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Leperflesh play a game with us it's rare we get so many games recruiting at once
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Mar 24, 2023 03:34
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It may be more common for a time
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Mar 24, 2023 03:41
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wins32767 posted:Ninja: gently caress, miscounted the snipe. get his rear end ##vote wins
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Mar 24, 2023 03:46
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What is wrong with saying "vote out"? VOLO is more catchy than EXLO
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Mar 24, 2023 04:23
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I like to say dunked because I imagine someone sitting on a chair above a water tank and falling in like a fairground amusement.
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Mar 24, 2023 04:23
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Sandwolf posted:The group of veteran players who have largely not played at all recently to come get a slam in on a currently active player is the cliques you old folks have been railing against. Come on. I nominate Sandwolf.
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Mar 24, 2023 04:30
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Why are people being so rude to My Second Re-Reg in this thread? I don't like it.
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Mar 24, 2023 04:34
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we're trying to get him to the third re-reg
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Mar 24, 2023 04:46
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Jump King posted:we're trying to get him to the third re-reg I wish this weren't funny.
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Mar 24, 2023 04:51
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I'm a big fan of M2RR personally
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Mar 24, 2023 04:58
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It's okay young mafia players. They'll fall asleep watching westerns on the lazy boy soon enough and we'll have the thread to ourselves.
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Mar 24, 2023 04:59
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Toalpaz posted:It's okay young mafia players. They'll fall asleep watching westerns on the lazy boy soon enough and we'll have the thread to ourselves. didn't you just turn 37?
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Mar 24, 2023 05:00
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wins32767 posted:I mean seriously, this is a group of people who argue and shitpost for fun. And not just the normal SA levels. These are experts in it. The creme de la creme. For well over a decade these people have been arguing over stupid poo poo day in and day out. D&D doesn't even begin to approach the intensity, the fire that has served as a crucible for these folks. I would put these few, proud, argumentative shitposters against any other group, from any other site. I know they'd come out on top. Hahah yeah we argue and are stubborn because that's the game, out there *points outside*. But in here *gestures at the walls of the thread* we should be able to easily have honest conversations without sniping or driving by each other.
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Mar 24, 2023 05:03
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wins32767 posted:Leperflesh, this is why you need to set a deadline. for what? STONE COLD 64 posted:Leperflesh play a game with us it's rare we get so many games recruiting at once I want to watch a game first, see how it goes; and then... I'll be honest, probably not, but never say never.
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Mar 24, 2023 05:03
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Snooze Cruise posted:didn't you just turn 37? 
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Mar 24, 2023 05:05
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Jump King posted:will you be my partner in ecco's temple game? I have a firm "one game of Mafia at a time" rule and I'm already in the Rimworld game, but if I die before signups close I will consider it!
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Mar 24, 2023 05:35
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Johnny Keats posted:What is wrong with saying "vote out"? VOLO is more catchy than EXLO We need to get hip with the kids, yeet or lose sounds like it could catch on.
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Mar 24, 2023 10:19
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Johnny Keats posted:What is wrong with saying "vote out"? VOLO is more catchy than EXLO I don't want to be sued by Wizard's of the Coast
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Mar 24, 2023 11:45
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Johnny Keats posted:What is wrong with saying "vote out"? VOLO is more catchy than EXLO I like this and I think I'll try to switch to it.
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Mar 24, 2023 11:59
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Johnny Keats posted:Why are people being so rude to My Second Re-Reg in this thread? I don't like it. Some people perceived M2RR’s post as being dismissive of older players and rude/aggro and so they met it where they thought it was. Wasn’t the threads greatest moment but they all seemed to have more or less worked it out. chaoslord fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Mar 24, 2023 |
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Mar 24, 2023 12:37
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Leperflesh posted:for what? I took it as a joke about what happens in mafia games when you don’t set a deadline. In mafia games the stated question is always “who should be dunked?” and you have X days to do it, the deadline helps move things along somewhat. When the deadline for that is way too long or if one doesn’t get set things tend to go off the rails more often because a bunch of people want to seriously work toward an answer and others are thinking “we have a week to figure this out I can  for five days” and it can lead to butting of heads and such Here the question was “who should be IK/do we need an IK?” And with no deadline set the thread turned on itself for a bit lol
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Mar 24, 2023 12:41
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Toalpaz posted:Hahah yeah we argue and are stubborn because that's the game, out there *points outside*. Triple post and all that, but also well said friend toalpaz, and also I hope you stream more Tarkov soon chaoslord fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Mar 24, 2023 |
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Mar 24, 2023 12:44
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chaoslord posted:I took it as a joke about what happens in mafia games when you don’t set a deadline. In mafia games the stated question is always “who should be dunked?” and you have X days to do it, the deadline helps move things along somewhat. When the deadline for that is way too long or if one doesn’t get set things tend to go off the rails more often because a bunch of people want to seriously work toward an answer and others are thinking “we have a week to figure this out I can Also mafia players don't work without a deadline, it's not "we have 5 days to figure this out" and more "We have 4 days to go afk and 1 day to select a target in a panic" 
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Mar 24, 2023 12:49
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Leperflesh posted:for what? Leper I’ve watched you longpost and lay out arguments for years, back when it was your thing. You’d be s natural
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Mar 24, 2023 12:51
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Yami Fenrir posted:Also mafia players don't work without a deadline, it's not "we have 5 days to figure this out" and more "We have 4 days to go afk and 1 day to select a target in a panic" Don't forget the switch from one person to another in the last 10 minutes
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Mar 24, 2023 14:20
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Johnny Keats posted:What is wrong with saying "vote out"? VOLO is more catchy than EXLO VOLO works for what's now called LYLO, for MYLO it'd be... MVLO? "Misvote and lose"? MILO sounds better but kind of close to MYLO, maybe. We don't use lunch in games I think (it's usually "execute" or whatever flavor appropiate thing comes up) but I def use it informally at least. Moving from it seems like a very reasonable ask, tbh.
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Mar 24, 2023 14:28
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chaoslord posted:Some people perceived M2RR’s post as being dismissive of older players and rude/aggro and so they met it where they thought it was. Wasn’t the threads greatest moment but they all seemed to have more or less worked it out. I wouldn't really call that "worked it out". This thread has seriously sucked for the past days. From my point of view, a bunch of people who I'd never played with came in and started talking about how mafia was dead, how it had changed, and then attempted to order everybody around. The first person to complain about this was ganged up on. When people pointed this out, their concerns and that of the players who had contacted them were dismissed with stuff like "That's just how mafia is", "We've always talked like that", and so on. This is not okay. "Don't be a dick" is a ground rule for mafia games for a reason. We are playing games that require us to lie to and manipulate people due to their nature. I'm sure everybody here can attest to the fact that this can take a toll out of people, has led to friction in the past and will continue to do so in the future. It works out for the most part because of two things. One, that we all understand it's just a game. Two, because there are lines that we do not cross. Personal attacks. Antagonism. Actually being rude and hurting people's feelings. If someone tells you that you have crossed this line, apologize. I don't give a gently caress if you think you did nothing wrong and the other person is being a whiny pissbaby. I don't give a gently caress if you did nothing wrong and the other person is in fact being a whiny pissbaby. You stop, and you don't continue and you do not insist that you did nothing wrong and continue to do what you did before. The past pages of this thread are filled to the brim with people and situations that disregarded this and kept digging themselves in. I do not like this, and I do not want to play with these people. And I doubt I'm the only one. If you are new here, or if you are an older player who wants to return now, that's wonderful. Come hang out with us. If you're only here to stir up poo poo and create drama, go the gently caress away.
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Mar 24, 2023 14:29
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This is a really good post and I do think, sincerely, the vibe of mafia in 2023 is significantly different than it was in older times. If you are an older player coming back, it is important to recognize that if you're looking for a return to the 'mafia community' such that it was 4+ years ago, that level of shitposty nastiness seems to have long left the community along with the players that contributed to and tolerated it. That's not to say there aren't old players around who are and always have been on the more chill and respectful side, there absolutely are, but the energy around mafia changed significantly from when I was here in the late 2010s. It's a lot better now
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Mar 24, 2023 14:41
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Cloacamazing! posted:I wouldn't really call that "worked it out". I don't think making a master list of posters and saying "The following have not yet apologized and need to do so" is fruitful or helpful when the discussion has moved past it at this point, but what I meant by worked it out is the main two that I remember being involved, M2RR and Mr. F, both raised their hands to being in the wrong and apologized, and at least Capitalist Pig apologized, too. So to me, if the main parties involved have apologized and moved on, I consider that "more or less worked it out".
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Mar 24, 2023 14:42
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I do think an important item that's relevant here and does give me some concern about a hardline stance on backing off, is that that the involved Riven/IMG team used language to shut down complaints by establishing that the complainers crossed a line, were out of line, gas lighters, abusers, etc. So I do have a concern there.
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Mar 24, 2023 15:14
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CCKeane posted:I do think an important item that's relevant here and does give me some concern about a hardline stance on backing off, is that that the involved Riven/IMG team used language to shut down complaints by establishing that the complainers crossed a line, were out of line, gas lighters, abusers, etc. So I do have a concern there. This isn't something I considered when reading that post but would be of real concern to me.
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Mar 24, 2023 15:28
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CCKeane posted:I do think an important item that's relevant here and does give me some concern about a hardline stance on backing off, is that that the involved Riven/IMG team used language to shut down complaints by establishing that the complainers crossed a line, were out of line, gas lighters, abusers, etc. So I do have a concern there. Agreed, the whole thing there was that you couldn’t say poo poo because that wasn’t nice and would cause conflict. Personally I agree with snooze that it seems way less inviting when there are big posts about how people joining the thread are posting wrong. Like, is that me? Are you guys telling me to gently caress off? It sure feels like it, but I’d much prefer you just said it to me rather than post about how some posters need to gently caress off.
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Mar 24, 2023 15:32
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Edit: actually nah I'm just sick and grumpy, sorry
Green Wing fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Mar 24, 2023 |
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Mar 24, 2023 15:33
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CCKeane posted:I do think an important item that's relevant here and does give me some concern about a hardline stance on backing off, is that that the involved Riven/IMG team used language to shut down complaints by establishing that the complainers crossed a line, were out of line, gas lighters, abusers, etc. So I do have a concern there. This sucks heavily, it's way too common and it's the reason these kinda things should get, if not fully public, at least as many independent eyes on as possible, so legitimate complains and grievances don't get the gaslight treatment. I'd like to think we're trying to move in that direction collectively from those past days! I don't think Clo's post is going in the "people denouncing abuse should apologize if called out", tho, at all. I think she means poo poo like what went on here yesterday, which was a maf slapfight without the mafia part, and yeah, it looked aggro and rather bad for a bit, then people calmed down and apologized because the whole thing being argued wasn't really consequential. I think there are differences there, tbh.
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Mar 24, 2023 15:46
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Yeah that's always the difficulty with Mafia. There's being mean, and there's being mean, and being able to balance that good old jovial rudeness without actually being a dick can be tough.
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Mar 24, 2023 15:46
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I may have too cavalier an attitude about this, but can we just get back to playing informed minority versus uninformed majority games on the internet??? Geessshh. If anyone is ever sincerely hurt about something, address it with that individual, if it doesn't work out, take it up with a mod. If things go poorly with the mod, we can have a big powwow about it in a really eye-opening thread and make splinter discords because that's not weird at all, and it'll be cool. Life carries on as the grotesque horror that it is. And if you feel that I've crossed a line, by all means, please do tell me to gently caress off... not that I'll listen, but your point will come across just fine. Mafia isn't dead, but we are on the bloated corpse of an antiquated internet forum.
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Mar 24, 2023 15:53
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I think "Don't be a dick" does sum it up well, and it certainly has seemed like "be a dick" is what many of the legacy Mafia players thought Mafia was, and to that extent Mafia has been better since they have left, and I'm sad they are back. Honestly, interpreting "don't be a dick" as "but if I can't be a dick, I can't report sex pests creeping, because that's a dick move!" is loving outrageous.
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Mar 24, 2023 15:53
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Shellception posted:This sucks heavily, it's way too common and it's the reason these kinda things should get, if not fully public, at least as many independent eyes on as possible, so legitimate complains and grievances don't get the gaslight treatment. I'd like to think we're trying to move in that direction collectively from those past days! Right, I think it's important to flag it though since we want a robust system/philosophy that can include handling something like that. I do agree with this underlaying points for sure, and I think folks immediately getting aggressive and defensive, especially multiple people, was pretty bad. So a thing that I've seen and that has happened to me that's more in line with the other day is a situation where somebody says something in a rude way, somebody responds emotionally, and the emotional person is considered the one that crossed the line because it's more visible, even if the initial comments were rude or over the line. I do kinda think sometimes that it can flip to "the wronged person didn't respond correctly so they're the wrong one", and I would definitely like to prevent that. Opopanax posted:Yeah that's always the difficulty with Mafia. There's being mean, and there's being mean, and being able to balance that good old jovial rudeness without actually being a dick can be tough. I also do think this is relevant! People will have different tolerances for pressing/manipulating people and what they consider acceptable and game relevant, and I do think that's going to be challenging to figure out across the board.
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Mar 24, 2023 15:57
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I think a lot of it comes down to level of engagement with what other people are saying, too. Tone is one thing - yes, people can be nicer, less aggro, more polite, whatever. But I think there's a difference between that and feeling dismissed, and I think that part of the response yesterday is what made people uncomfortable. Certainly made me as someone not directly involved feel that way. You know, if someone is snippy and you think they are wrong or their post is bad, whatever - you can say that and talk about why you think they're wrong. That's fine. But I think one-liners that amount to "shut up, who are you, go away" are dismissive in a way simply being impolite isn't. This is particularly key given that the the whole Riven issue had a lot to do with people feeling their concerns were dismissed. It's not just that there were lines crossed, though there were, but that people felt their concerns were being ignored. Not just met with a rude response, but treated as if they didn't matter.
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Mar 24, 2023 15:57
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Sub Rosa posted:I think "Don't be a dick" does sum it up well, and it certainly has seemed like "be a dick" is what many of the legacy Mafia players thought Mafia was, and to that extent Mafia has been better since they have left, and I'm sad they are back. Right, so a major issue that happened recently is people felt that they couldn't talk openly about what happened because people called them dicks/abusers for raising the issue, and responded aggressively that they were crossing a line for discussing it with other players/raising the issue. This isn't a hypothetical situation, it's something that happened directly, right? I mean, honestly, I feel like throughout this I've been concerned about addressing/preventing the issues that arose elsewhere from happening again, and this feels really dismissive, right? Like, I'm using specific examples and concerns, and it's called loving outrageous, and I don't think that's fair.
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Mar 24, 2023 16:00
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