quakster posted:

I do not understand the meaning of "sensible and balanced" in this context.

SR1 was what it was because the genres (crime, sandbox) were popular and the people behind the game wanted to make one. SR2 was the improved sequel, SR3 and SR4 try new things, for better or for worse. You expected them to make the same game again, but with different art assets/cutscenes? The games definitely could be better but the marketing is pretty accurate.

Himuro posted:

I don't know why people seem to think I expected the same thing when I specifically said I didn't buy it around release because of that. I expected something different, and I was open-minded enough to give it a shot because I expected to enjoy it since I've enjoyed the rest of the series immensely. But I'm simply not enjoying it. I have no idea where you guys got the idea that I expected the same Saints Row when you're fighting aliens and flying and shooting fireballs and poo poo. I have said nothing of marketing.

circ dick soleil posted:

SR4 added a lot of really obvious filler stuff for a few extra minutes of cheap gameplay. By the end it got fairly repetitive.

Himuro posted:

What about Fun though?

circ dick soleil posted:

SR4 added a lot of really obvious filler stuff for a few extra minutes of cheap gameplay. By the end it got fairly repetitive.

ImpAtom posted:

Oh, unarguably, but it also cut out a lot of really boring filler too. I think some of the repetitiveness of the game boils down to the fact that it's much easier to get from place to place so there's less downtime between overly-similar activities. I found SR3 to feel more same-y than SR4 did, although SR4 runs into the problem of recycling a lot from SR3.

Coolguye posted:

You are clearly not being that open minded when you complain about the superfluousness of powers in the first bullet point you make (since powers don't exist outside the simulation, and most of the story takes place outside the simulation), and then complain about how powers make the game too easy in the second bullet point. Which is it? Either they have an effect on the game, or they do not. You come off as someone looking for something to complain about. I certainly don't want to engage you on that since it's clearly a dead-end, and it seems other people aren't that keen on it either. You then asserted that 1-3 are 'grounded', which is objectively not true in SR3 but whatever, if that's what you were looking for then it's a total 'well duh' moment when you say the writing of a game that self-describes as "The American Fever Dream" isn't to your tastes. Which again doesn't mean the game sucks, it means it's not to your tastes. You then said the mission variety is awful, which is also objectively not true; the side games and mechanics they explore in the loyalty and story missions is a lot better than anything in SR3. Then you go into this thing about 'I don't use hate often but I sure hate this lovely game'.

Well okay, if you don't like it that's fine, but you're not being reasonable about any of this so yeah don't be too surprised if someone calls you out on that.

Himuro posted:

a lot of the downtime many people say that SR4 cuts on (driving for instance) are things I love in open-world games. One persons downtime is another persons fun, I guess.

ImpAtom posted:

You can still drive though. If your answer is "well, I don't drive because the superpowers are faster and more effective," that kinda highlights a problem with the driving that you're choosing the fast way over the fun way.

Himuro posted:

But this problem only comes from the inclusion of powers. Plus, driving is gimped. There's not even cruise control. So the game clearly has a preferential mode of transport while playing.

Himuro posted:

I'm sorry so say this. I haven't read the thread yet. I neglected to buy SRIV at launch because I just had a bad feeling about it, and my gut told me I'd be disappointed. I used to have an SR gang tang. I used to post in the SR2/3 thread daily. It's my favorite series of the last generation, and posting with you guys was amazing. I've played and beaten 1-3 multiple times, and I'm currently going through IV now. Unfortunately, my gut was right; the game loving sucks.

- The game isn't a sandbox. IV gives a lot of options by way of guns and powers, but most story missions take place in contained areas where you can't even use your leveled up Boss. In one mission, I was forced to use one gun the entire mission. It was tedious as hell. What happened to the freedom that made Saints Row famous? The game is barely a sandbox. because your toys become virtually useless when you need them most. Either you're being sent into some dumb rear end beat em up tribute to Streets of Rage, or you're restricted to using a mech. The series makes no pretenses hiding that it's not a sandbox anymore, and all this coming from the franchise that made a trailer lambasting Rockstar for making GTAIV content barren. Most story missions don't EXIST within the Steelport simulation. They exist either in a side activity padded filler mission, or outside the simulation where you lose the aforementioned powers. It makes one question what the point of the simulation is beyond pure novelty, and in open-world games, the world should not come off as novelty. SRIV might as well have levels instead of being open-world, because for the most of its story's duration, that's certainly what most of its content encompasses.

By my own observation, SRIV isn't for people who enjoy sandboxes or open-world games.

- The powers ruin the game by being too powerful. But more than that, they ruin any sense of exploration. Saints Row games prided themselves on the random and hilarious doozy of encountering some crazy nudist running out with his or hers private parts flapping in the wind, or some dork in a hot dog costume, or people doing yoga, or a barber shop quartet doing their thing before you viciously murder them by throwing them off a bajillion foot tall building. Beyond the excuse to kill and brutalize random people in a billion ways, Saints Row 2 did a lot to make Stilwater a believable place, full of life, with hidden secrets worth investigating and a world worth getting involved in because any random assortment of random events would happen when you least expected it - a gang war on your turf, a call for backup because your crew needs help during a gang invasion. Not Saints Row IV. We already knew that Steelport sucked and was lacking detail because of The Third, but IV makes it even worse. WHen you can fly through the city as blazing fast speeds, there's little reason to stop and smell the roses. Due to this, the game has a very point A to point B feel. Sure, you can go off and grab some clusters, but that feeling of randomness and delight that gave the world legitimacey is absent.

- The writing is awful. Saints Row 1-3 were grounded, yet silly games with a lighthearted bent. Their characterizations, themes, and stories ambitious for a crime sandbox game, a genre often cratered with cliches. But these games gave you characters to care about and laugh at (sample: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwRz41qyBfQ. They were silly and the knew it. But Saints Row IV's humor and writing are mostly leaning towards the pop culture/past references bent. In one mission, you're sent inside an arcade game that's a tribute to Streets of Rage. It has no meaning nor merit. In The Third, when you hack into the vr kit to get Matt, you do so because he's an elite hacker and it's the only place you can get to him. Despite being unrealistic, it made sense within the world the came was a part of: one with luchadores with missiles and giant floating battleships.

But SRIV is like Family Guy: The Game or something. The bulk of its content spends all of its time going,"remember the time when?" and making random pop culture references rather than standing on its own while putting all of this under the facade of being a "parody" at the expense of everything else. But rather than saying anything truly meaningful about what it's parodying, much like modern parody movies such as Date Movie and Disaster Movie, it's merely an endless stream of pop culture/gaming/remember when?!?!??! references to mask its creative bankruptcy. Haha, Saints of Rage! Haha, get it? They're doing a tribute to Streets of Rage! I get that reference!!! Not that I'm not down with pop culture references and all the other stuff, because pop culture references are a thing in Saints Row, especially The Third - which I love - but Jesus Christ use a goddamn filter. It's a personal jump the shark moment.

- The mission variety is awful. Most side missions reuse the same goals. Carjack the data. Clear the sin troops. Race through the system. Win zin's favorite game show. Clear the zin troops. It's repetitive and NOT fun.

- Use of side activities for story missions, also seen in The Third.

I can go on. I don't use the word hate very often. But I hate Saints Row IV. It has undone every last bit of every single thing I loved about the franchise. From its charming cast of characters and writing without taking itself seriously, to the open-ended gameplay that prized itself on its ability to allow the player their own methodology and freedom, the customization that extended that. I'm still going through IV, but it's so loving boring to play that it's taking a while.

It's funny how GTA and SR have flipped positions in the past year. GTAV was great despite its flaws, and a beautiful tribute and spiritual successor to the series' most celebrated past game entry. SRIV shoves and crams as many Saints Row nods as possible without any sense of gravitas or weight except for sheer randomness, and insults the series' memory instead of giving a worthy tribute or spiritual successor.

Saints Row IV loving sucks, and now we're going to be fighting Satan. It doesn't even star a custom made character you hand crafted yourself. Is there any point to this series being called Saints Row anymore at all?

quakster posted:

I recommend checking out some Youtubes if a game is already released, makes disappointments pretty unlikely. It all comes down to personal taste.

Himuro posted:

As for your other statement, most missions still exist outside the sandbox. I'm shotgunning the story missions one after another because the side quests are awful (haven't done any loyalty quests yet, to be fair, but my expectations aren't exactly high) and the last 4 out of 5 story missions the sandbox was not used in favor of linear unique set pieces.

Himuro posted:

Guys tell me if circ dick soleil is just really sarcastic. I've been following his posts for one page and I still can't tell whose side he's on!

Himuro posted:

But this problem only comes from the inclusion of powers. Plus, driving is gimped. There's not even cruise control. So the game clearly has a preferential mode of transport while playing.

Tiggum posted:

• Do the loyalty quests, they're the best part of the game.

ImpAtom posted:

But that's the thing. It's a "problem" because powers are more effective, faster, and have no downsides compared to driving. The reason they are a problem is because they accentuate that open-world sandbox driving is largely an artificial construct designed to increase playtime without any serious meaningful player input.

This is part of why I wouldn't want to go back to now having superpowers. None of the Saint's Row games (by and large) have really made driving a core distinct mechanic which adds to the game's value outside of a few dedication missions. It makes it a waste of time because it is always less effective and less interesting than just going right to the spot.And I mean, SR isn't alone there. How many people who played GTAIV used Taxis for everything because being able to pay a small amount of money to instantly teleport to your location is so time-saving.

It'd be better if they could craft open-worlds that are worth not skipping over but I can't really think of many open world games that have done that. It just stands out more when you actually have options, which is pretty ironic for a sandbox game.

Coolguye posted:

In the intro of the game, you literally throw Shaundi from a freefall, jump through an entire passenger jet, and catch her again. Then you dodge shipping containers and cars on your way down, Because Reasons. That's just in the first 10 minutes.

No, SR3 was not even remotely grounded in any reality I live in. SR2 kinda was, as cartoonishly evil as the Boss gets during the Brotherhood missions and how much the Ronin missions come off as a modern adaptation of a Sengoku era movie. But SR3 gleefully threw 'groundedness' out the window in favor of Fun. SR4 simply built a Fun Rocket and blasted off into Outer Fun Space.

Zeth posted:

I actually like driving in SRTT/SR4, so I did a lot of it. I usually hate driving in games, but I didn't here.

(i want all game vehicles to have a powerslide button. I'm looking at you, Assassin's Creed 3 horse.)

ImpAtom posted:

But that's the thing. It's a "problem" because powers are more effective, faster, and have no downsides compared to driving. The reason they are a problem is because they accentuate that open-world sandbox driving is largely an artificial construct designed to increase playtime without any serious meaningful player input.

This is part of why I wouldn't want to go back to now having superpowers. None of the Saint's Row games (by and large) have really made driving a core distinct mechanic which adds to the game's value outside of a few dedication missions. It makes it a waste of time because it is always less effective and less interesting than just going right to the spot.And I mean, SR isn't alone there. How many people who played GTAIV used Taxis for everything because being able to pay a small amount of money to instantly teleport to your location is so time-saving.

It'd be better if they could craft open-worlds that are worth not skipping over but I can't really think of many open world games that have done that. It just stands out more when you actually have options, which is pretty ironic for a sandbox game.

circ dick soleil posted:

I never used the taxis in GTA IV and V because it kind of defeats the purpose of having an open world sandbox. It helps if you know where all the cool jumps are along the way.

Blazing Ownager posted:

There will always be people who hate Army of Darkness because it's not a horror movie, like Evil Dead. And others vice versa. Then those that like them all.

It's almost a good direct comparison, really.

Mostly serious horror movie / gang game -> horror comedy / gang comedy sanbox -> outright action/comedy / outright action/comedy.

Himuro posted:

Well, in gtav, I use driving to go everywhere because I'm always having so much fun with it exploring and finding places to gently caress around. I'll even ditch my vechile and just tail it on foot, exploring the hills. I guess I'm just that type of player. I'm the type who enjoys stopping to enjoy the sights of the game world and taking it all in, and cars allow me to do that. I will concede that I used taxi's all the time in IV but that was mostly because driving in it wasn't fun to me. I also found plenty of fun driving in past SR games: spider bikes, driving vehicles at full speed into gas stations and flying a billion feet into the air...I guess this is more of that divide. I know a lot of people who don't like exploration in open world games love SRIV because they just don't have to deal with the things they hate about the genre, but those things are things I legitimately enjoy, so it's a pretty cute conundrum.

Zeth posted:

I don't think he's being serious, you REALLY don't need a video to collect all the clusters, just way too much free time

Himuro posted:

You're basically telling me that because I don't like the tone and direction of the series that I don't have a right to complain because, well, that's how they advertised IV. Which is bullshit. Your logic makes no sense.

Himuro posted:

I'm sorry so say this... Unfortunately, my gut was right; the game loving sucks.

Himuro posted:

I've played and beaten 1-3 multiple times, and I'm currently going through IV now. Unfortunately, my gut was right; the game loving sucks.

Himuro posted:

I realize it probably wasn't the best place to write it, but I just had to get it off my chest. I understand if you disagree.

Pyroxene Stigma posted:

gently caress. Off.

Bobby Deluxe posted:

You didn't come in saying "I didn't enjoy this," you came into a thread full of people who are enjoying the game saying "sorry to break it to you all but this game is poo poo."

e: literally, this is what your opening paragraph boils down to:


The difference between the two statements explains why people received your post so badly.

Pyroxene Stigma posted:

Place your lips firmly upon my throbbing phallus. You were the worst aspect of this thread when SR3 came out, and you haven't improved. gently caress. Off.

Narcissus1916 posted:

Himuro, did you enjoy Saints Row 3?

Because Saints Row 2 and 4 are radically different games, but they both do what they're trying to do VERY well. Stillwater really was a much more realized place, and I understand why someone misses that side of the franchise.

But I am literally confused at how someone could enjoy Saints Row 3. The sandbox stuff is pure grind it out gameplay, with most activities just returning from SR2 but somehow even more buggy. The storyline lacks even the most basic of coherence - check out Gat dying for no reason whatsoever, with zero followup. Check out the complete lack of character arcs, or any sense of structure whatsoever. Check out the combat system that is way, way too reliant on recharging health.

I still found nuggets of fun in Saints Row 3, but I had to go digging.

Narcissus1916 posted:

Himuro, did you enjoy Saints Row 3?

Because Saints Row 2 and 4 are radically different games, but they both do what they're trying to do VERY well. Stillwater really was a much more realized place, and I understand why someone misses that side of the franchise.

But I am literally confused at how someone could enjoy Saints Row 3. The sandbox stuff is pure grind it out gameplay, with most activities just returning from SR2 but somehow even more buggy. The storyline lacks even the most basic of coherence - check out Gat dying for no reason whatsoever, with zero followup. Check out the complete lack of character arcs, or any sense of structure whatsoever. Check out the combat system that is way, way too reliant on recharging health.

I still found nuggets of fun in Saints Row 3, but I had to go digging.

Himuro posted:

Himuro posted:

You are the president for all of five minutes, making the entire presidential marketing materials a waste and a complete irrelevance to the plot.

Oxxidation posted:

I liked you better when you weren't posting.

Coolguye posted:

SR4 simply built a Fun Rocket and blasted off into Outer Fun Space.

Himuro posted:

I'll go back to doing just that, don't worry.