Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

«‹›2240 »

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

WAR CRIME SYNDICAT posted:

Langoliers.

....holy poo poo. I hadn't thought of that.

Wrap it up folks, we know what happened now.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 02:32

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 25, 2024 04:49

AzureSkys: Apr 27, 2003

FrozenVent posted:

Are ELT's activated by contact with water, or by sudden deceleration? The later would make more sense, after all planes crash on land sometimes.

From what I remember they have a certain g point that can activate them. They say to check it out after a hard landing to see if it was triggered, at least so I was told in my PPL training a long time ago.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 02:38

Kia Soul Enthusias: May 9, 2004; zoom-zoom; Toilet Rascal

FrozenVent posted:

Are ELT's activated by contact with water, or by sudden deceleration? The later would make more sense, after all planes crash on land sometimes.

Ship's EPIRB float free when their bracket is about 5 meters under water, then there's a string that ties them to the ship that stretches out as they float, then pulls out the pin that holds back the ON switch, which is spring-mounted to default to the on position. Then if the beacon makes it to the surface, and the battery is still good, and the antenna deployed properly, then a satellite might pick up the signal.

I understand planes precede this procedure by crashing from a few miles up and stowing the beacon indoor in the first place.

(What I'm getting at is, sometimes those things fail)

Acid Reflux posted:

Aircraft ELT units are (hopefully) automatically activated by a G-sensing switch, and they will also float if they happen to find their way out of the fuselage. They also have a manual switch, so if you go down somewhat safely in the middle of nowhere, you can just grab the box and turn it on.

If you have a Cobham ELT96/ELT97 from the early production runs, you can also count on them spontaneously activating themselves for no real good reason. The SARSAT guys and I have spent a lot of quality time on the phone together.

Linedance posted:

Ok some info regarding flight data (FDR/DFDF) and voice recorders (CVR),
and emergency locator transmitters (ELTs) too, why not.

Most aircraft are fitted with a separate CVR and DFDR located somewhere in the rear of the aircraft. Pretty much anything relatively modern is going to have a digital flight data recorder, and the CVR is probably going to be digital too, though depending on what the airline has in its spares pool there may be some old tape units floating around.
Some aircraft, (Embraer 175/190, B787, B777*) have an integrated CVR/DFDR system that has both a forward and aft unit recording duplicate information.
In both instances they will record flight data on a 25 hour loop, and voice/datalink transmissions on a 2 hour loop. Generally you're going to have 4 voice channels (capt, f/o, observer, and area mic), and a minimum of 88 flight data parameters (on a modern system, probably more) being recorded.
Once all aircraft power is lost, you're going to lose your flight data as well, but in the case of the integrated systems, one location will have a redundant power supply and will continue to record voice for as long as its battery lasts.
If you're interested, the standards for impact survivability are 3400g for 6.5ms (approx 270kts and 450cm of crushing distance). There's also standards for deep sea pressure, fire, temperature, etc.
Speaking of sea pressure, that cylinder on the front of them is the the Underwater Acoustic Beacon. It will buzz at 37.5kHz for a minimum of 30 days at 150db once it's immersed in water, up to a depth of 20000ft. You'd find it with hydrophones. Incidentally, they're mounted to the crash survivable chassis of the unit, not the external case, so they shouldn't come detached at anything within the range of survivability of the chassis itself.

ELTs work on impact, and as noted won't work underwater. The aircraft mounted ones would presume a very hard landing but mostly intact aircraft. I think they trigger at something like 6g of lateral force. If the aircraft rips apart in the air, they may not be much use. The portable ones are again for emergency, not catastrophe. If you belly land on the ocean and jump into the rafts, you'd grab one and chuck it in the water (holding onto it's string...), the water activates the battery and transmitter and it'll float along behind you. ELTs are monitored over line of sight radio (VHF, UHF), and satellite.

* I'm not 100% sure of the 777 data recorder system, whether it uses two separate CVR and DFDR units or two integrated units. I'm pretty sure it's the latter but I'll double check once I'm at work (no access to manuals at home).
The 777 has a traditional setup of separate DFDR and CVR located at the rear of the aircraft.

etc.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Mar 14, 2014 02:40

Ardeem: Sep 16, 2010; There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

AzureSkys posted:

From what I remember they have a certain g point that can activate them. They say to check it out after a hard landing to see if it was triggered, at least so I was told in my PPL training a long time ago.

The one in my dad's antique airplane is basically a weight on a pivot resting on a switch, if it gets thumped too hard the weight moves and throws the switch. The 777 probably has something a leeeetle more high tech.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 02:42

SeaborneClink: Aug 27, 2010; MAWP... MAWP!

AzureSkys posted:

From what I remember they have a certain g point that can activate them. They say to check it out after a hard landing to see if it was triggered, at least so I was told in my PPL training a long time ago.

They are activated on contact with water or by exceeding a certain g-force, 6+ I think? Setting COM1 or COM2 to 121.5 before shutdown, you'd know if you triggered your ELT or not.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 02:45

fknlo: Jul 6, 2009; Fun Shoe

SeaborneClink posted:

you'd know if you triggered your ELT or not.

It's not even remotely uncommon for Jim Bob to land his Piper a little hard and set off the ELT and not realize it.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 03:20

SocketSeven: Dec 5, 2012

I'm tempted to start a twitter account to see if I can get an interview on CNN.

Then I'd tell the world that Goons did it. We got tired of ruining online games and are now ruining real life.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 03:21

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Plinkey posted:

It deployed it's secret 777 stealth and is now in Iran.

You're closer than you think.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 04:22

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

[quote="SeaborneClink" post="4broadcast43"]
They are activated on contact with water or by exceeding a certain g-force, 6+ I think? Setting COM1 or COM2 to 121.5 before shutdown, you'd know if you triggered your ELT or not.
[/quote]

New FAA regs added 403 MHZ, and its supposed to broadcast position data if its a new ELT. I'm sure being underwater won't help that though.

Both the CVR and ELT have acoustic beacons activated by water contact, the ELT is G force activated only along a certain axis, no point for it to be activated by water as its weak VHF/UHF signal won't get out of the water.

The ELT is rediculously easy to trigger manually, if they hit the switch it'll go off, you shouldn't even have to verify, as you have to push the ELT test switch to reset to stop it going off if triggered manually

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Mar 14, 2014

# ? Mar 14, 2014 04:23

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Godholio posted:

You're closer than you think.

Your job is cooler than I thought!

# ? Mar 14, 2014 04:26

Plinkey: Aug 4, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Godholio posted:

You're closer than you think.

So we did it for TI chips?

Is that why those drat calculators are so expensive still?

# ? Mar 14, 2014 04:35

Bob A Feet: Aug 10, 2005; Dear diary, I got another erection today at work. SO embarrassing, but kinda hot. The CO asked me to fix up his dress uniform. I had stayed late at work to move his badges 1/8" to the left and pointed it out this morning. 1SG spanked me while the CO watched, once they caught it. Tomorrow I get to start all over again...

CommieGIR posted:

The ELT is rediculously easy to trigger manually

Yeah I feel its pretty often that someone turns theirs on, whether it be maintenance cycling it or accidental activation. You know pretty quickly if you're monitoring guard :v:

# ? Mar 14, 2014 05:39

Chillbro Baggins: Oct 8, 2004; Bad Angus! Bad!

Godholio posted:

You're closer than you think.

Wow, that guy makes the chemtrail nutjobs look sane. At least the usual crazies have read the Wikipedia articles on the things they're talking about.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 06:23

E4C85D38: Feb 7, 2010; Doesn't that thing only
hold six rounds...?

Malaysia Airlines Expands Investigation To Include General Scope Of Space, Time
_{�Why Are We Even Here?� Officials Probe}

The entire article is a top-notch piece of journalism, for once.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 06:25

AzureSkys: Apr 27, 2003

http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.a...b0-e87954de0b2d

# ? Mar 14, 2014 07:35

iyaayas01: Feb 19, 2010; Perry'd

This is kinda cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJWtaNcFzj4

Time lapse video of a nighttime launch and recovery at a Flag at Nellis.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 08:06

Chillbro Baggins: Oct 8, 2004; Bad Angus! Bad!

Sled Driver mentions and Wikipedia confirms, the first last flight of the SR-71 set all the speed records.

Coast-to-coast, LA-DC, STL-DC, and KC-DC. The first three make sense; transcontinental is obviously a thing, and all the airplane builders that weren't on the east coast were in LA (Lockheed, and a bunch of little guys that later got big via mergers) or St. Louis (McDonnell), and racing to show off their new hot poo poo to Congress back in the day.

What earned Kansas City its place as a milestone for airplane speed records?

The average speed of that Blackbird flight was near enough to 2150mph, and that was at normal cruising speed -- depending on the pilot's balls, the threat level, and the specific pair of engines he was riding, they could probably squeeze another 200mph out of it before it started making GBS threads fan blades. For comparison, most .30-caliber rifle bullets do about 1900mph.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 08:48

Deptfordx: Dec 23, 2013

VikingSkull posted:

I tried Google image search to see if I could find a picture of it and came up with this instead.

Wait, what's this?

# ? Mar 14, 2014 09:54

echoplex: Mar 5, 2008; Stainless Style

Godholio posted:

You're closer than you think.

I'm going to regret asking

quote:

The fact that this missing jet vanished from civilian radar yet remained visible on more robust military radars proves well enough for me that this indeed was an AWACS hijacking, just like we saw on 9/11 where AWACS planes were seen on video observing if not controlling the crashes into the twin towers.

What are the truthers using to prove* this? What's it based on?

*yes I know

# ? Mar 14, 2014 10:06

Prop Wash: Jun 12, 2010

This picture conclusively proves AWACS planes jammed 9/11. Also apparently Diego Garcia is a CIA secret prison camp? So many crazy people I never knew about!

# ? Mar 14, 2014 11:38

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

^^^ hahaha that owns

Deptfordx posted:

Wait, what's this?

S-3 Viking ejection system. 4 seater so you're seeing 4 simultaneous ejections there.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 12:05

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

VikingSkull posted:

S-3 Viking ejection system. 4 seater so you're seeing 4 simultaneous ejections there.

Holy poo poo the guys in the back look like puppets with no strings.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 12:26

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

I'm pretty sure that's kinda what they are lol

e- or bears, could be bears

# ? Mar 14, 2014 12:28

BobHoward: Feb 13, 2012; The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull

VikingSkull posted:

I tried Google image search to see if I could find a picture of it and came up with this instead.

The SNORT test track at China Lake. Click for a PDF with a couple more pics of tests and some history.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 12:37

dubzee: Oct 23, 2008

Crank up the :tinfoil:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/14/us-malaysia-airlines-radar-exclusive-idUSBREA2D0DG20140314

quote:

Military radar data suggests a Malaysia Airlines jetliner missing for nearly a week was deliberately flown hundreds of miles off course, heightening suspicions of foul play among investigators, sources told Reuters on Friday.

Analysis of the Malaysia data suggests the plane, with 239 people on board, diverted from its intended northeast route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing and flew west instead, using airline flight corridors normally employed for routes to the Middle East and Europe, said sources familiar with investigations into the Boeing 777's disappearance.

Two sources said an unidentified aircraft that investigators believe was Flight MH370 was following a route between navigational waypoints when it was last plotted on military radar off the country's northwest coast.

This indicates that it was either being flown by the pilots or someone with knowledge of those waypoints, the sources said.

The last plot on the military radar's tracking suggested the plane was flying toward India's Andaman Islands, a chain of isles between the Andaman Sea and the Bay of Bengal, they said.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 12:58

Finger Prince: Jan 5, 2007

Pilot heard about that Ethiopian f/o, thought it sounded like a good idea, and hijacked his own plane.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 13:50

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

echoplex posted:

I'm going to regret asking

What are the truthers using to prove* this? What's it based on?

*yes I know

There were actually E-3s flying that day. Prior to 2010 or so, you could expect at least 5 or 6 training missions per day to fly out of Tinker. Most go to the east coast, because that's where most of the fighters are, thus most of the training. I wasn't in yet, but my squadron had a jet somewhere over there, probably off the Virginia Capes (Giantkiller country), and after the FAA put everything on the ground, they assumed control of much of the eastern seaboard.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 14:14

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Prop Wash posted:

This picture conclusively proves AWACS planes jammed 9/11. Also apparently Diego Garcia is a CIA secret prison camp? So many crazy people I never knew about!

Oh man, he is going to hate JSTARS, we have lots of those labels...

# ? Mar 14, 2014 14:17

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

I think I figured it out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj7_fxZWDsc

# ? Mar 14, 2014 14:18

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

hahaha, CNN is running a piece ATM showing in a 777 simulator where the transponder and radios are and how to input codes and shut them off

:negative:

# ? Mar 14, 2014 14:23

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

VikingSkull posted:

hahaha, CNN is running a piece ATM showing in a 777 simulator where the transponder and radios are and how to input codes and shut them off

Yet they don't cover the part where you punch in the 'Make plane invisible to ground radar' code.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 14:31

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

How come we haven't detected the black box signal, guys?

Seriously, does anyone have a solid source either way about the ACARS signal, because that poo poo's becoming widespread accepted fact at this point.

Edit:

"CNN posted:

More on the landing theory

James Kallstrom, a former FBI assistant director, said it's possible the plane could have landed, though he added that more information is needed to reach a definitive conclusion. He referred to the vast search area.

"You draw that arc and you look at countries like Pakistan, you know, and you get into your Superman novels and you see the plane landing somewhere and (people) repurposing it for some dastardly deed down the road," he told CNN's Jake Tapper on Thursday.

"I mean, that's not beyond the realm of realism. I mean, that could happen."

Even so, he acknowledged the difficulty of reaching firm conclusions with scraps of information that sometimes conflict.

"We're getting so much conflicting data," he said. "You veer one way, then you veer the other way. The investigators need some definitive, correct data."

FrozenVent fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Mar 14, 2014

# ? Mar 14, 2014 14:37

Finger Prince: Jan 5, 2007

FrozenVent posted:

How come we haven't detected the black box signal, guys?

Seriously, does anyone have a solid source either way about the ACARS signal, because that poo poo's becoming widespread accepted fact at this point.

Seriously? Because it might not be under water, and if it was you'd have to be reasonably close to pick it up (it's an acoustic signal). Take a look at how much ocean there is in that picture.

The satellite logs story sounds entirely plausible. That's probably as solid as you're going to get.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 14:46

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

FrozenVent posted:

How come we haven't detected the black box signal, guys?

Seriously, does anyone have a solid source either way about the ACARS signal, because that poo poo's becoming widespread accepted fact at this point.

Edit:

These conspiracy theories are getting out of hand.

:10bux:

says they find it at the bottom of the ocean in a few weeks.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 14:47

Finger Prince: Jan 5, 2007

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQgdZTgpczM

# ? Mar 14, 2014 14:53

Prop Wash: Jun 12, 2010

The Wall Street Journal's really gone downhill. Also I was going to type some words about how unbelievable that infographic is but then I realized that anyone reading them would probably know how ridiculous this all is already.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 14:57

fknlo: Jul 6, 2009; Fun Shoe

quote:

"You draw that arc and you look at countries like Pakistan, you know, and you get into your Superman novels and you see the plane landing somewhere and (people) repurposing it for some dastardly deed down the road," he told CNN's Jake Tapper on Thursday.

"I mean, that's not beyond the realm of realism. I mean, that could happen."

Yeah, rural Pakistan and all of the places it has that you can get a 777 in/out of. They probably just landed it in a field and are now hiding it in a cave filling it with explosives!

# ? Mar 14, 2014 14:57

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

fknlo posted:

Yeah, rural Pakistan and all of the places it has that you can get a 777 in/out of. They probably just landed it in a field and are now hiding it in a cave filling it with explosives!

Look, we're probably not living in a bond film but we could be!

# ? Mar 14, 2014 15:12

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

Do we know for sure that it didn't land on a zeppelin?

'Cause it could have.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 15:22

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 25, 2024 04:49

Prop Wash: Jun 12, 2010

fknlo posted:

Yeah, rural Pakistan and all of the places it has that you can get a 777 in/out of. They probably just landed it in a field and are now hiding it in a cave filling it with explosives!

Apparently James Kallstrom would know, seeing as how he's such an insidious spider stinger black widow spearheader:

quote:

There additionally can be no reasonable doubt that what ensued was one of the most thoroughly co-ordinated official cover-ups in U.S. history, reaching to the White House and rivaling the 9/11 cover-up. More than a dozen official agencies, including the U.S. Navy, Central Intelligence Agency, National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), Federal Aviation Agency, U.S. Coast Guard and New York National Air Guard colluded either very quickly or over months in the brazen cover-up spearheaded by the organizing black widow spider, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and its chief stinger, one James Kallstrom.

edit: oh sorry I should source my quotes so here you go http://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2013/03/08/shadows-of-liberty/ warning you will probably get mad, if insane people claiming perfect clarity makes you mad.

# ? Mar 14, 2014 15:24

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

«‹›2240 »