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The thing is, we have a huge time gap with Christa that we never got to see. For all we know, even if she does secretly harbor some sort of ressentiment towards Clem she still helped her, and helped her drat well, for a LONG TIME before the start of major events this season. Christa is knowledgeable and skilled. It was lovely weather, a lovely situation, and they were starving. All of the dialogue choices were kind of lovely, and overall it was a tense situation. Christa purposefully lies about being alone there, which means she has some amount of care for Clem. I'm not gonna just walk out of her life and become the monster that got Omid killed and ruined her life, just to disappear and never try to at least show some drat respect to the woman.
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May 18, 2014 01:54
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BMS posted:I'd think that Clem would still care a bit for Christa sure. However, her entire stent with Lee was an entirely different type of relationship than with Christa. Her and Christa started out fine, but when Omid bit the dust, you know Christa was pretty much a cold-hearted bitch towards her. At the beginning of Episode 1, it had been...I forget how many months, but still, a long time, so she'd have mellowed out by then, and she STILL acted like that. The way Christa felt about Clem is the way I felt toward that stupid autistic girl. Jesus Christ why is every single person in this game except for Clementine and the fuckin psychopath ridiculously incompetent?
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May 18, 2014 03:05
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Terror Sweat posted:The way Christa felt about Clem is the way I felt toward that stupid autistic girl. Jesus Christ why is every single person in this game except for Clementine and the fuckin psychopath ridiculously incompetent? I think this is actually going to be the theme this season, and maybe the "big choice" near the end. Is Clem still compassionate enough to care for the weak, or is she going to ride into the sunset with Jane, Kenny, and whoever else?
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May 18, 2014 03:13
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Terror Sweat posted:The way Christa felt about Clem is the way I felt toward that stupid autistic girl. Jesus Christ why is every single person in this game except for Clementine and the fuckin psychopath ridiculously incompetent? Most actual people would be this incompetent in a real apocalypse. One of the weirdly revealing things about this game series is how people are willing to hate other people for being burdens or liabilities, regardless of their intentions. A good person who screws up is more hated than a psychotic who keeps a lid on things, Carver only really screwed up by crossing the line much too far for people to tolerate.
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May 18, 2014 03:20
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Dolash posted:Most actual people would be this incompetent in a real apocalypse. One of the weirdly revealing things about this game series is how people are willing to hate other people for being burdens or liabilities, regardless of their intentions. A good person who screws up is more hated than a psychotic who keeps a lid on things, Carver only really screwed up by crossing the line much too far for people to tolerate. Yeah it's why in season 1, for example, I couldn't really hate Ben. We all like to think in an apocalypse we'd be Kenny, but really, most of us would be Ben.
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May 18, 2014 03:26
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RagnarokAngel posted:Yeah it's why in season 1, for example, I couldn't really hate Ben. We all like to think in an apocalypse we'd be Kenny, but really, most of us would be Ben. But those who survive for over two years should at least be pretty competent by now. I'd be dead in five minutes sure, but these people should've been too.
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May 18, 2014 03:31
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Dolash posted:Most actual people would be this incompetent in a real apocalypse. One of the weirdly revealing things about this game series is how people are willing to hate other people for being burdens or liabilities, regardless of their intentions. A good person who screws up is more hated than a psychotic who keeps a lid on things, Carver only really screwed up by crossing the line much too far for people to tolerate. There's a reason people can go to jail for being criminally negligent. The idiots spend all game finding out new ways to screw up and kill each other. Intentions don't mean poo poo when your actions hurt others.
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May 18, 2014 03:38
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Terror Sweat posted:There's a reason people can go to jail for being criminally negligent. The idiots spend all game finding out new ways to screw up and kill each other. Intentions don't mean poo poo when your actions hurt others. Man, if only there were a compromise in this game, between Balls-Out-Kenny, and Ball-less Ben. If only there were a Benny. ....if only.
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May 18, 2014 03:46
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Next episode introduces a guy who had one of his balls bitten and was then quickly removed. He becomes the most reasonable character. And then he dies.
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May 18, 2014 03:59
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THE PWNER posted:But those who survive for over two years should at least be pretty competent by now. Well lets assume Luke and co. had been penned up with Carver for those two years, it'll be hard for them to learn any survival skills in that environment.
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May 18, 2014 04:21
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Just wrapped the episode up. Kenny, Clem and Jane, team Stone Fuckin' Cold 4 Lyfe Also: can anyone sum up if there are discernible variables from 400 Days? I just saw extremely brief cameos: Russell with an AK47 and Vince interrupting during the walkie-talkie theft strangemusic fucked around with this message at 05:56 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 05:52
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I'm thinking that there will be more 400 Days cameos down the line. Like maybe the people who don't go with Tavia end up in Wellington? I also don't think we've seen the last of the people who were in Carver's camp. I'm also expecting Nate to show up again.
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May 18, 2014 06:00
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In It For The Tank posted:I'm thinking that there will be more 400 Days cameos down the line. Like maybe the people who don't go with Tavia end up in Wellington? I also don't think we've seen the last of the people who were in Carver's camp. Eddie is clearly visible in the episode 4 slide. If Nate doesn't show up I'm going to be seriously disappointed, really interesting character for being on the screen for about 5 minutes. He's also not a determinant, so like Bonnie and Eddie, him having a larger role is much more likely than any of the people from the 400 days camp.
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May 18, 2014 06:19
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Eddie doesn't have to go at the end of 400 days
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May 18, 2014 07:56
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Just finished my own run of this, easily my favorite out of the three we've gotten so far. While I did like interacting with Luke during the second episode this is the first one of the season where I felt challenged to make a decision and felt regret immediately after making one. Instead of getting annoyed at later unforeseen consequences, I mean like straight away questioning what made me think something was a good idea. I also pretty much agree entirely with the "Benny" feeling, christ do you want to love that man but he makes it hard on you.
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May 18, 2014 09:01
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I feel like it's harder to be compelled by the decisions in the new group: Luke for example is supposed to be the "trust him vs. trust Kenny" big anchor of opinions for the player, and I can hardly remember enough about his personality to make the decisions feel weighty, whereas I really felt torn by having to choose and exclude people's favor in S1 as Lee. I did like how they have some more depth to Carlos other than "the strict guy", that scene with Sarah and Carver was really well done.
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May 18, 2014 14:21
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Verviticus posted:Eddie doesn't have to go at the end of 400 days That's the guy who's friends with Wyatt. Regardless of how things go down, they always end up separated. So it seems like a decent chance he might show up. And am I the only one that is okay with never seeing Christa again? Not out of dislike of the character or anything, but it just seems more, I dunno, likely(?) that when you get separated from somebody in the apocalypse, don't know each other's current routes or positions, and previously had a vague 'let's make for Wellington' plan, Id think the odds of catching back up w/ each other is kinda iffy.
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May 18, 2014 15:06
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strangemusic posted:I feel like it's harder to be compelled by the decisions in the new group: Luke for example is supposed to be the "trust him vs. trust Kenny" big anchor of opinions for the player, and I can hardly remember enough about his personality to make the decisions feel weighty, whereas I really felt torn by having to choose and exclude people's favor in S1 as Lee. True story for so long I kept getting Nick and Luke confused.
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May 18, 2014 15:57
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LadyPictureShow posted:That's the guy who's friends with Wyatt. Regardless of how things go down, they always end up separated. So it seems like a decent chance he might show up. No onscreen death means we'll probably see them again. This is why I think Matthew will be the bad guy of the last chapter. .
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May 18, 2014 16:44
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I actually wonder if the characters who didn't go with Octavia are going to show up and actually be more important than some of the characters who went with the community. It would be the biggest gently caress you/your expectation about that choice was wrong swerve on Telltale's part.
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May 18, 2014 16:59
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Has anyone confirmed for sure that the 400 Days characters match up with who decided to go? Because I know for a fact that Russel didn't go with Tavia, yet there he was in Episode 3, standing there with a gun. Unless the game hosed up the saves again in some undetectable way. The only people I had go were Bonnie, who was a given, and long-haired stoner guy whose name I can't remember.
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May 18, 2014 17:30
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Mine matched up.
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May 18, 2014 17:41
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Timeless Appeal posted:Mine matched up. Yep, same. Timeless Appeal posted:I actually wonder if the characters who didn't go with Octavia are going to show up and actually be more important than some of the characters who went with the community. It would be the biggest gently caress you/your expectation about that choice was wrong swerve on Telltale's part. They haven't really done a great job with the determinants this season, so I seriously doubt it. There's no variable character interactions such as with Ben, Lily or Kenny in season 1. I'd expect short cameos just like those in the compound at best. Of course I'll be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong, but after 3 episodes I think this is a fair assessment. I don't think an "x will remember that" has been referenced even a single time this season. THE PWNER fucked around with this message at 17:59 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 17:53
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Who was the guy in the truck in 400 days again? I wonder if he's going to show up at all.
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May 18, 2014 18:00
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Terror Sweat posted:No onscreen death means we'll probably see them again. This is why I think Matthew will be the bad guy of the last chapter. . Dude he was shot in the neck. You can't bullshit that.
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May 18, 2014 18:01
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This was probably my favourite chapter since midway through season 1. Holy poo poo. They've done such a believable job of 'hardening' Clem, and this chapter was probably the coup de grace for the 'nice clem'. She is straight up turning into Lee, and no matter what Carver tries to convince you of, there's no way Clem will ever be like Carver. I don't think I've ever felt such raw disgust towards anyone/anything in a movie/game before as I did with Carver in his last moments. I was fully aware that it was a dark, vengeful, execution -- And I didn't care. And I don't think Clem did either. He was a monster, not some tragic protector like he viewed himself. I can't wait for the next chapter.
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May 18, 2014 19:49
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Terror Sweat posted:There's a reason people can go to jail for being criminally negligent. The idiots spend all game finding out new ways to screw up and kill each other. Intentions don't mean poo poo when your actions hurt others. Sure, people can go to jail for being criminally negligent, but we don't live in some pure consequentialist world where we're judged purely by the outcomes of our actions. When your actions hurt others, intentions mean a lot. I mean by that reasoning we should hate Clementine for getting Lee and Omid killed, since if she hadn't been around and needed saving neither of them would've died in the process of saving her. There's a very real line about what's reasonable to expect from people, and it seems like some people's line is very, very near the outcomes side of things. That's one of the more interesting and revealing reactions to the Walking Dead game, I think, and drives a lot of the differences in how people see characters and make choices. I think the entire character of Ben was basically a test of that, and Kenny's arc in season 1 was all about being able to see the difference between what unintended consequences actions can have and what people were trying to do.
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May 18, 2014 19:52
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Something feels off about this whole season's writing, it shows in that most people seem to care about Season 1 characters Kenny/Christa then anyone we have met through 3 episodes of season 2.
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May 18, 2014 20:00
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Can someone tell me if Vince doesn't go with Tavia what happens in it's place? Because I think mine bugged and had the Walkie Talkie talk still happen
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May 18, 2014 20:24
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I didn't even realize the guy on the radio was supposed to be Vince. I thought the guy on the radio was the same guy that Tavia was talking to at the end of 400 Days.
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May 18, 2014 20:29
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In It For The Tank posted:I didn't even realize the guy on the radio was supposed to be Vince. I thought the guy on the radio was the same guy that Tavia was talking to at the end of 400 Days. That's not Vince. The guy on the radio is some random dude named Hank. Vince shows up just before leaving the stockroom after you steal the radios.
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May 18, 2014 20:33
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THE PWNER posted:They haven't really done a great job with the determinants this season, so I seriously doubt it. There's no variable character interactions such as with Ben, Lily or Kenny in season 1. I'd expect short cameos just like those in the compound at best. This season reminds me a bit of Alpha Protocol in the sense of the level of choice seeming limited because the choices aren't always apparent.
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May 18, 2014 20:52
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Timeless Appeal posted:One thing I like about the determinants in this season is that they seem a little more organic and out of your control. I was honestly surprised when I found out that Alvin and Nick could die in episode 2 because there wasn't a clearly telegraphed choice. As much as I love season 1, I didn't feel like I was taking the role of Lee as much as I was coauthoring the game. I was forging the Walking Dead story I wanted with the options given to me, and, for the most part, the feedback you received for those options were rather predictable. In season 2, they're making a very concentrated effort to play with those expectations and I appreciate it. Sure, but I'm referring much more to the character relationships than anything else. I can't agree with you that in S1 you got to coauthor the game - I feel like he was the same character, but the differences came from how the other characters saw him, rather than from a major personality shift. It was similar to how Clem in s2 can be snarky, kinda indifferent or friendly, but none of the options are dramatic character shifts and they all make sense. It feels like every conversation is happening in a vacuum now. Little that you say is being brought up later and it doesn't matter how much you try to get even the biggest characters to like or dislike you, they're gonna act the same either way. THE PWNER fucked around with this message at 21:17 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 21:04
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I feel like making you be a kid has robbed you of a lot of agency. Clem has to do a lot of things for the group to an insane level because if the player isn't actively doing stuff they will get bored and quit. But especially in episode 3 there's a lot of scenes where no matter what you do the outcome is basically the same (e.g. Reggie dies and Kenny takes credit for the walkie talke, and gets beaten to a pulp), while telltale does set up a lot of "fake choices" where you can't affect the outcome but instead affect how people feel that you tried or didn't try to prevent it, Clem gets stuck in situations where she can do nothing about it because she's a little kid. She's not strong or fast as Lee and people don't take her as seriously so just in general you feel more like an observer in most scenes.
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May 19, 2014 01:56
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RagnarokAngel posted:I feel like making you be a kid has robbed you of a lot of agency. Clem has to do a lot of things for the group to an insane level because if the player isn't actively doing stuff they will get bored and quit. But especially in episode 3 there's a lot of scenes where no matter what you do the outcome is basically the same (e.g. Reggie dies and Kenny takes credit for the walkie talke, and gets beaten to a pulp), while telltale does set up a lot of "fake choices" where you can't affect the outcome but instead affect how people feel that you tried or didn't try to prevent it, Clem gets stuck in situations where she can do nothing about it because she's a little kid. She's not strong or fast as Lee and people don't take her as seriously so just in general you feel more like an observer in most scenes. I don't really feel like an observer actually because drat, there are a lot of contrived excuses for why the kid has to be the one to do the dangerous thing (though they at least acknowledged this in this episode.) There were plenty of "fake choices" in S1 too, maybe not as many, but I think this has little to do with the protagonist being a kid. I'd say Telltale's just being a bit lazy, or maybe trying to fit everything into the 90 minute format, if the rest of the game is any indication. I do like this season a lot and I liked ep 3 in particular but I can't shake the feeling of TTG cutting corners. THE PWNER fucked around with this message at 02:13 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 02:07
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THE PWNER posted:I can't agree with you that in S1 you got to coauthor the game - I feel like he was the same character, but the differences came from how the other characters saw him, rather than from a major personality shift. I do think that this season allows you to define Clem a bit more than Lee. Lee is always going to be a good guy by virtue of the fact that he protects Clementine. Clem on the otherhand can just straight up be an rear end in a top hat to everyone.
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May 19, 2014 04:31
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Honestly it's hard to make Clem out to be an rear end in a top hat because all of these people started it and were dicks to her. If I left someone in a shed to die I would no longer expect any niceties from them in case they live.
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May 19, 2014 04:46
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I really like Kumail Nanjiani as a comedian and I think he's great in Silicon Valley, but goddamn he's bad at VA. I even liked his character but it seriously sounded like he was reading off a piece of paper.
veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 11:33 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 11:30
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NESguerilla posted:I really like Kumail Nanjiani as a comedian and I think he's great in Silicon Valley, but goddamn he's bad at VA. I even liked his character but it seriously sounded like he was reading off a piece of paper. I thought he was perfectly fine as Prismo.  Reggie was probably a bit out of his range, though. Reggie has a lot of stuff going on, moving him in a variety of conflicted ways, what with his friendship to the group, his desire to make his way back into the good graces of Carver, his fear of Carver, his non-confrontrationa nature, and generally good humor. He's well written and complex, but it'd be easy for the character to come off as just muddled, especially in the hands of someone who wasn't used to that kind of material.
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May 19, 2014 15:59
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So, having finally caught up after not playing Episode 2 for ages, I can say that as a proponent of the "It Is Lily" theory about the person Clem knew I was so loving happy to see Kenny. I literally jumped up and punched the sky triumphantly. I also found that Carver was a pretty effective villain. Very hateable and I was suprised that they killed him off at the end of episode 3. I will say that Kenny is becoming more and more like Big Boss, and I'm hoping that my Clem (who I have been playing as a slightly meaner, much smaller Lee) will be able to keep him grounded and not supercrazy. I would say Clem and Sarita, but after the bite... I went for amputation, but I dunno if that's gonna help that much. Sarah's beginning to get on my tits a bit, but at the same time I can kinda understand that not everyone can be the stone-cold badass that is S2 Clem. I do think that Carlos did her a disfavour by babying her, but I can see why he did. I taught her how to use a gun, but only after I saw that even if you refuse to she plays around with it and points it at Clem. This might have a SLIGHT chance of not having her kill a man. I was super pleased with the way that Season 2 has been going, and am looking forward to episodes 4 and 5.
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May 19, 2014 17:15
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