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Twiddy posted:Oh my god let's go back to the basics, this entire thing started because you couldn't follow some visual story telling cues for what was going on. The entire avalon thing was not a fault of this adaptation, it's because you failed to follow what was there. This isn't a problem of loving wikipedias, this is a problem of your reading comprehension. By visual cues, it's really just one, lasting for about a second, in an episode that was released half a year ago. But my problem is less with that and more with the idea that my issues are resolved in other routes. I shouldn't have to read the VN to understand the UBW anime. The anime should exist on its own, and have the necessary information in a clear format without relying on knowledge of source material if it is an adaptation. Twiddy posted:Why don't you think about why the light novel does that? Actually, screw that, here's the answer. The novel doesn't justify dumb decisions, it justifies bold decisions. More specifically, it follows role playing a character who literally does not think about his survival because he thinks his life is worthless due to extreme survivor's guilt (a person you are calling stupid) and is working all the time to save others. This is the character you're supposed to be. More specifically, you just completely cherry picked that part of the point and ignored that you repeatedly ignore story structure and charactertization to the point that you've repeatedly gotten things wrong and made incorrect evaluations. I get that part of Shriou's characterization, but it still doesn't change the fact that it still comes off as irritating and enforced by narrative rather than something happening organically. I almost feel this story would work a lot better without all the super heroic figures and was more strictly realistic, ala Oyasumi Punpun. Twiddy posted:This is what is called back-pedaling. It is what you do when you start realizing you're wrong in an argument and try to redeem it. My argument is entirely consistent here. Gilgamesh is a demigod and does get somewhat serious when he needs to (killing Heracles), but since he's a demigod he really doesn't need to bother worrying about the rest. Shirou and Rin do not have that luxury.
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May 25, 2015 10:06
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You are talking all kinds of poo poo about a thing you haven't played and in fact refuse to even try.
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May 25, 2015 14:55
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Lord Justice posted:I consider Urobuchi to be one of the best writers of the early 21st Century 
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May 25, 2015 15:37
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May 25, 2015 15:40
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I don't know how so much can be written by people in this thread for the silly VN Fate/Stay Night.
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May 25, 2015 15:42
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littleorv posted:I don't know how so much can be written by people in this thread for the silly VN Fate/Stay Night.
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May 25, 2015 15:44
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Endorph posted:talking and thinking about things is cool So my teachers kept telling me but I never believed them.
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May 25, 2015 15:46
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littleorv posted:I don't know how so much can be written by people in this thread for the silly VN Fate/Stay Night. it's epic as hell, and i like posting
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May 25, 2015 15:48
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I like the show and my favourite part of this thread is coming in here and bashing Rin by calling her a trash tier waifu.
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May 25, 2015 15:52
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In a good adaptation you shouldn't have to refer to a wiki, or play the VN, in my opinion. Because this is not the VN. This is the anime. I can't imagine anyone in any other sort of adaption saying that you should just read the wiki if your confused. I mean I guess if their intent was to just add some cool fight scenes to the VN for fans of the VN, whatever, but I don't think it was.
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May 25, 2015 16:26
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Surprisingly Dope posted:In a good adaptation you shouldn't have to refer to a wiki, or play the VN, in my opinion. Because this is not the VN. This is the anime. I can't imagine anyone in any other sort of adaption saying that you should just read the wiki if your confused. I mean I guess if their intent was to just add some cool fight scenes to the VN for fans of the VN, whatever, but I don't think it was. I think there are a couple of different goals an adaptation can have. It can aim to work as a standalone piece of media, or it can be an attempt to expand an existing work into another medium, but still require knowledge of the initial work to appreciate. There's nothing inherently wrong with either type of adaptation; obviously some people will like more one than the other, but there's a pretty distinct line between "I don't like this kind of thing" and "this kind of thing isn't actually a kind of thing but rather a failure to achieve [other kind of thing]". Also
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May 25, 2015 16:39
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Surprisingly Dope posted:In a good adaptation you shouldn't have to refer to a wiki, or play the VN, in my opinion. Because this is not the VN. This is the anime. I can't imagine anyone in any other sort of adaption saying that you should just read the wiki if your confused. I mean I guess if their intent was to just add some cool fight scenes to the VN for fans of the VN, whatever, but I don't think it was. Some of the advertising ("iOS: Fate; TV anime: UBW; Movie: HF") suggested to me that you're not supposed to have played the whole VN, but you're supposed to have played the Fate route. They still did make attempts to make things understandable to people who haven't played Fate, though; the explanation of Avalon wasn't originally in UBW, for example. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 16:55 on May 25, 2015 |
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May 25, 2015 16:53
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I like Urobuchi but yeah
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May 25, 2015 17:10
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Surprisingly Dope posted:In a good adaptation you shouldn't have to refer to a wiki, or play the VN, in my opinion. Because this is not the VN. This is the anime. I can't imagine anyone in any other sort of adaption saying that you should just read the wiki if your confused. I mean I guess if their intent was to just add some cool fight scenes to the VN for fans of the VN, whatever, but I don't think it was. Counter point: Game of Thrones. People don't even remember most of the characters names.
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May 25, 2015 17:25
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Lord Justice why do you think you have the answers on how to make the adaptation 100x better and how they should just combine all the routes when by your own admission you know nothing outside fate/zero and this adaptation of UBW. How does that make any logical sense at all
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May 25, 2015 17:55
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Lord Justice why do you think you have the answers on how to make the adaptation 100x better and how they should just combine all the routes when by your own admission you know nothing outside fate/zero and this adaptation of UBW. How does that make any logical sense at all
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May 25, 2015 17:58
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Rodyle posted:You are talking all kinds of poo poo about a thing you haven't played and in fact refuse to even try. I've really only ever talked about the anime when discussing the problems with the narrative, my experience with the VN is non-existent so I can't comment on that specifically. I only bring it up in relation to its influence on the anime itself, such as Shirou's decision making. Ibram Gaunt posted:Lord Justice why do you think you have the answers on how to make the adaptation 100x better and how they should just combine all the routes when by your own admission you know nothing outside fate/zero and this adaptation of UBW. How does that make any logical sense at all I never claimed to know exactly how such an adaptation could be accomplished. Rather, my point is trying to adapt F/SN as it is doesn't work very well due to the aforementioned problem with the routes working together. I've been told repeatedly that answers and development lie in other routes, and that suggests to me that a complete rewrite (not just combining the routes) of F/SN for an anime adaptation would better, so that information and development is put together properly in a complete narrative. As for my comment on Urobuchi, let me qualify that a bit. Urobuchi is one of the best writers of the early 21st Century when writing in his element, I.E, what we see with F/Z and Madoka. His writing tends to suffer when he writes outside of that (Gargantia, Expelled from Paradise).
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May 25, 2015 18:08
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Please read a real book if you think Urobuchi is an amazing author. This is not me trying to own you, this is an honest suggestion.
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May 25, 2015 18:09
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Please read a real book if you think Urobuchi is an amazing author. This is not me trying to own you, this is an honest suggestion. I don't really agree with the philosophy that books are inherently superior to anime as an artistic medium. They have their merits, but so does anime, and I don't feel a book is ever going to come close to Madoka in terms of quality, of which Urobuchi's writing was an integral component. I also feel an author and writer to be different in this context, you don't write an anime script in the same way you write a book. Essentially, you can't really compare the two, beyond subjective measures of quality.
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May 25, 2015 18:19
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Lord Justice posted:As for my comment on Urobuchi, let me qualify that a bit. Urobuchi is one of the best writers of the early 21st Century when writing in his element, I.E, what we see with F/Z and Madoka. His writing tends to suffer when he writes outside of that (Gargantia, Expelled from Paradise). Not trying to be dick here (even though it's my MO) but you should expand your horizons a bit and read some honest to god literature. Find one of those 100 books to read before you die lists and pick a book that sounds interesting.
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May 25, 2015 18:19
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Lord Justice posted:I don't really agree with the philosophy that books are inherently superior to anime as an artistic medium. They have their merits, but so does anime, and I don't feel a book is ever going to come close to Madoka in terms of quality, of which Urobuchi's writing was an integral component. I also feel an author and writer to be different in this context, you don't write an anime script in the same way you write a book. Essentially, you can't really compare the two, beyond subjective measures of quality. Yikes
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May 25, 2015 18:23
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i don't think there are inherently superior mediums, but there are countless literary authors better than urobuchi
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May 25, 2015 18:24
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Raenir Salazar posted:Counter point: Game of Thrones. People don't even remember most of the characters names. True I suppose but they make it work because I still know many people that haven't read the books and watch it casually. Otherwise it wouldn't be as successful and widespread as it is.
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May 25, 2015 18:27
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I liked this episode and Shiro pulling the sword out of the ground as if he's opening his way into hell was the loving bomb.
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May 25, 2015 18:30
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littleorv posted:I like the show and my favourite part of this thread is coming in here and bashing Rin by calling her a trash tier waifu.
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May 25, 2015 18:50
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Cake Attack posted:i don't think there are inherently superior mediums, but there are countless literary authors better than urobuchi there are also countless anime authors better than urobuchi
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May 25, 2015 18:53
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and i love urobuchi
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May 25, 2015 18:53
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urobuchi may in fact have been the trash tier waifu all along
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May 25, 2015 19:06
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Endorph posted:there are also countless anime authors better than urobuchi Mind naming some? This isn't me trying to gotcha, it's just that I think discussions about good writers are neat.
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May 25, 2015 19:09
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Kinoko Nasu Riichiro Inagaki Hirohiko Araki
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May 25, 2015 19:10
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Darth Walrus posted:Mind naming some? rip satoshi kon sayo yamamoto's only gotten to Anime Auteur a couple of things but both of them are really good yoshiyuki tomino's only been on point like, twice in his whole life, but when he's on point holy poo poo is he on point
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May 25, 2015 19:12
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Ryohgo Narita
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May 25, 2015 19:12
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Rodyle posted:Ryohgo Narita 
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May 25, 2015 19:15
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Daisuke Ishiwatari
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May 25, 2015 19:17
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Beef Waifu posted:Daisuke Ishiwatari That doesn't sound like Toshimichi Mori.
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May 25, 2015 19:36
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I like this show and I don't care if other people hate parts of it.
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May 25, 2015 20:49
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-Troika- posted:I like this show and I don't care if other people hate parts of it. 
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May 25, 2015 20:51
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BlitzBlast posted:That doesn't sound like Toshimichi Mori. coming out of lurking to emptyquote this. well ok, bye.
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May 25, 2015 21:41
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-Troika- posted:I like this show and I don't care if other people hate parts of it. What if we hate all of it?
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May 25, 2015 22:03
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Then you're probably not really watching it in the first place.
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May 25, 2015 22:27
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