat for some unpopular causes, but lacked the charisma and statesmanship to carry the day. He was a patron of the arts, a strong proponent of closer ties between Quel'thalas and other nations, and did not look down on other races. Kael'thas, in the aggregate, seems to have not been a great man. He was simply a good man, at a time when that wasn't good enough.  Ask a fan what WC3 character got done the dirtiest in WoW, and Kael'thas is usually at or near the top of the list alongside the likes of Jaina. Kael was relegated to a C-tier villain in WoW's first expansion, The Burning Crusade, where he was simply a crazed lackey of Illidan, who himself wasn't even the ultimate threat of the expansion. Kael and his forces gleefully committed war crimes by the truckload, notably inventing the mana bombs that are Warcraft's analogue to nuclear weapons with their magical radiation they leave behind and using them on various innocents in Outland, then killing pretty much anybody he felt like to rip the mana from their bodies. Players killed him, in what was admittedly a very cool boss fight, and then Kael was ingloriously brought back in the final story patch to be a five-man dungeon boss (he was revived by a Legion priestess) where he would become a meme forever with his opening line "Tempest Keep was merely a setback!" And yet... while I deplore this use of Kael, in light of what writers established about his character, I do feel that the canon explanation for Kael's descent does make an unfortunate kind of sense: Kael was simply an average and decent man caught up in events beyond his ken, and stress, survivor's guilt, weight of expectations, and what has never been officially called post-traumatic stress disorder drove him insane. Fel magic corroding his mind did not help, but only greased the slope instead of shoving him down that path. Roughly nobody in-setting likes Kael'thas or remembers him fondly, but the player base is quite different, and so Blizzard's been slowly recontextualizing Kael's descent into madness and evil as a man simply in way, way over his head. Early WoW lore hyped up Kael as some grand and monstrous traitor and madman, but over the last few expansions the tenor has started to change in favor of viewing Kael'thas instead as a more tragic figure, a man who made a lot of mistakes but was genuinely trying in his own mind to do what was best for his people, and a man victimized and manipulated by far more powerful and cunning villains.  This reevaluation came to a head in one of the few subplots in Shadowlands that most people thought went over pretty well. Kael'thas, Shadowlands revealed, was imprisoned in Revendreth for his crimes in life. Despite the best efforts of Sire Denathrius to drive Kael further insane as a giant anima battery, the player characters ultimately rescued Kael and brought him to the personal attention of the good guy Venthyr. Kael would afterwards become a recurring ally to the players as one of the chief representatives of the Venthyr covenant for the rest of the expansion, where he was framed as a broken man striving for redemption. In particular, Kael's story with the Venthyr established that the driving force behind Kael's madness in life, and behind his atonement in death, was his guilt and trauma over the fall of Quel'thalas and death of his father - things Kael had not been present for, because he had been in Dalaran believing that maintaining the elves' ties to the Alliance was that important. Kael, Shadowlands asserted, had been consumed by the thought that if he'd only been at Quel'thalas, if he'd only had more power, he could have stopped Arthas and saved his people and his father. By the end of the expansion, Kael had finally accepted that none of that tragedy was on him, and begun to truly heal and move on. Whether this is a satisfying story or conclusion, I leave as an exercise for the reader, but hey. At least Blizzard seems to have finally caught on that people didn't like how they used a character, and used the Shadowlands to end the character's story to date on a more hopeful note. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Nov 12, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 15:14
|
|
|
MERELY A SETBACK
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 15:46
|
|
|
Burning Crusade Kael is definitely one of the most extreme cases of character assassination in this franchise, but also Kael is such a nothing character in wc3 I can understand why they did it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 15:52
|
|
|
I suppose "straight through the middle of" does qualify as "perilously close".
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 15:54
|
|
|
Nostalgamus posted:I suppose "straight through the middle of" does qualify as "perilously close". Fun fact: the third and final Supply Cache for the Optional Quest in this mission is just off the path leading into the Undead Bastion.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 16:08
|
|
|
sirtommygunn posted:Burning Crusade Kael is definitely one of the most extreme cases of character assassination in this franchise, but also Kael is such a nothing character in wc3 I can understand why they did it. He was the first moment of "Wait, why are we fighting?" in my little teenage mind. He was a decent guy, and the gap between TFT and BC didn't really seem to explain what happened other than "He's crazy now."
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 16:14
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:
drat, Cyth, it's almost like you have opinions on player characters who mangle dozens of sentients simply for having the wrong shape or colour without being attacked first or attempting any sort of negotiation.  Cythereal posted:Ask a fan what WC3 character got done the dirtiest in WoW, and Kael'thas is usually at or near the top of the list alongside the likes of Jaina. Honestly, even just in TFT it feels like he gets a very raw deal. But then again, in hindsight, I feel like both WC3 and TFT insisted on some very mean things aimed at the characters that fundamentally I liked the most and felt were the most reasonable.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 16:24
|
|
|
The intermission preceding the previous mission uses the Lordaeron Summer tileset, an oddity given that it takes place in Kalimdor, which is normally represented by the Barrens and Ashenvale tileset(and the campaign's singular appearance of the otherwise skirmish exclusive Felwood tileset). This leads me to believe that the terrain for that intermission was originally intended for a cinematic taking place in the Plaguelands here. Reforged didn't change this even though swapping tilesets is something they can evidently do with how The Druids Arise from the base game was somewhat bewilderingly changed from Ashenvale to Lordaeron Winter. Another curious thing here is that this is the only official Blizzard map that I can think of where hills are created by raising or lowering terrain directly rather than using cliff layers like basically everywhere else. There's still some cliffs here and in one case, both styles are used on top of each other to create one extra tall hillside.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 16:47
|
|
|
It's really funny seeing the night elves and blood elves work together so easily considering the history between these two people before and after WC3.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 17:06
|
|
|
Rhonne posted:It's really funny seeing the night elves and blood elves work together so easily considering the history between these two people before and after WC3. This was before Blizzard put them on opposite teams, so there's no need for them to be itching to commit genocidal violence against each other. The blood elves will get a proper lore post later.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 17:08
|
|
|
Does WoW have more different kinds of elves or more different kinds of trolls?
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 17:10
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:Does WoW have more different kinds of elves or more different kinds of trolls? Trolls by technicality, as all Elves are Trolls as well. It you only count things that are named "x" troll or y "elf" Trolls win. If you include Naga and other such mutations of Elves as Elves, then Elves themselves are all mutations of Trolls originally and Trolls still win. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Nov 12, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 17:17
|
|
|
That's a really good evaluation of Kael, I feel, and without going into too much detail I think the course of events during the Alliance campaign for TFT bears it out. (As clearly as I can remember them, anyway.) He always felt in over his head with few or no good choices. I wasn't surprised when I heard he'd become a boss in WoW, especially given the hinted-at fel power nibbling at his mental stability and the events that will lead up to that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 17:19
|
|
|
On one hand Kael is a tragic figure who got dealt a bad hand but on the other hand he is a moron who makes terrible and boneheaded decisions. I'm not sure I agree that it isn't suitable that Kael is a complete raving lunatic in Outland because that's a very likely outcome after being such an utter dumbass.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 17:22
|
|
|
For what it's worth, Kael'thas in Shadowlands has his "sin" (as defined/determined by the Venthyr) be Pride. Specifically that he considered himself so important that he believed he would have made a difference in scenarios he could not, and used that as justification to harm others later in life. Believing he was doing what was best for his people, but only satisfying his own need to be better.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 17:24
|
|
|
Asehujiko posted:The Druids Arise from the base game was somewhat bewilderingly changed from Ashenvale to Lordaeron Winter. There is actually reasoning for this. That mission is stated to take place in Winterspring, which is in fact a full winterscape environment. If anything, they didn't make it snowy enough, if they were gonna change the tileset to fit that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 17:26
|
|
|
Poil posted:On one hand Kael is a tragic figure who got dealt a bad hand but on the other hand he is a moron who makes terrible and boneheaded decisions. From just this level the boneheaded decision seems to have been "Ask The Night Elves For Help". It's not really his fault the wrong crazy broad got dunked into a river because of a poorly built bridge.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 17:28
|
|
|
It's a shame that, isolated in their forest for ten thousand years, the night elves didn't keep up with modern elven doctrine for defending river crossings from undead
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 17:45
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:survivor's guild typo also: Kith posted:Which is why I can absolutely see why people would think that Maiev needs some loving chill: that single-minded determination never leads to anything good for her or those around her. Kith fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Nov 12, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 17:45
|
|
|
Such a nice young fellow! Very helpful. I surely hope he stays that way, and don't get derail midway through.Cythereal posted:If you take the timeline presented in these intros as fact, it seems to take only four days to cross the Great Ocean. The runner Maiev sent in NE4 was introduced in the subsequent cutscene as arriving in Moonglade 'later that evening.' Tyrande and Malfurion land on the Broken isles 'the next day.' And now we're in Lordaeron, three days after that. Cythereal posted:
Cythereal posted:Ask a fan what WC3 character got done the dirtiest in WoW, and Kael'thas is usually at or near the top of the list alongside the likes of Jaina.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 18:07
|
|
|
Couldn't you moonfall on the other side of the bridge so you don't follow it when it collap- oh never mind.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 18:44
|
|
|
Feldegast42 posted:Couldn't you moonfall on the other side of the bridge so you don't follow it when it collap- oh never mind. This is a mission starring elves and more elves. Horrible decisions and a lack of survival instinct is a given.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 18:54
|
|
|
My personal thoughts about Kael'thas is that while yes I can see him going evil in WOW considering what happened to him in WC3 I hate the way they went about it. Dude was just a minion to a bigger bad when he really should have been doing his own thing. Like for a person who biggest sin is pride dude is remarkably willing to be anybody bitch boy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 19:00
|
|
|
Chainrider37 posted:My personal thoughts about Kael'thas is that while yes I can see him going evil in WOW considering what happened to him in WC3 I hate the way they went about it. Dude was just a minion to a bigger bad when he really should have been doing his own thing. Like for a person who biggest sin is pride dude is remarkably willing to be anybody bitch boy. they eventually retcon matters such that everything he did in WoW WAS his doing his own thing, as Illidan was spending his time brooding and breeding some weird new type of dragon. exclusively. which raises a number of questions like "was stealing a bunch of spaceships ever going to lead anywhere, orrrrr"
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 19:44
|
|
|
How much of what he does IS "his own thing"?
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 19:55
|
|
|
I am just sad you didn't run with the Taskmaster but and make the Kobold Greg Davis
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 20:27
|
|
|
Hunh, I thought the concept of Blood Elves was thought up after the release of TFT.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 21:39
|
|
|
Edgelord elves
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 21:41
|
|
|
bunnyofdoom posted:I am just sad you didn't run with the Taskmaster but and make the Kobold Greg Davis I don't know what this means. Tendales posted:Hunh, I thought the concept of Blood Elves was thought up after the release of TFT. I've yet to actually play the blood elf campaign that I'm assuming is coming, but at least from this first impression I get the feeling that WoW changed them pretty substantially.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 21:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 19:04 |
|
|
Cythereal posted:I don't know what this means. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Nov 12, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2023 21:53
|
|
