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Willie Tomg posted:They arguably literally did for most of BG1. The founding members of Bioware were 3 doctors who liked playing D&D and while they got really good at what they did (Durlag's Tower speaks for itself) you can tell BG1 is a freshman effort. It's a gigantic sprawl of like 3 dozen wilderness maps, many of which contain roughly 3 "events" per, and the carrot at the end of a longass stick that stretches through four chapters of game is a colossal and totally unlabeled and non-signposted urban sprawl any one of whose sectors contains half as much content in terms of quests and items as exists in the entire rest of the gameworld. Nobody at all would deal with that in 2018. If steam completion achievements are any indicator, few have. haha I remember how baller it felt being able to check the "unlock experimental resolutions" in the options and still having the game run But yeah 20 arrows per stack suuuucked, I don't think I even used ranged weapons the first few times I played through.
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Jul 2, 2018 10:44
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Downloading mods that let you stack 99 arrows felt like the future right then and there in 1998
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Jul 2, 2018 12:30
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bike tory posted:haha I remember how baller it felt being able to check the "unlock experimental resolutions" in the options and still having the game run I remember reading something talking about how good archers were, and then I tried to use bows and realised I'd have to go back to town like 5 times or more every dungeon and gave up and made a Wizard.
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Jul 2, 2018 12:31
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Was the 20 arrow limitation some kind of restriction resulting from hardware on old computers or just basic lack of awareness of QOL stuff?
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Jul 2, 2018 12:40
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Willie Tomg posted:They arguably literally did for most of BG1. The founding members of Bioware were 3 doctors who liked playing D&D and while they got really good at what they did (Durlag's Tower speaks for itself) you can tell BG1 is a freshman effort. It's a gigantic sprawl of like 3 dozen wilderness maps, many of which contain roughly 3 "events" per, and the carrot at the end of a longass stick that stretches through four chapters of game is a colossal and totally unlabeled and non-signposted urban sprawl any one of whose sectors contains half as much content in terms of quests and items as exists in the entire rest of the gameworld. Nobody at all would deal with that in 2018. If steam completion achievements are any indicator, few have. Point is, even a dumb doctor ought to realize when you give the players a key, they will like that key and hunt you down if you try to take it away. This is so basic D&D stuff it is printed in the DMG from AD&D forward, albeit more as a warning.
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Jul 2, 2018 12:50
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Mordaedil posted:I know most of the game is like that, heck Imoen herself was a late addition after they realized how few rogues they had and late they were available. The devs also disliked Imoen because most or all of the other companions were based on various developers' DnD characters.  Imoen was not, she was a last second addition after beta testers complained that the first couple of maps were too hard, so Imoen was thrown in to make the beginning of the game easier. Montaron was meant to be the beginning of the game thief.
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Jul 2, 2018 13:27
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Xzar and Montaron were the best NPCs in BG1  I don't see it mentioned very often, but I really appreciate how the NPCs of BG1 were based on Jagged Alliance's roster of dysfunctional mercs and didn't yet need the protagonist's help to solve their personal issues like in later Bioware games.
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Jul 2, 2018 13:42
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Aren't Montaron and Xzar standing along the road on the first map?
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Jul 2, 2018 14:29
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Decrepus posted:Aren't Montaron and Xzar standing along the road on the first map?
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Jul 2, 2018 14:47
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Willie Tomg posted:They arguably literally did for most of BG1. The founding members of Bioware were 3 doctors who liked playing D&D and while they got really good at what they did (Durlag's Tower speaks for itself) you can tell BG1 is a freshman effort. How the hell did 3 doctors score the D&D IP for their first game?
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Jul 2, 2018 19:53
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Suspicious posted:How the hell did 3 doctors score the D&D IP for their first game? I think Interplay had the rights, and it was actually their second game. Shattered Steel was their first.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:57
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Yeah Interplay had the license at the time, though looking through their games they had only released one D&D game and one collection of SSI's old games before BG. It's what really got the ball rolling for them.
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Jul 2, 2018 20:12
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Why is there a sex with my sister mod but no Khalid was actually cool so he lives mod?
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Jul 2, 2018 22:54
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Decrepus posted:Why is there a sex with my sister mod but no Khalid was actually cool so he lives mod? Not that that's in no way an endorsement for the godawful Imoen romance mod, mind. In my experience it was nice he could get all those weapon proficiency pips, but iirc Khalid had the lowest NPC morale break point in BG1 so those pips amounted to nothing. Dude was always giving Sir Robin a run for his money.
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Jul 2, 2018 23:31
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His morale breaks at 6 instead of 5 like everyone else. Whoopee. You should always use remove fear before important engagements anyway.
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Jul 2, 2018 23:35
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cigaw posted:iirc Khalid had the lowest NPC morale break point in BG1 so those pips amounted to nothing. Dude was always giving Sir Robin a run for his money. Better part of valor! Better part of valor!
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Jul 2, 2018 23:49
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Suspicious posted:His morale breaks at 6 instead of 5 like everyone else. Whoopee. I will readily admit my memories of the days of yore when arrows stacked by the 20-count and gem bags had not yet been invented may be coloring my opinion of Khalid but boy howdy his running away happened often enough to get me to consistently kick his rear end to the curb 20 years later. Max Wilco posted:Better part of valor! Better part of valor!  Only repeated less often than "You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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Jul 3, 2018 00:07
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Suspicious posted:His morale breaks at 6 instead of 5 like everyone else. Whoopee. Garrick, Eldoth, Quayle and Kagain (weirdly) also have morale break at 6. I think it's just more noticeable with Khalid because he's a frontliner so he's taking more damage already, and you get him usually at level one so he'll take more damage due to his lovely gear, he's less likely to be buffed, he'll have lower HP and so take more damage as a % of his total HP, and also party members are much more likely to die at that point in the game which is a big hit to morale. He's also just way more likely to be in your party than the other four, apart from Kagain maybe. Kagain has massive HP and HP regen to help counteract his lovely morale though. voiceless anal fricative fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jul 3, 2018 |
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Jul 3, 2018 00:32
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Suspicious posted:How the hell did 3 doctors score the D&D IP for their first game? The D&D IP was worth exceedingly little at the time. Like, cRPGs as a genre were considered dead.
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Jul 3, 2018 02:04
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As was mentioned, Interplay had the IP,but yeah, CRPGs were considered a dead genre. Also Interplay had already published there own D&D game and it was a massive failure and also referred to as the worst D& D game ever. (Descent To Undermountain, made with the Descent engine)
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Jul 3, 2018 05:31
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Skwirl posted:As was mentioned, Interplay had the IP,but yeah, CRPGs were considered a dead genre. Also Interplay had already published there own D&D game and it was a massive failure and also referred to as the worst D& D game ever. (Descent To Undermountain, made with the Descent engine) I remember watching or reading something in relation to CRPGs, and something that was brought up was how Diablo's success helped breath life back into CRPGs and paved the way for games like Baldur's Gate and Fallout to find success. Descent to Undermountain was a pretty big failure for sure. LGR did a video covering it. A couple of interesting things I've noticed about it is that 1.) one of the tracks you hear in the tavern was re-used in Baldur's Gate, and 2.) Chris Avellone was credited as the Lead Creative Designer. EDIT:  Forgot to edit the link. Should work now.
Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jul 3, 2018 |
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Jul 3, 2018 21:22
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Might wanna edit that link so it doesn't send you to youdddddddddddddddddddddtube, tho'. EDIT: Pretty sure Avellone refused to work on Fallout 1 as a designer to work on Descent to Undermountain, which is just hilarious in retrospect. Fair Bear Maiden fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jul 3, 2018 |
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Jul 3, 2018 21:31
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It's also important to note that like, while Descent to Underworld was a hell of a nail, it was far from the only bad D&D game to have come out in that period. Funny enough, as much as the late 90's were the dregs of D&D games, it was also the time the greatest D&D game of all time was released to arcades.
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Jul 4, 2018 09:46
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ProfessorCirno posted:It's also important to note that like, while Descent to Underworld was a hell of a nail, it was far from the only bad D&D game to have come out in that period. Funny enough, as much as the late 90's were the dregs of D&D games, it was also the time the greatest D&D game of all time was released to arcades. Shadows over Mystara was loving amazing.
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Jul 4, 2018 09:59
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ProfessorCirno posted:It's also important to note that like, while Descent to Underworld was a hell of a nail, it was far from the only bad D&D game to have come out in that period. Funny enough, as much as the late 90's were the dregs of D&D games, it was also the time the greatest D&D game of all time was released to arcades. Skwirl posted:Shadows over Mystara was loving amazing. Yes it is, and the fact that it was re-released with some nice new features made me so very happy. I am hoping that they will bring it to the Switch so I can have it in a portable format. Seriously, I cannot begin to tell you how much better some of the switches that they added made the game. "Unbreakable" was the first thing that I unlocked, and being able to find something great like Boots of Speed or Gauntlets of Ogre Power and *not* have them break because a tiny little kobold poked me with a salad fork was very welcome indeed.
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Jul 4, 2018 16:43
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ProfessorCirno posted:It's also important to note that like, while Descent to Underworld was a hell of a nail, it was far from the only bad D&D game to have come out in that period. Funny enough, as much as the late 90's were the dregs of D&D games, it was also the time the greatest D&D game of all time was released to arcades. Were any of those games really bad? Outside of RPGs, you had the Capcom beat-'em-ups, you also had weird oddities like Iron & Blood: Warriors of Ravenloft (which was a fighting game), and some strategy games, like Blood & Magic, and Birthright: The Gorgon's Alliance (the former I'm not familiar with, the latter looks like it might be an okay strategy game from what I've seen.) After most of the Infinity Engine games came out, there was Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor, which I imagine people hate more that Descent to Undermountain, since it suffered from an issue where it'd wipe you C drive if you tried to uninstall it.
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Jul 5, 2018 08:21
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Max Wilco posted:Before Baldur's Gate and Descent to Undermountain, though, there were games like Dark Sun, Al-Qadim: The Genie's Curse, DeathKeep, and Menzoberranzan. None of those games are really stand out, but I haven't heard anything terrible about them either. Honestly, I'm disappointed there's not more info on them. If I had to guess it's because around that time we had Diablo and the Final Fantasy games on console. When I think mid-late 90's RPGs those are the titles that pop into my head. The Goldbox stuff, while releasing some of its better games, was past its heyday.
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Jul 5, 2018 15:54
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There also were a lot of really good non-(A)D&D RPGs - the Ultimas plus Underworlds, Das Schwarze Auge, Might & Magic, Betrayal at Krondor, Deus Ex, Wizardry.
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Jul 5, 2018 20:35
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loving Darklands. I never could figure out what the hell was going on in that game.
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Jul 5, 2018 20:48
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Speaking of old SSI games, does anybody remember an early 90’s isometric rpg called “The Summoning”? I’d really like to see an update of the game.
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Jul 5, 2018 21:48
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Lucas Archer posted:Speaking of old SSI games You just brought me back to the magical wonder that was Sword of Aragon. Oh, the memories! 
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Jul 5, 2018 23:50
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Max Wilco posted:After most of the Infinity Engine games came out, there was Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor, which I imagine people hate more that Descent to Undermountain, since it suffered from an issue where it'd wipe you C drive if you tried to uninstall it. Yeah , I killed my dad's work PC with that The original cd release removed some crucial windows files when uninstalling. The game tanked thanks to that. Middling reviews didn't help. It's a legit good game if you install the mod that speeds up experience gain and combat speed. Otherwise the game progresses unbelievably slowly. Really, really slowly. Don't play it without that mod.
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Jul 6, 2018 02:23
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Fruits of the sea posted:Yeah , I killed my dad's work PC with that I've seen gameplay speed mods but not experience gain mods; care to link? I actually like this game even though I know objectively that it's mediocre at best. I still have my physical disc copy, but that was and still is a pain in the rear to install. I wish that the game would come to GOG. I fully agree that patches to speed the gameplay are essentially vital, and even though it was a watered-down version of the then very new 3rd edition, characters are laughably frail at early levels and caster supremacy starts to rear its ugly head late in the game, though this is mitigated somewhat by casters all being sorcerers and the spell selection in general being very limited.
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Jul 6, 2018 03:55
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I'm riding up on the end of BG1 for my series playthrough and I'm wondering if Siege of Dragonspear is worth playing. It's nearly impossible to find a useful review that doesn't spiral into "weeeh SJW!" bitchery so any goonpinions would be appreciated. It's taken me a long time to get used to BG1. BG2 was my first real CRPG and my first introduction to D&D so it has a special place in my heart and it's only relatively recently I've played BG1 - first playthrough was probably some five or so years ago. I've probably played it three more times since then but I'm never left with any particularly strong memories other than a sense of "Oh, yeah, I know what happens next" from some story beats/side missions. I generally attempt to play through the BG series at least once every other year (That said I've never truly completed ToB and I don't think I've ever touched Tales from the Sword Coast) - but the leap in quality is gigantic from BG1 to 2 so I was always put off by how amateurish it felt. The dialogue is all over the place with a lot of weird references and jokes forced into just about every conversation, characters named things like Simon Re'cap and other strange things and the city of Baldurs Gate itself consisting almost entirely of inns with nothing particularly interesting about most of them. It just feels so weird. The tone of the game is farcical and while I don't think everything should be Super Serious Business all the time it seems to want to undermine itself at every turn. I'm playing it through on the EE this time round and I think I've finally settled into a comfortable place with it. Take the dialogue for what it is, enjoy the sensation of power when you're initially a 4hp loser with two spells to your name until the game's midpoint where you're suddenly obliterating entire legions of NPCs through autoattacks alone. It's satisfying and I'm not beelining for the ending so I can play BG2 like I usually do, so I get to experience a lot of crushing. Songbearer fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Jul 6, 2018 |
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Jul 6, 2018 11:12
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I am playing SOD for the first time ever right now and am almost through it. I think it's excellent. It keeps me engaged just as much, if not more than the original campaign. It's high quality story-telling and voice acting with well-thought out quests and new locations. I picked it up for a couple of bucks on sale but knowing what I know now, I'd have paid more for it. I have spent ~17 hours on it so far.
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Jul 6, 2018 11:27
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Songbearer posted:I'm riding up on the end of BG1 for my series playthrough and I'm wondering if Siege of Dragonspear is worth playing. It's nearly impossible to find a useful review that doesn't spiral into "weeeh SJW!" bitchery so any goonpinions would be appreciated. I really enjoyed it and think its worth playing through. It sits somewhere between the two games in terms of its dialogue, possibly a bit more towards the first one with twee "joke" responses. It is a more linear adventure. A bit like Icewind Dale with a main path and some side areas. Ignore all the SJW crap nerd rage, its absurd and doesn't accurately represent anything in the actual game. Its a solid effort from Beamdog and if Bioware had made it back in the day people would be looking back at it with as much rose tinted nostalgia as they do with BG1 and 2.
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Jul 6, 2018 11:31
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Siege is the best D&D content that Beamdog's done...uh...let me find a way to phrase that that doesn't sound like it's damning with faint praise. Siege is quite good. I wish there were a little broader party selection (especially if you're playing a non-good non-fighter) but it does a surprisingly good job of fleshing out a period that I really never thought needed fleshing out til I played it. Some fun battles and the central premise is pretty interesting and of course there's nothing wrong with more David Warner.
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Jul 6, 2018 11:32
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Songbearer posted:The dialogue is all over the place with a lot of weird references and jokes forced into just about every conversation, characters named things like Simon Re'cap and other strange things and the city of Baldurs Gate itself consisting almost entirely of inns with nothing particularly interesting about most of them. It just feels so weird. The tone of the game is farcical and while I don't think everything should be Super Serious Business all the time it seems to want to undermine itself at every turn. The first two thirds of BG1 remind me of tabletop sessions of d&d. Lots of goofing off, weird characters and sudden, cruel death. Getting killed by a random lightning strike at level 1 is probably my favourite rear end in a top hat DM moment. Gameplay-wise, Dragonspear has some great fights. There's next to no filler, so be prepared to think about every encounter, unlike BG1. They also made the infinity engine really take advantage of modern computers, so it does stuff with environments and large groups of npcs that are way beyond what was possible in the original games. The writing is decent, somewhere in the middle of the two main games. Beamdog toned down the snarky/silly conversation options a bit, which is good in my opinion. All the sjw kerfuffle is about one conversation option from one fairly insignificant npc, so whatever your opinion, it has next to no impact on the game as a whole. JustJeff88 posted:I've seen gameplay speed mods but not experience gain mods; care to link? It's years since I replayed it, but I think it's the one on this page: http://teamchlorine.tripod.com/ The overworld looks cool even today. Just baffling how the game made it through play-testing with combat being so slow and also there being so much of it. Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Jul 6, 2018 |
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Jul 6, 2018 12:07
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Siege of Dragonspear was really really good. It’s also my favorite BG interface. I love the black UI with inlaid dragons and such. I’m replaying the series now with the trilogy mod so I can use that UI for the whole series.
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Jul 6, 2018 13:34
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chaosapiant posted:Siege of Dragonspear was really really good. It’s also my favorite BG interface. I love the black UI with inlaid dragons and such. I’m replaying the series now with the trilogy mod so I can use that UI for the whole series. Even if there weren't any other reason to use the Trilogy mod, this would make it essential.
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Jul 6, 2018 13:40
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