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Another wonderful birdy for the facility, but I may be biased. Love em all 
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Aug 15, 2020 19:40
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Kitfox88 posted:Another wonderful birdy for the facility, but I may be biased. Love em all Avatar checks out.
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Aug 15, 2020 19:58
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I'm really surprised you picked -32 over -04. Even with only circuituous methods to deal with -04 at the moment, -32 just really really sucks. Day 21 was a really 'woah' day to me. The combination of dual abnormalities at a time as well as how utterly removed in visual design Central is compared to the previous departments really made me realize I did not know what the game was moving towards. It's really something when I played through this myself and just realizing how much the camera zooms out, and that this project is bigger than I thought.
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Aug 15, 2020 22:00
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Keldulas posted:I'm really surprised you picked -32 over -04. Even with only circuituous methods to deal with -04 at the moment, -32 just really really sucks. Maybe it's because I'm starved for HE+ gear in my current run, but I'm not that down on -32 yet.
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Aug 15, 2020 22:47
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Can't people wear belts on their faces without being weird and doing poses in them?
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Aug 15, 2020 23:46
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MagicBoots posted:Management has things under control, I'll go with 4, smooth sailing from here on out. Well that didn't last long  .
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Aug 16, 2020 00:20
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jimmydalad posted:Dusk ordeals are when the ordeal kiddy gloves come off and poo poo gets real. Green Dusk is absolutely nasty and can easily destroy your facility if you don't have the EGO gear. This is absolutely true, and since we are strapped for gear it means I had to come up with zany schemes to deal with these things. You can outlevel Dawn and Noon ordeals, but Dusks are really tough without high end gear or careful planning. MiiNiPaa posted:Do you intend to show what happens if you attempt to shortchange [-104] by using weaker agent? I'll probably do that as a completely noncanon bonus update because I don't want to murder my retry count by showing every way to kill the entire facility off-people voted based on me doing my best, so I should probably do my best! Or at least I should avoid screwing up on purpose.  Night10194 posted:I get a feeling based on the escalation (and on what Blue Star did to the facility) that 'deathless' is something that won't last all of a Lobocorp playthrough even if you know what you're doing and that at some points 'lose one Agent' vs. 'There is nothing between that thing and the tender meats of our entire facility' is a good choice to make. This is absolutely true. Frequently, finishing the mission is worth more than one agent's life+gear. Sometimes, it's even worth 5 or 10 agents' lives and gear. Hunt11 posted:I had some fun with green dusk. I was doing my best and thinking that I had it under control by just forming an adeath ball and hitting the producing units and skirting around the edges to avoid the robot death squads. Then one of my solid agents died due to an unfortunate spawn and I just got all my agents to bail to the top floor. I was doing my best to try and figure out a plan and then I realized I wasn't seeing too many robots up in the top area and then I realized I had left one employee behind and he was quite happily tearing through everything for he had Judgement birds gear which allowed him to tear through everything and an unseen abnormalities gift that gave him a small but crucial regen factor. So I just sent him at the final box and laughed. Yeah, it would have been wonderful to have Justita before this fight. This game keeps giving me the ordeals that are the trickiest to handle to start with (D6 Amber Dawn with no good ways to hit them, D11 Green Noon with only the bare minimum of gear to handle them). Sure am looking forward to a Day 26 Violet Midnight.  Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:Goddamn, Dusks don't gently caress around. Is Green even one of the tougher ones? Green is the one that Just Kills You, the others... one is really annoying and will throw off the setup of your entire facility to deal with it-and can absolutely kill people if you get careless, and the other is kind of in the middle between the two? It'll murder you if you get careless and it also requires careful positioning. Arcanuse posted:Well, that didn't seem all that bad. Except for the aleph defence bug which would've been rough to find out the hard way. I'm keeping something special in my back pocket for it. MagicBoots posted:Well that didn't last long It wasn't a terrible guess, since I should only need to restart if I'm completely careless. Unfortunately I get really sloppy whenever I think I'm not dealing with a massive threat, so I'm the sort of player who gets through a Dusk without a problem and then dies to forgetting a Meltdown. 
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Aug 16, 2020 01:48
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The thing with Lobotomy Corp is that's how it gets you really. Eventually you get a good rhythm going, but if you have an entire facility full of 'stable until you gently caress up', you WILL get careless at some point. ALEPHs are the poster child of this, really. You have a stable method of dealing with them, but oops you neglected one detail and now they murdered poo poo.
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Aug 16, 2020 02:47
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The Dusk ordeals also teach two subtler lessons that you need to internalize around this point or you'll really suffer later on. First, you can't solve every problem by deathstacking your agents into a single pile and facerolling them into the enemy. This was viable to an extent earlier because the upper layer is relatively compact, but Central by itself is as big as the entire top area by itself and the facility is only going to keep growing. You can see how much the situation went out of control from how many Noons ended up spawning down there, and this isn't the worst it can get by far. At some point you have to learn how to multitask efficiently and how to split your team up or you're toast. Second, your clerks are going to die in droves, so you have to have a plan to deal with that. Dusks are basically guaranteed to demolish your clerks and if somehow enough survive to keep the clerk's rights squad happy any Midnight is guaranteed to finish off the rest.You can avoid Dusks for a while by just ending the day before they show up but eventually you have to deal with them one way or another.
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Aug 16, 2020 05:31
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For a new player, the best advice for dealing with Dusks is generally "Don't, if you can help it". Tee really knows his stuff so he can get away with these wacky plans but for the most part, Dusk ordeals usually teach the player the virtue of ending the day early- if Green Noon didn't already shove that lesson down their throats. It was a while before I honestly felt confident enough to deal with a Dusk ordeal.
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Aug 16, 2020 10:30
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Mechanics Talk 15: Work Damage Calculation Today we'll be covering something I did only once in the form of mad post-it note scribblings: figuring out average expected work damage. I mostly eyeball it because it's faster, but for anyone who wants a more surefire way to calculate expected damage we'll be covering that today. The first step in figuring out average work damage is to figure out an Abnormality's average damage. Today, let's work with Blue Star, which has a damage range of 6-9 White damage. Adding that together and dividing that by 2 we get an average damage of 7.5 White damage per failed box. The second thing we need to know is how many boxes the Abnormality generates. Again looking at Blue Star, it creates 33 per work. This is where things get complicated. The next number we need to figure out is our Work Success rate. This is a little bit more complicated, and requires either a mod to show our work success % (The 'More information mod' does this if you are modding your game) or access to a gigantic list of all of the base success rates of every Abnormality in the game, which is full of spoilers and shouldn't be viewed unless we really want to know the names and general information of every Abnormality in the game. If you do, it's over here, but please continue not mentioning any information on this list in the thread, because much like the wiki it is full of spoilers. If we look at Blue Star's Insight work rates, they're a solid 50% across the board-so we'll work with that. From there, we look at our agent's Work Success bonus (remember that they get +1 to the success rate for every 5 points in the Work Success stat) Let's say they have 100 Temperance, for a +20 to the success rate, for a total of 70%. Then, because our Observation Level is 4, we get +8 more to the success rate for a final total of 78%. And now we do math. Taking the 33 PE boxes that Blue Star has, we multiply it by 0.78 for our total success rate to get an expected result of 25.74 successes-between 25 and 26 boxes. This leaves an average result of 7-8 failures, which would give us an average result of 7.5 damage times 7-8 failures to get an average damage of 52.5-60 damage, depending. Ouch! That's not where we should stop, though, unless we want to risk a panic. Not all of our runs are going to be average. Estimating for a bell curve is a realm of mathematics that is beyond me, a simple middle manager, so my go-to rule is to assume that I will fail up to (1 per 10% below 100%) time(s) than the average says I will. For Blue Star, that puts the lowest bound at 22 boxes out of 33, a total of 11 hits for a net of 82.5 base damage. We could do this math for the other end of the bell curve as well, but that side won't kill our Agents so who cares? This gives us 3 numbers to work with, 52.5, 60, and 82.5 for our averages and our high end damage. What we want to do is find modifiers among our gear that will let the first 2 numbers hit less than 70% of our SP, while keeping that last number from killing us outright. Since Blue Star requires a Prudence of 5 to work, our minimum Prudence to work it would be 85-making the entire thing a nonissue. Just don't wear something that gives them a net weakness and our Agent will be fine. That said, let's calculate things anyways just to be safe. Laetita's suit is a 0.7x White damage HE-tier suit, making it perfect for a test calculation. We take that 0.7x modifier, and then multiply it by 1.2 (the modifier for an ALEPH level hitting a HE level threat) to get a final modifier of 0.84x. This means that, if we were to work Blue Star with a 100 Temperance and Laetitia's armor, we could usually expect to take ~44-50 damage per work, and a bad run would get as high as ~69.3. Not only is that survivable, we could actually squeeze in a couple more failures on our hypothetical 85 SP Agent without actually hitting a panic-a nice cushion to have. Obviously there are some things that I don't take into account here (Overloads being the biggest one, remember that after the first work the success rates for ALEPH/WAWs fall), but the math can be applied to those as well-just redo the success% with the new numbers, and rework the math from there. If all of this math is intimidating, then take heart-we really don't need to do this to figure out how well our Agents will do on a work, and after playing for long enough it becomes second-nature to be able to sort of eyeball this information on the fly. Still, if ever we want to know if x agent in y suit can survive z work with a Abnormality, sometimes it's a good idea to do the numbers. Especially if it mathematically proves that Laetitia is a good girl who has done nothing wrong in her life.
TeeQueue fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Jul 3, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2020 10:58
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An excerpt from The 11 O'Clerk News (a parody periodical kind of like The Onion but for LobCorp clerks): Yesterday morning, LobCorp agents Chinely and Omni announced their intent to publicly release an instructional video called How To Nonspecific Anime Pose: Volume 1: Battle Tendency on DVD and Blu-ray, for immediate distribution to all departments. "Sure, most of us know how to defeat Lovecraftian horrors with the flick of a wrist," declared Chinely, "But our posing and one-liners are weak! Weaaaaaak! We'll never become main characters at this rate!" "Good poses and stylish outfits with as many belts as possible will be our trump card in the days to come," added Omni. "Also if we could get one of those swords that's also a gun that'd be hella sweet, just sayin'." Upon being told of his agents' flawless gameplan, Bishop sighed, rubbed his temples several times then replied, "Fine, I'll run it by Malkuth." Malkuth's response? "Training is Hod's jurisdiction, not mine." According to nearby clerks, she said this with a "customer service smile so icy even Angela would run in terror." Looks like we have a long way to go before anime revolutionizes our world.
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Aug 16, 2020 12:45
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Omniphile posted:An excerpt from The 11 O'Clerk News (a parody periodical kind of like The Onion but for LobCorp clerks): oh my god  this made me laugh far harder than it probably should, I think I bruised a rib please never stop. TeeQueue fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Aug 16, 2020 |
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Aug 16, 2020 13:07
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I like All-Around Helper, because it is literally just a Roomba somebody taped a couple knives on, and apparently this is so terrifying conceptually that it manifests as a mid-tier Abnormality.
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Aug 16, 2020 16:16
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One silly video I saw that modded tons of bits of the game (including giving the bee Barry b benson’s face and changing the story to the bee movie script) changed little helpers name to Reddit which is much more conceptually terrifying
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Aug 16, 2020 16:34
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TeeQueue posted:And now we do math. Alternatively, you can ask the computer to crunch the probabilities for you R Code for Nerds posted:PEbox = 33 Of course, I assume that abnormalities can only deal damage in whole numbers. But I wouldn't be surprised if this game tracks decimal damage despite never showing decimal damage. Video games love doing things like that. EDIT: Updated calculations for decimal damage, since games love having hidden decimals. golden bubble fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Aug 16, 2020 |
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Aug 16, 2020 18:29
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The game does, indeed, track devimal damage - there can, and will, be times when an agent survives a work at 0 HP/SP because they're actually at some decimal level between 0 and 1.
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Aug 16, 2020 18:47
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One think I don't think you explained in detail, TeeQue- does the Portrait transfer pre- or post-mitigation damage?
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Aug 16, 2020 18:54
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Theantero posted:I like All-Around Helper, because it is literally just a Roomba somebody taped a couple knives on, and apparently this is so terrifying conceptually that it manifests as a mid-tier Abnormality. I mean, no one knows it had knives taped to it until they extend, so that's mildly more terrifying.
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Aug 16, 2020 21:39
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golden bubble posted:Alternatively, you can ask the computer to crunch the probabilities for you  this looks like wizardry to me, and I love it.Aumanor posted:One think I don't think you explained in detail, TeeQue- does the Portrait transfer pre- or post-mitigation damage? Portrait transfers pre-mitigation damage (with a multiplier to make it bigger) and uses only the defenses of the person it’s being transferred onto.
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Aug 16, 2020 22:41
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Quackles posted:I mean, no one knows it had knives taped to it until they extend, so that's mildly more terrifying. That's also true for Roombas!
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Aug 16, 2020 23:29
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I have taken one thing away from all this. I need to get my hands on Judgement Bird. Also the only time I *ever* took down Blue Star was pulling the facility out of Third Trumpet, I had 2 agents left alive with Aleph gear, and I think a few other abnormalities had also done their damage. That was a restart.
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Aug 17, 2020 00:36
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Theantero posted:I like All-Around Helper, because it is literally just a Roomba somebody taped a couple knives on, and apparently this is so terrifying conceptually that it manifests as a mid-tier Abnormality. 
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Aug 17, 2020 01:05
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:I have taken one thing away from all this. This is basically an ironclad law of Lobotomy Corporation: if it's easy for an Abnormality to break loose, it might be relatively easy to suppress. If it has lenient requirements, it will always, always wreck your facility if it breaks loose. Alephs just take this to another level.
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Aug 17, 2020 02:41
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I fluked my way out of suppressing Blue Star myself. I was later in the game with the associated power increase, and even then i was maybe 1 or 2 damage ticks away from losing people.
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Aug 17, 2020 04:37
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TeeQueue posted:Portrait transfers pre-mitigation damage (with a multiplier to make it bigger) and uses only the defenses of the person it’s being transferred onto. Hmm. less useful than I'd hoped it would be then. One more tool abnormality-related question: What happens when you mirror an agent that has done some training that day? Do they still get the increase in the stat they've been training at the end of the day? Do this increase also get shuffled by the mirror? Or is it simply gone?
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Aug 17, 2020 10:54
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So, Judgement Birds backstory confirms the next member of the Birdzodia gang:
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Aug 17, 2020 11:40
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Day 22: Story Music: Dungeon - Maximum Security   You’ve received a document written by A himself? Perhaps you’re being recognized now. A is on a rather long journey currently. As all journeys have to end, the final destination will be home; this place. Could this moment be a part of your journey as well?Another pair of random lines, here. I think from here forward I'll just simplify matters and put the alternate lines in a quote box, like so: Alternate Universes posted:
The day still lies cold, but we know that the winter frost is almost over. Alternate Universes posted:
In summary: We get a letter from A, who's heard that we're an amazing manager. He can't meet us in person because he's on a trip right now, and Angela waxes poetic about journeys and winter. Music: Town - Alone in a Crowd   Our new Sephirah here is Tiphereth. As you can see, he is smaller than the others by a large margin. To make up for this, he is usually very chill about things. (This question is completely pointless, by the way. Both answers lead to the same thing.  )  But if your question is whether we are biological twins, then no. In other words, trying to differentiate us is meaningless. Like two peas in a pod. Isn’t that fortunate? Seeing as you’ve survived your duties long enough to meet with us, I won’t have to bore the both of us with the basics of things like what Abnormalities are and how to manage them, right? If you turn out to be a disappointment, know that not even your status as the manager will let you get away with it. I know you’ll do fine, manager. Here’s a word of advice. I’m nothing like those Upper Sephirot you’ve gotten used to, so don’t treat me like I’m one of them. They’re a bunch of idiots. But in technical aspects, we’re not so different. What I’m trying to say is, the Uppers are only good at pretending to be busy when they don’t even have much work to begin with. I can’t even believe we’re all considered to be Sephirot! I hope that you’ll find some encouragement here.Music: never frozen bottom flows  ..... Hi, Netzach. Since you’re both Tiphereth, I guess that counts as you both greeting me... Here’s the plan for the joint operation drill between the Safety Team and the Central Command Team tomorrow. Please look it over. Look it over? I bet I’ll have to rewrite the entire thing from scratch! Just leave it over there, Netzach. I’ll give it a review and let you know. But Netzach can work fine when he’s motivated to. You know that. Results are not the problem here. The point is, Lady Angela is way too easy on us. If I were her, I would have punished this addict right at the first infraction. That’d please Yesod alright. Why don’t you two go and have some serious discussion on implementing a penalty point system? I bet it’ll be productive… Oh, just be quiet! Buzz off to that Upper Layer of yours where you belong. Yeah, bye Netzach. I like our Middle Sephirot, they’re cheerful and make me laugh! How many times do I have to tell you? You shouldn’t laugh so easily. We have to be strict, stern, and stoic! We’re the centermost, the Central Command Team! Don’t worry, Tiphereth, I know. By the way, don’t we have something to discuss with the manager? The manager will do fine, like he always does. And he could fail too, like he always does.In summary: Tiphereth and Tiphereth are the heads of the Central Command Team (referred to as Central from here on), a department so big and important that it requires two kids stacked together in a trenchcoat to manage. While Tiphereth is easygoing and likes his coworkers while believing in the manager, Tiphereth thinks all of her fellows are unreliable idiots and wishes she could punish them for being such failures. Tiphereth and Tiphereth balance each other out, and are probably going to try and kill us because they're both AI and this is a video game.   Wait… you're demanding I do basically... nothing different? We've heard all about how long your days get, and you're not going to be able to get away with it forever! Levels 9 and 10 were a bit overwhelming the last time you went that far anyways, right? You can definitely stop before then. Anyways, just do it! Alright. It's not the first time I've been asked to change nothing.  The game begins limiting how long we can actually farm our Abnormalities at this point with missions like this. This one lets us go as far as 1 work short of level 9 before failing it, so it's generous-this will not be the case forever. Remember that we've regularly gone into 7 or 8 for our daily grinds. Part of this was in preparation for this set of missions. Overall, we won't be able to farm as much as we'd like again until day 31, and that's assuming I play perfectly. While this won't matter for anyone playing along with this thread-since they can reset the week via Memory Repository after clearing the missions-this will give our facility a bit of a training crunch. Luckily, we should have more than enough LOB to make up for it.   Oh… Yesod? What brings you out here? I'm bringing you the updated information on our staff. Ah, thank you. This is good to have on hand. That's all. Hey, Yesod… do you think our plan's changed the manager's mind at all? Hard to say. Zeta21's easily managed to become a top agent, but there's still a large number of clerk fatalities every day. And that means more work for us… I have to train them, and you have to keep on recording their data. All so that the others can avoid looking at any of it aside their ID numbers... There must be something else we can do. Don't be hopelessly optimistic. Our job is to follow the manager's orders, no matter how many die. We should just be thankful that it isn't the agents who are dying as well. I... suppose… I just thought… Hm? Oh, it's nothing! Let me know if you ever want to try a counseling program with your agents. I'm working on new resources. Considering what happened last time, I'll pass. Thanks anyways. You're welcome!Next time, on Lobotomy Corporation: Mizu causes problems again.  Hmmmhh...  What're you doing? I've been taking notes on our leeader… So I'm reviewing them. They're iiinterestiing… You mean D.A.D.? What's so interesting about them? Weell… one time, after woork, I saw them playing baall with some cleerks… They were reeally good at it… So they have a hobby. They also neever take breaks on the job, and reacts to everything like it's no big deeal… That's really raare. I feel like they'd see an AALEPH escape and be relaaxed about it. And they neever get upset with us even when we make Queeen Beee get mad… It's like they're not… huuman… Of course they're human. What else would they be? I think... D.A.D. is an aalienn… A what. You knoow… From spaaaaaace… ...yeah, I'm going on break. Okay. Have fuun.
TeeQueue fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Jul 3, 2021 |
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Aug 17, 2020 12:41
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Aumanor posted:Hmm. less useful than I'd hoped it would be then. One more tool abnormality-related question: What happens when you mirror an agent that has done some training that day? Do they still get the increase in the stat they've been training at the end of the day? Do this increase also get shuffled by the mirror? Or is it simply gone? Going off of my memory, I think it shuffles the exp gains around too? I haven't really tested it though, and I can't find any real information on it anywhere so this is 100% memory-please take this with a grain of salt. In general, it's not a good idea to use mirror after training.
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Aug 17, 2020 12:46
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Oh boy, A-senpai noticed you! This surely portends only good things! Also, Twophereth <3 TeeQueue posted:Next time, on Lobotomy Corporation: Mizu causes problems again.
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Aug 17, 2020 12:58
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I love this facility full of idiots and I will be a bit sad when they start actually dying rather than just sending Talow into another doomed hell-time.
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Aug 17, 2020 13:13
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Night10194 posted:I love this facility full of idiots and I will be a bit sad when they start actually dying rather than just sending Talow into another doomed hell-time. 
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Aug 17, 2020 14:44
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Tiphereth, despite her demeanor, is trustworthy imo. She lays it all out bluntly so as long as we don't break her rules she'll be angry but never kill us. Tiphereth though... It's always the nice, quiet ones that you need to watch 
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Aug 17, 2020 14:59
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I hope Angela gets to go on that trip someday.. 
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Aug 17, 2020 15:18
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TeeQueue posted:Going off of my memory, I think it shuffles the exp gains around too? Did a little testing and the mirror does not seem to redistribute the exp gains. Did a few runs of nothing but a Fort I agent spamming 1.76 over and over and ending the day by using the mirror and they consistently ended up with Justice V, regardless of how the mirror reshuffled their stats. Might have some potentially interesting implications?
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Aug 17, 2020 17:20
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I’m actually starting to be reminded of Boatmurdered a bit looking at everything that’s going on: the actual leadership is never physically present, the departments are headed by AI who are mostly incredibly horrible picks for leadership, the actual employees run the gambit from “naive newbie” to “actually cared about long-timer” to “origin of memes and injokes”, and routine daily work includes absurdly dangerous and stupid activities that can result in the entire place dying a horrible death of something goes wrong. So I guess where I’m going with this is who starts the inevitable tantrum spiral?
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Aug 17, 2020 19:38
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the Orb of Zot posted:I’m actually starting to be reminded of Boatmurdered a bit looking at everything that’s going on: the actual leadership is never physically present, the departments are headed by AI who are mostly incredibly horrible picks for leadership, the actual employees run the gambit from “naive newbie” to “actually cared about long-timer” to “origin of memes and injokes”, and routine daily work includes absurdly dangerous and stupid activities that can result in the entire place dying a horrible death of something goes wrong. This is Lobotomy Corporation. We don't have uncivilized tantrum spirals here. Only civilized murder/suicide/wandering/breakout panic spirals exist in our mega-corporation.
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Aug 17, 2020 19:58
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The tantrum spiral won't start until an elephant-shaped abnormality arrives.
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Aug 17, 2020 20:04
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the Orb of Zot posted:I’m actually starting to be reminded of Boatmurdered a bit looking at everything that’s going on: the actual leadership is never physically present, the departments are headed by AI who are mostly incredibly horrible picks for leadership, the actual employees run the gambit from “naive newbie” to “actually cared about long-timer” to “origin of memes and injokes”, and routine daily work includes absurdly dangerous and stupid activities that can result in the entire place dying a horrible death of something goes wrong. Tantrum spirals aside, can I get a lever that fills whatever main room I want with lava? That feels like it'd come in handy in certain situations.
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Aug 17, 2020 22:09
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TeeQueue posted:Tantrum spirals aside, can I get a lever that fills whatever main room I want with lava? That feels like it'd come in handy in certain situations. Based on what I've seen so far in the game, that might also make things worse.
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Aug 17, 2020 22:12
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