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rscott posted:Uber took a bunch of VC and paid a Google executive to commit industrial espionage I suspect it's either that or Uber knew Otto was built entirely on stolen tech and told their due diligence team to suppress sending any documents that would expose that fact. Either way they are turbo-hosed. Good riddance. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 5, 2017 16:01
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axeil posted:And new updates roll in. Now Uber/that guy are claiming they can't disclose anything related to the acquisition on grounds of self-incrimination in criminal proceedings. my_crimes.txt
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Apr 5, 2017 16:46
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Rhesus Pieces posted:https://twitter.com/feldpos/status/848554527204794368 This one made BBC tech news. Garadget faces backlash after locking out irate user http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39502256
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Apr 5, 2017 16:59
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Pro-tip: dont buy anything that has an app. Apps are made by programmers and programmers are terrible.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:24
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9-Volt Assault posted:Pro-tip: dont buy anything that has an app. Apps are made by programmers and programmers are terrible. Don't buy anything. Things are made by people and people are terrible.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:26
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Tardigrade posted:This one made BBC tech news. quote:The block has been reversed and founder Denis Grisak agreed his first reaction was not the "slickest PR move". Which makes it perfectly alright.
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Apr 5, 2017 20:30
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axeil posted:And new updates roll in. Now Uber/that guy are claiming they can't disclose anything related to the acquisition on grounds of self-incrimination in criminal proceedings. Dude almost def committed corporate espionage but please don't imply claiming the fifth means the person is guilty. It's become a really common fallacious assertion in the last decade which is noticeably eroding one of the basic protections of our legal system. The evidence appears damning enough on its own.
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Apr 5, 2017 20:40
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pr0zac posted:Dude almost def committed corporate espionage but please don't imply claiming the fifth means the person is guilty. It's become a really common fallacious assertion in the last decade which is noticeably eroding one of the basic protections of our legal system. The evidence appears damning enough on its own. The actions taken thus far has been civil, and as such invoking the fifth meant that the case has now possibly escalated into the realm of criminal, which is what I believe axeil was trying to emphasize.
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Apr 5, 2017 20:46
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outlier posted:Which makes it perfectly alright. Such thin-skinned babies. Unsatisfied customers are an inevitability in the consumer products world and they're treating them like trolls on a message board where they have admin privileges.
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Apr 5, 2017 20:47
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pr0zac posted:Dude almost def committed corporate espionage but please don't imply claiming the fifth means the person is guilty. It's become a really common fallacious assertion in the last decade which is noticeably eroding one of the basic protections of our legal system. The evidence appears damning enough on its own. There's a difference between pleading the fifth on the witness stand and pleading the fifth during the procedure of discovery, though.
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Apr 5, 2017 20:48
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exploded mummy posted:The actions taken thus far has been civil, and as such invoking the fifth meant that the case has now possibly escalated into the realm of criminal, which is what I believe axeil was trying to emphasize. hey, invoking the fifth is not rude, uncivil, or uncouth. to suggest it's criminal is laughable
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Apr 5, 2017 20:53
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call to action posted:There's a difference between pleading the fifth on the witness stand and pleading the fifth during the procedure of discovery, though. What's the significance of that difference? Is it like asking for a lawyer as soon as the cops show up, instead of talking with them a bit first?
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Apr 5, 2017 21:17
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exploded mummy posted:The actions taken thus far has been civil, and as such invoking the fifth meant that the case has now possibly escalated into the realm of criminal, which is what I believe axeil was trying to emphasize. This is correct. Claiming the 5th in a civil case is very unorthodox as far as I'm aware as it implies you/your attorneys believe there is criminal wrong-doing you need to be shielded from but IANAL so if an actual lawyer has better insight I defer to them. At the very least, it implies there could be a criminal investigation which I don't think anyone really saw coming. Subjunctive posted:What's the significance of that difference? Again, IANAL but to my knowledge you can't refuse to hand over documents as evidence. You can't be compelled to verbally testify against yourself but if you wrote a document that said "it's me I did it" or had other physical pieces of evidence you can be compelled to turn those over. axeil fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 21:27
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Is there a criminal investigation right now?
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Apr 5, 2017 21:34
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Claiming the fifth in a civil case like this, where if the allegations are true, there is criminal implications is pretty normal.
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Apr 5, 2017 21:40
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http://www.twitter.com/samfbiddle/status/849656224882855936 e: I cannot get the embed to work. FML.
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Apr 5, 2017 21:40
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call to action posted:There's a difference between pleading the fifth on the witness stand and pleading the fifth during the procedure of discovery, though. If you believe that, then you have no defense against turning over your encryption keys.
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Apr 5, 2017 21:47
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Arsenic Lupin posted:http://www.twitter.com/samfbiddle/status/849656224882855936 Maybe as https? https://www.twitter.com/samfbiddle/status/849656224882855936 E: nope!
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Apr 5, 2017 21:50
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Subjunctive posted:Maybe as https? https://twitter.com/samfbiddle/status/849656224882855936
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Apr 5, 2017 21:56
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Subjunctive posted:Maybe as https? quote:this Kissinger (lol) quote painted on the floor of Uber’s office in SF has got to be one of the most accidentally hilarious things I’ve seen  efb
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Apr 5, 2017 21:56
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How did you type that in, for future reference?
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Apr 5, 2017 22:10
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"The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer." - Uber
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Apr 6, 2017 02:24
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Today in "Uber is hosed": Uber unable to produce subpoenaed documents related to the Waymo/Google case. Judge smacks them down and says they're cruisin' for a preliminary injunction. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/04/judge-orders-uber-to-search-servers-work-harder-to-find-waymos-14000-files/ Ars posted:Judge orders Uber to search servers, work harder to find Waymo’s 14,000 files
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Apr 6, 2017 15:15
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axeil posted:Today in "Uber is hosed": ... wow. Also, if an ex-Googler wasn't able to set up an adequate internal search system on code, something you'd need for day-to-day work, he was pretty darn dumb. 12 terabytes of data is petty change.
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Apr 6, 2017 15:22
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Does wiping the files and hoping people don't find out become a good option at this point?
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Apr 6, 2017 15:24
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call to action posted:Does wiping the files and hoping people don't find out become a good option at this point? *cough*backups*cough*
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Apr 6, 2017 15:25
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I always wonder that about "discovery", if people ever (say) just rig and heavily document a search that looks legit but won't actually find the things they most want to hide and the lawyers tacitly agree to put their neck out there on that. Though even then there is no version of a legit-looking search that can't find copies of known documents unless they were deleted or actually kept off any drive they're searching.
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Apr 6, 2017 15:27
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Alsup is so good. Uber must have shat themselves when they drew him as judge.
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Apr 6, 2017 15:28
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pangstrom posted:I always wonder that about "discovery", if people ever (say) just rig and heavily document a search that looks legit but won't actually find the things they most want to hide and the lawyers tacitly agree to put their neck out there on that. Though even then there is no version of a legit-looking search that can't find copies of known documents unless they were deleted or actually kept off any drive they're searching.
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Apr 6, 2017 15:32
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call to action posted:Does wiping the files and hoping people don't find out become a good option at this point? I figured the more likely scenario was that they're stored on an external flash drive that is never connected to the overall Uber system. That or Uber has some crazy system that masks files related to lawsuits. I mean it sounds nutty but then again they had a routine in their app that prevented cops from finding them operating in jurisdictions where they're not allowed. pre-emptive puppy so i don't get probated again: 
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Apr 6, 2017 15:34
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Is there a software equivalent of a forensic accountant? IIRC in the Google/Oracle case, the Oracle side used Google Gmail document drafts to show that a senior engineer was considering legal aspects of their Java reimplementation.
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Apr 6, 2017 15:38
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axeil posted:I figured the more likely scenario was that they're stored on an external flash drive that is never connected to the overall Uber system. pangstrom fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 15:45
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pangstrom posted:Yeah that's what I was thinking, except then you've got a problem getting relevant information to your engineers etc., or outright telling them "hey these documents can't be on the system for uh reasons". Maybe he condensed crucial stuff in some summary documents or something. If Uber lose this one, their self-driving division is probably toast, but how much of a dent would it make on Uber proper? Would the punitive damages be big enough to make a dent?
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Apr 6, 2017 15:48
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Arsenic Lupin posted:You'd expect somebody to slip and copy something over, just because people are careless. "I need this on my local share because other reasons." I'm no expert, but Uber's future seems to be dependent on the success of its self-driving cars, and I can't imagine investors will be too happy about their losing the case and having to start all over. If investors lose confidence and start pulling out, they're toast.
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Apr 6, 2017 15:52
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aware of dog posted:I'm no expert, but Uber's future seems to be dependent on the success of its self-driving cars this is totally a hail mary to keep the investors on the hook. even if uber could deploy a self driving car in time to save their business (they can't) it would be such a radical shift in their business model they'd collapse anyway uber depends on enticing their not-employees to commit their time and capital in the form of a vehicle. uber doesn't own the cars. then suddenly they're going to own and maintain fleets of brand new robot cars? they absolutely do not have the infrastructure for this, which would be fabulously expensive... or if not, they're going to expect people to rent out their brand new robot cars? like the uber of the future is a world where i allow a corporation to take control of my shiny new privately owned vehicle for a few bucks and hour and return it to me at the end of the day, where i'm still responsible for fuel, maintenance, and cleaning the vehicle that i'm not even inside anymore to make sure teens aren't jerking each other off in my back seat? yeah sure boner confessor fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 15:58
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Isn't Uber's/Otto's tech the only real competitor to Google/Waymo?
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Apr 6, 2017 15:59
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pangstrom posted:Yeah that's what I was thinking, except then you've got a problem getting relevant information to your engineers etc., or outright telling them "hey these documents can't be on the system for uh reasons" which would be a bad idea even in the context of a man who apparently has a lot of bad ideas. Maybe he condensed crucial stuff in some summary documents, or maybe he just poured over them himself to give his folks "helpful design tips" or "avenues to explore"? Yeah I figured he either summarized the documents, re-created them in a way that wouldn't trip searches for the same documents or somehow put the stuff on an air-gapped server that Uber isn't aware of. Of course this assumes that Uber is telling the truth that they searched and didn't find them. I find it much more likely they "searched" or have some sort of masking program for all their shady/unethical documents to prevent discovery. Arsenic Lupin posted:You'd expect somebody to slip and copy something over, just because people are careless. "I need this on my local share because other reasons." Uber's business model straight up fails if they lack self-driving tech in the next 5 years. They're only getting 40% of the revenue needed to cover the cost of each ride with a human driver and are bleeding money. There's no chance of another round of venture capital funding given all the problems they have and an IPO would be a disaster. On top of that they're already having issues retaining drivers because the pay is so horrible. if they need to jack up rates they're going to hemorrhage customers and go into a death spiral. It'd be like if Netflix lost money on every DVD they mailed you and were legally barred from making an online streaming service. It's potentially a death sentence.
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Apr 6, 2017 16:00
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boner confessor posted:this is totally a hail mary to keep the investors on the hook. even if uber could deploy a self driving car in time to save their business (they can't) it would be such a radical shift in their business model they'd collapse anyway Oh no question. They're also looking past that to flying cars too  it's entirely investor story time. call to action posted:Isn't Uber's/Otto's tech the only real competitor to Google/Waymo? No? There's like at least a dozen companies working on self driving cars atm
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Apr 6, 2017 16:01
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call to action posted:Isn't Uber's/Otto's tech the only real competitor to Google/Waymo? no, tesla and the other actual for real car makers are making quiet progress and will probably be the first to market with a fully automated vehicle it's odd to me that people think software developers will be the bigger innovators in the car industry than car manufacturers themselves
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Apr 6, 2017 16:02
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Is there a software equivalent of a forensic accountant? IIRC in the Google/Oracle case, the Oracle side used Google Gmail document drafts to show that a senior engineer was considering legal aspects of their Java reimplementation. I'm pretty sure Google found out about this whole thing through someone doing database forensics and discovering that Levandowski has downloaded 14,000 onto external media in a suspect way, just before leaving the company.
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Apr 6, 2017 16:03
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