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Code worked, thanks
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Apr 29, 2024 13:09
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Megasabin posted:Yeah. I’d still like to draft more, but it’s brutal. Maybe best of 3 would be better. I’d rather not do a not draft I sometimes play Bo3 towards the end of a season when I'm losing too much in plat/diamond. You will definitely win more, I just checked my stats and since I started using 17lands I have 69% game wins and 78% match wins in trad draft compared to 57% premier draft. If you want to go infinite and win a thousand packs a set you could easily just grind Bo3, but I don't usually enjoy it as much as PD.
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Apr 29, 2024 14:36
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God this set is just crushing me. I think i've got a total of 3 wins out of like 7 drafts and a sealed at this point  I'm not not enjoying the games but I'm just either missing something major about the draft, not playing to the standard of the rank I'm at, or both, and I'm honestly just starting to wonder again whether it's worth my time grinding in standard and brawl to get my face kicked in in draft once or twice a week. E: 8 wins out of 8 events. Yeah.
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Apr 29, 2024 15:30
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Simply Simon posted:I take longer on a QD because the big advantage is that you have all the time in the world to make your pick. I look up stats and weigh which way the deck is going etc. I've found that the individual card evaluations matter a lot less in this set than synergy -- a great card in one archetype is a dead card in another, even when the overall deck is the same colors. The Wicked ZOGA posted:Who wants to see the most bomb-heavy draft in human history I hope you do well but worry that you're gonna be too dead to play most of those. Your early game is wide open and the dragons don't become useful 'til later.
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Apr 29, 2024 15:56
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I keep going into drafts telling myself not to get tunnel vision on green, but green still always feels open. There are just so many good commons and uncommons, you can probably go no-rares AND none of the top 5 green commons/uncommons and still make a really competitive deck Dance of the Tumbleweeds and Tumbleweed Rising in particular still feel badly underrated, I’m getting those in the back half of packs which is too late. I think with a little luck you could trophy with a deck that contained only those two cards 11x
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Apr 29, 2024 16:09
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thespaceinvader posted:God this set is just crushing me. youre probably drafting fine decks but this set has a much higher skill ceiling than most. if you gently caress up at all, you are opening the door to getting brutally punished by allowing the game to go 1 turn longer than it should and letting a very powerful card come online. good players are winning a higher % of games and worse (but still good!) players are losing more because you have to play extremely tight. even not sending a guy on an attack when you should have, taking a trade, not taking a trade, not putting them on the right trick, not seeing that they are playing towards an X spell will all make you drop otherwise won games. I lost a game today where I didnt send honest rutstein to attack because i wanted the cost reduction online and three turns later they were at 2 and dropped a calamity that took me from 16 to 0. sending the attack would not have been lethal that turn but the cost reduction did not matter enough not to push the damage and trade off with their blocker, allowing a different shitter to get in. This is what I meant in an earlier post about being too precious with creatures and not putting them in combat. I lost that game with my play and it killed a run at 3-3 with a deck that probably should have gone 7-2 if not for pilot error
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Apr 29, 2024 16:15
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discounted draft token in the store today. probably better to use coins for this one since it's discounted 10% from the price of 7.5k instead of 10k
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Apr 29, 2024 16:25
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Time posted:youre probably drafting fine decks but this set has a much higher skill ceiling than most. if you gently caress up at all, you are opening the door to getting brutally punished by allowing the game to go 1 turn longer than it should and letting a very powerful card come online. good players are winning a higher % of games and worse (but still good!) players are losing more because you have to play extremely tight. Yeah I've had this experience a lot. It was opposing Roxanne this time, which makes it doubly sting that in the draft I got my own Roxanne, I didn't fuckin see her once. I'm definitely not playing perfectly, which doesn't help - because, of course, I'm getting very little practice, because I keep losing. I'm getting tired of it.
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Apr 29, 2024 16:35
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thespaceinvader posted:Yeah I've had this experience a lot. thats a tough spot to be in, and i hope my post didnt read as "play better" but instead just my thoughts on the format and why it can feel bad even when your deck is great
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Apr 29, 2024 16:55
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Nah it's chill. I've recognised a few gameplay mistakes but I don't think I've ever been in a position where even playing a decent feeling deck that was firing well on all cylinders I was actually stable and in a winning position. I've had a lot of 'just run out of steam and started drawing a bunch of lands even with card selection' and i]ve had a bunch of 'here's an unbeatable bomb I topdecked', and a few which felt close and I probably didn't actually do great. It feels like a very tough format to actually do well in - which i guess is down to a few of the archetypes being very weakly supported and under-drafted as a result.
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Apr 29, 2024 18:33
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Ultimatefire posted:All in all, a fun set so far. Glad I could get a trophy in Sealed before it passed!  Nice work
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Apr 29, 2024 18:38
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I've been watching streamers play the game for a while now, which is a great substitute for practice especially because I can't practice during work but I sure can have a game running on the second monitor I like thinking about lines they took or didn't, sometimes I discuss choices in the Discord. You can learn a lot from the Pros about saving removal, not opening yourself to attacks, playing around eventualities ("only a wrath could save them here so I'll hold my last creature", "I should block with one more creature in case they have trick X because they can't have removal Y for reason Z") and simply watching them make mistakes I don't have to make later.
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Apr 29, 2024 18:44
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I hate that the play is just skipping the high-rarity cards for multiple combinations this format because they're not as good as Green.
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Apr 29, 2024 18:49
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Ultimatefire posted:All in all, a fun set so far. Glad I could get a trophy in Sealed before it passed! thanks for the reminder, I was able to squeeze in a few trad sealeds before it disappeared.
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Apr 29, 2024 18:51
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Hammer Bro. posted:I hope you do well but worry that you're gonna be too dead to play most of those. Your early game is wide open and the dragons don't become useful 'til later. Went 7-2 mostly by ripping Calamity lol It's true the Stingerbacks are actually pretty medium
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Apr 29, 2024 18:52
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I started a trad draft https://www.17lands.com/deck/e2f0602746254c12bde72a1c2bb27da3 which I think is worth talking about I feel like otj draft is really complicated, despite the obvious color imbalance. here, I tried to stay open expecting to end up in RG, thinking I would get cut off from white or black, but the goods just kept flowing late. I think all of my picks where I chose a red card are completely justifiable, yet I wonder if there was a point where I should have said, "oh I need to go into abzan or some combination thereof now." feels like pack 3 could have gone completely differently if I opened a red bomb. also, I agonized over p1p1 for the entire time limit. with the build, my gut says it's correct to just not play any of my red cards at all because my abzan is so strong. maybe I could side into it on the play against a slow opponent.
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Apr 29, 2024 18:57
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Simply Simon posted:I've been watching streamers play the game for a while now, which is a great substitute for practice especially because I can't practice during work but I sure can have a game running on the second monitor I do need to think slower about things that I tend to in draft. Like, simple stuff like attacking into open mana and an empty board and thinking they could have a simple kill spell - but they had holy cow and ate my raven of ill omen instead. But again, not getting reps in affects this a lot since there's very little incentive to do it in constructed formats. But I've definitely had games where I don't feel like I've done anything wrong at all, and the deck is built solidly, and I've just faced a bomb I either couldn't touch at all or couldn't touch with what I had available - Rakdos, Bonny Pall, Stingerback Terror, Roxanne, etc etc etc Almost like it's a set with 3 times more mythics than usual
thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Apr 29, 2024 |
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Apr 29, 2024 19:00
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I had a deck go 5-3 with 3 mystical tether, 3 of the exile black card, thrown from the saddle, snakeskin veil, and only 10 creatures. Technically abzan, but mostly white. Removal is just that good, just remove anything that you can't deal with in combat. I drafted that white hideaway artifact, but with 10 creatures it never got to cast the spell, and just gave me a bunch of +1/+1 counters before getting removed by a varmint or that red removal spell that hits artifacts. Which is great, because I'd rather lose my 2 mana artifact than have them have another creature. I felt smart when I pressured my opponent enough that they had to use their snakeskin veil on their own blocker just for the +1/+1 counter, allowing me to exile their last creature on my next turn. My creatures weren't even great, the best ones were Claim Jumper and Prairie Dog and Bounding Felidar
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Apr 29, 2024 19:58
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thespaceinvader posted:But I've definitely had games where I don't feel like I've done anything wrong at all, and the deck is built solidly, and I've just faced a bomb I either couldn't touch at all or couldn't touch with what I had available - Rakdos, Bonny Pall, Stingerback Terror, Roxanne, etc etc etc you arent losing that much because your opponents are drawing better cards than you, its play patterns and drafting. everyone sees those cards on the other side of the table every draft, you have to have a gameplan to deal with or go around opposing good cards. if your deck does not have that, it was a bad draft. take exile effects above almost anything. there are so many good cards you cant just throw your hands up and say im losing because they played a rare
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Apr 29, 2024 20:18
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I sometimes think about jamming QDs even if the decks are more artificial and the EV is worse just to get more game reps in. I say this even as my bankroll from having last spent $25 in September is still at 12+ drafts but the hoarding mentality is strong lol
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Apr 29, 2024 21:11
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Time posted:you arent losing that much because your opponents are drawing better cards than you, its play patterns and drafting. everyone sees those cards on the other side of the table every draft, you have to have a gameplan to deal with or go around opposing good cards. if your deck does not have that, it was a bad draft. take exile effects above almost anything. there are so many good cards you cant just throw your hands up and say im losing because they played a rare Which is fine until you lose if you don't remove THIS guy, then they play THAT guy when you haven't drawn any more removal. or they play Rakdos when you don't have exile available. I'm probably being too aggressive with my removal, but like... it's also entirely possible in any colour other than white to just never see exile removal for an entire draft. It's also often a question of card advantage vs mana advantage - do i kill this guy now and maybe waste the removal or leave it and waste the mana i couldn't otherwise spend (but presumably I'm wildy overvaluing mana advantage?) - or like, in one of today's they played the guy who draws if they have a 5+, so i killed their 5 powered trampler in response (the only 4+ they had), to avoid them drawing a card and like... you know, having a creature which would have killed me in two or three turns unless i dealt with it... and they they topdecked Magda and a massive Hell to Pay and got 12 damage in a single turn that I couldn't avoid in any way with the cards available. But if I hadn't killed the Paladin I'd;ve died to it four turns earlier. Purely topdecking, they found their killer 2 card combo before I found one of my remaining pieces of instant speed removal, and so I lost. It's easy to say just draft better but like, I'm not passing good removal that's on colour I don't think, and I'm mostly not passing massive bombs unless they're double pip off-colour. And dying to bombs has been the story of the set for me. I've basically alrternated between it and dying to flood. Like, here's today's two 0/3 decks and I don't think either of them are bad? But maybe I'm wrong, feel free to tear them to bits. https://www.17lands.com/deck/da91f82549e8402e99103de43c5e2883 https://www.17lands.com/deck/484acf69f90b4c958d207403505f5a5c But like, i think my principle issue is that ranking up fuckin kills my winrates, and I started this set at a rank that's normally where I cap out. I spent the last couple of months jamming QDs in sets I'm decent at, and I started a brand new one up with better draft players than myself as a result. I seriously considered just waiting until a couple of days after the monthly rollover to start - but then i would have faced a similar issue that I've not got reps in early to know what's good and likely to be played at roughly similar rates to everyone else, and I'd get wrecked by people who know the set better. Hence the discussion above where I really wish QD was unranked because the bots make it inherently less competitive and I wish it was more casual.
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Apr 29, 2024 21:22
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As I see it the bots actually make it MORE competitive because it turns the actual gameplan into "know the best way to exploit the bots" so it's good that QD is ranked so people aren't tricked into thinking it's casual.
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Apr 29, 2024 21:35
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thespaceinvader posted:Which is fine until you lose if you don't remove THIS guy, then they play THAT guy when you haven't drawn any more removal. or they play Rakdos when you don't have exile available. P1p1 should have been siphon insight. U/b is maybe the best pairing to start with, and from there your deck looks a lot different over the course of the draft. P1p2 kraum and then you’re on the grixis train which is a great place to be. Instead you picked one of the worst cards in the set. This deck has a ton of cards I would never register Edit: I just saw you took skewer over bandits haul or consuming ashes!!! Come on!!! Time fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Apr 29, 2024 |
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Apr 29, 2024 21:36
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I mean Siphon Insight is a 2 mana draw 1 with flashback? What's so amazing about it versus one of the better 2 drops in the set which has a very solid mana sink on it for the late game? It's not like Hustler doesn't also fit in Grixis. And Skewer has a better GIH WR than Haul, according to 17L - but it should have been Ashes, yeah. (Siphon also has a worse GIHWR than Hustler, too) On a pure GIHWR basis the righ call in that first pick would have been Lassoed by the Law actually, which I did seriously consider. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Apr 29, 2024 |
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Apr 29, 2024 21:48
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thespaceinvader posted:I do need to think slower about things that I tend to in draft. Like, simple stuff like attacking into open mana and an empty board and thinking they could have a simple kill spell - but they had holy cow and ate my raven of ill omen instead. But again, not getting reps in affects this a lot since there's very little incentive to do it in constructed formats. Theres no prizes for your timer being full, dont be afraid to stop now and then
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Apr 29, 2024 21:50
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Time posted:thats a tough spot to be in, and i hope my post didnt read as "play better" but instead just my thoughts on the format and why it can feel bad even when your deck is great Yeah I feel like I got my footing during the first week (one trophy but more than one 0-3) and since then have drafted a number of banger decks that only go 3/3 or 4/3, but that's because the opposing decks are also absolutely vicious and sometimes I need to play better in the ways you're alluding to. So I'm really glad that I generally keep 2/3 of my investment and get to try again next time. The Wicked ZOGA posted:Went 7-2 mostly by ripping Calamity lol Rock on 
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Apr 29, 2024 21:55
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Yeah, I try to - and when I get a good start in a set i usually get good at it, but when i'm alternating with jamming monored to finish my dailies I'm getting into the habit of playing fast and loose because I don't give a gently caress about the outcome of an individual match unless it's gonna be a win and quickly - but changing to playing a midrange or control strategy doesn't really make the matches more draft-like to promote the right headspace - just longer.
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Apr 29, 2024 21:56
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thespaceinvader posted:I mean Siphon has a very high gih win rate when you filter out bad players, as does dimir overall. when good drafters play the deck, dimir is at the top of the format, and siphon insight is insanely good in it. Don’t draft blindly with unsorted data or you will end up with really bad decks like this one. I just clicked through this and I make a different pick than you probably 70% of the time. It’s too much to list. You passed on hollow marauder at one point. You passed on crime lands. You took a skullduggery over a servant of the stinger. You passed shoot the sheriff and wonder why you can’t clear out big cards The grixis deck doesn’t really want blood hustler. It wants to run some fliers and ping off your health while getting a two for one on every exchange and then finishing in the air. Blood hustler can be ok, but I would never pass up instant speed card advantage p1p1 for it. You had a frankly insane 5-7 win grixis deck here with all the fixing and removal you could ask for. Go back and look. Decks like that grind through Bonny Paul no problem
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Apr 29, 2024 22:05
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Don’t take my word for it: https://twitter.com/Sierkovitz/status/1785007328044982703 https://twitter.com/Sierkovitz/status/1785007439311474886 I haven’t drafted green in my last 3 trophy runs because it feels very low agency comparatively
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Apr 29, 2024 22:07
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Time posted:Siphon has a very high gih win rate when you filter out bad players, as does dimir overall. when good drafters play the deck, dimir is at the top of the format, and siphon insight is insanely good in it. Don’t draft blindly with unsorted data or you will end up with really bad decks like this one. I just clicked through this and I make a different pick than you probably 70% of the time. It’s too much to list. You passed on hollow marauder at one point. You passed on crime lands. You took a skullduggery over a servant of the stinger. You passed shoot the sheriff and wonder why you can’t clear out big cards I don't draft using GIHWR, I genuinely can't track it concurrently with time to actually make the picks on its basis, I was just looking at it in retrospect since 17L handily shows it to you on hover in its draft recap. but again, we're very much back to 'i got a bad start in the set and snowballed horribly', honestly. I genuinely don't know that it's recoverable at this point because I won't be able to practice enough to get good without paying real money I don't want to pay. As well as 'I'm pretty clearly drafting against people who are substantially better at it than I am and it's incredibly draining of my desire to keep playing Arena at all. I should absolutely turn off Untapped's draft rater thing though, it sucks and it definitely influences me in bad ways. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Apr 29, 2024 |
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Apr 29, 2024 22:25
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thespaceinvader posted:Which is fine until you lose if you don't remove THIS guy, then they play THAT guy when you haven't drawn any more removal. or they play Rakdos when you don't have exile available. Game 1 deck 1: you used a piece of removal on a 1/1 token to get a single counter on your guy. This loses you games. No reason to ever make this play. You then consuming ashes a worthless 1/3. Just let them draw the card. You spewed off your removal on two worthless creatures and it’s why you lost. You could have killed Bruce tarl and rattle back apothecary, both of which kill you. These are fundamentally not good plays in any format
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Apr 29, 2024 22:29
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Time posted:Game 1 deck 1: you used a piece of removal on a 1/1 token to get a single counter on your guy. This loses you games. No reason to ever make this play. You then consuming ashes a worthless 1/3. Just let them draw the card. You spewed off your removal on two worthless creatures and it’s why you lost. You could have killed Bruce tarl and rattle back apothecary, both of which kill you. These are fundamentally not good plays in any format See this is the useful advice. It's the misplays that I think are killing me much more than the misdrafts and the misbuilds and confirming my suspicion that I'm using my removal too early on too low value targets is helpful. ANd it's an instinct that comes more from constructed and particularly standard constructed games where there's a solid chance that any creature deck will kill you by turn 5 unless you use that removal right now on their 2 drop rather than saving it for their bomb.
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Apr 29, 2024 22:32
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Simply Simon posted:Did an OTJ QD because I want to convert some more gems into money, but I'm not seeing it on 17lands - perhaps because I started it too quickly and it wasn't implemented yet. Anyway, this is the deck:
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Apr 29, 2024 22:33
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Justin_Brett posted:I hate that the play is just skipping the high-rarity cards for multiple combinations this format because they're not as good as Green. I had to check, and of course you're someone who's also complained about the strength of rares in this set, specifically Calamity, a rare that's notably not Green.
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Apr 29, 2024 23:46
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Also, I don't think I've seen a Throw From the Saddle past the second pick of a pack in like a week now. So if you're hitting the queues where you can get the bomb green commons late, by all means, keep drafting Green, but let me into your tables!!
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Apr 29, 2024 23:48
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GW idiots is definitely the RW deck from MKM where the quality of your deck is functionally just based on your draft and what was open and there's no real gameplay decisions. Play big dummies, try to hold up snakeskin veil or take up the shield on your good cards, hope you can turn your cards sideways and win. And then people lose with all the other decks because they play them bad or build the decks bad and complain that every deck except for GW is bad.
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Apr 29, 2024 23:53
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thespaceinvader posted:See this is the useful advice. no, this was as big an issue. you had a B+ deck to draft but drafted a D-. you were given feedback on a deck you posted that was full of cards that are unplayable after asking for it, then said "nuh uh I did good." this is how you continue to go 0-3
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Apr 30, 2024 00:59
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I blew my first couple of drafts and then GW mounts was open  My last one blue was completely open to the point where I ended up with a mono blue two spell control deck kinda deal? I don’t have the patience to play blue correctly but just playing on curve got me to four wins with it, and gently caress I see why you blue players love what you do, I didn’t like how good it felt (okay I did) to mana drain someone tapping out
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Apr 30, 2024 01:28
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I didn't actually notice before that you could filter 17lands by top players. That's nice, I like to use the GIH WR as a tiebreaker/sanity check sometimes. Good to have confirmation that some cards are better than the data I was seeing, in particular Oasis Gardner and Jailbreak Scheme had seemed like they were overperforming
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Apr 30, 2024 02:06
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Eeevil posted:I didn't actually notice before that you could filter 17lands by top players. That's nice, I like to use the GIH WR as a tiebreaker/sanity check sometimes. Good to have confirmation that some cards are better than the data I was seeing, in particular Oasis Gardner and Jailbreak Scheme had seemed like they were overperforming i actually am not a huge 17 lands gamer but I end up using it a lot to back up my points itt. like i i knew by feel siphon insight was a way better card than skewer, i didnt know it was THAT much better based on the data of good players
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Apr 30, 2024 02:39
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