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GladRagKraken posted:I think that I need to start following comic book writers, rather than comic book characters, if I don't want to be constantly disappointed. The problem with that plan is that I'd have to read a lot of awful comics to know who's alright, and who's gonna slap me in the face and remind me that it's an industry by and for people who have serious problems with women. It's hard to say when DC started going down the wrong path, and while it is cliché I still want to say it was around when Dan Didio rose to prominence. Didio edited the miniseries Young Justice/Teen Titans: Graduation Day which, in a radical shift from the previous titles, saw some of DC's B- and C-lister teen heroes brutally beaten and/or killed by a Superman robot. Teenage Hero Cannon Fodder would become a pattern in the coming years to the point that being a Teen Titan in the DC Universe was almost as bad an idea as being a woman - seriously, you guys! Now we're at the point where a homeless woman finds Jokers severed face in a sewer and sews it to her own.
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Jan 9, 2015 20:59
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Kurieg posted:Is this where we link the Frank Miller Shortpacked comic? Dude earned that nickname.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:05
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Or is it Sputnik posted:Now we're at the point where a homeless woman finds Jokers severed face in a sewer and sews it to her own. I was hoping they were done with Joker's severed face once they revealed his skin had grown back.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:17
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Or is it Sputnik posted:Now we're at the point where a homeless woman finds Jokers severed face in a sewer and sews it to her own.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:30
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I know you were discussing in the video how Marvel takes the opportunity to have fun with their characters rather than going full grimdark all the time. Supaideroman is now canon in the marvel universe.
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Jan 9, 2015 22:14
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That may be the greatest comic panel ever made. 
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Jan 9, 2015 22:16
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Watchmen was definitely a major influence, but I call the other half on aping whoreswhoreswhoreswhores Miller from DKR onward. Was Sin City prominent enough as influence?
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Jan 9, 2015 22:38
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If it makes you feel better, Marvel probably won't screw up Kamala in her own series! It'll happen after the series is over, where she'll be revealed to have had a relationship with a much older superhero off panel/get entered into a death game/die. Reading the rest of Ms. Marvel should be fairly safe.
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Jan 9, 2015 22:45
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Laputanmachine posted:Also, didn't Watchmen comic pretty much start the whole grimdark thing in American comics that lasted throughout the 90s? Watchmen did it well, because it didn't overdo it and there was a point other than being edgy I believe it's generally accepted that the wave of grittiness was started in the 80s around the time of Watchmen and Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns (Hey look, it's Batman, we're full circle!). DKR is still a legit pretty good comic, even though Miller has done his best to make his name into a stamp of awful. Both comics did start the whole "deconstructing the superhero" trend, and yes, a bunch of imitators tried to jump on that bandwagon and copy their aesthetics and failed in a big way.
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Jan 9, 2015 22:51
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Kurieg posted:I know you were discussing in the video how Marvel takes the opportunity to have fun with their characters rather than going full grimdark all the time. Sorry.
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Jan 9, 2015 23:21
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I hope you're being hyperbolic, Because why introduce it in the first place if you're going to have it job in the very next panel  , they could easily milk that hype for a few pages, or even an issue cliffhanger.
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Jan 9, 2015 23:56
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Kurieg posted:I hope you're being hyperbolic, Because why introduce it in the first place if you're going to have it job in the very next panel 
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Jan 10, 2015 00:01
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Aaaargh  this is the worst bullshit. I was so excited when someone posted the panel of Leopardon appearing in BSS, and now that I see the second page I'm just kinda frustrated. Why do people do this? What purpose does it serve to pull out something fun, and campy, and powerful-looking to just immediately chump it? I know it's supposed to make vamp dude seem like a badass, but all it really does is make Leopardon look like a piece of poo poo. It cheapens the whole thing to pull a loving Worf like that, I'm so disappointed.Bringing it back around, it's kind of like Batman.  A bad guy can pull whatever the gently caress he wants, it doesn't matter, because Batman has already anticipated it and gotten Superman and The Flash to build him something that utterly chumps it. It just seems like really crappy writing, to me.
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Jan 10, 2015 01:40
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Captain Bravo posted:Aaaargh You come to understand that when it comes to fights and action and excitement you should REALLY go to Manga. Because for all of the problems in that media? it is usually released on a weekly basis (or if longer usually more than 20 pages) so it can actually dedicate time to fights. Even if someone is worfing. Comics gotta be 21 pages in, 21 pages out, with a hook to get people to buy the next one, and an intro to sum up what's going on to begin. Also Dan Slott hates fun, he revels in "Trolling" the fans, and Marvel as a whole has the idea that getting people pissed is better for the industry than say... making them want to buy more with awesome stories. DC is the opposite, DC is dumb, they think their target audience should be 40 year old adult males rather than trying to grab a new generation of fans. Also to go back to Jenner, all of that stuff you listed, Those weren't bad because of objectification of women, although that certainly contributes. All of those things were just terrible loving stories. Terribly written, wastes of time that makes people want to not buy comics. Because when a character suffers a tragedy, if it's a good book? You empathise with them, you want to stand with them as they pick themselves up off the ground, dust themselves off, clean the blood from the lip and go "Okay, round two. Come on." One of my favourite heroes and runs could be codified in that nothing went right for him (Mostly due to editors) including an issue where he's flat out tortured be Desaad, one of Darkseids followers. At the same time stupid poo poo was happening with his Girlfriend who was another super hero which made the writer of the book upset (and fans of that heroine upset because she was really cool and really dumb poo poo was happening) So he's emotionally being tortured while being physically cut up... And the issue is really effective at making you sympathise with the guy. And NOT making you go "This is a digusting shock tactic." As in the end he picks himself back up, bleeding, in pain, and pushes on through. As an aside, Mind Control stories are always stupid and everyone who thinks of them should take a bullet to the brain. Those stories aren't well written to make you empathise with the characters, they're just shock slock, because that's all writers can do. Actually I do have a comic for you to read. Witchblade, after Ron Marz takes over. Because before that Witchblade was a cheesecake comic completely there for the titilation. Marz took that and made it serious, he made the witchblade armor itself stop being the barest of fantasy armor to something that people could actually take seriously and looked badass. There's a bit of a transition period. But start from #80 and go until he stops writing, I highly recommend it. I recommend Marz as a writer in general despite the rap he gets (Because he was responsible for the 'codifying' Women in Refridgerators. Although really it was just an easy target, almost every female hero he writes is awesome. Maybe because of the poo poo he got from that incident, I don't know. But it's good.) but Witchblade was specifically notable as a title that went from Cheesecake fap bait to "Actual plot, a legitimate protagonist, mystery! Intrigue!" Onmi fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jan 10, 2015 |
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Jan 10, 2015 02:51
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Well, that may be a part of it, but even more than that it's pretty loving demeaning to subject certain characters to a lot of the bullshit comic book authors do. Different people get different things out of comics, so what about the people who want to see a strong minority character that doesn't have to deal with the same omnipresent, suffocating bullshit that mundane people do? On some level I can understand it, they might think it makes the character easier to relate to, easier to empathize with. But on another level, it's practically saying "That same poo poo you deal with now? Even if you could pull a sword from your rear end and bench-press a tank, you would still have to deal with this poo poo." When 'this poo poo' is something like taxes, or insufferable in-laws, it becomes comical. When 'this poo poo' is stuff like harassment and the systemic struggles certain people face, it really isn't that loving funny. A lot of artists will tell you that nothing should be sacrosanct. That anything can, and should, be worth addressing through art. But the flip side of that is that when you address an issue that big, you have to do it justice, or it's not worth doing. And by god, when you put Leopardon in your loving Spider-Man comic you drat well better have him kick a moderate amount of rear end before he goes down!
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Jan 10, 2015 03:39
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Captain Bravo posted:Well, that may be a part of it, but even more than that it's pretty loving demeaning to subject certain characters to a lot of the bullshit comic book authors do. Different people get different things out of comics, so what about the people who want to see a strong minority character that doesn't have to deal with the same omnipresent, suffocating bullshit that mundane people do? Bravo good Captain...
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Jan 10, 2015 03:41
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Sorry to hear that Jenner. For what is worth, She-Hulk is also my favorite female hero. Strong, smart, and a lot of fun! My favorite moment was during Civil War, when Tony Stark depowered her, and then she went "You messed up, buddy! She-Hulk would've punched you into a pulp, but Jennifer Walters will DESTROY you!" I'm a little confused. You said that your biggest issue is how much poo poo is done to female heroes, but then you say you love seeing them go beyond their hardships. Maybe the real issue is that writers should give them problems beyond depowerment/mind control/rape? Until now I never though much about that, since I've seen male heroes also go through some of that stuff too. Batman got his back broken, Superman has been depowered/died, Spider-Man got buried alive/his mind taken over, Nightwing/Invincible have been raped by women, Aquaman lost his hand to pirahnas... Again, I think the main problem is that male heroes can go through a lot more hardships, whereas female heroes always get defaulted to losses powers/get raped. I too would love to see women heroes go through more problems than just the "well, she's a woman, so let's give her woman problems" run of the mill stuff. And I understand that studios would rather have 50 million of profit from their own movie, instead of 75 million profit for just letting the character they hold movie rights for appear in another movie, but in this era of legalese and whatnot, surely they could do a 300 page contract to make sure they're covered.
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Jan 10, 2015 04:01
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Onmi posted:As an aside, Mind Control stories are always stupid and everyone who thinks of them should take a bullet to the brain. Skeletor mind contolling the Justice League is super rad though.
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Jan 10, 2015 07:12
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This. Right here. This is why I never read comics.
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Jan 10, 2015 07:40
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So if the lightning coming from the spider-men supposed to be their spider-sense, or did spider-man get lightning powers at some point? Also seriously, Supaidaman was the only reason I even knew this crossover was happening, and they kill him off in a page.
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Jan 10, 2015 07:49
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The influx of Wonderful 101 Avatars allows me to point out that this is what people wish comics would BE. Well... some people don't, but those people also hate fun. I'm sad to check if they've ruined the Marvel Adventures Spiderman in this poo poo as well Seriously, you leave this goofy motherfucker alone marvel.
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Jan 10, 2015 11:06
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Magni posted:Say what you will about Strange, but the way he shoots down Riddler in flames there is a thing of beauty. Kurieg posted:Is this where we link the Frank Miller Shortpacked comic? Kal-L posted:For what is worth, She-Hulk is also my favorite female hero. Onmi posted:I'm sad to check if they've ruined the Marvel Adventures Spiderman in this poo poo as well
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Jan 10, 2015 15:16
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Pyroi posted:So if the lightning coming from the spider-men supposed to be their spider-sense, or did spider-man get lightning powers at some point? The lightning is from grimdark vampire. And Supaidaman isn't dead, but they did destroy Leopardon, which is lame.
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Jan 10, 2015 16:49
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Tiggum posted:Those Riddler tapes are literally the only part of this game's story that is actually good. The interview tapes are some of the weakest writing in the game- they all follow the same narrative arc.
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Jan 10, 2015 18:05
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Discendo Vox posted:The interview tapes are some of the weakest writing in the game- they all follow the same narrative arc. I kinda like them, but I can agree. Pretty much every interview tape in Asylum is "Rawr rawr, look how edgy this villain is" while every tape in Arkham City is "Rawr rawr, look how on top of things Hugo Strange is except with the Joker because man that Joker is so edgy".
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Jan 10, 2015 18:17
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I like Riddler's tapes just because even though Strange kinda breaks him in the end, he's the only one of the inmates who makes Strange lose his cool. Joker never opens up and lets Strange get in his head the way Strange wants him to, but at the same time, Joker's bullshit never gets a reaction out of Strange besides "Christ what an rear end in a top hat." At least Riddler really gets under his skin and reveals that he knows a ton of Strange's secrets... until he gives Strange an opening by revealing he doesn't know who Batman is.
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Jan 10, 2015 19:48
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I can't help but wonder if Strange would've let Riddler in on his Protocol 10 plans. And yeah, the Riddler tape confirms that Bat-Strange is actually something that exists in-universe, making the lack of a boss fight against him all the more disappointing.
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Jan 10, 2015 20:58
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I like that there are only 4 riddler tapes, so you might spend forever looking for the 5th one... The ultimate jerk riddle of Seal Team Six.
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Jan 10, 2015 21:01
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Discendo Vox posted:The interview tapes are some of the weakest writing in the game- they all follow the same narrative arc. I just mean the ones with Riddler in them, not all the interviews. Basically for the same reasons TwoPair said.
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Jan 11, 2015 04:23
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I can't help but wonder if Strange would've let Riddler in on his Protocol 10 plans. How would such a boss fight work? The Arkham combat system's not exactly built for allowing fights where both combatants are equally skilled...Maybe he counters you if you fail to hit him with perfect timing several times in a row?
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Jan 11, 2015 04:48
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GilliamYaeger posted:How would such a boss fight work? The Arkham combat system's not exactly built for allowing fights where both combatants are equally skilled...Maybe he counters you if you fail to hit him with perfect timing several times in a row? Offhand, I'd see it working like the Freeze fight, except for the combat instead of the stealth. So as you damage him with certain techniques, he learns to counter them. So do enough damage with normal attacks and he starts countering you, do enough damage with your counters and he starts countering your counters, use one particular gadget too much and he starts defending against it more and more, exc.
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Jan 11, 2015 04:51
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They made a pretty decent attempt at making a combat vs combat boss fight with Bronze Tiger in Arkham Origins: Blackgate, but it's...a little iffy. That might be due to limitations of the portable consoles. I could see that sort of fight working either by taking away counter icons, or by making you respond to different attack methods. A different character would have different attack motions than a regular thug, so they won't have the same tells. They'd still have an appropriate counter icon e.g. blue for normal, yellow for knife, red for dodge away. Kind of like fighting a ninja, but with even more versatility. That being said, one of the bosses in the next game does a pretty solid job of a combat boss fight. I'm working on getting everything together for an update for the DLC, so stay tuned.
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Jan 11, 2015 05:01
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GilliamYaeger posted:How would such a boss fight work? The Arkham combat system's not exactly built for allowing fights where both combatants are equally skilled...Maybe he counters you if you fail to hit him with perfect timing several times in a row? Actually it really doesn't. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Jan 11, 2015 |
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Jan 11, 2015 12:08
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Origins doesn't do it perfectly... but it does it better than the Guhl fight in city, I would advocate.
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Jan 11, 2015 12:18
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 Harley Quinn's Revenge/Polsy - Interview tapes: Joker 1-5 Campaign Challenge: Double Jeopardy/Polsy with NightwingBonus 3: Arkham City Errata/Polsy So! Errata. There's a little bit with Ra's al Ghul, there's some hinting towards the Scarecrow for Arkham Knight, and there's the Quincy Sharpe interview tapes I never knew existed. Otherwise, this is the DLC! It's only going to span about two videos since it's an hour and a half long. It's also the last batch of interview tapes and I figured the next video just ought to cap things off. Otherwise there's one more Extreme campaign I'll be doing. Also, remember how I said I wasn't doing a technical 100%? I...kind of lied. I'll have a picture for it when I get it.
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Jan 11, 2015 12:29
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This thread made me reinstall Arkham City, and something magical happened as I was beating up random thugs: I'm, uh, sure he'll be okay.
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Jan 11, 2015 13:31
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No, see, he's just unconscious. I have a Detective Mode installed in my cowl so I know these things.
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Jan 11, 2015 14:25
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He's fine, he's just practicing his somersaults. Gotta impress Two-Face!
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Jan 11, 2015 15:28
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Another "harley is way smarter than people think she is" moment, she created an encryption that not even batman can crack, or is smart enough to be able to find someone who can on short notice. Also do you know what part of your computer is dying? if I had to take a guess I'd say the hdd, since it seems to be doing it whenever it should be reading something from disk. Nalesh fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Jan 11, 2015 |
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Jan 11, 2015 15:31
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Enraged Harley reminds me of the episodes of the Powerpuff Girls when Bubbles ended up blowing her top and going mad, same voice actors too, which is probably why this is.
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Jan 11, 2015 17:41
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