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After that story and finding out what's the deal with the Dredge, how could you not try to help at least one helpless child?
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Jul 20, 2014 17:46
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Just caught up and jesus  some serious revelations there. Like another poster said, I guessed the whole migration thing but never considered the idea that there were female dredge, or that they were being used as slingers to our woman archers in a similar manner of desperation.I like to think it may be possible at this state to consider diplomacy and cooperation but a lot of blood has been spilt on both sides...and, if Iver murdering Bellower's wife and child is true, then their leader is of the mind to wipe us all out anyway. Things are pretty hosed right now...and we haven't even dealt with this "darkness" scaring the dredge away yet.
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Jul 20, 2014 18:44
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Roman Reigns posted:Just caught up and jesus I'm guessing most of the Dredge could care less about anything other than running the gently caress away from the Complete Existential Failure of the World creeping down from the North. But Bellower is some kind of demigod to them, so if he says "butcher everything in our way AND ESPECIALLY THAT loving VARL!"… well, they do it. Not like the Varl and Humans would listen to them anyway and at least with Bellower around, they don't die so quickly. I'm guessing that, should Bellower be put out of commission, most Dredge would just go "… Welp, gently caress this. South we go."
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Jul 20, 2014 19:46
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Also, I'm not convinced that humans/varl and dredge have the ability to communicate with each other, let alone the inclination.
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Jul 20, 2014 20:04
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I think the only chance at diplomacy might lie in Iver strolling out to meet Bellower, tossing down his weapon, and baring his throat. Eye for an eye and all that. Also I hope that the dredge baby survives and crops up in the sequel as a recruitable character.
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Jul 20, 2014 20:36
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So yeah, congrats, Iver may be the reason the Dredge are as hell bent on murder as they are. Previous wars nothing, they're out for blood and anyone's blood that stands by him.
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Jul 20, 2014 21:30
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I'd also like to point out that the implication is that there are Sundr other than Bellower. What they're doing, where they are, we don't know, but Eyvind talked about them like they were small group. Probably more than just Bellower and Raze. We just have the misfortune of one having a really good loving reason to chase Iver to the ends of the earth. The other Sundr, I would guess, are either A) Leading other groups of Dredge south in a less (deliberately) murderous fashion or B) Were killed by the Existential Threat of the North
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Jul 20, 2014 22:18
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TAKE THE BABY
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Jul 20, 2014 23:45
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ProfessorProf posted:Also, I'm not convinced that humans/varl and dredge have the ability to communicate with each other, let alone the inclination. Weren't dredge created by a god specifically to give humans and varls an eternal enemy to stop the two from fighting all the time? I don't think peace will ever be an option.
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Jul 20, 2014 23:57
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Space Bat posted:Weren't dredge created by a god specifically to give humans and varls an eternal enemy to stop the two from fighting all the time? I don't think peace will ever be an option. Hey, the gods are dead! We don't have to do what they want anymore, right?
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Jul 21, 2014 00:04
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I would really appreciate some general lore posts at some point. I like what I've heard so far.
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Jul 21, 2014 00:46
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Oh Baby. It's nice that people were able to predict/pick up on that the dredge were running from something, I dunno about this whole Bellower/Raze star-crossed romance thing though, seems a bit melodramatic and Iver's motives were tied up perfectly with the last scene as-is. Here's hoping it's wrong/unimportant.
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Jul 21, 2014 00:48
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It's more that it would explain why the Dredge seem to really, REALLY hate the group with Iver in it.
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Jul 21, 2014 00:49
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Uh, they really seem to be treating every not-Dredge pretty equally, if you ask me.
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Jul 21, 2014 00:57
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Bellower is targeting Iver in specific. Or at least, that is what Iver believes and it seems to hold up. I'm not entirely convinced 'Raze is his lover' theory.
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Jul 21, 2014 01:29
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For all we know, Bellower may in fact be that Dredge baby Raze was caring for.
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Jul 21, 2014 02:11
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Iver killed that baby so I doubt it.
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Jul 21, 2014 02:13
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Stone baby Goku
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Jul 21, 2014 02:18
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Or Bellower could just be pissed that a Sundr was killed the same way anyone would be pissed that a hero of their people was killed. I mean, I like the "Iver killed Bellower's wife and son" interpretation, but it's not definitive.
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Jul 21, 2014 02:19
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Space Bat posted:Weren't dredge created by a god specifically to give humans and varls an eternal enemy to stop the two from fighting all the time? I don't think peace will ever be an option. I don't recall if that was the intent so much as the outcome. paragon1 posted:Uh, they really seem to be treating every not-Dredge pretty equally, if you ask me. Negative. Bellower circled around Einartoft specifically to chase Rook's group. Iver is the only person in the group he'd plausibly have it out for.
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Jul 21, 2014 02:26
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Or eyvind, since menders are strong as poo poo and until iver killed a sundr, menders were the only real threats. Plus eyvind makes a spectacle of himself on the bridge before bellowed comes and wrecks iver.
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Jul 21, 2014 02:32
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tomanton posted:It's nice that people were able to predict/pick up on that the dredge were running from something The game literally told us this. ProfessorProf posted:
Multiple times, even. ProfessorProf posted:
No prediction about it.
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Jul 21, 2014 03:45
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It was vague, sounded like that serpent was supposed to swallow the world. Instead, some kind of darkness or nothingness is seeping from the north. It devours whatever it touches.
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It was predicted in this thread well before it was said. Pretty early, if I remember.
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Jul 21, 2014 03:51
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I suggested it around the time the giant serpent showed up.
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Jul 21, 2014 04:33
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Ahh, my bad! I must have missed that part of the thread.
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Jul 21, 2014 04:35
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Weird question, because I've never tried before: Can't you leave Einartoft without waiting for Iver to recover? If you do, is there an explanation for Bellower following you? I've never left Iver behind.
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Jul 21, 2014 09:32
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bewilderment posted:Weird question, because I've never tried before: Can't you leave Einartoft without waiting for Iver to recover? If you do, is there an explanation for Bellower following you? I've never left Iver behind. Chewbot said earlier that you didn't leave Iver behind, I think. He probably would have just woken up on the road and the game would have progressed as normal.
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Jul 21, 2014 10:22
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So I just caught up with the thread, and now I'm sad I never grabbed the Banner Saga when it first came out, since it seems genuinely cool. I read a couple of reviews that said two things that turned me off it, despite my initial interest: #1: The battles get incredibly same-ish, relatively fast. Not being the one who's playing the game, it looks like we get new characters with new abilities that change things up every so often, along with new enemy setups, which keeps things relatively fresh, but does it get a bit repetitive, I'd ask our LP'er? #2: A lot of your choices don't really matter and don't get brought up again, all they do is affect your clansman/fighter/varl/supply numbers and then get forgotten. I can kind of see a bit of this... but again, without knowing literally every possible option and result, it's hard to tell if simply a lot of the bad choices that would lead to future terrible repercussions have been avoided. It does kind of feel like the... supply management is a bit tacked-on? So far it doesn't feel like there have REALLY been any tough supply-based decisions, and numbers of Varl/Fighters/Clansmen seem kind of... irrelevant? Again, I guess I'm asking our LP'er how much you can actually change with all these choices(aside from some differences in recruiting), and whether the management subgame actually has more challenge than it seems, and how much it matters. Sorry if I'm asking stuff that's already been asked/answered, but outside of the last couple of pages, I've really only read ProfProf's main posts.
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Jul 21, 2014 12:43
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PurpleXVI posted:So I just caught up with the thread, and now I'm sad I never grabbed the Banner Saga when it first came out, since it seems genuinely cool. I read a couple of reviews that said two things that turned me off it, despite my initial interest: Prof Prof has been sacrificing his heroes' levels and not buying gear in order to max out supplies at every opportunity. I didn't do this, and found myself agonizing pretty frequently over whether to rest/take slow options on events and lose clansmen to starvation or to push forward and end up in fights with very poor morale.
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Jul 21, 2014 12:59
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Space Bat posted:Weren't dredge created by a god specifically to give humans and varls an eternal enemy to stop the two from fighting all the time? I don't think peace will ever be an option. The cliff notes version is this: All of the gods existed in the tapestry (the universe visualized as a mobius strip of fabric of intersecting threads made from raw elements) as equals, amusing themselves with making lights and clay and so forth. The Loom-mother (as the first humans called her) stumbled upon creating life. She practiced a long time before inevitably other gods found out, and they all wanted in. She offered to teach them, but most were not as skilled or as patient. Some took her creations and started mashing them together, making varl, horseborn and other creatures. Some roamed the world or interacted with her creations for the novelty of it. Meanwhile, this created a schism in the hierarchy of the gods- whereas before you had relative equals, now you had some who could create life and others who could not, splintering them into cliques. The creations, of course, have no idea why they exist (the real reason basically being 'because the gods were bored'- but nobody wants to believe that), and would often fight each other for survival. One of the gods (called the Jealous God) saw this, took mankind and made the dredge, hiding them deep within the world. He built an entire army over time, specifically to gently caress with the Loom-mother, whom he hated. When they were unleashed upon the Loom-mother's creations, she turned on the jealous god, accidentally killing him- as she had learned to create life, she had also learned to unmake it. This was a new concept which terrified the gods and, inevitably, led to an arms-race in which paranoia caused them all to kill each other. Down on the planet, the creations watched what must have looked like stars exploding, and then silence. The gods are completely dead, but their creations survived. As for their creations, the first people were called "Valka", and they were taught by the Loom-mother herself. They were terribly powerful, but their potency has been diminishing with each generation. Juno is one of the modern Valka. Seeing the death of the gods and fearing their own mortality (and little hope for an afterlife), the Valka devised a way to "live on". During their heydey, they created the Long Banner, which was a physical banner the head mender sewed into the tapestry itself. The idea is that as long as the tapestry exists, so will some record of mankind's existence. It's a historical document that writes itself, impartially recording the most important events as they occur and many people have gotten it into their head that they must do something worthy enough to appear on the Long Banner. It resides in the capital at Arberrang and there's a whole order of menders tasked with taking care of it and trying to interpret what it writes. A strand of thread from the Long Banner was given to each clan and sewn into their banners so that these banners would also survive the ravishes of time, though these lesser banners were left to be written by their owners. It thus became that sewing your own history into your clan's banner became vitally important as a record of your existence. Clans could add or remove their banner from other clans as they pleased, making it a symbol of power and an important part of the political process. In game terms, there will be a lot more about the Long Banner in the next game but it's referenced a couple of times in the first. Also worth noting, out of sheer necessity and coincidence, Rook's small town of Strand has happened to amass quite a following sewn to his Banner. We haven't explicitly stated a lot of this in-game (trying to parcel it out to avoid fiction overload) but it's not really a spoiler, and it's relatively common knowledge in the world itself. Chewbot fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 21:41
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Chewbot posted:The cliff notes version is this: Has this exposition been revealed in any official works, or did my LP just become viral marketing for Banner Saga 2? 
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Jul 21, 2014 21:49
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The chieftain of Strand said that his grandfather watched the Gods die, so that was about 80-100 years ago? It's been awhile since there were Gods, yes?
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Jul 21, 2014 21:58
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ProfessorProf posted:Has this exposition been revealed in any official works, or did my LP just become viral marketing for Banner Saga 2? Pretty sure you're the first! Night10194 posted:The chieftain of Strand said that his grandfather watched the Gods die, so that was about 80-100 years ago? It's been awhile since there were Gods, yes? It's only been about one generation, and any varl who are alive (obviously) was around when the gods died since they were made before that happened. Been a little while, but not that long. The actual numbers get a bit fuzzy. Chewbot fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 22:00
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Interesting. I've been wondering, too, how the gods all died. There's something I find appealing in the anti-climax that they did indeed kill each other out of fear. It still seems like the dredge can't really be reasoned with, at least not as we would think. That's why I almost feel like taking the child might be a trap in the long run, maybe not even in this game. After all, if no choice is ever black and white then maybe taking the baby dredge isn't as obvious as we may initially assume. Then again, maybe I'm just Brian Jacques.
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Jul 21, 2014 22:19
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 You argue strongly for showing mercy an humanity. Some of the women in the caravan hesitantly agree to take in the dredge infant, while others are furious about bringing it along. Not long afterwards, one of the women comes to you. "Its swaddling was being held by this," she says, giving you a hair pin that looks distinctly un-dredge-like. An inscription on the silver almost slips your notice: persevere. "From the goddess herself, if you ask me," the woman tells you.  For the record: This reduced morale, but we're already pretty much at zero there. If we put it to a vote, the caravan leaves it here, but alive. If we argue to leave it behind, some varl kill it. If we don't get involved, a few women take it up of their own volition, but are isolated from the rest of the caravan.  Day 95. Morale is terrible.  The Brooch is a great item, reducing all Strength damage by 1. I give it to Krumr.  Uh oh. What now?   No, I'd rather be known for not dying. Don't even know what you're worried about. I did this a hundred times in the great wars. Take some warriors, plough head first into the dredge. They follow you into the hills, get lost, now they're not following you. When you did this "a hundred times", did they have Bellower leading them? Have you never heard about the time I hit Bellower in the head with a throwing axe? Careful, my friend. A lot of old history getting thrown around here. The warriors were just noting that there's a drat good number of dredge on our asses. Bellower puling up the rear. This one thinks he can just wander up there and throw them off our tracks. How about some gratitude? Thought you'd be happy to finally be the oldest varl in the land, Ubin. I'm never happy to lose more varl, Krumr.  Comments like that remind me, I've already wasted too much time doing nothing. In the old days, I'd already be halfway to the battlefield by now. Speaking of which... You coming, Yngvar? You could ask Bellower for your arm back. Don't think so. Not exactly in the mood right now. Alright, then. I'll tell Hadrborg you said hello.Krumr and a good many varl warriors head out toward the growing army of dredge. -40 Varl  Is he going to come back? He always has before. But this time feels different, I fear. Day 96. We're down to single-digit supply days again.  On the plus side, we're nearly there.  -1 Clansmen  A healer joins you in inspecting the young girl's corpse. "An old infection," says the healer. "No punctures, no choking, no poison. She died of disease." You report the news to the caravan. The mother admits that she had always known her daughter was ill, and everyone moves on.  I wonder if we're going to hear from--  +36 Varl "Did the plan work?" asks Ubin. "Work?" responds Krumr. "Of course it worked. Same old dredge. Should be another day or two at least before they even find their own asses." +20 Renown "And if you apologize, I'll tell you how I found these," Krumr says, tossing you a pair of leather gloves that look big enough for a varl. He leans in close, whispering so Ubin can't hear; "Had something to do with a raven's nest and a hair tie."  Good news! Loot! Renown! Morale went up a step!  Hilariously, the only person around who can wield the mighty rear end-kicking gloves is Eyvind.  Most of the new Renown goes into Krumr again, increasing his Strength to murderous heights.  On the 96th day, morale immediately tanks again. But hey! We're nearly there!    Well, I must admit, I've seen worse.  "No," says Eyvind, looking frantic. "Where is he?" He runs to the front of the caravan, looking out over the water. Juno isn't here, and you get the creeping feeling you're not welcome, either. Going upriver looks out of the question. The beach is bare, aside from the occasional skeleton of a ruined fishing boat. You reluctantly set up camp in the sinking town.  While taking stock of the caravan, you've inadvertently walked into a debate between Oddleif and Eyvind.  As long as we need to. And I think we need to get out of here. I don't feel good about this place. Why? What's wrong? Something doesn't feel right. The people here are staring at us like those vultures in the wastes. I'm sorry, Eyvind. I think Oddleif is right. I saw a man... the whole time we were setting up he was just watching me. Uh... in a creepy way. And how long before the dredge find us here? Juno will come. Just give it a little more time. Rook, listen to me, I need you to trust me on this. Well, let's talk to him about that.  What? Oh, Juno. Worried doesn't begin to describe it. If she doesn't find us here, or... something has happened to her... Are you sure what you saw was real? It could have been a dream, or, I don't know. You were pretty exhausted. I... I don't know. To be honest, I'm not sure any more. Everything is a blur. Erm, don't tell the others I said that. I have to hope it wasn't just a dream. Being a mender? I guess I never really thought about it like that. It's just part of me. They knew very young that I would join the order. Born into it, you could say. My mother and father, both menders. The guild is for lots of people now. Builders and healers. Do they all pull lightning out of the sky? No, no that's... not normal. It's one of the reasons I know Juno. She's one of the council. She helps me control things like this. So we don't end up scaring people... Well, the hardest part is usually seeing the threads. Everything is part of the tapestry, it's made of threads woven together. If you can see the threads, you can manipulate them. I don't know how to explain it, really. It's like trying to play a harp with invisible strings. Look at my staff, for example. Some menders carve intricate patterns in the wood to help them remember the shapes of... er, like I said. Hard to explain. I saw Grofheim as it burned. Eyvind gets a far away look in his eyes. The Sundr blew through it like a tempest, the varl fell in the thousands. Most of the Sundr left the city and headed south. Who knows where they are now. They might be destroying every town they come to, or heading toward Arberrang. Bellower stayed in Grofheim, just for the sport of it, I think. As we fled to Einartoft, I thought he must want to wipe the varl off the map completely. But then he came after us. Maybe he knew Iver was the one who killed Raze. Maybe, but I... let's just make sure he doesn't catch up. I... I don't know what to think. I wish I could give you a better answer. Even if we escape the dredge, that serpent said a darkness was covering the world. I don't know how long that will take. Or what it means, even. I'm just trying to solve one problem at a time. The menders are in Arberrang. If we can find ships and make it to the capital, we might have a chance. No, it's okay, Rook. I appreciate the talk. It's good to stay grounded. I spend all day worrying about serpents or Sundr. I think a lot of people are intimidated, or scared, maybe. Of me. Don't worry. It's nothing new. I'm used to it. Maybe some time we can talk about things that don't include the world ending. Once again, I give up every item for more supplies. It nets us three days.  So. Juno might be coming, or she might not. Bellower draws nearer every day, and the locals don't seem too friendly, either. Every night we stay here, we tempt death. If we leave, we may never meet our savior. Do we stay or do we leave?
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Jul 21, 2014 23:30
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Leave I think she's dead. I mean, didn't the woman he was with die at that fort?
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Jul 21, 2014 23:43
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Stay What the gently caress else are we going to do?Night10194 posted:I think she's dead. I mean, didn't the woman he was with die at that fort? Except for the part where she got back up again and had a conversation with a giant serpent, yeah.
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Jul 21, 2014 23:45
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Stay. Juno is almost certainly dead, but if she isn't, then we need to meet her. If she is, then there's little point in continuing on, anyway.
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Jul 21, 2014 23:47
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paragon1 posted:Except for the part where she got back up again and had a conversation with a giant serpent, yeah. Coulda saved a lot of trouble if we'd just brought her corpse with us, I think. Stay because Juno seems like a cool lady and I'd like to believe that Eyvind is, in fact, having magical dream-conversations with his dead girlfriend instead of just going crazy.
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Jul 21, 2014 23:48
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Wait for a couple days. Juno seems pretty special, and is probably worth the wait.
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Jul 21, 2014 23:50
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