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I'm a little bit worried that Sana seems to be talking about Iroh in the past tense.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:50
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Thomas Chapter 2.1 - More Politics Than Your Castle Has Room For! Last time, we ended on a fantastic cliffhanger with Hugo regarding the Flame Champion Iroh.  This time, we'll do something completely unrelated, and see how Thomas is doing.  We join him bright and early, as his staring out a window is interrupted by a familiar guest.   : "Oh, okay. I'll do my best." : "Good luck. See you later." : "Not sure what more I have to do besides keep a journal."Indeed. Seems to be a quiet morning.  We've got a few nice additions to the castle since last time, thanks to our other characters. Of note, Arthur has been updating his newspaper. Newspaper Issue 2 posted:
The newspaper has plot updates as well as silly goings-on updates, which I really enjoy. It updates fairly often because it has so many, though, which means they're kind of easy to miss sometimes. Aside from that, nothing really happening. Also, I have the sudden burning desire to go to Iksay.  I arrange my party thusly.  And then, off we go!  Iksay is an easy trip because we don't have to run through a route to get there. At this point, routes aren't really dangerous at all, but the monsters and enemies haven't gotten an upgrade, so it's kind of below us to fight them.  Immediately upon entering Iksay, we trip a cutscene.   : "B-But it's just that I had no idea there was Zexen territory here." : "I don't need your excuses. You're useless. Now, where's that kid?"Not sure how much I like a Councilor roaming the town. Or looking for kids.  He takes notice of Thomas.  : "Uh, yes, sir.": "Good boy!" The knights rush over, and the councilor turns to Thomas again. : "All right, boy. Take us to the castle quickl! And don't get us lost, you hear?": "Uh, yes, sir." Nothing new in Iksay, though the dialogue and scenery puts us at pre-attack on the timeline, so lets take him back to Budehuc. I don't much like the Council, but I don't have any reason to deny him entry.   : "Not a very typical castle.": "What do you expect? This land was left behind by those savages. Right now, we need to find the master of this place. I think he was just appointed..." : "Thank goodness you're here! I received word that a Zexen Councilor's coming to our castle!"You're a little late, there, Sebastian.  : "Thomas?! Hm...? Don't tell me..."I love how terrible everyones timing is in this game.  The scene cuts as they take the councilman to the meeting room.  : "I-Is something the matter?": "It's rather obvious why your castle looks so rundown. You're out in the middle of nowhere. Don't you have trouble with savages attacking you here?"  : "Maybe I should show you how savage I am!" : "Not only are you carrying out business without proper approval of the Council, you're also allowing savages to profit from it! This is shocking indeed." : "This land is held commonly by Grassland and the Zexen Federation. Everyone is equal here.": "I understand that's an arrangement here, but--": "Yes, it is. So could I trouble you to leave us be?": "No, I can't. Your 'arrangement' is over a decade old. Meanwhile, you've received funding from us, so we have certain rights and rules that must be obeyed."There are a few scenes which make me really regret that this game isn't voice acted, and this is one of them. Can you imagine a bunch of really good voice actors delivering this scene? The councilor would have to be especially good.  : "What did you say?"He sneers.  : "You heard me." : "Uh, err, don't mind her. You're right... You are right, indeed."Sebastian gets between the two to block Cecile. : "Well, then, by authority of the Council, I hereby give notice. Any business carried out here that is not controlled by the Guild is subject to the laws of Zexen." : "This order is also retroactive to all businesses previously established." : "Huh? What do you mean by retroactive?" : "Therefore, no business will be exempt from closure!" : "We'd have no way to go on. The castle would fall into ruin. Zexen laws don't apply here!" : "You may cause a lot of trouble for your father by being such a spoiled brat. As you are his illegitimate child, your mere presence here is putting him in a tenuous position."Low blow. : "Well..."     : "Trouble him? But of course my intentions are nothing of the sort.": "What you're doing right now casts a bad light on him. We couldn't care less about this property's past standing. It's Zexen now!"  : "Have your things packed and prepare to evacuate the premises by the time I return!": "But, sir..." The councilor and knights leave before Thomas can give an argument. Not that I think Thomas actually had one to give.  An utter defeat.   : "R-Right... Thank you, Cecile." : "I can't move now. I'm too old and tired to move." So he says, but what can we do?  Self-preservation instinct, go! As you can imagine, all we have to do is go hunting for the next cutscene -- no significant dialogue changes, we can't leave the castle, and the newspaper has no update on the situation.  This sure looks like it'll trigger a cutscene.  : "Yeah, it's been a long day." : "I see. Have a good night, Thomas."Let's hope that tomorrow is better.  Muto begins to leave.  But he hesitates and Thomas seems to notice. : "Uh..." : "I can't bear to think of all of us forced out into the wilds, penniless." : "He's just bluffing." : "You think? Oh, my, that's a relief! Thank goodness! Whew! Maybe I can sleep now. Good night."   Hoo boy.  Next morning! We weren't interrupted during the night, so that's at least a marginally good sign, right? At the very least, we have a new issue of the Budehuc Times. Newspaper Issue 3 posted:
 Now, I think that councilman said he'd be back, and I'm worried that he hasn't busted down our door yet.  Oh, there he is.  : "These people suddenly showed up and...": "What's the matter?" : "Siege?" : "It's terrible. I was going out on my morning walk and these soldiers stopped me and turned me away. I can't believe it.": "What?" He takes a deep breath, closing his eyes to gather his thoughts, before approaching the councilor, eyebrows furrowed.   : "But why surround the castle? We have committed no crimes." Hey, remember when we were here as Hugo?  : "This looks like real trouble." : "What's going on this time?"     : "There's an official Zexen warrant out for his arrest.": "What?! My arrest?"  : "What a morning."As you may recall, next up we have the Budehuc powwow.  We get to see the scene from a bit earlier in this chapter. : "Well, things don't look too good."  : "Well, you heard the Council speak. But I don't believe you businesses will have to shut down along with the others."Sebastian, I think you're being too optimistic. The councilor pretty much directly stated that he was shutting everything down.  : "Well, I don't really care. Would you just decide on what you're going to do already? I'm starting to get hungry..." : "They're coming over here. Why not just ask them what they're going to do?" On cue, the Grasslanders bust into the scene.  : "Mr. Sebastian! What are you saying?! I'm sorry. Rest assured I would never ask you to do such a thing."As this is an overlap point, the scene fades out.  It fades back in just as the Grasslanders are leaving.  : "They may be visitors. But if they're just here to spy on us, that's different."  Once again, the scene fades.  Uhhhh what should we do?? Wouldn't it be nice if people would have some advice instead of just telling us to fix things? Thomas is still new to this lord thing, as if he was prepared for this kind of situation!  Oh, hey.  : "Maybe. Who's asking?"  : " 'This one?' How rude! I'm Apple." : "Apple, uh huh. Apple, it is.": "May I ask your business here?": "We're following rumors, so we snuck in and hid. But with all this hubbub happening we couldn't resist taking a peek outside.": "What rumors are you talking about?": "That the 'Fire Bringer' are hiding here. Were those other guys trying to confirm the same rumor?" : "You probably wouldn't tell us if you did. Perhaps you started the rumor to distract the Zexens. Or to scare people like us away.": "I doubt he considers us a threat."Caesar shakes his head in disappointment.  : "I don't think I like that.": "A good strategist should operate that way.": "Yes, yes...": "Just give it to us straight, okay?" "What am I doing talking to these weirdos."  : "We're not fond of the way things are shaping us around here. Let's meet in the courtyard. When all's ready, we'll leave the rest to you. Don't fret.": "Thanks! I mean it!": "Our pleasure. See you later!" We've got another example of between-cutscene-three-steps-of-freedom here. For reference, if you decide to talk to Caesar and Apple before heading to the courtyard, they say this. : "Don't just stand there! Let's go to the courtyard.": "Don't let his brashness put you off. He's actually pretty nice, once you get to know him." To the courtyard!  And to the second powwow.  : "Can we really trust you?"  : "......"Juan doesn't have any comebacks, so Caesar ignores him and continues his talk.  : "Of course, there's no way you can fight them, right?": "Y-yes...": "Then it's easy. Get rid of their reason for being here. Get the kid away from the castle. If he's what they want, why would they remain?": "Are you sure about this? It sounds too easy to work.": "Come on. Those guys may be knights, but they're really nothing more than a frontier patrol unit and a few guards under Council control. That wouldn't be enough to lay siege to this castle, but rest assured, the main unit will follow soon. So before that happens, we'll take the kid into Grassland. Then there'll be no reason for them to be here, and the knights will be withdrawn.": "I see." But do we get to hear the strategy?  Well, yes, actually. ( Caesar: 1; Lucretia: 0 ) : "Then what?": "Then Cecile will set up straw dummies up by that gate." : "And then there's the butler. I need you to write something out." : "Don't worry. You're just taking the castle master's place temporarily.": "Oh. Uh... of course, sir." : "Me? I don't take orders from anyone!": "Lose the attitude and follow the plan, will you? Yours is the most important role of all.": "Important? Forget it..." : "Uh... No, not at all...": "The fate of this castle depends on how you do. You should be proud to play such a part." : "That does it. Thomas, I'll leave the rest to you. Tomorrow it happens. I'm going back to the lodge, so keep your eyes peeled.": "Count on it!" Caesar turns to Juan and nods.   He and Apple then leave.  We're free to roam around now.  Hm, Martha's not in her usual spot. I guess we should track her down, along with the rest of the group. Big day ahead of us tomorrow, might as well check on things.    : "Here! Look at this! What do you think of these dummies?": "Uh, well... I guess those are all right. Yes, yes.": "One look at these guys, and I bet they'll run away in terror!": "One can only hope.": "Thank you, sir!"She's so excited.   Well, she's got things covered here, let's check in on some others.  Oh, hey, guys.  Fun fact: that hole will never be repaired. : "Hohohohoho...": "Well, let's do our best. We'll start at one end and fix things as we go along.": "... I wonder if this is really going to work..." : "I'll give it my best.": "Hohohoho..."Looks like things are going well-enough over here. Meanwhile, in the library...   : "..... I'm sure they were here somewhere...": "Please, my good man. You must try to remember." : "Oh, hello, Thomas. Yes, everything's fine. Leave it to me."And so ends that scene. Before we continue, though, there's something neat I'd like to show off.  Money! From the restaurant's sales! Okay, moving on.  We head to Thomas's room, and skip straight into night by doing so. : "But... I should also be...": "Not much more you can do now. Think of tomorrow, and get some sleep." Thomas bows.  Not quite the happiest thoughts to end the night on, but it's looking a bit hopeful. Thomas's scene with Hugo doesn't happen in this version of the chapter.  The next morning, we find our companions waiting in the courtyard.   Don't worry, kid. We've got this in the bag.  : "All right. Let's do it, then." The scene shifts as Caesar goes off to nab the Grasslanders, and the group reconfigures itself a bit closer to the entrance. : "Well, Hugo looks ready, so we're just about set. Ready, Thomas?": "Ready as I'll ever be. I'll do my best." Thomas still isn't feeling very sure of this whole situation (and honestly, who can blame him?), so Cecile gives him a little encouragement. : "Concentrate on defending the gate. Don't let anyone in! If we can hold them off long enough, they'll withdraw."We're just about ready to begin, but Caesar isn't quite done yet.  : "Take this." He hands Thomas a sealed envelope. : "What is it?": "Just hold onto it. If you get into trouble, open it up. The rest is up to you."Hmm...  We get a notification of having received !Bundle, but are no closer to knowing what it is just because we have it.  Well, let's worry about that later. For now, we've got some Zexens to thump. : "I understand.": "I was certain they'd wave the white flag right away. Hmm.": "Ah, yes, sir." First round is pretty simple -- just guarding. You want them to come to you first. After the turn ends, there's some more dialogue. : "Sir! A number of soldiers have appeared at the gates of Budehuc.": "Soldiers? How could that be?": "It's a mystery to me, sir."I can't believe they're falling for Ceciles straw dummies. : "It's always something... Send a detachment to find out what's happening." And this is where the battle gets a little interesting. : "Don't worry, Thomas. This is my castle, too! I don't intend to let it be taken.": "Ho ho ho ho." For some reason, Thomas's bunch has a wind rune, which brings me to something I believe is new to strategy battles this far -- the use of runes.  Obviously, the effect of the rune varies depending on what kind it is, but basically we get a freebie attack on enemies with them. Or, under some conditions, a heal. If you attack an enemy unit with a rune, they can't counter you that turn, so it's pretty useful.  At the same time, the damage isn't usually that great, and you generally don't have many casts, so they're not always the best things to use, depending on the situation. For reference, the wind rune actually has a range of two, so I could have attacked unit 3 instead of unit 2 if I wanted.  : "What is it?": "Councilor, a notice of prosecution has been filed against you, sir!": "Notice of prosecution? Pathetic. Naturally, one of my jealous colleagues wanted to take over my responsibilities here...": "Sir, no... The notice was filed by the Zexen Knights.": "WHAT?!" : " 'Our'?": "We're going with you. Did you think I would stay in a hole of a place like this forever?" Two new units pop up on the map, on cue. : "Stick it to them, Hugo! You too, Sergeant!": "Sure thing. See you later.": "When things get back to normal, I hope you come back to visit! You could even open a shop...": "Er... That's a decision for my mother to make." : "Heeeeeeere we go!" And, finally, we get the updated victory condition.  Well, let's start things off with a bang, shall we?  The unit immediately tries to flee, but that means we've still got a good turn to give them their first taste of a nice thrashing. Twaikin here is making his first battle debut, and in a strategy battle no less!   And what a debut.  Thomas misses, but Piccolo decides to pick up the slack, slaughtering that poor infantryman.  By holding Lilly and Hugo back for another turn, we can get another few swings in at that poor unit.        The unit is utterly defeated, which means we can take it easy for the rest of the battle.  Two turns later, the Grasslanders break out. : "I'm glad we've gotten this far away, but oooh, my legs are killing me!": "My good Apple, if you continue to be a bookworm, your legs will atrophy and fall off.": "What would I do without your pleasantries.": "We escaped safely, but how safe is the castle?" The Grassland group then poofs off of the map, and dialogue continues. : "We have written orders from Brass Castle to cease and desist until further notice. We will pull back and wait.": "Nonsense! What orders? That ridiculous letter?!": "They state that the Councilor has made false accusations.": "But I observed the Grassland fugitives within that castle!": "Thomas -- quickly, quickly." : "Impudent peasant!": "Until the presence of fugitives here can be confirmed or denied, we must stand down.": "You demon servants!" The Zexens poof off the map. : "They're retreating! Thomas, see for yourself!": "What a relief. At last...": "I expect they will bother us no more.": "If only that was so..." Juan appears to the east. If we had gotten a normal victory, the conversation would have ended after that line. : "Juan!": "You're looking well.": "Wait until you hear what happened!": "Hmm?": "We triumphed in battle!": "You don't say...": "It's true. Here's the proof. The enemy dropped this when they were retreating!": "Wouldn't it be nice if it could pay off our debts." As it stands, we get a major victory instead. The requirement is defeating one of the enemy units. And probably not losing any units or failing the goal. I don't know, this one's pretty easy. We get a counter ring as our prize. As the name suggests, it increases the counter attack rank of whoever is wearing it.  Next morning, we've got a new news article for our troubles. Newspaper Issue 4 posted:
Pleasant. Let's check and make sure we've got no Zexens on our doorstep.  Oh, hey Cecile.  Same here.  : "What's the matter, Thomas?": "Well, I hope that's the end of it." As if. Next time, that's not the end of it!
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Feb 1, 2014 02:53
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Well, Caesar is already winning me over. First big battle he's involved in, and he's actually doing what a strategist should do: come up with ideas and then explain them to everyone, including the player. Plus, I don't want to punch him in the face for being "Vague And Mysterious Because gently caress You, That's Why", unlike another strategist from the series. Also, Caesar being perma- might have something to do with it. Maybe.
AradoBalanga fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 04:44
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You know, back when S3 was new, I was kind of annoyed that Caesar was even around. Seriously, Apple's one of the few people to be in all of the first three games. This would've been a good chance to let her take charge for once and show off what she's learned in the past 20 years. I wondered why Konami felt the need to prop up the Silverbergs yet again. Then we got Suikoden 5 and got our first non-Silverberg strategist (not counting Shu, who was trained by a Silverberg) in Lucretia. I'm fine with the Silverbergs now.
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Feb 1, 2014 05:34
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Apple could never take charge, I'm afraid. she was already established as the worst strategist of all time in suikoden 2.
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Feb 1, 2014 06:01
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Sad as it is, that pun made me laugh, and I really needed one. I love this thread, thank you for updating
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Feb 1, 2014 07:36
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GulagDolls posted:Apple could never take charge, I'm afraid. she was already established as the worst strategist of all time in suikoden 2. Just as important, Suikoden II establishes that Apple cracks badly under pressure. You might notice if you look back at Hugo 3 that Apple is doing a lot more of the legwork than Caesar, and has a better grasp on their assets and what they're up against than him. Which makes sense, while Caesar's had some training, he's more or less travelling around learning Mathiu's techniques from Apple. So in a lot of ways Apple is doing the heavy lifting in terms of strategy here, but with Caesar making the final calls and adapting plans on the fly, her biggest flaws are compensated nicely. CmdrKing fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 08:17
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The woof over my head. The woof over my head. Meatballs? Hot? Meatballs? Well, at least it wasn't another  hurr women who can't cook are hilarious joke...Low-level stuff is kind of the thing Suikoden does, but I wish there were more games that did really low-level stuff like this. It's like a micro-Suikoden within the Suikoden, and  .
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Feb 1, 2014 13:03
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Mmm. Spicy meatballs. Definitely better than "Mystery Experiment Meatballs" which would be the usual trope. Also, yay for Thomas chapters. They were quite adorable. Though I recall all strategy fights being really hard (whilst at the same time not having to retry them? Maybe just the helpless way the conflicts run?)
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Feb 1, 2014 13:19
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Suspect Bucket posted:
Haha, glad to help. Sorry it took so long, actually. Work was kinda busy, and then last weekend was shot because of the Global Game Jam (which was awesome.) Muto is the saddest, most adorable brain-damaged puppy. vilkacis posted:The woof over my head. He gets a fair number of silly dog-puns, and I love them all. vilkacis posted:Meatballs? Hot? Tylana posted:Mmm. Spicy meatballs. Definitely better than "Mystery Experiment Meatballs" which would be the usual trope. I like to imagine that Thomas is just that much of a wimp.  AradoBalanga posted:Well, Caesar is already winning me over. First big battle he's involved in, and he's actually doing what a strategist should do: come up with ideas and then explain them to everyone, including the player. Plus, I don't want to punch him in the face for being "Vague And Mysterious Because gently caress You, That's Why", unlike another strategist from the series. Yeah, I'm quite fond of how open he is about his plans, comparatively. He doesn't do a super great job at explaining things as a whole, but he tells people what they need to know and what they need to be doing. Bufuman posted:You know, back when S3 was new, I was kind of annoyed that Caesar was even around. Seriously, Apple's one of the few people to be in all of the first three games. This would've been a good chance to let her take charge for once and show off what she's learned in the past 20 years. I wondered why Konami felt the need to prop up the Silverbergs yet again. GulagDolls posted:Apple could never take charge, I'm afraid. she was already established as the worst strategist of all time in suikoden 2. CmdrKing posted:Just as important, Suikoden II establishes that Apple cracks badly under pressure. You might notice if you look back at Hugo 3 that Apple is doing a lot more of the legwork than Caesar, and has a better grasp on their assets and what they're up against than him. Which makes sense, while Caesar's had some training, he's more or less travelling around learning Mathiu's techniques from Apple. So in a lot of ways Apple is doing the heavy lifting in terms of strategy here, but with Caesar making the final calls and adapting plans on the fly, her biggest flaws are compensated nicely. I kind of see them as a single unit, most of the time. They've both got their share of disadvantages, and are compensating for each other. As CmdrKing said, Apple is doing a lot of the supporting jobs for their strategies, running half way around the Grasslands to find backup, scolding Juan into not being a huge rear end in a top hat, and otherwise making up for Caesar being overall young and inexperienced since she's come to the realization that she doesn't do well under stress. However, Caesar is a lot calmer and laid-back, so coming up with the plans (with help) and adjusting them based on how well or poorly things are going falls pretty well onto him. He's learned and understands the tactics and theories of battles, but he's new to actual practice of it, which is where Apple comes in. There's also that proverb, "those that can't do, teach," which I guess applies to the situation. Not that I think Apple is incapable or anything, and I actually do feel bad that she couldn't step into the spotlight after being the support strategist the entire series up to that point, but yeah. Also, they'd have to change her star if they changed her role, so there's that too.
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Feb 1, 2014 17:14
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Oh Muto. I don't think I'll ever get tired of seeing the Zexen Councilmen get humilated and given the runaround by everyone else under the sun. They kind of remind me of a slightly more competent Kraze and Kanaan from I, what with being mustache-twirlingly evil and dismissive of anyone they view as being beneath them (read: everyone), although...well, spoilers and such. Erk in danger!
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Feb 2, 2014 02:28
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I can think of few characters in a JRPG I've loved to hate as much as the Zexen Councilmen. gently caress those guys, good lord
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Feb 2, 2014 05:38
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Captain Oblivious posted:I can think of few characters in a JRPG I've loved to hate as much as the Zexen Councilmen. There's plenty, believe me. Within a second of reading that, Rogue (MMSF) and Yuna (BoF4) immediately popped into my head. I am pretty sure I could make a rather long list if I bothered to stop and think about it.
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Feb 2, 2014 07:09
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Skies of Arcadia has something like five of the bastards, but that game oozes enough over-the-top style that everyone in that game's a favorite character.
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Feb 2, 2014 07:20
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Bufuman posted:You know, back when S3 was new, I was kind of annoyed that Caesar was even around. Seriously, Apple's one of the few people to be in all of the first three games. This would've been a good chance to let her take charge for once and show off what she's learned in the past 20 years. I wondered why Konami felt the need to prop up the Silverbergs yet again. Well you see, Konami is controlled by the world-wide Jewish conspiracy, and furthermore, But yeah seriously, it's been well established that while Apple is very intelligent and knowledgeable, she can't formulate a strategy worth a drat.
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Feb 2, 2014 07:44
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Apple is a great counterbalance for Ceasar, helps keep him in check. I wish Suikoden V had that for Lucretia, instead of Lelei, who was little more than a swooning yes-man. Yes-woman, whatever. I'm pretty sure Elenor is my favourite strategist in the series and I'm not even sure why.
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Feb 2, 2014 17:47
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Delsaber posted:Apple is a great counterbalance for Ceasar, helps keep him in check. I wish Suikoden V had that for Lucretia, instead of Lelei, who was little more than a swooning yes-man. Yes-woman, whatever. Probably because she spends the entire game drunk off her rear end and being so very done with everything. She may not be the most effective strategist (her success speaks more towards how incompetent the villains in Suik 4 were as opposed to her own skill) but she's definitely the most enjoyable character out of the strategists. However, Ceasar comes close in the race for most enjoyable.
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Feb 4, 2014 04:02
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Delsaber posted:Apple is a great counterbalance for Ceasar, helps keep him in check. I wish Suikoden V had that for Lucretia, instead of Lelei, who was little more than a swooning yes-man. Yes-woman, whatever. The other strategists seem so poised all the time (even Cesar in his own way), but Elenor is constantly grumpy and I love her for it.
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Feb 4, 2014 10:00
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Delsaber posted:Apple is a great counterbalance for Ceasar, helps keep him in check. I wish Suikoden V had that for Lucretia, instead of Lelei, who was little more than a swooning yes-man. Yes-woman, whatever. Agreed with pretty much everything here. Ceasar would be kind of obnoxious on his own and Apple is a bit too soft by herself, but together they're a good team. Elenor on the otherhand is a great combination of drunk and crotchety. She probably spent the whole game wishing she had a lawn just so she could tell people to get off it.
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Feb 4, 2014 21:54
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Elite posted:Elenor on the otherhand is a great combination of drunk and crotchety. She probably spent the whole game wishing she had a lawn just so she could tell people to get off it. The ocean was Elenor's lawn. Everyone wanted to get off it, so it didn't need to be said.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:14
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If I had to spend any time in Suikoden IV I'd be drunk off my rear end, too.
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Feb 5, 2014 11:02
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Just a heads up for you all -- this month is going to be nuts (and already is, actually), so I'm gonna be pretty slow with updating and stuff. So just bear with me for a while, I guess. I'll try to update as often as possible, but I don't have much time to work on it right now. Also, the Erk's Adventures readings by Zosephine are still happening, but she's waiting on a new microphone before she can do the new ones. I'll be retroactively adding them to the update, as well as posting them in the normal comments when they're up and ready to go.
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Feb 6, 2014 07:42
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 Did you say "bear"?!I think most of the strategists would agree that LP gets a back seat when other things need doing. Except maybe Lucretia. But no one should listen to Lucretia because she is a dick.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:11
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vilkacis posted:
 Guess he just can't "bear" it!Everyone seems to be getting busier this time of year. Ah well, nothing to be done for it.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:52
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Captain Oblivious posted:I can think of few characters in a JRPG I've loved to hate as much as the Zexen Councilmen.
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Feb 8, 2014 19:12
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One of those Zexen councilors is going to get straight-up shanked by somebody he's insulting, and then be all like "BWUUUHHHH?! But, but my money! Did Sonic the Hedgehog lie to me?"
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Feb 11, 2014 06:37
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If I can get a mod's permission (who should I ask?) would it be alright if I posted a few scans from the manga since we won't be getting many updates for awhile? It's been out of print for years and Tokyo Pop is dead. I don't want to post the whole thing, but there are a few scenes that I'm fond of.
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Feb 19, 2014 03:22
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There's a scene in the manga that's... semi-implied in the game but never stated, which takes place after Geddoe 3 but before the meat of Chapter 4. If absolutely nothing else, we just HAVE to have those pages in the thread when the time comes.
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Feb 19, 2014 06:05
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I always liked Caesar because he is a strategist who actually makes me-as-the-main-character feel like I'm actually the leader. I never cared for any of the others for precisely that reason. The others don't tell you poo poo because, I don't know, it's more dramatic that way? Even though it makes no sense for you, the leader, to not know that Shu is going to fake a defection or that Lucretia is going to use her telepathy again. Also he's fallible and has room for growth still at the end of the game, which would be nice if Konami was ever going to continue the Suikoden narrative. I also like his eyebrows, which are very expressive.
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Feb 19, 2014 07:31
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Defiance Industries posted:I always liked Caesar because he is a strategist who actually makes me-as-the-main-character feel like I'm actually the leader. I never cared for any of the others for precisely that reason. The others don't tell you poo poo because, I don't know, it's more dramatic that way? Even though it makes no sense for you, the leader, to not know that Shu is going to fake a defection or that Lucretia is going to use her telepathy again. Also he's fallible and has room for growth still at the end of the game, which would be nice if Konami was ever going to continue the Suikoden narrative. Well, to be fair, in a lot of the cases you're less an ACTUAL leader and more a figurehead. In 1 and 2 you don't have any leadership experience after all. you're just the son of a famous general, and the son of a famous general who has some military training respectively.
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Feb 19, 2014 10:26
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RaspberryCommie posted:Well, to be fair, in a lot of the cases you're less an ACTUAL leader and more a figurehead. In 1 and 2 you don't have any leadership experience after all. you're just the son of a famous general, and the son of a famous general who has some military training respectively. In 1 don't they actually say "you know jack and poo poo about leading an army, but people will follow you so go rally them up and do as we tell you."
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Feb 19, 2014 10:55
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Dogwood Fleet posted:If I can get a mod's permission (who should I ask?) would it be alright if I posted a few scans from the manga since we won't be getting many updates for awhile? It's been out of print for years and Tokyo Pop is dead. I don't want to post the whole thing, but there are a few scenes that I'm fond of. CmdrKing posted:There's a scene in the manga that's... semi-implied in the game but never stated, which takes place after Geddoe 3 but before the meat of Chapter 4. If absolutely nothing else, we just HAVE to have those pages in the thread when the time comes. I was planning to cover the manga at the end with like a synopsis and some scans and saying what I think was done well and/or poorly compared to the game, but I'm fine with you posting some yourselves that we can talk about, so long as mods are cool with it. (I'd been meaning to ask them myself but hadn't gotten around to it, whoops!) I would greatly prefer if you ran it by me before posting anything, though, just to make sure you don't post anything that could spoil the game or anything. I don't have PMing on here, though, so I guess you can hit me up on steam or elsewhere? Steam name is the same, just make sure you tell me who you are and stuff. Also, sorry about still being slow. Things are easing up a little bit, though, so that's at least a step in the right direction. Not sure if I'll be able to have an update for you this week, but I will try to update some time on the weekend.
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Feb 19, 2014 18:40
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yokaiy posted:I was planning to cover the manga at the end with like a synopsis and some scans and saying what I think was done well and/or poorly compared to the game, but I'm fine with you posting some yourselves that we can talk about, so long as mods are cool with it. (I'd been meaning to ask them myself but hadn't gotten around to it, whoops!) I would greatly prefer if you ran it by me before posting anything, though, just to make sure you don't post anything that could spoil the game or anything. I don't have PMing on here, though, so I guess you can hit me up on steam or elsewhere? Steam name is the same, just make sure you tell me who you are and stuff. I'm a great big dummy and sent a friend request without any other info, so if you see a friend request it's probably from me.
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Feb 19, 2014 19:10
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*skims own copy* Since it's only a spoiler if you actually look it up (PS don't if you haven't played the game), in particular I'm referring to pages ~155-165 in volume 5. Scans of pg. 158-159 probably get the gist across. There's a question people will probably have when we get to Chapter 4, and I think that little sequence gives us a good answer that's only kinda implied in-game. You may also remember people saying things like "there's one scene in the manga that justifies the whole thing", and it'd be this one. e: I don't have a scanner myself to be clear. Mind the game goes a lot faster once we're through chapter 3 generally, so if yoikay'd rather wait until we finish to do manga-talk generally that'd be fine too. Volume 5 would kinda be the high point of that discussion in general, it has a rather amazing battle scene in it.
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Feb 19, 2014 19:52
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CmdrKing posted:*skims own copy* Oh, yes. I am pretty sure I know what scene you're talking about and yes, I feel like posting that when we get there would be not only completely fine, but appropriate. Not sure about other parts, though. I think it'd be case-by-case depending on the specific scenes. I'll probably still do a general manga overview at the end anyway, since there are a lot of things we can't discuss from the manga until the end or close to it.
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Feb 20, 2014 05:07
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yokaiy posted:Oh, yes. I am pretty sure I know what scene you're talking about and yes, I feel like posting that when we get there would be not only completely fine, but appropriate. I'm looking at a few bits from the beginning and the end of volume 1. They handled something at the end differently and I prefer that version.
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Feb 20, 2014 05:23
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Just caught up - I'm a huge fan of the Suiko series but always regretted living in a PAL region as there never was a PAL release of Suiko3. Actually, do own a copy of the NTSC one from like 2008 even though I've never played it. Thanks to this thread, I'll be definitely look into my options so that I may play this marvel of a game and get my Silverburg on. Great art, great discussions but I've gotta say its really different from every other entry in the series that I've played with the multiple MCs and best of all, imo Thomas. Really loving his story.
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Feb 20, 2014 13:57
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Thomas Chapter 2.2 - Bude-what now? Good morning, Thomas. Last time, we kicked a Zexen Councilor off our lawn in a way that I'm sure won't come back to bit us in the rear end, so I'm feeling pretty good today! How about we go for a nice stroll.  ... Yes.  Okay, let's go back now. (In order to get more plot going, the requirement is to leave the area and then come back. I decided to walk to Vinay so that I could take on the treasure boss in the mines, but it's not even worth showing off since it's the same one but even less difficult now.)  Oh, that doesn't look good. Thomas and Cecile exchange worried glances.  The knights turn to face Thomas, and Leo glances at Percival, frowning.  : "I heard he was young. But he's nothing but a boy." Percival, being the milder and more polite of the two, steps forward.  : "You must be Thomas, the master of Budehuc Castle.": "I am. How can I be of service?" For some reason the scene fades and everyone changes positions. I guess this was news for everyone, not just Thomas. I don't think I like that.  : "I bring you news from the Council. The first item concerns Durabum."  : "Harras is the Deputy Commander of the Knights. The case is currently being reviewed."Durabum is the Councilor who gave us issues last time. I forgot he had a name. So far, this news sounds pretty good, though. Maybe I was worrying for nothing. : "This is good news. Good news for all of us.": "They're also reviewing the alleged joint ownership of your land and leasing rights for this land." : "Well... I said it was under review."It's very like Martha to be pushy about things, even if it's comforting someone about a decision that hasn't been actually made yet. : "What do you mean there's nothing to be worried about?"It's very like Juan to be negative, as well. : "Plus, I relay a decision handed down by the Council. Thomas, master of Budehuc Castle...": "Yes?"Leo closes his eyes for a moment.  What?!  : "It means you're only the master until noon tomorrow."  No, no, no, no. The news started off so good! How did this happen? : "Uh, but... My father... That man...": "We'll come for you tomorrow at noon. You'd best get ready. You're going back to Vinay del Zexay." : "Not any more. We're proclaiming this common land as Zexen Federation territory. The Council has made its decision."Leo nods and starts to leave. : "This can't be! This castle was given to me by my father." Thomas turns his attention to Percival, who had lingered after Leo and stepped forward to lay on some more news.   : "I'm sorry.": "My own father?"With his condolences, Percival leaves as well.  Wow. Poor Thomas.  The boy is left in a stupor. I think everyone is.  Cecile tries to lift everyone's spirits...  But even her magical-girl levels of peppiness can't help now.   They'd resisted so well, but in the end, they were powerless against the Council.  : "...."I wouldn't have any if I were him either.  : "We've got to revert to how things were. We'll have to sell our valuables to pay off our debts. Then we resume our simple, quiet lives. If this is going to be Zexen territory, they'll probably help us out with funding, at least a little. Besides, we might get some rich kid as our next castle master.": "Juan...": "It's not going to be that easy."   : "I want it to stay that way!": ".... Right... Sorry. He's still the castle master, until noon tomorrow.": "That's not what I meant!" : "No, I won't!" Defeated.  Thomas heads inside, as his companions split apart to let him pass. : "End... Huh! It's hard to imagine." I guess this really is the end for Thomas. There's a new article, but I'm not sure I have the heart to be excited for it. Newspaper Issue 5 posted:
Nevermind, it was kind of great. But we need to be sad still.  Forget today, it's been terrible. Tomorrow isn't looking any better, but at least things will all be over. : "... I think I'll go to bed. After all, tomorrow, I'll be..." That night, however.  It's our last night in this castle. It wouldn't hurt to take a look around one final time. We may have only been here a short while, but we've made some good memories. We'll start with the library.  : "You're working awfully late, Eike. Researching something?": "...... Yes.": "What is it?" Wow, look at these nice camera angles. : "Why now? Isn't it too late now?": "...... I always finish what I start."I feel like there's some advice here that's too subtle for Thomas to pick up on in his current state. : "Very thorough. Best of luck."Thomas starts to leave, expecting nothing else out of Eike.    We run into Sebastian on the stairs. I wonder if everyone is still awake?  : "Oh, hello, Thomas! I hope I didn't wake you.": "I couldn't sleep anyway. What are you up to?": "I-I was just preparing the journal for you to make your entry. With all this fighting, I just haven't been on top of it." : "Journal? I'm leaving tomorrow, so why do you have to do that?" Much like with Eike, I feel like Sebastian is dropping hints that Thomas isn't picking up. : "Huh?": "Never mind. So, uh, I still have some work left to do." Weird.  Muto, why am I always finding you near this hole in the wall?  : "Oh, Thomas. I'm fixing the wall, here. If we're going to fight again...": Muto... Don't worry. All this will end when I leave this castle. You'll all go back to your normal lives."   : "You'd better go to bed right away. You wouldn't want to catch a cold.": "Uh... Right, sure..."Oh, Muto. What are we going to do with you?  So, we're not really allowed to go many places. I guess it's back up to our room, then.    : "Um, Thomas... There was something I wanted to ask you..."They move over to the overhang by the elevator.  : "Do you honestly plan on surrendering your title here?": "What choice do I have?"He hesitates, but she doesn't chime in, so he continues.  : "But?" He trails off.  This is actually him running his hand through his hair in that way people do when they are stressed and sad. Just thought I'd point that out, as I usually do with animations I like. I didn't get enough good shots of it to make a .gif, though. : "Then, then, why did you become the master of this castle in the first place? Wasn't it your choice to come here?" : "Cecile...": "Didn't you come here for us?": "I wish. Before I came here, I'd never heard of Budehuc Castle. I was actually forced to become the castle master here, and I wasn't too happy about it.": "W-Why wouldn't you want to come here?"He turns away from her. : "I was happy living with my mother in the northern Outlands. But she died about three months before I came here.": "....."   Very sneaky, guys. : "That's why I came to the Zexen Federation. I could have survived in the Outlands," : "Can you blame me?"  : "Oh, yes. I remember something about that. So, you finally made it, eh?": "Uhhh...": "Come to think of it, I know of a castle without a master. What was the name of it? Oh, never mind. I'll think of it and make the arrangements. I'll appoint you master of that castle. You won't be any trouble there.": "M-Master of a castle?": "Once I finish the arrangements, could you leave Vinay del Zexay immediately? It wouldn't be good for you to wander about here.": "Uh, yes... Sure.": "Well, this gets rid of two problems at once. How fortunate.": "Oh...."We've seen this scene before, but that doesn't make it any less depressing.  : "What better way than to make me master of a remote castle? I had no idea what to do, and I still don't. I can't live up to your expectations."  Welp.  Today's the day.  Goodbye, Budehuc. You were wonderful.  : "Yes, I'm ready.": "Well, then..."  Here we go. We get stopped at the bottom of the steps for some final goodbyes, it seems, as well as some words from our knight friends here. : "As of noon today, Thomas will no longer be master of Budehuc Castle. He shall be returned to Vinay del Zexay in our company." Thomas hesitates before turning to address the group.   She looks away, as if refusing to acknowledge the events. : "Martha..."   They begin to leave, but...   Cecile, what are you doing? : "Cecile..." : "I'm sorry, but you'll have to get out of my way. As a member of the Zexen Federation, you should know that it's your job to obey orders.": "I don't care what you say! I'm -- I'm -- the commander of the guards, appointed by Thomas! So -- So... Thomas -- Thomas --" Thomas steps in before things can escalate.  : "No way! You can't just give in! It's not right. Your father made you come here, didn't he? So now he tells you to go and that's the end of it? It's not... It's not because you're the master of the castle that I'm protecting this castle." : "That's why I'm protecting this castle. So, if you go -- if you leave -- " : "...."   : "There are still many more things to clear up -- so perhaps we could have another two or three days?" Muto and Sebatian immediately deflate upon Leo's retort. : "....": "Thomas, we'll allow you a few more hours. Take that time to say your good-byes and put your affairs in order.": ".....": "Thomas.....": "Uh, yes... I've been doing some calculations, and it seems that it'll be difficult to maintain this castle at this rate, so Thomas's idea of leasing out land is our only...": "It's over now. You can all stop this." : "Thomas...": "Well, shall we go then?" Thomas continues to hesitate for a few moments.  But his expression changes. Why had he been the only one to give up? How foolish he'd been.  : "I'm going to stay with everyone. I'm going to protect this castle! You can go and tell my father that!"He's no longer the meek child looking for a father's affection that he was before coming here. He's a castle lord. And he'll fight for that. And I'm really proud of him. : "Thomas..."  Juan! : "What did you say?"  Look at everyone. : "Juan... You guys...": "Don't be so passive, Thomas. I hate that about you."  : "If you go, I don't know if I could handle another strange one coming here to be our castle master." That's not even an argument, you adorable dog-man.  : "I'm one of the Six Mighty Zexen Knights, you know!" I'm sorry, but this is actually making me quite fond of Juan. : "..." : "Huh?" : "Just leave, before things get ugly." Eike.  Percy is just so done with this whole thing. He doesn't want to listen to the Council anyway. : "But..."Leo's a bit too impulsive to settle down so easily. He's gotten all riled up bickering with the shop keepers. : "If you keep swinging your axe around here, you'll only make things worse." You're also surrounded. I mean, we're not knights or anything, but we've got a magical-girl, a fight fighter, and a magic genie man. I'm pretty sure we could take you. We've also got ninjas. Just saying.   : "If that's how you feel, there is nothing else I can say. Thomas, I wish you the best of luck." The knights leave. I think they're probably secretly glad that Thomas stood up to them like that, going against the Council where they don't really have the power to.  Juan stays on the offensive until they're off the grounds, which is an interesting bit of proactivity from him. He drops his hands pretty quickly once they leave, but still. : "Thank goodness they left quietly! If I'd actually had to fight two of the Might Six Knights of Zexen, I'd be dead no matter how many fists I had!"He shrugs a lot. : "So, you're just a coward.": "Hmph. In any case, our troubles are far from over. Next time, they won't come just to talk. And the regular Zexen army seems to be very close by."  : "It's Budehuc Castle, Thomas."You've lived here for how long now? : "Uh, I'm sorry. Bude-what again?..." : "Perhaps you'd like to give this castle a new name?": "But there's, um, history behind it, right?" : "And you, Thomas, are the master of this castle, after all." : "Orange Castle!"(This name "Orange Castle" is a nod to a running gag in the series.)  And so, ladies and gentlegoons, I bring you a staple of the series.  Naming your castle. You've got 8 letters to work with, have at. Bold your suggestions. Much like when you named Iroh, most popular one wins. I'm going to go ahead and suggest Castle Anthrax.
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Feb 23, 2014 08:22
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Since Dontgonearthe Castle it too long, I suggest Avoidthe Castle.
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Feb 23, 2014 08:43
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| # ? May 29, 2024 09:20 |
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Castle White because if the game wants us to use a color it should also be a hamburger joke. Plus then a lot of recruit dialogue will be "you think I should go to White Castle huh?"
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Feb 23, 2014 08:43
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