|
It's unfortunate that the Sopranos aired right before the transition from SD to HD television, I wanted to see more bold filming choices in the show though it's not a fair criticism since they were operating at a time where 4:3 standard def was the norm. I feel like we don't really see enough of Caldwell and how affluent Tony's residential neighborhood is as compared to the rundown post-industrial poo poo he works in. I remember growing up in those affluent upper middle class suburbs in the early 2000s right before gentrification started to heat up. They were strange places.
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2019 23:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 17:44 |
|
|
Chuka Umana posted:It's unfortunate that the Sopranos aired right before the transition from SD to HD television, I wanted to see more bold filming choices in the show though it's not a fair criticism since they were operating at a time where 4:3 standard def was the norm. Yeah it's interesting seeing it in comparison to the now fairly standard level of cinematography present in prestige drama. You still get some interesting if basic framing choices/focus pulls but in general the show relies on the writing and the acting (and phenomenal musical choices). What was the first show that really took the more cinematic approach in modern drama? Deadwood? Breaking Bad?
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2019 00:44
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Yeah it's interesting seeing it in comparison to the now fairly standard level of cinematography present in prestige drama. You still get some interesting if basic framing choices/focus pulls but in general the show relies on the writing and the acting (and phenomenal musical choices). Lost definitely pushed a lot of new boundaries with what could be filmed for TV.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2019 01:04
|
|
|
poo poo I completely forgot about Lost. Yeah I had a lot of problems with the show but it had some really awesome visuals at times.Chuka Umana posted:Patsy looks the most suburban dad looking out of Tony's whole crew. I love that he's been with his goomar for 15 years and they're basically just an old married couple on top of his actual wife. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Aug 11, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2019 01:44
|
|
|
Sometimes an older grainier look suits a show. I really love how True Detective Season 1 is shot and they do a good job of capturing that 90's tv show aesthetic.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2019 06:16
|
|
|
The Shield is grainy as hell, real potato quality.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2019 09:42
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:I love that he's been with his goomar for 15 years and they're basically just an old married couple on top of his actual wife. Patsy might be who he means when he's talking to Melfi about the business associate who has essentially two families (do you think him and Phillie pretended to be Patsy in different places at the same time???   ).
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2019 14:54
|
|
|
Isn't one of the theories at the end of the show Patsy was the one behind the prospective "Tony Soprano Dies" ending. He had the motivation, and relatively throughout the series he was one of the more low-key mob guys besides his reactions in the aftermath of his twin getting whacked. I could see New York wanting Tony out of the way for someone they saw as more stable. By the end I think the only two captains left not dead or in a coma were Paulie and Patsy (I think he got promoted in one of the last two seasons). Also just lol at Paulie getting the nod from anyone.
Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Aug 11, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2019 19:05
|
|
|
Succession has some Sopranoish vibes except murder is replaced by accidental manslaughter
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2019 19:11
|
|
|
Like the sopranos it's actually funny, too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2019 19:56
|
|
|
Jack2142 posted:Isn't one of the theories at the end of the show Patsy was the one behind the prospective "Tony Soprano Dies" ending. He had the motivation, and relatively throughout the series he was one of the more low-key mob guys besides his reactions in the aftermath of his twin getting whacked. I could see New York wanting Tony out of the way for someone they saw as more stable. By the end I think the only two captains left not dead or in a coma were Paulie and Patsy (I think he got promoted in one of the last two seasons). Also just lol at Paulie getting the nod from anyone. I think Patsy felt he got a little bit of his revenge while gloating to Tony about his son more than likely marrying Meadow.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2019 21:35
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:I love that he's been with his goomar for 15 years and they're basically just an old married couple on top of his actual wife. Doesn't he have kids with her as well?
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2019 21:52
|
|
|
Did we ever see Patsy stop running? Just saying...
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2019 01:43
|
|
|
Chuka Umana posted:Did we ever see Patsy stop running? Just saying... Last we see of Patsy is after Silvio gets shot, celebrating his son's engagement to Meadow. Patsy's probably thinking he might make capo or even consiglieri out of it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2019 02:05
|
|
|
Yeah, if anything you'd think Patsy would be desperate to keep Tony alive and well since he was looking at the real possibility that his grandkids were gonna end up benefiting from all of Tony's money and power, and with Sil in a coma, Christopher and Bobby dead and Paulie running the Esplanade, Patsy's in an enviable position.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2019 05:18
|
|
|
With everyone dead its Albert's time to shine!
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2019 07:20
|
|
|
banned from Starbucks posted:With everyone dead its Albert's time to shine! ... Albert's time to shine.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2019 16:33
|
|
|
Some people are out there stuffing themselves!
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2019 17:21
|
|
|
Given Albert was apparently a better earner than Larry, I wonder if it wasn't some kinda shtick to make others underestimate him.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2019 17:31
|
|
|
I enjoy the moment of murderous calculation you see on Richie's face after Albert repeats his joke about Larry getting a face lift and then going to jail. You can see that Richie isn't sure if Albert is mocking him or just has a verbal tic. David Proval owns.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2019 18:58
|
|
|
David Proval was also in the running to play Tony Soprano but Chase found him way too intimidating for the role. It was a good call.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2019 21:57
|
|
|
Ginette Reno posted:I enjoy the moment of murderous calculation you see on Richie's face after Albert repeats his joke about Larry getting a face lift and then going to jail. You can see that Richie isn't sure if Albert is mocking him or just has a verbal tic. Yeah, this. It seems like he just let it slide on account of what he was trying to get Albert to do. Any other moment it would have elicited a very different response, but he needed the Barese soldiers. Another one like this is Richie's look and his silence after his son toasts him and Janice at the engagement party- he's got such visible contempt and is unable to utter even a basic acknowledgment. Ginette Reno posted:David Proval owns. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2019 00:31
|
|
|
Vichan posted:David Proval was also in the running to play Tony Soprano but Chase found him way too intimidating for the role. It was a good call. I think Proval could have done it, but it certainly would have been a different show without Gandolfini's looming presence.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2019 00:56
|
|
|
Hes got tremendous moxie for his size.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2019 03:21
|
|
|
So what? He dies, I can't even take his shoes 
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2019 03:23
|
|
|
Season 4, Episode 9 - Whoever Did ThisRalphie Cifaretto posted:My life could have taken a whole different trajectory Junior Soprano's trial continues, and the initial fear/excitement has long since worn off. Now Junior is just bored out of his mind despite what has been the "bombshell" of testimony detailing misuse of the Joint Fitters' 401k fund. He's eager to go get a meal, only to be held up as the Jury is excused when one of the prosecuting attorney's dully asks to discuss a logistical matter of calling a witness out of order. That dealt with, he strides grumpily out of court complaining not about his possible lifetime incarceration but that he missed the early-bird special on dinner. Outside a media contingent is waiting which he casually ignores... until he hears a female reporter he is obviously sweet on calling out a question. Turning to happily answer, he bumps right into a boom mic which puts him off-balance and sends him tumbling down the stairs. Ever the professional, Alison Park turns and promptly reports this latest development without mention of what caused it, smoothly counting off the steps he fell down while one of the cops who had been looking elsewhere asks in a panic if Junior has been shot. While this farce is going on, Tony is actually being proactive for a change and figured out a way to defuse a recent cause of tension between himself and Carmela. He's brought her to the stables to see Pie-O-My, where as he hoped she is immediately impressed by the horse's beauty and clear friendliness. She's even more impressed by how Pie-O-My reacts to Tony's presence, coming straight up to the door of her stall to see him. This isn't just a racehorse to him, he cares for her and that care is reciprocated. Carmela is in awe, and especially grateful for Tony's offer to take her to see Pie-O-My race (Lois has assured him she's ready to race again), noting that she likes "the ponies": essentially he is offering to share one of his own passions with her, in addition to letting her into this sanctum here at the stables where he so obviously found a measure of peace and tranquility earlier in the season. In hospital Junior undergoes a battery of tests, watched with concern by Melvoin and Bobby. Bobby lets him know the family are on the way so he can go now, it seems Melvoin's daughter is going to address the Irish Parliament on abortion issues, and as the proud father he is flying over to be part of her big moment. He quietly tells Junior he'll be back on Monday, and is concerned when Junior insists that Beppy get his chicken home, having to remind him that they never made it to the Earlybird Special. When Tony arrives, it is more bad news. The doctor explains Junior scored low on his Folstein test, which is consistent with a concussion but could also be the sign of dementia in a patient his age. Tony is taking this seriously, his good mood from the visit to the stables is all gone, replaced by concern for Junior represented by rage at the Justice Department. The doctor notes that there is a good chance that his odd behavior will go away as the concussion heals, but they can't discount the chance that he has been slowly building to a dementia-based precipitous decline that was finally kicked in by the fall. Janice arrives full of helpful ideas to get him to Columbia Presbyterian's head-trauma unit, irritating Tony since she was the last to arrive but now wants to start throwing around suggestions.   Far from these concerns are Ralph Cifaretto, who is fuming over another problem long since forgotten by everybody else: who told Johnny Sack about his joke at Ginny's expense? Playing cards with Eugene while Vito pours a drink in the back, he's come to the conclusion it must have been Paulie, who he knows hates him. Albert's birthday party was when he made the joke though, and Vito reminds him that Paulie wasn't there. But that triggers a memory for Ralphie, Little Paulie was there and must have passed it on to Paulie while he was in prison who then passed it on the Johnny. Somehow he has completely nailed the sequence of events, and with contempt dismisses them as being like high school girls playing phone games.... then decides to show how mature HE is by playing a phone game of his own. Grabbing the phone as he casually insults Ginny's weight yet again, he has the operator put him through to Green Grove and asks for Mrs. Gaultieri. Putting the phone onto speaker, with great glee he waits for Nucci to groggily answer the phone having been woken up, then spins a story about being a police officer ("Detective Mike Hunt from Beaver Falls") who has arrested Paulie for sucking a cub scout's dick in a public park. Nucci is horrified, sure there is a mistake, but "Detective Hunt" assures her there is no mistake, and furthermore they needed to perform emergency surgery to remove a rodent from his rectum. Vito and Eugene are wheezing with laughter in the background as Ralphie explains they need to cover the cost of his bail and want to get her insurance details. Frantic now for her poor son, Nucci promises to get her Blue Cross information and Ralphie pretends to be putting her on hold before hanging up. All three roar with laughter at this immature and petty schoolboy revenge, and admittedly Ralphie's performance was rather amazing... but poor Nucci!  The next day, Junior sits comfortably in hospital eating his pudding when Tony joins him. Tony is relieved to see how well Junior looks until he notes that Tommy Formicola was in earlier, and carefully, gently he explains that Tommy died several years earlier. Disgusted but amused, Junior waves him off, he was talking about the son, also named Tommy, and a freshly relieved Tony admits that he was worried since Junior failed his "holstein" yesterday. Junior reminds him he is an old man who got hit on the head, of COURSE he was disoriented, but now he feels great: not only is he fine now but he doesn't have to spend another dreary day in the courtroom. He comments that he is milking this for all it is worth, and a lightbulb goes off over Tony's head. Excited, he grabs the phone and puts through a call to Melvoin in Ireland ("They charge a fortune!" complains Junior), telling him he wants him back as soon as possible, because he thinks he might have the key to a mistrial. Elsewhere, two idiot kids are doing the kind of idiot kid thing that idiot kids have been doing since time immemorial. Running around in the backyard with a bow and arrow, they're playing Lord of the Rings, taking turns shooting an arrow into the sky and trying to catch it with a mobile target drawn onto a piece of cardboard. Like... seriously, they're idiot kids! Holes in the target show that they've been doing this a while now, but their luck eventually runs out as Ralph soon discovers when his seemingly eternally distraught maid comes hammering on his bathroom door wailing for help in her broken English. Hauling himself out of the bathtub, his irritation turns into terror as he races outside in a bathrobe to find his son Justin - normally in the care of his mother/Ralph's ex-wife - with an arrow in his chest and blood everywhere. Tony soon finds himself visiting the hospital yet again, this time with Carmela, where they find Vito and Eugene waiting with a subdued Ralph. It seems Justin was unable to get any breath in his lungs for five minutes, and may have suffered brain damage. Like with Junior, the doctors can't give any definitive answers, and Tony recognizes his own misdirected anger at the Justice Department now mirrored by Ralph's sinister look in the direction of Justin's friend. Sitting weeping with his own parents, this is the boy who may have turned his son into a vegetable. Tony immediately seeks to defuse this situation, reminding Ralph that it was an accident, kid stuff. Ralph is brought back to himself after becoming hyper-focused on the kid as a potential outlet for his grief/impotence. This coincides with the arrival of his ex-wife with her husband and the surgeon. Ralph joins them where it becomes clear that the breakup of the marriage was particularly antagonistic, as through clenched teeth she introduces him to the surgeon as Justin's biological father who was SUPPOSED to be taking their son to the archery range. Her husband attempts to calm her down but, like Ralph, she's looking for an outlet for her grief and she lashes out at him, furious that she had to let him anywhere near Ralph in the first place even if he is his son. He manages to pull her clear, but when Ralph - who like she said can never accept blame - called her a stupid oval office and reminds her that SHE brought him the bow and arrow, even her husband snaps. Tony rushes to break it up as the two men grab each other and almost come to blows, hauling Ralph away. When the other boy wails that they were just fooling around, this sets Ralph off again and Tony slams him against the wall, his big meaty hands pressed against Ralph's neck in an unknowing premonition of what is to come. Ralph breaks down sobbing against Tony's chest, who doesn't embrace him but doesn't pull away either, letting Ralph let vent to his grief. On a cheerier note, bizarrely, is the preparations for Junior's mental competency tests. Tony joins Bobby and Melvoin in his hospital room where they explain that they have a psychiatrist who will testify to his reduced mental capacity, and since the doctors wouldn't rule out dementia they can also hire in a live-in nurse to give him 24 hour care which bolsters their case. The prosecution of course will hire their own expert to test his mental capacity, but if they can convince the Judge he lacks fitness to proceed then there is a good chance the charges will dismissed with prejudice, or at least delayed. Junior is delighted, complimenting Tony on his plan, and in direct contrast to the misery going on in the Cifaretto household right now, they all take time to beam approvingly at a giant muffin basket that Melvoin's Agency sent over for Junior.   Ralph sits at the foot of Justin's bed, staring at his son wondering if he'll ever be able to walk and talk again. It is doubtful that he remembers it, but it is a cruel kind of karma that after he so casually mocked Vito's brother following the attack that left him with brain damage, now his own son is in a similar position. Rosalie Aprile timidly makes her way into the room, she was unsure if she would be welcome or if it would be appropriate to visit the man she had such a rough breakup with, but he is relieved to see her. He gives her a hug and, again uncharacteristically, apologizes. Whether he remembers Vito's brother or not, he certainly remembers his lack of empathy for her after Jackie Jr died. Unreservedly he admits he was stupid, crediting her with her strength in getting through the aftermath of his death. Rosalie pulls him in tight and promises him that Justin will be fine. "He's gonna be a vegetable," she declares with certainty to Carmela when they meet later for lunch at Vesuvio's. Carmela crosses herself to ward off the possibility (or the risk that it might somehow affect her children) while Rosalie notes that at least she still has her daughter, while Justin is Ralph's only son. She suggested he speak with Father Intintola but thinks it unlikely he will. Artie catches their eye of to the side, where they see him against blatantly flirting with his hostess and cluck their heads in disapproval. Not only is he making a fool of himself, but the rumor about his suicide attempt made it out in spite of Tony's best efforts. Carmela notes that he and Tony are on the outs as well but she can't get Tony to tell her why, but when he spots them looking and gives them a wave, they happily wave back like they haven't just been cruelly gossiping about him. Back in his home, Junior sits through a series of questions offered to him by Bobby so he can pass (fail) the mental competency test. He isn't taking it seriously and Tony warns him that this'll all mean nothing if he can't beat the Prosecutor's psychiatrist. Junior assures him he could pass it easily, and Tony chides him when he pretends not to remember his own name, saying that will be a sure sign to the shrink that he is faking. Bobby looks through a few more of the tasks like drawing a clock and folding the paper, noting that "these demented old bats" can't do it. Now Tony jokes too, suggesting Junior wipe his rear end with the test, and he and Bobby both laugh. But Junior has stopped finding it funny, perhaps because of the "demented old bats" line, and snaps at them. He claims to have lived his life with dignity to this point, and not he has to pretend to be a drooling idiot? Both Tony and Bobby try to calm him down as he thinks sadly back to his late brother Ercole and how he was mocked by others. The sad part is, if Tony and Bobby were taking this entire thing (not just the questions) seriously they might have noticed some troubling trends: the mood swings, the sudden dips back into memories of his childhood, the wariness to directly answer questions etc, and seen the writing on the wall. The doorbell rings and Janice - who has been doing the dishes in the background the entire time - answers, surprised to see Svetlana on the doorstep. She is the one who runs the Elder Care Agency Tony spoke of earlier, and she has brought the new nurse: a wall of a woman who looks like she could easily overpower Junior if required. Janice recovers quickly and immediately launches into an insincere apology for stealing Svetlana's leg, bringing up yet again that through this low point she found Christ. Svetlana, completely uninterested in Janice's celebration of her "humility", cuts her off with a grunted,"Ugh, you are boring woman" and walks right by her. She got her leg back, why should she give a poo poo about Janice anymore? Inside, Tony is thrilled to see Svetlana and greets her with a kiss on the cheek. Svetlana introduces them to Branca, who quickly takes control when Junior complains that he needs the bathroom. As she escorts him out, Tony notices Janice holding back tears and asks what her problem is. Janice, relegated to doing the dishes, unnoticed by Bobby and then dismissed out of hand by her former "nemesis", whines that nobody would care even if she told them. He promises Ralph that God has a plan for Justin, but Ralph   Rosalie was wrong, Ralphie has actually followed up on her advice and gone to see Father Intintola. Admitting that this makes him a hypocrite since he has almost never attended Church, he quickly becomes hostile as he accuses God of cruelty for doing this to his son. Father Intintola responds calmly, accepting that Ralph is lashing out but pointing out that God suffered even more when he gave up Jesus to suffer for the sins of all mankind. He promises that God has a plan for Justin, but Ralph - self-obsessed in a similar fashion to Tony - is positive that this is God punishing him for the sins he has committed, making Justin pay for them. Father Phil offers to hear his confession but Ralph - who would have a hell of a lot to confess - begs off. Instead he sits and listens as the priest offers a prayer on his behalf, breaking down once again at the thought of his son's predicament. Fun aside, there are four lines throughout this episode taken directly from Sympathy for the Devil, one of which appeared in the above scene. Ralph, clearly put into the position of an antagonist (the "Devil") for much of his time in the show, is in the first half of this episode cast in a far more sympathetic light due to Justin's accident. The prayer/visit clearly had some impact, because Tony is surprised to hear from Carmela the next morning that Ralph has opened up a scholarship for 20k at year at Rutgers in Jackie Jr's name. More surprising than that though is that apparently Ralph asked Rosalie to marry him! Thankfully she was smart enough to tell him no, recognizing this was a crazy gesture born out of grief. Tony is surprised and Carmela agrees that she finds it unlikely that he has turned over a new leaf... but she did also see him sitting at the bedside of his son, and that had a profound enough effect on her so she can only imagine what it might have done to Ralph. They both consider the unspoken in the quiet that follows, wondering how they would react if this was AJ, and then the boy himself enters the kitchen looking for some breakfast. Carmela has made him French Toast, and in typical teen fashion he complains since this isn't what he wanted. Tony tells him not to obsess about his weight, and he and Carmela beam down on their sullen boy nibbling at bacon, sharing a happy look between them that THEIR son is fit and healthy and well. Tony playfully teases him for being out late, asking if it was with "blondie" (I guess he got over Devin being super-rich), playfully slapping at him and putting him into a faux-chokehold before just outright hugging him tight and kissing him on the head. AJ, confused at not sure how to deal with this outright show of affection, pulls loose and insists he has to make some calls, and goes back to his bedroom. Tony and Carmela share another look, happy their son is healthy, filled with love for him, but both also clearly running through what-if's in their head about what could be if it had been him instead of Justin. At the Bada Bing office, a disheveled Ralph timidly enters the office, nowhere near his usual boisterous self. Tony gives him a hug and asks for news of Justin, learning that the left side of his brain has been affected but they're unsure what the affects on the right side are yet. So far they know his speech will be affected but little else, and Tony can't offer much in response to this so just asks him to be seated instead. He's surprised when Ralph pulls out an envelope of cash, apparently he has continued his rounds and brought in Tony's cut, as hefty as always. Ralph admits that he had to smack a guy around to get it and mumbles that at least he is good for something. Tony offers him support, noting that it was an accident and could have happened to anybody, Ralph himself is not to blame. But when Ralph completely breaks down sobbing again, Tony is at a loss. These physically demonstrative men who hug and kiss each other and happily speak of how much they love each other are as troubled with blatant displays of grief as the average male raised with the toxic rule of "Boy's don't cry." Awkwardly he comes around the table but then can only sit and lightly, timidly pat him on the shoulder as Ralph sobs and sobs. He offers him a handkerchief to blow his nose and makes what conversation he feels safe with, asking if Ralph's bullshit Union job will cover the insurance cost of Justin's treatment. After blowing his nose and regaining his composure, Ralph explains that his ex-wife's husband has insurance that covers the hospital treatment, and he himself will cover anything else that Justin needs beyond that even if it breaks him. It is here, when Ralph is at his most vulnerable and pathetic, when he is distracted by thoughts of his son overshadowing all else, that Tony Soprano decides is the best time to let him know that he is banging his ex-girlfriend. Claiming that he doesn't want Ralph to hear it through the grapevine during this trying time, he admits they are seeing each other, doing exactly what Zellman for very different reasons. Zellman told him because he knew Tony was the type to get possessive even over a discarded plaything (which ended up happening anyway), Tony is telling Ralph because of a mixture of a residue of guilt and also because getting Ralph at this low point seems more likely to end with Tony getting what he wants: everything! Ralph takes this in, and pointedly he never actually offers any blessing or assurance that he's upset, he just smiles and pats Tony on the shoulder before saying he has to go. They hug (it is safe now, Ralph isn't showing genuine emotion anymore) and Ralph goes to leave. Tony suggests he go see Pie-O-My to take his mind of things, and Ralph considers this, tucks away a stray thought about Tony openly banging his ex, then says he can't bring himself to do this right now but maybe Tony could take care of anything that needs doing ahead of the next race. He asks Tony to pass on his thanks to Carmela, who has been so helpful, and - thoughts of Tony and Valentina still on his mind - ponders what like would have been like if he had met a girl "like Carmela" instead of the "twat" he did marry. "My life could have taken a whole different trajectory" he "jokes", not for the first time putting it out there that it was pure luck that saw Tony rise to the top of instead of him. It also has the affect of reminding Tony that he's cheating on such a good wife, and with that the first seeds of Ralph's emergence from his downtrodden, sympathetic state have begun to emerge.   Ralph bumps into Silvio, Christopher and Paulie coming the other way as he leaves. He thanks Silvio for the flowers and hugs him, hugs Christopher and then he and Paulie pass without a word. Tony joins them, and Paulie remains the only one unmoved by Ralph's plight. Furious, convinced Ralph was behind the prank call to his mother, he dismisses their attempts at sympathy by reminding them of the thousand lovely things Ralph has done. Tony plays a different card, showing them the thick roll of cash Ralph brought in despite his kid being in the ICU. But he admits that "whatever happened there" with Nucci was terrible, and when he has to lay down the law on Paulie for claiming he will kill Ralphie if he finds out it was him, he realizes that he may have gone too far and makes a gesture far more designed to appease Paulie than Nucci herself. He promises that he will go and visit her, long overdue, and Paulie is immediately quieted, touched by the gesture. He may not himself realize just how big a deal what Tony just suggested is, as this will be the first time Tony has returned to Green Grove since the night he confronted his mother and truly saw her for what she was for the first time. Junior undergoes his session with the Prosecutor's psychiatrist. Bobby and Janice watch from the living room, impressed by Junior mostly getting things right but letting a few things slip or making answers based on associations. He knows George Bush is the President, but when asked who was President before that he speaks warmly of JFK instead and discusses the assassination and his own vivid memories of where he was that day. Tony and Valentina sleep in bed together at a hotel after a lunchtime rendezvous when Tony's phone rings. It's Lois, calling from the stables after failing to get hold of Ralph. Red-eyed from crying, Lois tries to hold it together as she lets him know there was a fire at the stables and several horses were killed. Pie-O-My survived the fire but was too badly burned to recover, they had to put her down. Tony, ignoring Valentina's sudden protests at realizing she is late back to work, is stunned and quietly hangs up. Driving to the stables, he joins the emotionally exhausted Lois and walks dazed through the rubble, seeing Pie-O-My's corpse under a blanket. Lois explains the fire marshall has looked the site over and thinks it was an electrical fire caused when a bulb blew and set the straw on fire. She tries to stop him but he insists as he walks over to the blanket and lifts it, turning his head in despair when he sees the (thankfully unshown) extent of the burns on Pie-O-My's corpse. The tractor drags her body away and he slowly stands up, looking up at the hanging light fixture, his mind considering all the angles as behind him the goat that kept Pie-O-My and other horses company bleats and looks about for its friends.   Ralph answers a knock at his door and lets Tony in, who informs him of the death of Pie-O-My in a fire. Ralph's reaction is stunned but subdued, and Tony glares down at him, clearly considering this all an act, especially having seen what Ralph's real grief looks like so recently. Ralph offers to make him some eggs and coffee as he was just in the act of cooking himself, and Tony lumbers after him into the kitchen. Ralph prepares the eggs, telling Tony he just got some good news, the doctors think Justin's condition will only be speech-related, he will still have full use of his body and simply require speech therapy. Tony acknowledges this good news but quickly gets back on subject, telling Ralph about how Pie-O-My survived the fire but was burned so bad she had to be put out of her misery. Ralph claims to be sick at the thought, but then happily goes back to making the eggs and talking about how much Justin likes them. Tony continues to get closer, looking for some real reaction, judging everything Ralph says and does. To be fair to Ralph, most people would probably be more focused on the good news for their son, but for Tony the horse's death is a tragedy and every failure of Ralph to respond in line with that is a further piece of evidence against him. Noting that the fire marshall thinks it is accidental, he points out how coincidental it is that after taking out 200k in insurance on Pie-O-My after she recovered from illness... she should suddenly die in a fire. Ralph is finally getting the inkling that something is up, and he "jokingly" asks if Tony suspects he had something to do with the fire. Tony simply responds that HE didn't, then removes his jacket and says he'll have some eggs after all. Now his restrictive jacket is off, his arms are free to move, he is already thinking ahead to what on some level he had intended to do the entire time he was on his way to This time there is nobody else present, there is nobody to get in the way or hold them back. Tony is a giant, an enormous physical presence that dwarfs Ralph. But Ralph is a vicious fighter, one who sees no issue in using every shortcut and weapon to his advantage. He smashes Tony with appliances, swings the still hot frying pan at him, but Tony punches the pan away and slams directly into Ralph and swings him around into the cupboards. Ralph grabs a knife from the counter but doesn't have the power to push past Tony's strength, and finds himself slammed back and his hand smashes through glass and wood, causing him to drop it. Trying to grab the toaster, Ralph gets his hands on flyspray and unloads it directly into Tony's eyes. But he tries to retreat instead of pressing the attack, perhaps to get a gun, perhaps simply to get clear, and Tony is directly after him, slamming him to the ground and choking him, slamming his head against the ground as he screams at Ralph for killing a "beautiful, innocent creature", that,"You killed her, you loving killed her!". Ralph weakly tries to claw at Tony's eyes and face, then slaps weakly against his chest, then finally drop down entirely as the last of his breath leaves his body. Tony slams one giant fist into Ralph's face for good measure and then stumbles away to the sink, vomiting from the flyspray, burning his hand on the element as he staggers over to turn it off. He sucks in deep breaths and looks down on the floor, the red fog of rage finally lifting and a staggering realization finally pushing past his fury... Ralph Cifaretto is dead. Earlier in the episode he was the one who stepped up and prevented Ralph's anger from getting the best of him. Now several days later, after angrily chiding Paulie and warning the others that "this is a business" and nobody could kill Ralphie despite the lovely things he often did... Tony has gone ahead and done just that. Ralph had always believed that his earning power gave him a free pass, and he was right to think it. He got away with so much, the backtalk to Gigi, the murder of Tracee, the fight with Tony, the falling out with Johnny Sack etc. But just like Furio's uncle warned him, the Boss is not to be trifled with, because you'll inevitably end up dead as a result.   h
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Aug 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2019 14:14
|
|
|
Let's stop here for a moment and talk about one of the long-standing debates of The Sopranos: why did Tony kill Ralph? Or more accurately, what was Tony thinking when he killed Ralph? On the surface level, it's as simple as Tony was upset about the horse, found Ralph unapologetic and flew into a rage and killed him. However plenty of others have argued that the horse itself represented something on a deeper subconscious level to Tony (Melfi will actually make a similar argument in the next episode, though she's unaware of many of the details we as viewers are privy to), specifically Ralph's murder of Tracee. It's a tempting argument to make, since Tony lashed out with murderous rage then too but was prevented from killing Ralph by the presence of the other mobsters. There are so many obvious parallels, Ralph's own final comments that set off Tony are even phonetically similar: "She was a loving hooaaaaarrrr!" and,"It was just a loving horse!". Tony screaming about a "beautiful, innocent creature" and "You killed her! You loving killed her!" could easily be seen about him REALLY talking about Tracee. Then of course deeper still beneath that is that Tracee herself simply represented Meadow, their lives so clearly paralleled in University, and Tony's rage comes from the perception that Ralph (or rather somebody like Ralph) represents the perception of a threat to his daughter in the same way the ducks represented his fear for his family. So what do I think? Well accuse me of punking out but I've always felt it's a combination of those things internalized by Tony's narcissism and exploding in a violent outburst he himself doesn't understand. I said that Tony went over already committed to killing Ralph, but I don't think he KNEW he was planning that, he was only thinking about how he was going to confront him. Similarly when he removed his coat, it was seemingly to make himself comfortable, but on some level he was thinking about how the coat would restrict his movements when he attacked. Pie-O-My is just the latest in a long series of wrongs that Ralph has committed and that Tony has put up with for various reasons. Each of those prior instances remained simmering under the surface, just waiting for something to stir the pot. It wasn't any one thing that drove him to murder Ralph, it was all of them, mixed up and twisted together till it was impossible to pull one without bringing up the rest. Remember, he wanted to kill Ralph after he murdered Tracee... but not only was Ralph soon enough once again a common sight at the Bada-Bing, he and Tony were buddy-buddy, shared a horse together, went out to lunch, worked on real estate deals etc.... but that resentment was still there. Tony never really particularly cared about Tracee herself, but the murder of Tracee was itself at the time the latest in a long series of wrongs committed by Ralph. Once she was dead, she became for Tony a kind of idealized version of herself, existing mostly as a warning/ghost of what could be with Meadow (just like Justin's situation made he and Carmela think about AJ) who was of a similar age. Tony never liked Ralph, but he liked the money he brought in, and having that hypocrisy thrown in his face was another addition to the mix. Ralph also represented a kind of cruder version of Tony himself, a warped reflection that Tony must have hated looking at because it could only remind him of how he might appear to others. Mother issues, unfaithful, violent, prone to rage and finding humor in the misfortune of others but forever protected by his ability to earn money. Ralph lacked Tony's charisma and sense of authority, but he was close enough to be uncomfortable, and Ralph saying things like how if he'd married Carmela his life could have turned out different must have hit home on some level. Maybe Tony isn't some great man who got where he got through hard work and being better than everybody else, maybe he's just some rear end in a top hat who got lucky and Ralph could have just as easily been in his place? So when this nasty little gently caress who represents everything bad Tony sees in himself starts talking poo poo to him? When he throws in his face the money Tony so recently warned the others was the trump card in all matters? When he fails to be upset at Pie-O-My's death? When Tony remembers how indifferent he was to murdering Tracee? When that association triggers thoughts of Meadow? That's when Tony snaps and kills Ralph. What he says gives us a hint of what he is thinking, but only a hint. On the surface it's about a horse, deeper it is about more than that, but it isn't about one thing or the other. In the end, it's about Tony, and all the hosed up mix of contradictions, hypocrisy, rage, bitterness and regret that has poured into his subconscious since he was a child living with a monster for a mother and a huge piece of poo poo for a father. She was just a horse.... but she was so much more than that.   Before going back to the episode, a final note. How wonderful was Joe Pantoliano? Wonderful enough that he won an Emmy for this episode, anyway. Brought in last season, the expectation was that he would be the replacement antagonist, the new version of Richie. Things seemed to be heading that way after Tracee's murder and Tony lashing out... but then nothing happened. Then early this season the issue with Johnny Sack came up and Ralph was in danger of being murdered... and then nothing happened. Pantoliano went from the guest star brought in that viewers assumed wouldn't be around long but would be memorable... to just being part of the cast. It was easy to think he was just going to be in the show until the end. And then, out of nowhere, with several episodes still to air, BAM he's murdered by Tony. After a half hour of the show actually finally putting him in a more sympathetic light, his murder came completely out of the blue but still felt like it had been building up forever. Like with season 3, it also effectively leaves the viewer none the wiser as to what is coming for the season's big climax. Because with Ralph gone, what could possibly be the big obstacle/nemesis for Tony now? Johnny Sack? Carmine? PAULIE!?! That's how I was thinking at the time, and boy was I wrong, and boy was what they did so much better. But for now, it's still episode 9 of season 4, and Ralph Cifaretto is dead... and for now Tony has to deal with that. In absolutely astoundingly bad timing, Christopher is shooting up with heroin exactly as his phone rings. Releasing the needle, he leans back in bliss as the phone stops... then a different phone rings. Leaning forward, he answers and Tony, voice raspy tells him in no uncertain terms to call him back from a payphone. Christopher hangs up, prepares to stand... and then slowly collapses into the couch and passes out. He calls Tony at last half an hour later, completely hosed up and giving a bullshit excuse about Adriana losing his keys. Tony, planted next to the toilet and still trying to recover from the fight and the flyspray, instructs him to go to the drugstore and get surgical gloves, bleach and come to "our friend the contractor"'s house. Christopher does as told, arriving and knocking at the door, and Tony quickly brings him in and leads him into the kitchen where he discovers Ralph's corpse cold on the floor. This wakes Christopher up a little at least, and he looks over at Tony's bruised face and bloody shirt, and Tony offers back a defiant,"I found him like this." Even hosed up on heroin, Christopher knows this is bullshit, and simply looks back at Ralph's corpse, considering what Tony also knows: Ralphie was a Made Guy, and Boss or no Boss, you can't kill a Made Guy without getting clearance first. Still defiant, Tony yells that Ralphie was a piece of poo poo and "whoever did this" should have done it a long time ago. He wants to get rid of the body though, explaining away the blood on his shirt by saying he tried to move the body himself but couldn't. He wants the body moved because there'll be a major investigation if he is found like this, and they don't need this with Junior's trial going on. Once again he's using Junior's situation to his own advantage, but he must know Christopher isn't buying any of this... until he finally looks past his own concerns and notices that Christopher can barely hold his mouth open and his eyes are glazed, he's there but he's barely there. Finally, for the first time, the so-called genius with long term strategic plans to forever escape prosecution realizes that his nephew is a junkie high on heroin. Christopher tries to claim he smoked some weed before he called, but while his lie about drinking wine with Adriana worked before, it isn't working now, and his protests aren't helped by the fact he can barely even get his words out.  Tony grabs the supplies and grabs a seat at the table where so recently Ralph planned to eat eggs and celebrate his son's good prognosis and the sudden influx of 100k in insurance money. As he begins prepping what is needed to clean up the scene and remove Ralph's corpse come nightfall, Christopher settles in across from him and without making any accusations himself, points out the implications of Ralph's death. He was a Captain and the Family's biggest earner, leaving it unsaid that Tony killed him. Tony is no mood for lectures from a junkie but Christopher notes other people will wonder, and Tony has to consider that seriously: after all, if a hosed up high junkie like Christopher can make that connection, then the likes of Silvio, Patsy, even Paulie will surely figure it out too. As they move Ralph's corpse into the bathroom, Christopher is already sliding his story trying to find something that is both believable but forgivable. Okay yes he is on heroin, but it was just a small amount he snorted to help him come down after being out on his collection run. Tony isn't interested, more concerned about his eyes which remain screwed up. As he goes to the bathroom mirror to try and clear them out, Christopher gets the cleaver and grabs Ralphie by the hair to cut his head off... and Ralphie's wig comes right off in his hand. He lets out a gasp of shock, amusing Tony who can't believe Christopher didn't realize he was bald, sneering that he's so high he wouldn't know if his mother's muff was on Ralphie's head. Christopher of course now can't see it any other way, the hair that he assumed was natural would never look the same if he ever tried to put it back on. But that amusing distraction aside, he has grisly work to do, chopping up Ralphie's limbs as Tony scrubs down the kitchen floor with bleach. The hard work done, they do what anybody waiting to move the severed body parts of a mobster after dark would do... settle in on the couch and watch The Last Time I Saw Paris and talk about their relationship woes. Christopher's in particular, he's still unsure about marriage if he can't have kids, though the newest doctor Adriana has been to see (under Ciccerone's recommendation?) now says it is more likely than she thought. Tony advises him to jump in with both feet or not bother with getting married, and there is a chance he perhaps is thinking about Ralph's wistful acknowledgement his life would have been different if he'd married somebody like Carmela. The phone rings and they wait for the message to take it, and Tony adds another piece of advice: he can't be high on heroin if he has kids. But when Christopher talks about the terrors you can face as a parent like Justin's injury or having a teenage girl run away and "get killed, probably", the latter seems to hit a little too close to home for Tony (adding weight to the Tracee argument). He gets up and looks out the window, offering instructions on what they'll do next. Considering, he decides to offer his own version of a more palatable lie like Christopher did earlier, and explains that when he arrived Ralph was still alive but died almost immediately, faster than an ambulance would have made any difference. Christopher, somewhat sober now, is smart enough to simply nod and accept this, and he even offers that it can't have been Paulie since he was in New Paltz all day. Tony is pleased to hear this, it indicates Christopher believes him, or is at least together enough to pretend he does, and he can pretend himself that he's simply pleased to hear that Paulie didn't go against his direct order. It gets darker and Tony brings up chains and tape to help move the body parts, as well as a bowling ball bag for the head. Upstairs, Christopher is perhaps just a little too sober, as he quietly tells Tony he heard about the horse and offers his sympathies... but then asks what he thinks happened over there. Tony doesn't answer and Christopher doesn't push, but it seems he's done some thinking and grasped what appears to have triggered Tony to kill Ralph even if he won't admit it did it. They dump the head, hands and wig into the bag, momentarily panicked by a loud banging until Tony realizes with a laugh it was the bowling ball rolling down the cellar stairs. He collects the bloody towels as Christopher goes and retrieves the ball for extra weight, then they wash and wipe down the bathtub and drive Ralph's remains out to different locations. At the first spot, in a dark bit of comedy, Tony warns his nephew as they prepare to pitch a handless, headless torso into the water that he's got his whole life ahead of him and shouldn't waste it on drugs. The next stop is Sloatsburg, a farm owned by the father of, of all people, Mikey Palmice. Mikey's father is in the VA Hospital getting prostate surgery, meaning they have the place to themselves. Finding a good spot, Christopher tries to dig into the dirt but finds it is frozen and too hard. They walk around looking for a solution as they discuss Artie Bucco's impossible quest to bang his hostess, and Tony spots a digger. Christopher gets inside the cabin and manages to hotwire it, delighting Tony until he completely fails to operate it and has to suffer the ignominy or climbing down as Tony lectures him on drugs ruining his hand-eye coordination. Tony climbs in and, cigar in mouth, happily lifts the shovel and drives it back to their earlier location. Expertly operating it he easily claws up the frozen earth. Christopher dumps the bag with Ralph's head and hands into the ground and Tony buries it under the dirt. They get out and kick leaves over it to mask the turned over ground, and Christopher asks how he learned to operate the machinery. Beaming with nostalgia, Tony explains his grandfather (Corrado Sr) let him gently caress around on one of his construction sites when he was only 13. He happily declares his grandfather, who Janice once pointed out as "no picnic" and probably responsible for a large amount of Livia's own issues, was a good guy, and they walk away from the decapitated head and hands they just buried.   They return to New Jersey and go to the Bada Bing, where they quietly knock back a drink. Christopher finally, carefully brings up what he feels is a concern Tony should be considering: people are gonna take what happened to Ralphie the wrong way, and perhaps become concerned that the same might happen to them without the protection of the Boss. He's struggling to articulate what he means because he can't come right out and say,"You killed Ralphie, we both loving know you killed Ralphie and it's gonna be a shitstorm holy gently caress what were you thinking?" Tony smiles, approaches him and reminds him of something that is probably only going to increase his concerns: he is the only other person who knows about Ralphie's death. Tony starts to walk away but then stops and looks back at Christopher, wanting to make sure he got the message. Christopher nods and agrees that disappearing Ralph's body was the right thing to do "for the business", accepting the lie once again that their entire organization isn't made up of a bunch of thieving, murderous hypocrites who will break every one of their own rules if they can get away with it. They collect spare clothes from the locker, set aside for after VIP nights or heavy drinking sessions, and head into the back and shower, Tony instructing him to take the clothes they used and burn them. Day dawns and Junior Soprano emerges from his house to collect the paper. Watched from across the road by Agent Harris and another Agent, they're surprised when Junior suddenly strides away from his house and across the lawn, knocking on the door of a neighbor. She answers the door, delighted to see him until he asks her if he can have some ice-cream. Disturbed, noticing he is still in his pyjamas, she tells him to wait and closes the door. Branca emerges from Junior's with his coat, calling out for him to join her and not catch cold. Complaining that he was getting the paper, he lets himself be walked back inside, complaining that it is her fault for not collecting the paper. She tells him she'll make tea and walks away, and Junior looks around his own house, not seeming to fully grasp exactly where he is. At the Bada Bing, Tony wakes on the couch and calls for Christopher but gets no response. Approaching a mirror, he checks on his eyes but then catches sight of a photo in the corner. Leaning closer, he finds himself looking right into Tracee's smiling face as she shows off the expensive braces paid for by a predatory loan from Silvio to keep her dancing until she was all used up. Without reaction, the man who killed her murderer turns and walks away from the last sign that she ever existed, still calling for Christopher, still getting no response. He pauses and looks at the empty stage where Tracee once danced between inappropriate attempts to befriend him. Do these reminders haunt him? Make him feel better? Help him to justify to himself why he killed Ralph? He certainly had no problem with Ralph being around the Bada-Bing again despite that mirror and that photo and that stage being there all the time as well. In any case, Ralph is dead now and Tony is still alive, but with no idea where Christopher is or what surprises are waiting once it becomes clear something has happened to Ralph. Opening the exit door, Tony Soprano emerges from a long night into the blinding light of day, which could just as easily be exposure as it is reward. Ralph Cifaretto is dead, and body or not, unlike with Tracee there are going to be immediate consequences for that.   Season 4: For All Debts Public and Private | No Show | Christopher | The Weight | Pie-O-My | Everybody Hurts | Watching Too Much Television | Mergers and Acquisitions | Whoever Did This | The Strong, Silent Type | Calling All Cars | Eloise | Whitecaps Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Apr 23, 2020 |
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2019 14:14
|
|
|
This is the first write up I've read where I had the episode so fresh in my mind so it was a very enjoyable read. This has to be one of the clearest examples of the hypocrisy that Tony lives his life by, because we get him dressing down Paulie for talking about something that he immediately goes and does himself. And he certainly doesn't want to hear a word from Christopher about it, he's the Boss and so he should be able to say one thing and do another. Regarding the Tracee/Pie O My situation, it definitely seems to be Tony again focusing on an innocent animal as a way to relieve himself of the potential guilt that comes along with the way he treats innocent people like poo poo. Similar to how he became so focused on the ducks as a way to avoid thinking about his own lovely home life and the potential danger his lifestyle could bring upon his family. He's not specifically thinking of Tracee when he kills Ralph but like Jerusalem said I don't think his brain was making much of a distinction there in that moment.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2019 17:53
|
|
|
This show is just filled with little human moments. The kids playing and getting hurt is a plot device, but them acting out Lord of the Rings is so real. LOTR was huge at that time, and I remember acting out star wars scenes as a kid using cardboard tubes and even poo poo like fluorescent tubes. Its what kids do.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2019 20:24
|
|
|
Svetlana is great.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2019 20:30
|
|
|
Fun fact: Tony burning his hand on the stove was not scripted. His reaction was genuine.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2019 21:21
|
|
|
https://www.esquire.com/entertainme...impression=true
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2019 22:06
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:Regarding the Tracee/Pie O My situation, it definitely seems to be Tony again focusing on an innocent animal as a way to relieve himself of the potential guilt that comes along with the way he treats innocent people like poo poo. Similar to how he became so focused on the ducks as a way to avoid thinking about his own lovely home life and the potential danger his lifestyle could bring upon his family. He's not specifically thinking of Tracee when he kills Ralph but like Jerusalem said I don't think his brain was making much of a distinction there in that moment. Do you think it's the guilt that drives his love of animals? I think his love of animals has more to do with how they conform perfectly to his world view. A horse will never act like anything but a horse. It's innocent and safe and Tony can control it and get exactly what he wants from it. People are wild and unpredictable and they don't listen and all of those things drive a controlling personality like Tony crazy. Look at his own family. He can't get any of them to do what he wants. But an animal? They'll always be there for him. If he wanted to just relax and feel peaceful he could go and visit Pie-O-My and get exactly those feelings every time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2019 00:13
|
|
|
Yeah, I think his love of animals (and babies/small children) comes from their percieved innocence and inability to judge him or see anything beyond his surface level kindness. I've never really brought into the idea he is a sociopath, just a hosed up dude from a screwed up background with a heady mix of narcissism and self-loathing competing for prominence. Melfi is convinced to drop his therapy because of the argument that he'll never improve, simply use it to become a better criminal. But I think the ultimate failure of his therapy largely comes down to his unwillingness to treat anything other than the surface level issues outside of a few rare deep dives that were quickly abandoned when poo poo got too real. The closest he ever got to real growth was when he offered to go into behaviorial therapy, and even then that was mostly a gesture out of surprise/concern for Melfi's breakdown. Had he followed up on it, I can easily see him abandoning it the moment he got pushed too hard, or to have found something that worked briefly and then adapted that as a coping mechanism and considered that good enough.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2019 00:35
|
|
|
Ginette Reno posted:Do you think it's the guilt that drives his love of animals? Maybe not guilt, but insecurity. The relationships with the animals make him feel like he's actually that guy he likes to imagine he is and not just a ruthless narcissistic thug. Like you said, the human relationships are complicated so he can't manage to make it work with them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2019 02:14
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Season 4, Episode 9 - Whoever Did This Dish or I'm gonna be tortured. I guess "Pleased to meet you" must be one Also, this is another time we see Tony fly into rage after experiencing sadness and melancholy (the song on the radio before he whipped on what's his name with his belt). Now I'm wondering if it's a pattern that I've missed, where an angry outburst is immediately preceded by feeling sad or wanting to cry. I like how it's never clarified if Ralph killed the horse or not. I tend to lean "no" but then I remembered the insurance money and the hospital bills so I don't know. It just seemed too sudden and I sort of bought his reaction but Joey Pants plays the ambiguity really well in that scene. I don't think we ever find out anything more about Ralph's son either.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2019 00:13
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:I like how it's never clarified if Ralph killed the horse or not. I tend to lean "no" but then I remembered the insurance money and the hospital bills so I don't know. It just seemed too sudden and I sort of bought his reaction but Joey Pants plays the ambiguity really well in that scene. I don't think we ever find out anything more about Ralph's son either. Whether Ralph killed the horse it's one of the many interesting questions that also really don't need an answer. While it feels like Ralphie is probably earning enough that the hospital bills aren't a huge deal because his kid has also got coverage under one of his union "jobs," the insurance probably also was a nice chunk of change. And I even thought of 'well, wouldn't Pie make more money in the long run racing/being bred' butTony already expected to get his taste of anything that came from Pie O My, not unlike how Carmine insisted he and the Jersey family 'shared' Zellman. One can see Ralph killing the horse so he didn't have to deal with that, already irritated that Tony seemed to grab at his stuff with both hands. That said you can even give Ralph a pass for not being that upset over it because he never saw Pie as a pet like Tony did, and also he was much more understandably concerned for Justin. It's just another one of those 'your guess is as good as mine' things in the series that has a lot of merit for whichever side you pick.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2019 00:28
|
|
|
I think he did order the fire set, but it's explicitly stated that he did. Tony suspects, the timing is a bit too perfect, and even though Ralph denies it he also keeps qualifying why it wouldn't matter if he had done it, which all sounds to me like he's trying to justify it (and is legitimately angry since, you know, horrible as it is he does have bigger concerns re: his son).BiggerBoat posted:Dish or I'm gonna be tortured. I guess "Pleased to meet you" must be one Yep, he says,"Pleased to meet you" and "Allow me to introduce myself" to the doctor. Father Intintola asks him where he was when Jesus Christ had his moment of doubt and pain. Later when Paulie is talking poo poo about Ralph, Tony gets pissed and asks him to give Ralph a little sympathy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2019 00:53
|
|
|
I think Ralphs smart enough to realize that Pie-o-Mys value is more than just money. Its something that keeps him close with Tony. Even if he is footing the whole cost (and costing half his winnings), who else can say they own a Horse with the boss. Pie has basically replaced Rosalie as his "in" to worming his way closer to Tony even if it wasn't intentional.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2019 05:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 17:44 |
|
|
The fire at the stables does come shortly after Tony reveals he is sleeping with Valentina though, which I think is significant. Even if Ralph didn't consciously think about it, I'd say having Tony reveal to Ralph - who is heartbroken over his son's potential fate - that this is yet another thing that he has "taken" from Ralph like it is his right would be enough to drive him into a stupid and reckless act as petty revenge. Tony whipped Zellman with his belt, Ralph burns down the stable with the horse that Tony loves in it. It's petty, tit-for-tat bullshit but we've seen that these guys certainly aren't above that. Plus as also mentioned in a post above, Ralph had come to view Pie-O-My as a weight around his neck. Best case scenario is that she keeps winning but he has to keep forking out cash to Tony as a result, worst case scenario is that she continues to require treatment and pampering that costs HIM money while Tony gets to hang around making kissy-faces at her. This way he gets a payout that'll help cover his son's treatment and rehabilitation, plus he figures Tony can't be mad because he's getting 100k out of it (Ralph always thinks his earning power will buy him out of any problem) but it's only a one-off and not a continuing thing of Tony forever eating away at his winnings.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2019 05:43
|
|