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Shanty posted:Alternatively: I like this better.
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Jan 25, 2016 20:41
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I meant fourth"
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Vintersorg posted:Anytime someone disagrees tho they are shouted down and declared crazy, like Tezzor. This thread is like a bizarre cult now. Anytime someone has the audacity to say that the prequels didn't have deep meaning in every single shot or that they were boring garbage they get shouted down for half a page or more. I mean, I can accept some of the suggested themes, like the Jedi being the "real" bad guys or whatever, but 90% of SMG/Cnut posts are reeeeeeally reaching.
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Jan 25, 2016 20:43
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Shanty posted:Alternatively: The problem is, there's a lot to say about themes and cinematography and blah, blah, blah, but the people who don't like the prequels seem to not like them for much more intuitive, less obvious reasons. There's just a kind of fundamental humanity that seems to be lacking. The characters don't resonate like people, but as ideological mouthpieces, which is great if you're looking to analyze the film's ideas, but not so great if you want to feel an emotional connection with what you're seeing on screen. I dunno, maybe that's just me, though.
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Jan 25, 2016 20:46
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Friendly Factory posted:This thread is like a bizarre cult now. Anytime someone has the audacity to say that the prequels didn't have deep meaning in every single shot or that they were boring garbage they get shouted down for half a page or more. I mean, I can accept some of the suggested themes, like the Jedi being the "real" bad guys or whatever, but 90% of SMG/Cnut posts are reeeeeeally reaching. And yet you keep coming back, even though I can probably link three threads just on SomethingAwful where you can go talk about how bad the PT is to your heart's content.
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Jan 25, 2016 20:48
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Shanty posted:Alternatively: Yeah, and it's interesting to hear opposing views. It's not interesting for every page to be filled with the same opposing view and having anyone who opposes the opposing view shaved, stripped and walked through the cobblestone streets.
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Jan 25, 2016 20:49
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Steve2911 posted:Yeah, and it's interesting to hear opposing views. It's not interesting for every page to be filled with the same opposing view and having anyone who opposes the opposing view shaved, stripped and walked through the cobblestone streets. Where is this happening to good posters? (Tezzor is not a good poster.)
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Jan 25, 2016 20:50
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Vintersorg posted:Anytime someone disagrees tho they are shouted down and declared crazy, like Tezzor. Tezzor was shouted beccause his posts were just random insults and had no interesting stuff in them.
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Jan 25, 2016 20:50
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cargohills posted:Tezzor is an idiot and anyone who reads his posts and does not realise that is also an idiot. It was sad, because there were moments of lucidity where it was like "wait, is he making a coherent point?" and then you know, no, he wasn't, he was just getting angry and making sweeping accusations.
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Jan 25, 2016 20:50
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MonsieurChoc posted:Tezzor was shouted beccause his posts were just random insults and had no interesting stuff in them. Tezzor was loving crazy, no doubt, but their posts did lead to some good conversations, like the dual nature of Cloud City and how it was expressed in the prequels through the clone/droid factories on Kamino and Geonosis.
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Jan 25, 2016 20:51
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Jan 25, 2016 20:52
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computer parts posted:And yet you keep coming back, even though I can probably link three threads just on SomethingAwful where you can go talk about how bad the PT is to your heart's content. Well I'd actually rather talk about and speculate about the ST instead of talking about the PT at all. But doing that in the thread dedicated to the ST gets you bombarded by how the ST sucks compared to the PT. But if we're actually going to discuss the PT, then discussion requires two sides, not one side talking and a bunch of yes men (this includes you!) backing them up when someone disagrees. Notice how you slinked off when I responded to your post in a clear and concise way? But  at thinking the thread belongs to your gang
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Jan 25, 2016 20:58
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Friendly Factory posted:This thread is like a bizarre cult now. Anytime someone has the audacity to say that the prequels didn't have deep meaning in every single shot or that they were boring garbage they get shouted down for half a page or more. I mean, I can accept some of the suggested themes, like the Jedi being the "real" bad guys or whatever, but 90% of SMG/Cnut posts are reeeeeeally reaching. See here's the thing though is that these posters you're ostensibly lumping into the "someone" with the "audacity to say that the prequels" etc etc tend to dismiss Cnut and SMG out-of-hand with some sort of general, folksy "ANYONE CAN SEE that the prequels are bad" without putting even a single ounce of thought into providing any insight into why Yes, Tezzor wrote a lot of paragraphs, but what he didn't do was provide any perspectives or thought on why the prequels were bad that drew upon the text. He offered his own feelings on the text, but didn't actually give anyone any worthwhile critique. Instead, he just kind insulted everyone and replied to insightful posts with "nah uh lol" I find this thread incredibly refreshing because I've never thought it was fair that the prequels have gotten dismissed as a matter of fact, and remarkably in this thread, dismissing the prequels seems to require evidence and thought as opposed to an appeal to a sort of general cultural statement like "everyone agrees the prequels are bad" In essence I think what you're picking up on is people coming into the thread expecting to find everyone who agrees that the prequels are bad and then finding very interesting posts to the contrary that they don't know how to rebut, so they lash out and/or think everyone is trolling
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Jan 25, 2016 21:01
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Phylodox posted:The problem is, there's a lot to say about themes and cinematography and blah, blah, blah, but the people who don't like the prequels seem to not like them for much more intuitive, less obvious reasons. There's just a kind of fundamental humanity that seems to be lacking. The characters don't resonate like people, but as ideological mouthpieces, which is great if you're looking to analyze the film's ideas, but not so great if you want to feel an emotional connection with what you're seeing on screen. I think there's a general consensus in this thread that the prequels are lacking in acting and dialogue (SMG's more tedious maneuver's aside), but it's possible to acknowledge that and still laud them for their other qualities. They are interesting, flawed films. It's fine to disagree on the latter as well (their possible good points) but so far the posters doing so haven't really engaged in an interesting and critical way with the ideas that the prequel boosters are presenting to them. And it's not like people who like the prequels in this thread are necessarily all in agreement, I'm not sure anyone is willing to go as far as SMG in exculpating every piece of clumsy Lucasian dialogue. They're free to do so, but I don't have any desire or feel any pressing need to assent to a view of the prequel trilogy as a depressingly ironic and cynical reversal of the OT in which every element has been conceived to remind you that "the Force is a piece of poo poo that clings to you." Probably the best thing to come out of this thread is forcing people to actually look at the Star Wars films critically, as actual self contained movies, when they've been obscured by their own penumbra of merchandising, "iconic scenes", pop culture, and RLM for literal decades at this point. e: adam driver kind of looks like andy samberg in that getup
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Jan 25, 2016 21:01
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Friendly Factory posted:But if we're actually going to discuss the PT, then discussion requires two sides, not one side talking and a bunch of yes men (this includes you!) backing them up when someone disagrees. Strangely this only applies when people are defending the PT. When people are just saying "yeah the PT is poo poo" it's perfectly fine for that to go unchallenged.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:02
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computer parts posted:Strangely this only applies when people are defending the PT. Wow you're right. I forgot I said that.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:03
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Friendly Factory posted:Wow you're right. I forgot I said that. It's okay, I got your back.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:04
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Complaints about 'unfairness' betray an indifference to the truth. Do not be deceived.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:07
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computer parts posted:It's okay, I got your back. I respect you more after this post SuperMechagodzilla posted:Complaints about 'unfairness' betray an indifference to the truth. I think Cnut's posts can be tedious, but I really do genuinely enjoy reading your posts. Even if I think you're wrong a lot, you have a sense of humour.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:07
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PBS Newshour posted:i just like cnut's posts, they are just fun, i still think the prequels are poo poo though. This is the way to go. Listen, there's some neat stuff in the prequels, and some good solid themes underneath some bad acting and repetitive/chore-ish plot points. They're not fun to sit through, especially those involving Jar-Jar, romance, political discussion, and so on. Have we seen someone saying they're great films, or that they're actually better than TFA? Cause them would be fightin' words.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:13
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TFA is a not particularly good movie and the main argument for it seems to be that it ticks the boxes, which is fine but feeble. That's why there isn't too much to talk about.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:14
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Red posted:This is the way to go. They're better than TFA. vvv I like TFA also.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:14
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Yeah my take is that TFA is good and fun, but so are roller coasters and what more is there really once you peel back the "fun" layer (I like TFA)
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Jan 25, 2016 21:15
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Ugh, people dont like it? That totally offends me!!!
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Jan 25, 2016 21:16
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All of the Star Wars movies are really good, TFA included. I used to think the PT was strictly inferior to the OT, but after watching all the movies again and keeping up with this thread I appreciate them a lot more for how all 6 of the old movies inform and complement each other.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:19
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TFA is fun and has a different dynamic than the other six. But I am worried that they'll feel the need to "rhyme" more in the sequels. I'm fine with TFA being a pseudo-ANH, but the sequels need to expand more from that formula. I don't want a pseudo-ESB. I can see someone not liking TFA for that reason, though.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:22
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I feel like the original trilogy was the best combination of story, character, fun, imagery, themes, ideas, etc. In the prequels, it feels like it shifted more towards themes, ideas, and images, leaving the character, story, and fun feeling lacking. The sequel trilogy seems to be focusing more on character and fun, with less emphasis on imagery and ideas or themes. I can see why people who preferred the prequels might find that dismaying. Fortunately for me, that suits me just fine.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:27
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But keep in mind that before we get a home release it's difficult to analyze a film. TFA has some interesting shots that people have noticed already, like the light on Kylo's face in the Han death scene, but more will surely come.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:33
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Red posted:This is the way to go. Well look, you're being very one dimensional here. Anyone can watch a film and say "I felt this way about it", that is what they felt and it is not wrong or whatever, it's just their reaction. Judging a movie based just on that is ok I guess, but what it lacks is introspective. Do you understand why you feel that way about the movie? When you ask that question, it takes film from being a simple activity of seeking pleasure and turns it into personal journey into some really loving big questions about your self. This is the whole point of art. Art is a reflection of life. A reflection of the self. Art is a conversation between you and the work and the creator. The medium through which the conversation is conferred is what art is. It is a way of saying things which are un-sayable. How can I communicate the feelings I have when I cannot fully put them in a way that I can understand them in my own head? You do it through art. And film is just one way through which the incomprehensible is communicated in an entirely comprehensible way. Ideas like love, hate, sadness, joy, are all of these. You cannot know what a person is feeling, as in truly know it as they know it themselves. But through art we can share these feelings in a way that is infinite in its applicability. So to get back down to it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZwhNFOn4ik
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Jan 25, 2016 21:39
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TFA had the right idea, it just needed to be in the oven a bit longer, to have a hungrier director than JJ, and to not be the vanguard of a multibillion dollar media and merchandising effort predicated on nostalgia. Edit: The prequels also had the right idea, they just needed to not be directed by an old weirdo like Lucas (which was why he tried to have Opie direct them). porfiria fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 21:51
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Force Awakens is not actually fun anyways. That's one of the larger misconceptions. The fun of the Force Awakens cultural phenomenon comes from the hype generated through the marketing - all the speculation, searching for clues in the trailers, etc. The film itself exists only to temporarily satisfy the desire to know more, before we immediately move on to the hype for the next film's ability to generate hype for the next film's ability.... Basic example: nobody actually cares about Rey being abandonned. That's not fun. They are instead hyped up with speculation as to who the parents actually are. Snoke is just an old guy in a chair. Nobody gives a gently caress; he's not fun. However, there is rampant speculation as to whether Snoke is secretly Darth Plagueous, or the zombified remains of Peter Cushing, or whatever. That's why the film does not actually generate discussion, while the prequel films deliver in spades.
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Jan 25, 2016 22:00
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SHISHKABOB posted:Well look, you're being very one dimensional here. Anyone can watch a film and say "I felt this way about it", that is what they felt and it is not wrong or whatever, it's just their reaction. Judging a movie based just on that is ok I guess, but what it lacks is introspective. Do you understand why you feel that way about the movie? When you ask that question, it takes film from being a simple activity of seeking pleasure and turns it into personal journey into some really loving big questions about your self. This is the whole point of art. Art is a reflection of life. A reflection of the self. Art is a conversation between you and the work and the creator. The medium through which the conversation is conferred is what art is. It is a way of saying things which are un-sayable. How can I communicate the feelings I have when I cannot fully put them in a way that I can understand them in my own head? You do it through art. And film is just one way through which the incomprehensible is communicated in an entirely comprehensible way. Ideas like love, hate, sadness, joy, are all of these. You cannot know what a person is feeling, as in truly know it as they know it themselves. But through art we can share these feelings in a way that is infinite in its applicability. Uh, yeah. TFA is a fantastically fun film that has substance to it. It's crowd-pleasing while having meat on the bones. It was what I wanted a Star Wars sequel to be, and has me much more interested in Star Wars than I have been for 20 years. By contrast, after seeing TPM, I went home and stopped thinking/caring about Star Wars. It was just a movie that underwhelmed me, and I forgot about the next day. I didn't even see AOTC in theaters, and didn't talk to people about those movies, buy any of the crap, etc. I'm enjoying Star Wars again. I think that's a good thing. And it's because I find TFA to be a fun film. Promotion of discussion/thought is a pretty good by-product of a film.
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Jan 25, 2016 22:02
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back to ChewieChat, from what I understand he is mostly now played by Joonas Suotamo, a 7 foot Finnish basketball player/actor. Peter Mayhew has Marfan's and can barely walk these days, so I think it's only him when sitting or standing. I would guess most of the fighting scenes on Takodana and Starkiller Base are Soutamo. Also interesting is that Kenny Baker has been replaced by Jimmy Vee as R2D2. Baker is just a consultant for the role these days. Nobody "played" R2D2 in TFA, because he's kind of just under a sheet the whole movie, but Jimmy Vee will be in EpVIII. It's obviously a good idea to phase in some new actors for these roles.
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Jan 25, 2016 22:02
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Friendly Factory posted:But keep in mind that before we get a home release it's difficult to analyze a film. TFA has some interesting shots that people have noticed already, like the light on Kylo's face in the Han death scene, but more will surely come. Repeated viewings definitely help, like re-reading a book, but we don't need to wait, we can start analyzing now and add to or even completely change our thoughts later with new insights  Unfortunately, repeated viewings of Force Awakens will almost certainly reinforce it's status as the lamest of the Star Wars (so far at least). I'm pretty disappointed in Abrams, perhaps he felt the need to hold back and not do anything weird or crazy. Hope he rebounds with Star Trek Beyond. Ok, I will try to think of interesting things that stood out to me . . it's star war after all. Um, I found Kylo's sympathy for others bizarrely endearing. He knows he really can't blame others for his parents getting divorced! And so despite wanting to follow Vader, he can't even bring himself to kill his minions when they fail. Finn's reluctance to kill non-combatants? He notices, but chooses not to call attention to it, he's been there too. That dumb officer who brings him bad news? Shouldn't chop him up, it's not his fault he's just doing his job! The other thing that comes to mind is how Han and Leia and Luke and the whole galaxy have regressed. It's super bleak - while the rebels managed to topple the empire, they failed to restore a just republic, and now the galaxy is basically just warring kingdoms fighting over scraps. Red posted:TFA is a fantastically fun film that has substance to it. It's crowd-pleasing while having meat on the bones. It's a weak-rear end soup
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Jan 25, 2016 22:25
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Force Awakens is not actually fun anyways. That's one of the larger misconceptions. I believe this is 100% true, and of course is nothing new -- it is in keeping with the serial origins of Star Wars and old-tymey literal cliffhangers anyway.
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Jan 25, 2016 22:25
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Tender Bender posted:Like how can you read this and say "yes I want to read three posts per page of this guy yammering on about how he doesn't understand anything a movie for children is blatantly spelling out for him"? It's less that he doesn't understand, rather he doesn't -want- to understand. I can't blame someone for wanting a universe they grew up with to end on a happy and stagnant note. The important thing to remember is that there are still two more movies; Star Wars will not end with a coma and the death of a beloved protagonist.
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Jan 25, 2016 22:28
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Black Bones posted:It's a weak-rear end soup I have a cousin who's disappointed with it, and I'm really not clear why, and he can't really put his finger on it, besides saying: "Hopefully, they'll get it right now that the fanservice is out of the way." TFA is a good and fun movie. I can't comprehend people walking out of the theater being unhappy. 
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Jan 25, 2016 22:28
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Red posted:Uh, yeah. Yeah what I'm saying is you're a shallow idiot who just wants to be fed pleasurable senses into your brain all the time. You claim the movie has "meat on the bones" but what the gently caress does that actually mean? What are you talking about when it comes to the movie? I haven't seen it so I can't say one way or another, but apparently the only thing you cared about was "it was what I wanted it to be". What a loving pathetic thing to say about a goddamn work of art that had hundreds of human hearts poured into it over the course of some years. Blah blah blah yeah that's what you want ok ok I get it. That is entirely right, you absolutely have the right to just want to be entertained sometimes and not "think too hard", whatever that actually means. The loving point is that don't be a pissy bitch when people point out new perspectives that you haven't looked down. gently caress it's not even about agreeing or not with the perspective. Just loving traveling the path and trying to understand it will make you more of a loving human being. You will grow in your understanding of your self and your understanding of others. Fucknuts.  I'm sorry, I went on a tangent there that nothing to do with poster Red. SHISHKABOB fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 22:30
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I liked the beholder aliens rolling around Han's junker ship
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Jan 25, 2016 22:31
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Red posted:I have a cousin who's disappointed with it, and I'm really not clear why, and he can't really put his finger on it, besides saying: "Hopefully, they'll get it right now that the fanservice is out of the way." Really? There are a lot of people in the thread articulating quite well what they were unhappy with in TFA.
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Jan 25, 2016 22:31
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I recall, earlier in one of these threads, someone complaining that Yoda's swordfight is so goofy that it's almost like it's supposed to be funny(!). In fact, he was horrified that the audience in his theatre was laughing at what was 'obviously supposed to be' a very serious and dramatic fight scene. You have a good memory. That was me, but I wasn't horrified at the audience response. I was horrified at how ridiculous it looked and sounded (with the flipping around, and the Miss Piggy 'YAAR' screams and grunts), because yes-- it looked like it was meant to be funny, to me. You explained that it absolutely WAS meant to be funny-- Count Dracula fighting a muppet. Still, to this day, I just cannot see it that way, my friend. I cannot envision any reason why Lucas or anyone else would want to play that scene for laughs.
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