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  Switch from 10-pack on right, bought individually on left. Not sure you can make it out in those pics, but it actually kind of looks like someone bent off the ground screw "lip" - the metal is a touch sharper and the edge looks distressed. The thing is, as I remember it (this was 6+ weeks ago) the whole box was like that. I went up and down the aisle looking for one with the screw. I'll get the right ones somewhere. These aren't being installed for some weeks still.
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Oct 16, 2020 01:09
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Oh my God, they're real. https://www.leviton.com/en/products/1451-wcp
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Oct 16, 2020 01:23
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Hello DIYers! We have a new forum/mod feedback thread and would love to hear your thoughts! https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3944213 Get ready to read this message 15 more times in every thread you read!
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Oct 16, 2020 01:28
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kid sinister posted:Oh my God, they're real. https://www.leviton.com/en/products/1451-wcp
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Oct 16, 2020 01:30
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No loving way. That literally looks like they cut off the ground tab. Like, it's identical except for that. It looks like they physically cut it off at some point during manufacturing, meaning they added step(s) to make this happen. I guess over 1000s of units you'll eventually recover the cost of that step once you consider the cost of the screw and the recycling value of the piece? But from an engineering perspective, they spent probably tens of thousands of dollars in engineering and tooling to make that happen. Not to mention the added tooling upkeep and maintenance costs of that step. Is there some weird code thing where having the ground screw means you MUST ground it? Because I refuse to believe that this was worth someone's time to do. edit: loving hell. Inventory is expensive. BOM maintenance is expensive. Having 2 separate part numbers that are nearly identical is WAY loving expensive. This is not cost effective in any way, shape, or form, unless there is some stupid reason that this part number MUST exist. As an engineer who works in manufacturing, this bugs the poo poo out of me. DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Oct 16, 2020 |
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Oct 16, 2020 01:38
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DaveSauce posted:No loving way. More like millions of units I would assume given the total unit cost wholesale. That's insane. https://www.leviton.com/en/products/1451-wcp Non-grounding. And apparently Canada doesn't require it under circumstances. (expand the information below.)
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Oct 16, 2020 01:50
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Maybe there's a region/municipality that requires that anything with an available ground terminal must be connected to ground. So the only way to legally replace devices in old houses without running new wire is to buy ones that don't have ground connections?
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Oct 16, 2020 02:26
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I think the idea is ground wire into the metal box is tied to a screw, and the switch is screwed into the box, so it's grounded. This would not be allowed in a plastic box I think?
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Oct 16, 2020 02:47
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Jenkl posted:I think the idea is ground wire into the metal box is tied to a screw, and the switch is screwed into the box, so it's grounded. Not allowed in a plastic box, not allowed on a metal box in the US either (NEC requires all devices to be bonded) TBQH, when I worked commercial, I thought it was pretty stupid to have to make a pigtail with a million wires to ground the box AND all the devices in it.
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Oct 16, 2020 03:27
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STR posted:Have an electrician go into the panel and unfuck the neutrals and grounds. It'll be a lot less than $75k (or a fire claim). I will check everything with a non contact tester then a multimeter before touching it and bail if I'm not 100% sure about anything.
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Oct 16, 2020 16:47
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GWBBQ posted:I unfucked the reversed hot and neutral wires a few years ago. I just looked in the panel (no, it doesn't have a cover, why do you ask?)and several things were done very badly. Can't get an electrician out mmediately, so I'm going to kill the main breaker and go through every outlet, fixture, and switch box to make sure they're grounded and neutrals are tight now. Then before I turn it back on I'm going to actually connect the grounds in the panel. Nothing about this post fills me with confidence that you understand the issue you are dealing with here.
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Oct 16, 2020 17:53
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angryrobots posted:Nothing about this post fills me with confidence that you understand the issue you are dealing with here. I disconnected the most dangerous seeming circuit with the main breaker off and I'll just deal with running 10ga extension cords to a couple of 14ga power strips until I have an electrician look at it. GWBBQ fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Oct 17, 2020 |
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Oct 16, 2020 22:13
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Someone please sanity check me here: While unfucking an overloaded junction box I realized a 20a circuit is wired with 14/2 in almost half my house. The romex is date and name coded with "master" following the name so I'm guessing a licensed person did this, which is why I'm second guessing myself. I figure my options are to rewire that part of the house or swap the 20a breaker for a 15a. Anything I'm missing? E: on pvc boxes with the flap knockouts, you can only put one cable per ko, right?
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Oct 17, 2020 23:51
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In my garage I have an outlet that I've replaced with a GFCI. There's no equipment ground, just hot/neutral. Downstream from that I have another outlet connected via the first outlet's load terminals so it is also protected. Since there is no ground at the original outlet, is there any benefit from connecting the two outlets together with a ground conductor? Right now the downstream outlet is also just 2 wire, but it's all exposed so I could easily run a ground between the two if it helps at all.
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Oct 18, 2020 23:07
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opengl128 posted:In my garage I have an outlet that I've replaced with a GFCI. There's no equipment ground, just hot/neutral. Downstream from that I have another outlet connected via the first outlet's load terminals so it is also protected. No, you'll just energize the metal frame of both if you connect a faulted piece of equipment.
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Oct 18, 2020 23:21
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I am trying to figure out wtf is going on with a LED strobing problem... Attached is a lovely drawing of the issue.  Not pictured: When there is only a single smart bulb socketed (the other socket empty) the bulb still strobes. It is as if having a normal non dimmable LED stabilizes the circuit, for lack of a better word. Switch is GE no neutral required Bulbs are Treatlife RGB smart bulbs... Any thoughts as to what ghosts are haunting me?
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Oct 21, 2020 23:20
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It looks like GE switches that don't use neutral have an adapter that screws into a light socket to balance voltage. My guess is your regular LED is serving that function when it's plugged in. You didn't mention if the bulbs or switch are dimmable, but mixing types can definitely cause flickering.
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Oct 22, 2020 00:25
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Why are you trying to run smart bulbs and a smart switch? Not trying to be a jerk, but I've wasted way too much of my life trying to figure out LED+smart/dimmer issues in my past, and I've concluded it isn't worth it. I now buy the best LED bulbs I can with the best smart switches/dimmers, or just get Hue bulbs. Those China-junk bulbs are likely the main issue. Some people aren't as bothered by flickering/strobing, but I seem to be really sensitive to it and can't ignore it.
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Oct 22, 2020 01:12
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BonerGhost posted:It looks like GE switches that don't use neutral have an adapter that screws into a light socket to balance voltage. My guess is your regular LED is serving that function when it's plugged in. Yeah it strobes even with the adapter. B-Nasty posted:Why are you trying to run smart bulbs and a smart switch? Good question. Primarily because my wife requires a switch and I wanted to avoid the jankiness of the switch being turned off and not being able to turn on the lights remotely. Something like that. Might not be worth the trouble as you say. Maybe I can just get a nice paddle switch that toggles the bulbs off but keeps the circuit closed or something. Thanks!
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Oct 22, 2020 01:21
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As much as I hate their software, the hardware on philips Hue bulbs is solid as a rock. Philips makes a switch which sticks to your wall via command strips and looks like a normal switch plate. The switch itself is actually a remote that docks in the plate so solidly my husband didn't even know it was removable. Just get that and chuck that janky poo poo in the trash. Mixing and matching smart bulbs and switches is way more of a pain in the rear end than it's worth. E: if you turn off the hue lights via switch or your phone (or the various assistants that can do it) the lights will turn off and the circuit remains closed
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Oct 22, 2020 01:31
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This is a bit of a rant post but do ya'll have places you like to buy light fixtures from that when they arrive at your house they actually have correct mounting brackets, and screws without pointed tips, etc? 2 for 2 now on buying lights for the house where the included hardware is just plain wrong in a variety of ways, hoping to shop smarter in the future. Fixtures were purchased from I think Anthropologie and Crate & Barrel (yeah I know...what were we thinking).
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Oct 22, 2020 23:03
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I've bought light fixtures online from Lowes, Joss & Main (rebranded Wayfair), and Lamps Plus and not had any problems myself.
Sirotan fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Oct 23, 2020 |
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Oct 22, 2020 23:40
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Sirotan posted:I've bought light fixtures online from Lowes, Joss & Main (rebranded Wayfair), and Lamps Plus and not had any problems myself.  (Lowes, lamps plus)I'm surprised anthropology had jacked up hardware for the price you definitely paid. Crate and barrel I'm largely convinced is garbage.
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Oct 23, 2020 01:18
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The RECAPITATOR posted:I am trying to figure out wtf is going on with a LED strobing problem... The RECAPITATOR posted:Primarily because my wife requires a switch
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Oct 23, 2020 19:57
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H110Hawk posted:
Thanks for the recs. Yeah the anthro light fixture would have technically at least been able to be installed if I wanted to trust a ~20lb? fixture hanging on like 3 tiny threads of a threaded tube that was too short to install a lock washer and nut on the top side of the mounting bracket per the instructions and my sensibilities. The C&B fixture was worse (sheet metal or wood screws instead of machine, wrong thread pitch, size 7 when ceiling boxes are like #8 or 10 from all I can find). I did forget but we did actually get another pair of fixtures for some ceiling spots over our countertop that installed just fine and maybe they were from anthropologie or another one of those type of places, so I guess we're 2/3 being bad. Got a refund on the first one, just going to have a pro electrician install this second fixture via whatever modifications they need to do in order to be done with the whole process of finding one my wife likes, ordering, going to install with fingers crossed that the hardware is correct. Will check out those other options next time.
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Oct 23, 2020 20:13
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Those thread tubes and the machine screws and all are standard parts, a trip to the hardware store should sort it out. Should it just come with the right hardware? Of course. But light fixture manufacturers suck, when those fluorescent boob lights were all the rage, there was a brand that used spring clips to grip the threaded rod that you mounted to the box, this meant that they were 100% impossible to get flush with the ceiling, and looked like straight garbage no matter what you did.
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Oct 23, 2020 21:47
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Elviscat posted:Those thread tubes and the machine screws and all are standard parts, a trip to the hardware store should sort it out.  edit: for the C&B fixture I did find some appropriately sized machine screws but the size (#7) is actually too skinny to grip into the holes in the ceiling box so I've got an electrician going to come out in a few weeks to figure it all out (quarantining to visit my brother's newborn). tangy yet delightful fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Oct 23, 2020 |
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Oct 23, 2020 21:56
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6-32, 8-32 and 10-32 screws will handle almost all electrical box/device/fixture possibilities. If you ever have hardware questions and don't know already what you need, skip the box stores and head to your local hardware store staffed with old guys.
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Oct 23, 2020 22:23
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angryrobots posted:6-32, 8-32 and 10-32 screws will handle almost all electrical box/device/fixture possibilities. I gave up and bought a box of all three of these w/ nuts the last time I installed a fixture. Best purchase I made in a while.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:06
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Hi wiring goons, I have an outlet with a weird problem and I was wondering if it's a telltale sign of something. Basically, it's not completely dead, but anything I plug in I have to jiggle around and find the right position for the thing to stay powered, otherwise it goes out. I turned off the breaker to take a peek, and I couldn't see an obvious problem with the wiring, although I'm pretty new to all of this:  Some other data: - There's a nearby outlet on the same circuit, and it works fine. - Both outlets in this box exhibit the same behavior. - When plugging in a [url=https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003LHJSY8/]circuit breaker finder[url], it lights up but doesn't respond to the detector. So I strongly suspect (and hope) that the outlet is at fault, rather than something else. From doing some research, I think in order to confirm this I need to get a multimeter, and confirm that the voltage difference between the black and white wire is 120V, as well as Vdiff between the black wire and ground. Does that sound right? Also, out of curiosity, what kind of fault would lead to the symptoms described above? Is it something to do with the ground wire not being grounded for example? Edit: 120V not 12V, thanks! 
floWenoL fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Oct 25, 2020 |
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Oct 25, 2020 00:34
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It sounds like that receptacle has an internal issue, causing a bad connection. Get a new one with side terminals to replace it. Also the voltage you would be reading there with a multimeter, would be 120v (edit- somewhere between 110v and 122v or so). angryrobots fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Oct 25, 2020 |
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Oct 25, 2020 00:41
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That's the worst era of Leviton back-stabbed outlets, those wires plugged in the back are held in by spring tension, and those springs are shot, they're also a fire hazard, replace/get an electrician/your landlord to replace all the outlets that look to be from that era. E: I've replaced hundreds of those hateful pieces of poo poo, usually burned to a crisp by a downstream space heater. If you know the breaker, the nice commercial grade outlets at your local home improvement store that have holes in the back AND A SCREW ON THE SIDE TO TENSION THE WIRES will make replacement very easy. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Oct 25, 2020 |
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Oct 25, 2020 01:00
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angryrobots posted:It sounds like that receptacle has an internal issue, causing a bad connection. Get a new one with side terminals to replace it. Thanks! The nearby one that was working had side terminals, so I wonder if that one failed earlier and was replaced. And of course you're right about 120v, I had a brain fart! Elviscat posted:That's the worst era of Leviton back-stabbed outlets, those wires plugged in the back are held in by spring tension, and those springs are shot, they're also a fire hazard, replace/get an electrician/your landlord to replace all the outlets that look to be from that era. Good to know, thanks! After I replace this one, I'll have to open up all the other outlets to check.
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Oct 25, 2020 06:25
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GWBBQ posted:The switch isn't compatible with dimming LEDs. You need an electrical load that comes somewhere close to an incandescent bulb for it to work. Haha no I went with wise words above and actually plopped a regular dumb switch back in and just did a tiny bit of education on how it works. Seems to be doing fine.
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Oct 25, 2020 15:21
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We have a 150 amp service. When I turn on the table saw in the garage, the bathroom lights dim, and they're on different circuits. Should I be looking for bonded neutrals or something across these circuits or is this normal behavior?
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Oct 26, 2020 17:21
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BonerGhost posted:We have a 150 amp service. When I turn on the table saw in the garage, the bathroom lights dim, and they're on different circuits. This is probably completely normal. Loads like electric motors can have a starting (inrush) current draw of 5+ times its rated running current. For a table saw motor, this could be 70+ amps or more. Even on a 150A service, this amount of juice will likely result in a temporary voltage drop of a few volts, which is pretty noticeable with lighting if you're sensitive to flicker/dimming. Now, it does depend on what you mean by dimming. Is it a quick flicker, and then a return to full brightness, or do the lights stay significantly dimmed after the motor has started? Do the lights ever *increase* in brightness? Yes to either of those could point to bigger issues like bad hot leg connection(s), bad neutral (dangerous), or undersized/oversubscribed POCO transformer.
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Oct 26, 2020 17:43
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BonerGhost posted:We have a 150 amp service. When I turn on the table saw in the garage, the bathroom lights dim, and they're on different circuits. Can you wire your table saw for 240v? Do you have access to that in your garage? 
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Oct 26, 2020 18:35
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So I've decided to replace the CFL cans in my kitchen with LEDs, and I've found a number of tutorials online that all run through the same very simple method for doing the retrofit by basically chopping the blue/red wires from the ballast and using them to carry hot and neutral into the old can, then wire-nutting those to the (cut and stripped) leads from the LED retrofit kit. I can provide a link if the description is confusing, but it's really simple and works fine. I'm not adept at navigating the code (btw, the OP has a link to the 2017 code, but the NFPA site has the 2020 code up now), so I can't find the section(s) that would vindicate or assuage my worry that this is very against code for two primary reasons: 1) Blue and red insulation color would be misleading to anyone who didn't do the work in the first place 2) Wire nuts inside the old light can feels wrong -- aren't the wire nuts always supposed to be in some kind of box? Can someone help me find the relevant sections in the code or just tell me if this is a justified worry? I can probably find a cleaner way to do it if I have to, but if this is actually okay, it'll save a lot of time.
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Oct 26, 2020 19:09
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After-action report: I returned the ungroundable switches and went to find groundable ones. They don't sell them. At all. Even the ones in the 10packs were ungroundable. I know I have some groundable ones from there I've installed them. Guess they just don't sell them there at all anymore? Given how insane things are I wonder if the stocks all being redirected south to the states. An electrician I spoke with was saying everything was getting hard to find...
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Oct 26, 2020 19:24
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B-Nasty posted:This is probably completely normal. Loads like electric motors can have a starting (inrush) current draw of 5+ times its rated running current. For a table saw motor, this could be 70+ amps or more. Even on a 150A service, this amount of juice will likely result in a temporary voltage drop of a few volts, which is pretty noticeable with lighting if you're sensitive to flicker/dimming. I think it's just a quick flicker/dimming when the motor first starts and returns to full brightness, but I'll have to watch specifically the next time I use the saw. Definitely no getting brighter. H110Hawk posted:Can you wire your table saw for 240v? Do you have access to that in your garage? It's on my wish list 
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Oct 26, 2020 19:48
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