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AJ_Impy posted:
 Steppes and Republics But wouldn't that make the senators easier to poison, yet I don't think assassins would bother to poison us at all...........
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Mar 1, 2014 04:30
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Blackunknown posted:
 I'm absolutely fine with this. I'm really tired of having to bring a spare tunic to the Senate in case a Senator loses his dignity all over my desk. I'm not naming names. No, Senator Scruffles, it wasn't you, of course. You're a good Senator. Yes you are. Here, have a kipper.
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Mar 1, 2014 04:38
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PART FOURTEEN: Janus (1212-1231) To the Senate— I'm so happy! I have to admit, I wasn't sure if all you Old Byzantines and New Romans could work together, but here we are! A whole slate of useful legislation that can guide the empire for years to come! Unfortunately, right now Venice is a bit beyond what we can plausibly claim is ours, since in these barbarous times we still need to have really good reasons to go to war, rather than everyone just falling over themselves to swear fealty to Rome. So we'll need to work our way up the Adriatic until we can get the ball rolling on that.  But the Seljuks are busy fighting the Shia Caliphate in some stupid war over Petra, so we can get right to reclaiming central Anatolia! Odd that we're only allowed to claim it bit by bit when it's clearly all ours by right, but what can you do? When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. When life gives you a plausible casus belli to reclaim the theme of Paphlagonia... well, you know!  To the Black Chamber— As suspected, Old Roman and New Byzantine political differences will cancel one another out in favor of a combined program agreeable to us; continued centralization of administration at the expense of the nobility, aggressive expansion, and more sophisticated military organization. The two faces of Janus can be induced to gaze in the same direction. We could have claimed more Turkish territory, but the Senate's insistence on prioritizing Anatolia (and Antioch) ties our hands.  In general, though, arrangement very favorable. Agents advised to keep an eye on parties out of favor, however. Not Guiding Light, True Religion's Advocates, etc.— they are useful focal points for malcontents to gather. Rather, the Milvians— the Church represents only viable alternative power structure to imperial administration— and the Komnenians. The Komnenians are loyal to the House of Komnenos above all else. This is different from being loyal to the person of the Empress. Remember what happened to Iouliana the Great. To the Senate— Hi! The Varangian Guard's been ordered into action! I support the troops, of course, but some of them aren't super thrilled about going East? Not really sure why, since the Caliph's already helpfully pre-killed the Seljuks for us. What a cool guy! Anyway, I've killed 'em. Well, ordered them killed. It'd be gross if I did that stuff myself, right? We're civilized people who don't just wave around axes in Constantinople and expect to get away with it, y'know? I'd like to think those Varangians who just got beheaded realized that. I read somewhere that your head stays alive for a little bit after it gets cut off— you can still blink and see and think before you bleed out. Isn't that interesting? To the Black Chamber— Don't let the Varangians far enough off the leash for this to happen again. Mean it.  To the Senate— I've just gotten a letter from General Leontios! It is lovely in the holy land, although of course operating so far away from the empire is taking its toll. Still, we can't win this war unless we find some Seljuks the Egyptians haven't already beaten and beat them ourselves! Hopefully, this won't be the last time our troops swing by Jerusalem. If you know what I mean, ha ha!  To the Senate— 1215's shaping up to be a pretty good year! We've found the remnants of the Seljuk army! Here's what the battle would have looked like! (Painting not to scale)  Still, we've heard some rumors about a new Khan running around the far east. Whatever! I mean, we pretty much eat Tengri horse archers for lunch at this point. I wonder how the Khan of Crimea's doing? Besides "not ruling Crimea", anyway. Let's just file this under "who cares" for now. To the Black Chamber— Rumors we've seen come down the Silk Road were all true. China in flames. Asia in chaos. War coming west. Initial projections indicate Seljuks will take the brunt of any Mongol advance; might be advantageous in the short term. But— I don't want to share a border with them. Black Chamber should be on top of it if that seems likely.  To the Senate— Hey, we won the war against the Seljuks! I'm told the resulting border settlement is inelegant. But if you ask me, purple's a pretty color in any shape. To the Black Chamber— Urgent request for progress on the assassination of Sultan Iskender. The Seljuks won't be this weak for long.   To the Senate— So, yeah. We're having another civil war. Those douxes, huh? Don't you wish we could just... I don't know... kill them all, or something? Just blue-skying here! Of course the Merchant Republic of Belgorod's rebelling too. I know some people here just want to make everything merchant republics! Well, they're jerks too. Douxes are pretty much the worst though. Never changes with those guys, huh? To the Black Chamber— Dokessa of Ryazan becoming increasingly unmanageable. Background: Ryazan a Byzantine exclave to the far north, on the eastern border of Kiev. Premyslava cannot simply be cut loose, however— in addition to holding the theme of Moesia, several counties of Greece have become attached to the Ryazan title. Ryazan title governed by crow laws of Kiev; cannot simply be revoked under Iouliana's reforms. Archaic. Don't have a solution yet. Will think of something eventually.  War itself should be trivial. Won't need to worry about Seljuk interference; the Ilkhanate has arrive on their western frontier.  To the Senate— So, there's two kinds of civil wars. There's the kind that tears the empire about for years and probably kills an emperor or two in the process before we win and put everyone in jail. And then there's the kind we win without even really trying! And then put everyone in jail. Guess which kind this one was? Anyway, I was going to revoke the theme of Moesia, but I guess the Ecumenical Patriarch himself beat us to the punch! Good for him! Our army's pretty tired from marching all the way to Jerusalem and back anyway.  To the Black Chamber— Latest dispatches from East— Persia has fallen to the Ilkhanate. Seljuk Empire still formidable. Iskender the Magnanimous still alive, still in power. Why? Remember who you are. Remember what your job is.   To the Senate— Hey, remember how you guys wanted us to conquer Venice? Remember how I said we'd need to lay some groundwork for that? Well, we're going to go ahead and start conquering a bunch of Croatia. Hope you're cool with that!  To the Black Chamber— Renewed crusades have restored the city of Jerusalem to the Genoese crusader republic. Don't expect it to last. Seljuks drained by wars with Shia caliphate, Rome, Mongols. Every projection still indicates Genoan dominion over the Levant is unsustainable in long term.  To the Senate— Hey, guess who's a vassal of the king of Croatia! And here I thought we'd run out of Bulgarias to fight. Looks like the duchy of Bulgaria is alive and kicking! But its armies weren't for very long. Sorry, Bulgaria!  The main Croatian army has lasted a bit longer by adopting the advanced strategy of "running away as fast as they can". Pretty sure that's not gonna turn out super great for them. I mean, just a hunch!  To the Black Chamber— Urge haste from General Leontios. Sicily has entered the war; presumably they sensed that our expansion into Croatia is merely a stepping stone to Italy. I assume their troops are en route. We need to defeat the Croatians in the field before they arrive.  To the Senate— Great news! We won the war! Croatia isn't too scary is it? Hey, some advice for the next war, King Vukan— try having like thirty thousand dudes in your army! That's what we did, and it worked out pretty swell.  Anyway, I think it's high time those merchant republics started paying their own way! We've given them a break in terms of their levies, so maybe they should, like, pay taxes? Just a thought!  To the Black Chamber— Iskender the Magnanimous still alive. Gravely disappointed in Black Chamber. Iskender also survived latest Seljuk civil war unscathed.  Pleased at news of renewed hostilities between Ilkhanate and Iskender; however, the Ilkhanate has turned north rather than plunging deeper into Seljuk heartland. Casualties will be damaging to Seljuks in short term; however in the long term I project this will have little to no effect on Seljuk power.  To the Senate— Do you like books? I like books. They're filled with great ideas to improve the empire! I especially like books from ancient Greece and Rome since I feel like they ran a pretty tight ship empire-wise. But there are also lots of new books being written in Constantinople about new ways to run an empire! I like the parts where there any douxes. What's your favorite book?  I like Alexander the Great a lot because he conquered pretty much the entire world. Of course, then he went and died. Meanwhile Augustus pretty much just conquered Egypt since the Republic had already conquered the rest of the Mediterranean before he was born, but then he built a regime so strong it managed to survive the rest of the Julio-Claudians! So, Augustus 1, Alexander 0.  I also like boys a lot! That's another thing I have in common with the ancient Greeks and Romans. Liking boys.  I also like unchallenged domination over the entire Mediterranean world! In conclusion, Rome was a land of contrasts.  The Croatians went and overthrew their king! The joke's on them, though, since that means we can throw the truce we signed with Vukan in the trash and go to war with them again! "FitzKlaudija" is a pretty weird name for a Croatian.  It's too bad we only have casus belli to claim Croatia one county at a time. But whatever, it's not like we're fighting the Seljuks here— I haven't even halted building projects in the capital to finance the war. That's how little I care.  To the Black Chamber— Venice unconcerned with Roman advance up the Adriatic. They dominate trade in Croatia, they dominate trade along the Adriatic coat of Greece. The border between the two shifting doesn't affect Venetian trading posts, they think. They'll get theirs, eventually.  A second Mongol army is advancing west. Once again, stay on top of this.  To the Senate— So I've had to go and revoke the theme of Nikaea from Doux Philippos II Komnenos. I know everyone loves revoking things! But maybe the True Religion's Advocates aren't super thrilled about us revoking a theme from a Catholic vassal? Or maybe the Komnenians would rather we not throw a Komnenoi out in favor of some rando? So I'd just like to say I didn't revoke the theme from him for either of those reasons! I did it because he hates me and is plotting against me and those aren't really qualities I like to encourage in my vassals. Or anyone, really.  To the Black Chamber— The Logothete of Cilicia is attempting to fabricate a claim on my title. Admire the optimism of Cilicia trying to lay claim to the Roman Empire, anyway. Still: kill her.  To the Senate— Progress marches on! Or, if you're an Old Roman, progress marches... backwards? Anyway, everyone loves building things.   Everyone also loves revoking themes from doukessas we don't like.  Anyway, it's 1230, and since Croatia's managed to avoid deposing their king all this time so our last treaty stayed in force, that means it's time to invade them again!  To the Senate— Anyway, it's 1231, which means it's time for Croatian resistance to have collapsed entirely and them to surrender to us! I could tell you how the war went but it's super boring. Like a billion Romans swarmed into Croatia and killed a bunch of Croatian and Bulgarian soldiers. Just read about the last time we did that! It's pretty much the same.  To the Black Chamber— Good news: The Ilkhanate has continued to expand at the Seljuk Empire's expense. Bad news: Rather than stabbing deep into the Seljuk heartland, they're moving into the resource-poor provinces of the northeast. Iskender remains in power. Likely the constant threat of Mongol encroachment makes him a unifying figure.  Still, Seljuks in a state of temporary weakness. We will go to war with them very soon.  Meanwhile, preparations continue for our next war in the West; perhaps the whole Roman Empire is Janus. I have dispatched my chancellor, Violante di Beirut, to Venice. I trust the Black Chamber will allow no harm to come to her as she works to undermine the doge's grip on that sinking city.  To the Senate— So, hey! I heard you were all pretty big fans of restoring the Pentarch of Antioch! This will give us sort of a weird looking non-contiguous Antiochan exclave. But after we win this war I'm sure we'll think of something to do about that. But I really think this is the best time to move forward on the Roman East Directive. It's not every day like half the Seljuk army gets killed by Mongols over a few provinces of desolate northern wasteland!  To the Black Chamber— Up until now, I have largely led wars from Constantinople. Now, however, I am obliged to fight on the frontlines— the Komnenoi are a line of warrior emperors and empresses. I do not wish to go down in history as the craven exception to this rule. The Komnenoi are also a line of emperors and empresses who have never lived past the age of fifty. And it was only the Gonorrhea once or twice. Should the worst happen— Princess Valeria is already an adult with a daughter of our own. There will be no regency. The succession is safe. She'll still need your help. I trust you know what to do. Euphrosyne Komnene Empress of Rome 1231   World Map, 1231:  (France is having a civil war. The HRE actually looks like that.)  Assassination Scorecard: Tsars Killed: 2 Sultans Killed: 4 Nosy Chancellors Killed: 2 OOC: For some reason, Project Balance makes it impossible to forge claims on the capitals of Merchant Republics. Allegedly, we would have been able to declare imperial conquest on Venice after conquering other huge swaths of territory. Instead, I just edited PB to let us start fabricating our claim since that's how it would have worked in vanilla, and that seemed more in keeping with the spirit of what the Senate voted for than using the eventual goal of conquering Venice as pretext to spend the next century or so conquering the rest of Italy. Also I sure wish there were a way to forbid your ruler from leading armies, since it's easy to miss it if they're not leading a flank. Empress Theonora fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Mar 1, 2014 |
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Mar 1, 2014 05:13
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 The Empress is dead. Long live the Empress. In what time she had, she amply proved the worth of the Komnenian factions trust in our rulers. And with the Mohammedans distracted by these far-east Tartars, we can but expect great things from the new Empress. And just to mention it, but my favourite book is a small work on the gathered tales about Diogenes, that my nanny read to me as a child. Now, if you will excuse me, I must go drink to mourn the passing of the Empress and then drink to celebrate the ascendance of the new one.
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Mar 1, 2014 05:28
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Steppes and Republics Well....uhh.... perhaps we should stay away from the Steppes for awhile, at least until these "Mongols" collapse upon themselves. Or perhaps we should convert them, then ally with them for they seem like great warriors that would benefit under Roman rule and Christian teachings.
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Mar 1, 2014 05:28
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Rincewind posted:World Map, 1231: I don't see what's so bad about the HRE. Sure, Lorraine looks a little wonky, buwhat the hell NORWAY? 
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Mar 1, 2014 05:38
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The Empress is dead, long live the empress! I am sad that the Komnenians of Nikeae had their title revoked rather than the traitor just kept in a comfortable prison until his heir could take over. But I trust the late Empress's decision. My favourite book is of course the Alexiad, a simply stellar work of history.
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Mar 1, 2014 05:39
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 Once, not so long ago it seems, our dearly departed Empress asked of us what our favorite books were. Had I the status to be worthy or the honor of speaking with the Empress myself, I would've informed her that mine was the Odyssey. For in truth, all Romans share a common fate as Odysseus. Here we are, many years removed from our homeland, for a few foolish choices made in either the fire of the moment or out of arrogance, hubris. But through our mind, our intelligence, our wit, we stand poised to strike back and return what is rightfully ours to us. All because Rome's Athena, our Empress, has led so well. May Antioch fall into our hands, let those Croations who squat on the province of Illyria be further mangled, Venice be conquered and the Seljuks pushed out of Rome's eastern provinces. The Empress is dead, long live the Empress!
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Mar 1, 2014 05:43
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What can be said of Empress Euphrosyne? She was kind, honest, and just, bringing her open, smiling love to all the Empire, and spreading that empire both east and west. Her honor was plain for all to see. None can say a ill word against her. The Empress is dead. Long live the Empress. If you wish our advice, Valeria, your servants await your orders.
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Mar 1, 2014 05:45
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I also like unchallenged domination over the entire Mediterranean world, as did our dearly departed Empress. Let us continue to work towards this aim, fellow Senators.
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Mar 1, 2014 05:46
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Personally, I'd be more concerned about the sudden invasion force that is currently eating chunks the size of nations out of our once greatest foe. I recommend sending our best and brightest theological mind out to speak with the Ilkhan himself. Perhaps if we can sway the barbarian Tengri off of their current path and into the light of the Lord, we can keep them killing the Turks and leaving us well enough alone. I'd make sure that the fellow we send, though, is expendable. Who knows what they're like to do if they don't find his teachings to their liking? Also, yes, dreadful business with the stabbings. This is why I avoid the front lines. Why send your personal forces when they represent only a small percentage of your troops? Sure, our forces would be left to lead themselves, but they've been trained properly, haven't they?
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Mar 1, 2014 06:03
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When word reached my grandfather of the Empress' death on the field of battle, they say he dropped dead immediately, his shrivelled old heart failed at last. Frankly I'm surprised the bastard lasted so long, almost as much as I was when I, a mere kataphraktos until today, received correspondence saying I'd won an election for his vacant seat! I hadn't even entered the race to my knowledge. I say this, perhaps, out of some misguided sense of common ground with our new Empress, so suddenly thrust into power. While I am not the legislator the previous Senator Flesnolk was, I hope to serve her as well as I can, though I pray for all our sakes this "Ilkhanate" we have been hearing about does not set its eyes on the great city.
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Mar 1, 2014 06:54
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The Senator steps over a puddle of wine and vomit as he leaves the Victory Party and scowls at the sound of thousands of people mourning the Empress. As he walks into the senate house he sees fifty senators arranged in a loose circle; mostly Old Romans and New Byzantines grinning and admiring the new maps. He walks past several steppe merchants arguing in their thick accents over trading rights in the conquered lands. The only other noise is the singing of the Guiding Light as they kneel on their strange rugs and the scrape of the Iconoclasts knives as he carves his name into the the mural of Iouliana the Great.  The Senator stumbles to the podium and yells for attention.  Romans, Byzantines, Senators,...what the gently caress did you just do? In a few short decades you have transformed the empire in a way to which there is no parallel in a thousand years of Roman history! For reasons which the Komnenians could not comprehend, and in pursuance of a decision proposed by a dog, (an actual canine, who's served with distinction on the foreign affairs committee for the past ten years!) on which we were never consulted, we find ourselves made strangers in our own country. You have allowed Euphrosyne to bring tens of thousands of foreigners and Turks into the empire! As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding. Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood". That tragic and intractable phenomenon which we watch with glee on the other side of the Bosphorus but which there is interwoven with the history and existence of the Seljuks, is coming upon us here by our own volition and our own neglect. Indeed, it has all but come. In numerical terms, it will be of Seljuk proportions long before the end of the century. Worse than all of this, even though Euphrosyne is dead, we are still being ruled a woman!  Only resolute and urgent action will avert this catastrophe now. Whether the loyal Doukes have the will to demand and obtain that action, I do not know. The Old Romans and New Byzantines have completely betrayed the ideals of the founding Komnenians. The Great Alexios is looking down on us from heaven; he is looking down and he is vomiting.  I sincerely pray that you are all eaten by Mongols, thank you for your time Ghetto Prince fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Mar 1, 2014 |
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Mar 1, 2014 07:01
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Ghetto Prince posted:The Old Romans and New Byzantines have completely betrayed the ideals of the founding Komnenians. By... conquering territory? You confuse me, Senator - perhaps you're still half-drunk!
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Mar 1, 2014 07:05
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e: nm
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Mar 1, 2014 10:07
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Flesnolk posted:
Indeed, the ideals of the founding Komnenians is 'We're the best, let's rule everything'. Conquering people and demanding tribute is what we do. It's practically the definition of 'Empire'. Sir, we are all shaken by the death of the Empress. I suggest you go home and lay down, perhaps talk to a physician or a priest. No-one will think less of you for your outburst. Love and grief make fools of us all.
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Mar 1, 2014 12:27
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Senators, my dear father has sent me in to announce his retirement to his estates in Athens. I am to take his place and this I do gladly! Hail the new Empress, hail the Roman Empire! My father taught me well, but I confess, I am unfamiliar with politics. Tell, me, if you will, of the state of the senate and it's senators?
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Mar 1, 2014 12:31
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NewMars posted:Senators, my dear father has sent me in to announce his retirement to his estates in Athens. I am to take his place and this I do gladly! Hail the new Empress, hail the Roman Empire! My father taught me well, but I confess, I am unfamiliar with politics. Tell, me, if you will, of the state of the senate and it's senators? The Senator wordlessly hands over a pamphlet, titled Senator Ratoslov's Guide to the Senate, 1212 Edition (revised).
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Mar 1, 2014 13:05
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Ghetto Prince posted:Worse than all of this, even though Euphrosyne is dead, we are still being ruled a woman! Gurgen I Qutuzid You judge our Empress, a proper Komnenian Empress for that matter, and on the basis of her gender rather than what she and her ancestors did for us and Byzantium? And you have the stomach to call US the betrayers of Komnenian ideal? Have the Komnenian empresses not fought back both Seljuk and Saimid invader? Have they not properly vassalized the steppe folk to the north and shared with them the boon of society and civilization? Have they not defeated the Bulgarians and shown them what happens to traitors to the Crown? They did everything an Emperor could, and just as well, and you use their gender as if it was something wrong? And the way you use Turk, as if it was a curse-word. It is not the Turks who are our enemies, but rather the two dynasties that seek to rule them and conquer Anatolia. Like you said yourself, many of your fellow Senators are of Turkish descent, myself included, and my family have been loyal to the Crown since the first stages of the Anatolian reconquest. My own father died at the hands of the Seljuks, one of the many casualties in Jerusalem. We're certainly more loyal than the Greco-Orthodox Douxes, constantly seeking to increase their own power and standing no matter what it does to their liege and country. Loyalty does not come from blood, religion or even gender, Senator. Loyalty stems from Loyalty, nothing more and nothing less. I've been loyal to the Empresses and Emperors not for what they were, or what God they trust in, but for what they do for the subjects of the Empire. They endorse the Steppe People of the north to take to the sea and become Merchants; they allow us Turks to remain within the borders despite what the Seljuks and Saimids does to our image; they allow a big Jewish minority to remain in the Capital, and use their services in the name of the people in times of need. Our Emperors and Empresses have been fair, just, and kind to their subjects. And that is why we stay loyal to them. Not because they're Greek, not because they're Orthodox, not even because they belong to house Komnenos. But because they're pure, or as close as you get in a harsh world like this one.
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Mar 1, 2014 13:21
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Ghetto Prince posted:
This crazed man does not speak for any Komnenian party member. He is far out of line and should be put to death. Every single Emperor and Empress of Komnenian blood have been a boon to this great Empire. I will not suffer any suggestion of the true born heir being removed from office for any reason other than God's own intervention. The Old Romans and New Byzantines are not traitors either my good man. With their support the Empress (may god have mercy on her soul) had the ability to extend the Empire further than it has been since before the Schism. Flee before we get drunk enough to stab you to death!
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Mar 1, 2014 13:33
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NewMars posted:Senators, my dear father has sent me in to announce his retirement to his estates in Athens. I am to take his place and this I do gladly! Hail the new Empress, hail the Roman Empire! My father taught me well, but I confess, I am unfamiliar with politics. Tell, me, if you will, of the state of the senate and it's senators?  Present state? No idea, κυβερνήτης, I'm fairly new here myself. Paterfamilias saw fit to retire to the monasteries of Mount Athos after the last Croatian war. He did, however, give me a spot of advice about how the Senate was doing in his day, that I may continue in his stead as the Milvian representative of the ΑΙ υποσημειώ Ιμπυ lineage. At present, you've got these two huge, corrupt, drunken power blocks, the Old Romans and New Byzantines. They're pretty similar: One wants to restore the 'Old' glories of the empire of 'Rome', the other wants to make 'New' glories for, er, the ancient city-state of 'Byzantion'? Basically they're both pro-expansion, lip-service Orthodox with tolerance for pagans on the one hand and the faiths of the subjugated on the other at least in some cases, Pro-Empress except for the more hidebound ones who insist on agnatic primogeniture as if we were a bunch of papist german barbarians. Speaking of drunks, you have the second-tier Komnenians, who basically support the family of the Empress to the hilt so that they don't have to worry about anything other than their drinks and laundry bills. They commit excesses thast would make the legendary republic of Crete blush, and their most diligent senator isn't even human, are you boy? καλό σκυλί!. They're basically a vomit-stained, drunken signet ring for whatever the Empress wants. On a par with them numerically you've got us, the Milvians. The faithful, the sober, the true. We stand up for the holy faith which the Empress champions, and advocate the restoration of the Pentarchy, the removal of heretics from office such as that Croatian doux and the present occupant of the bishopric of Rome, and the restoration of the true faith under the aegis of our Empire. Our loyalty to the Ecumenical Patriarch and to the faithful Empress in her role of champion of the faith is without question, as my father put it. Then you've got the fringe, special interest parties. The merchants and the steppe nomads. Generally, the provincials tend to stay sober and are pretty useful, and the merchants are usually coining it in with imported booze and encouraging policies which favour them as they pour. Last, and may they eternally be least, you have those advocating heresies. Iconoclasm, Papism and Mohammedism have all reared their ugly heads in these hallowed halls, and I long for the day when the Empress casts them down as her predecessors did to Arianism and Apollonianism. Fortunately, they are on the fringes. So, who do you stand with?
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Mar 1, 2014 13:52
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Luhood posted:
The Senator applauds. Hear, hear! Yes, that is an excellent and true statement of the ideals of the New Byzantine party. I support and applaud you, sir. My father spoke truly of you. You are a lion of the Senate. Lord Windy posted:
Please, fine gentlemen. I implore you not to speak so casually of murder in the streets of Constantinople. His statements, as monstrous as they may be, are no reason to mar the dignity of the Senate with such an act. I ask you, not for his sake but for the sake of Empress Valeria, promise me you will not dirty your sword today.
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Mar 1, 2014 13:52
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Luhood posted:
I have been swayed! Your new Byzantine ideals seem well thought through and most appreciable to me. You definitely seem like the party to back, if we wish to become a just and righteous power in this world. Not only great, but merciful and accepting as well.
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Mar 1, 2014 15:09
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 The Fraternalists applaud the taxing of our Republics, obviously too high taxes cause too much strain but having some money going back to the Empire is kind of the point. May I suggest that if we win this war, we make Antioch a Republic? We will begin to get a hold of Levant trade, and while the Genoans aren't doing great, they're doing a better job than any of their feudal Catholic brothers. Obviously this is not sending the money changers into the temple, but rather setting them outside the temple. With market stalls, offering beverages and refreshments for reasonable prices. Yes. Also while I am no fan of the Turk, I must say I think I might like these Mongols less. Ever since they came on the scene, imports from the east have risen in price.
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Mar 1, 2014 15:11
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Ratoslov posted:Please, fine gentlemen. I implore you not to speak so casually of murder in the streets of Constantinople. His statements, as monstrous as they may be, are no reason to mar the dignity of the Senate with such an act. I ask you, not for his sake but for the sake of Empress Valeria, promise me you will not dirty your sword today. And while the senator may have taken the great and ancient tradition of complete and utter contempt for the foreign a mite bit too far, as well as his low opinion of women, for which the Old Romans might tell you there is long and good tradition, I might remind him that before she is a woman she is the Empress. If she said she was a man, he would be a man. If she said she was a xhe, xhe would be xhe. They are the center and core of the Empire, around which the rest pivots, no matter their, personal identity. And I say the Monglols, might we see about converting them to the true faith? If they were to turn towards Orthodoxy, it would be but a short step towards an alliance and later, absorbtion into the Empire.
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Mar 1, 2014 15:28
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Rejected Fate posted:
I think, in answer to this suggestion, I will default to the eternal guide on proper conduct: 'What would Jesus do?' Let me consult this handy icon.  Oh. Well. It seems that merchants muscling in on territory devoted to God is the one thing guaranteed to get the Lamb of God, the Prince of Peace, the fount of forgiveness and love, to grab a weapon, beat the poo poo out of people and wreck their livelihood. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an anti-mercantilist. I applaud your efforts to bring Venice back under the imperial heel, and I would not be averse to a merchant republic in the area, indeed Lebanon would be an apt case, given its role in selling lumber for the first great temple attested in the old testament. But the Holy See of Antioch? That's just asking for trouble. I counterpropose that we set aside this land to the autocephalous orthodox patriarch of Antioch. We don't want the Way, the Truth and the Light to turn around and start scourging us to drive us out, do we? our empire had enough troubles with the last Scourge of God.
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Mar 1, 2014 15:39
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Rejected Fate posted:Also while I am no fan of the Turk, I must say I think I might like these Mongols less. Ever since they came on the scene, imports from the east have risen in price. Eh, give the Mongols some credit. Not their fault their preferred style of warfare crushes the infrastructure of the affected areas. Give them a decade, they'll have rebuilt and will be invaluable trade partners, I'm sure of it. Also, I'd like to officially propose an initiative to convert the leader of the Ilkhanate, if possible. Send our most persuasive religious leader to his current place of residence and let him work his magic. While we New Byzantines are religiously tolerant, we recognize that that is not the case for others, so the occasional persuasion could bring us a great gain and a great ally. Ofaloaf posted:I don't see what's so bad about the HRE. Sure, Lorraine looks a little wonky, buwhat the hell NORWAY? Blame Project Balance. It's one of the more odd things about it that about 50~75% of the time, Norway ends up under the duke of Saxony. I don't get it at all.
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Mar 1, 2014 15:40
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"Senators", I see that you are resolved to let these women pervert the laws of God and Nature, but I will admit that I may have been too...too... Luhood posted:
 ...REMOVE KEBAB remove kebabyou are worst turk. you are the turk idiot you are the turk smell!* *At this point the senator began foaming at the mouth and collapsed to the floor.
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Mar 1, 2014 15:42
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TheMcD posted:
Seconded wholeheartedly! I applaud the initiative of the senators advocating this policy.
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Mar 1, 2014 15:45
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Meinberg posted:
I would like to propose that we not only send envoys to the Ilkhan, but an expedition beyond into the lands he hails from. Perhaps even further! Only recently, I have read old Roman records of an empire nearly as vast and great as ancient Rome. Who knows what sorts of cultural and military marvels they might have we do not know about? I would think that we even could send one of our fellow senators on this journey to get a proper account of how things are nowadays in this faraway land. (Not it.) OOC: Byzantine Marco Polo. I'd love to see that happen.
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Mar 1, 2014 15:51
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 In the spirit of demonstrating the value of we "Turkish" citizens, as some here insist on referring to us, I bring an imminently practical proposal. In the spirit of unity and cooperation, I propose a series if minor architectural repairs and improvements to the Hagia Sophia. With this one move, we would preserve on of Justinian's great works for the Old Romans, give it a small modern update in the Spirit of the New Byzantines, appeal to the Milvians and give the merchant parties an opportunity to sponsor great art and earn the gratitude of the Empire. I confess I don't have an angle to appeal to the Catholic bloc with, but surely team spirit is reason enough. For my part, I am merely grateful for the chance to prove my value to the Empire. Just for the sake of discussion, I had an architect draw up some of the most popular suggestions: 
Talky fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Mar 1, 2014 |
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Mar 1, 2014 15:52
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I too applaud our decision to place more taxes on the merchants, that's why the Fraternalists supported the creation of republics, yeah they might be back stabbing assholes sometimes, but at least you can get a ton of money off them for the empire. Actually, I was going to propose Antioch be given to the Church, given its holy importance to us. We have to remember one of our planks as the Fraternalistsis the creation of more republic AND church vassals and less vile DOUXS. Though that does remind me, we should be looking at the map and figuring out where to potentially place more merchant republics either from conquered land or when we inevitably have to revoke the titles of more DOUXS. Crimea dominates the black sea, and once we add Venice to the Empire, we'll have some nice control over Adriatic and some Aegean trade. For Levant trade, Cilicia might be a better bet for propping up a republic. Also if any of the Greek DOUXS rebel, it might be worthwhile to create a republic there too, given the peninsula's central position.
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Mar 1, 2014 15:53
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Talky posted:[Timg]http://i.imgur.com/nfSQBF0.jpg?1[timg] Ahem. I may be mistaken, but it appears the "senator" is suggesting defiling the beautiful Roman architecture of the Hagia Sophia by adding minarets used by our enemies to call their followers to prayer? I may not speak for the entirety of my party, or for my colleagues and close friends the Milvians - but I for one will oppose to my last breath the desecration of our noble Roman traditions with Mohammedan foolishness.
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Mar 1, 2014 15:58
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The Empress is dead, long live the Empress! I am eternally grateful to the Empress's mother for personally leading the charge to free Antioch. She gave her life in this pursuit, and no other action can command the same kind of respect. It is my firm demand that once her heir finishes her work that we erect statues to Empress Euphrosyne in every square and every garden of Antioch, that no citizen of that holy city ever forgets the crown personally bled for its sake.
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Mar 1, 2014 16:14
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Talky posted:
Gnooble posted:
While I do agree with the senators of the Guiding Light that the Hagia Sophia currently is in a state of disrepair, not to mention in an architecturally weak design to begin with, I also have to agree with Senator Gnooble. While I am all for allowing the construction of an actual Mosque for the Mohammedan population living in our glorious Constantinople, as well as a Synagogue for our Jewish population of course, adding what is nothing less than minarets to Justinian's Hagia Sophia would be rather out of place to say the least. A rebuilding of the dome on its own is a sound idea, and we could still use Senator Talky's concept to add bell towers instead of minarets. Similar to what the Catholics use to call to ceremony, these could be used to call the spread out populace of the ever expanding Constantinople to religious ceremonies and such. In times of emergency these could also be used as guard towers to protect the sacred relics kept within, thus not differing to much from the original architect's plans while still keeping to its Christian roots and purpose. And Senator Gnooble, while the concept of Senator Talky do carry certain Arabic designs you have to admit that they do have a better record of constructing lasting yet solid domes than the Orthodox faith. Luhood fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Mar 1, 2014 |
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Mar 1, 2014 16:44
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Much as I like the idea of adding very tall columns the Hagia Sophia as an Old Roman, I would not quite envisage the same kind of structural reform; perhaps a more triangular façade? A more Roman-Corinthian type of column rather than the Mohamedan minaret?
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Mar 1, 2014 16:58
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I would instead suggest to build several new houses of worship of different faiths around the Hagia Sophia, to signify that all faiths are accepted, but Orthodoxy will still stand at the center of it all.
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Mar 1, 2014 17:00
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As a conciliatory gesture to the wayward senator proposing this change, I agree that we should focus our efforts on strengthening and refurbishing the Hagia Sophia first and foremost, and indeed I suggest putting a halt to building any other places of worship in the capital at least until the refurbishment is complete, so that we can truly do our utmost to restore this holy site without distractions. Heathen minarets are, however, entirely out of the question.
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Mar 1, 2014 17:14
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Well I suppose they do look a bit like Minarets, now that you point it out. I don't see why that should be a bad thing, as I'm sure the Ecumenical Patriarch would appreciate having the ability to remind his followers when it is time to attend services. Are some of my colleagues really proposing that we ignore useful and entirely practical architectural designs just because someone you don't like came up with them first?
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Mar 1, 2014 17:23
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Talky posted:
No, I'm proposing avoiding syncretism in the heart of our capital. Imagine, if you will, followers of your own vile beliefs arriving in our great city and setting eyes upon your minaretised Hagia Sophia. They would wrongly assume that it would be a place welcoming to their Mohammedan fallacies, and would be in for a very rude awakening when they trespass upon the heart of Orthodox worship. It is true that the splendour of our faith may convince them to renounce their wrongheaded beliefs, which is a point in favour, but it seems fundamentally dishonest to draw in heathens in that manner when there are plenty of more respectable methods of conversion available. Would it not be better, once the Hagia Sophia is restored to its full glory, to petition the Empress in concordance with the New Byzantines, for some venue where you can kneel on your rags and prostrate yourself in idolatrous fervour towards the cubic heathen temple in Mecca? Whilst I would oppose such a beneficence being granted to you, I would certainly not stand in the way of you asking. We must not allow Mahommedan beliefs to ensnare the true orthodoxy, nor should the true orthodoxy be tainted by commingling with Mohammedan beliefs. Keep them separate, to each their own.
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Mar 1, 2014 17:35
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