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Shageletic posted:HOW DARE YOU HAVE OPINIONS DIFFERENT THAN ME You wanna fight about it? C'mon son, let's do this.
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Aug 24, 2012 18:34
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IRQ posted:Do I have to send it to that email or something? I have some poo poo done, but it's not finished. Post it here, email it to agameofbones@gmail.com, anything really to prove that progress is being made. As far as cross-gender writing, yes, I feel like a lot of times when I read books by women that the men have something inherently wrong with them. Robin Hobb is pretty bad for this; her men never feel like they're quite real. I think it's important just to understand the human failings of both genders when you're writing them. Your men don't have to be these shining heroic knights that fall on their sword at the drop of a hat and women don't have to be the perfect embodiment of fourth wave feminism while living in a world where that would be an aberration. People understand that a fantasy world isn't Seattle with swords. Just make the characters care about what they'd naturally care about and you'll be fine.
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Aug 24, 2012 18:35
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thornghost posted:Post it here, email it to agameofbones@gmail.com, anything really to prove that progress is being made. Ok, here's the monstrosity that I shat out a few days ago before getting distracted by Singularity. quote:Sensa awoke as her servant, Shmaye, hurled open the curtains of her chambers unceremoniously. Still glowing from her education with the Pound, however, she didn’t mind so much. It was a new day, and Sensa knew that she had quite the day ahead of her. More to come, and so much worse.
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Aug 24, 2012 18:40
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Oh gently caress, IRQ did it. That means I have to do it soon too. Goddammit. Oh loving poo poo, it's due on the 24th. I'll spew something out tomorrow. Right now I'm writing a lab report for a graduate class and I've got plans tonight with a Contra Calculus fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Aug 24, 2012 |
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Aug 24, 2012 23:31
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I can certainly appreciate how perhaps we might want better writers of women than Brandon Sanderson and George RR Martin floating about. If you want a female fantasy author that doesn't write men all that well and talks about Patriarchy, consider the epic bookbricks of Marion Zimmer Bradley. I like her, but some times the gender studies subtext got a little heavy. A few other possibly notable female fantasy authors are Katherine Kerr, Lois McMaster Bujold, and Ursula K. Le Guin. And that's not touching on the "urban fantasy" vampire/werewolf/witch crew. They all have their own strengths and weaknesses as writers like anyone else, although none of them are as rapey as THE NEW AMERICAN TOLKIEN, Jorge R.R. Martín. Thulsa Doom posted:Obviously, I wouldn't have bought a Conan-themed username and avatar if I eschewed the genre completely, but the constant re-treading of the same ground and the common factor of every big name author bogging their work down in their own personal hangups and fetishes is getting tiresome. Fetishes? Better leave this here then. 
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Aug 25, 2012 00:15
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Chapter 6 Kate Kate awoke to the sun streaming through her bedchamber’s massive windows. She felt an emptiness inside her as she once again turned to see an expanse of bed where her lover should have been. He was far away, sleeping beneath stone forevermore. And yet, a gnawing hunger gripped her not for food but for something, someone. She pushed it away and rose to face the day, resolute in a way that often felt false to her, but strong nevertheless. As she stood in the sun her thin nightgown hinted at a figure that was once proud, her breasts like a figurehead plowing forward through the seas of life, now a little weathered from the storms but still enough to turn a man’s head. The prime minister’s quarters were vast and well appointed, if a bit masculine for her tastes. She wanted to redecorate it in the style of Autumfall, rich reds, bright yellows and somber browns and the forest motifs and painted birds of her house that Nathyn had so graciously allowed her to bring into their home but there was no time for that now. She was on the King’s business, and perhaps if she put that to rest she could focus back on her family and their halls. Hanging her gown on the dressing shade she sat before her wash basin and sponged herself clean with the warm water the chambermaid had brought before dawn. As she rinsed the salt of the night off of her tawny skin she felt her pores tightening, her areola pebbling up. She took a deep breath and composed herself as she pushed the hunger down again and dried herself with a rough towel. She could feel the beast clawing within her as she fought to control her breathing. It'd been caged and cowed for so long now but it was growing hungry again. And as its hunger grew, her own diminished. As its imaginings waxed stronger and stronger in her mind, and in her loins, thoughts of physical sustenance became anathema and every meal since she'd lost Nathyn was a chore. But she had much and more to do of a day as the responsibilities weighed heavily on her slender shoulders so she dutifully dressed and walked into her salon and went to table. She ate her porridge with currants. She ate her marbled toast with salt butter and she ate her summer sausage, but only for the strength to persevere for her family. The monster inside of her however cared nothing for bread and jam, nor for eel pies or figs. It wanted none of the succulent meats and cured fish laid out before her. It longed for meat of a different kind. Gods, she thought, it had been so long. Kate said her morning prayers and then brushed her auburn hair until it shone. She went over and over the details of Lord Protector Leyman’s tedious dispute over fishing grounds in preparation for her meeting with him in the afternoon. And when a knocking on her chamber door startled her from some mid-morning ponderings she was happy for the interruption.
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Aug 25, 2012 01:24
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Get to the loving. Also, I love that the American Tolkien basically writes books about England, and those books bear absolutely no relationship to the linguistic and mythological themes that Tolkien worked with.
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Aug 25, 2012 02:12
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Thulsa Doom posted:Get to the loving. I've read chapter 11 and I think I'm doing a nice job of
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Aug 25, 2012 02:23
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Thulsa Doom posted:Get to the loving. And how much of Plantagenet England bore much relationship to Old English Literature?
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Aug 25, 2012 05:35
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Are there any other book series out there that work mostly on perceptual bias? ASoIaF was the first narrative I read that did so in a nonacademic way, so that was what really drew me to the series. His weird nipple fetish and Jets obsession aside, this has to be a hard series to write; essentially shifting frame of mind every time you write a new chapter.
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Aug 25, 2012 05:53
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So GRRM is getting a lifetime achievement award at World Fantasy Convention in November, which is deceptively not Worldcon, the World Science Fiction Convention. As a result, GRRM will not actually be in attendance for his award. Oddly enough the knockoff Worldcon has a much nicer website! Thulsa Doom posted:Get to the loving. OHHHHH, you're Ambiguatron! Son of a bitch, you should have changed your name and avatar in stages, let us get used to it.
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Aug 25, 2012 05:56
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Thulsa Doom posted:Get to the loving. Thank god, because that poo poo is monumentally droll.
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Aug 25, 2012 05:57
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your choice of the word 'droll' when you meant 'dull' is certainly droll.
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Aug 25, 2012 08:39
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Thulsa Doom posted:There are female fantasy writers? Are they also unicorns? Wait, wait, hold up. Is it a surprise that there are female fantasy writers? Butler and LeGuin are pillars of the whole genre and the cohort working today (I'm thinking particularly of Cat Valente and Kij Johnson) are among the strongest writers in genre, in any time period. I'd hazard a guess that most of them have a bone to pick with Martin, too. Sophia posted:Tamora Pierce is hands down my favorite female fantasy author, though I can't speak to the authenticity of her male characters. They seemed okay to me, but it's hard to judge. She also writes in the medieval sphere, so everyone is a tough fighter, but they don't come off as brutishly macho. Guess who I teach a two week writing workshop with every summer 
General Battuta fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Aug 25, 2012 |
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Aug 25, 2012 08:43
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My new book "Jeyne Eyre: Meet the Boltons" published by Quirk Books imprint Squirt Books is coming out next month, check it out yo
bigmcgaffney fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Aug 25, 2012 |
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Aug 25, 2012 10:01
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Aurubin posted:Are there any other book series out there that work mostly on perceptual bias? ASoIaF was the first narrative I read that did so in a nonacademic way, so that was what really drew me to the series. His weird nipple fetish and Jets obsession aside, this has to be a hard series to write; essentially shifting frame of mind every time you write a new chapter. A lot of Stephen King books do this, though it's not really a series. I mean, the Dark Tower I guess. He likes to jump in and out of different character's heads. Terry Pratchett is similar. General Battuta posted:Guess who I teach a two week writing workshop with every summer That is awesome! I really like most of her stuff, though I bet she is really weird in real life. It's almost inevitable.
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Aug 25, 2012 15:02
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Aurubin posted:Are there any other book series out there that work mostly on perceptual bias? ASoIaF was the first narrative I read that did so in a nonacademic way, so that was what really drew me to the series. His weird nipple fetish and Jets obsession aside, this has to be a hard series to write; essentially shifting frame of mind every time you write a new chapter. I kind of feel that most fantasy novels work on that third-person limited approach. Wheel of Time, Joe Abercrombie, etc. Hell, even A Game of Bones does that and it has only marginally more nipple fetish than Ice and Fire. I might just be totally misunderstanding what you're talking about though.
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Aug 25, 2012 16:16
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Third person limit is basically the default for all fiction now, if it isn't first person. I think what we're getting at here is that some of the narration may be unreliable. I don't think that Sandor actually has bones poking out of his head and half his face gone, Sansa just seems him that way. Of course, it may simply be that GRRM is unaware that a person that severely burned would die of infection and wouldn't be able to talk, but the unreliable narration thing is more satisfying, especially since there seem to be some more examples of it in the series. Jordan actually did this a lot, to his credit. There's a great deal of information hidden in the narrative that he writes because the character he's writing doesn't see it as important and the prose glosses over it. He actually manages to use it for plot purposes with a type of monster that appears mundane and unnoticeable until it attacks you; after one of them appears you can usually flip back a few pages and see that the narration off-handedly mentioned it but didn't emphasize its presence.
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Aug 25, 2012 16:21
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So what are the various points-of-view, exactly? Obviously there's first-person, the POV of choice for all those paranormal romance novels, which I take zero umbrage with except when it becomes a crutch as it seems to be in a lot of the aforementioned genre. Are Choose-Your-Own-Adventure books a second-person narrative, as they always prattle on about "YOU open the door and are brutally eviscerated! Turn to page 348 if you mash your intestines back into your abdominal cavity, or turn to page 5 if you call on the dark powers of Shub-Niggurath to claim vengeance undying."? Then there's, what? Third-person limited and... omnipotent, I guess?
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Aug 25, 2012 16:37
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Aren't pretty much all narratives omnipotent? Unless there's audience participation or something.
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Aug 25, 2012 16:45
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Well, I dunno. I assumed if there was a "limited" viewpoint, being the events filtered through a specific person like in a given chapter of GoT, there must be a countering "omnipotent" one where it's sort of all over the place, perhaps switching viewpoints or something to give a thorough picture.
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Aug 25, 2012 16:55
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:So what are the various points-of-view, exactly? Obviously there's first-person, the POV of choice for all those paranormal romance novels, which I take zero umbrage with except when it becomes a crutch as it seems to be in a lot of the aforementioned genre. Benito Mussolini, of all people, actually wrote a novel in second person. It was apparently decent-ish.
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Aug 25, 2012 16:57
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Well, I dunno. I assumed if there was a "limited" viewpoint, being the events filtered through a specific person like in a given chapter of GoT, there must be a countering "omnipotent" one where it's sort of all over the place, perhaps switching viewpoints or something to give a thorough picture. (You mean omniscient  )
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Aug 25, 2012 16:59
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Maybe I do, tough guy. Maybe I loving do.
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Aug 25, 2012 16:59
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The most common POVs are first person and third person limited (far and away the most popular). You also get second person and third person omniscient sometimes. A lot of older fiction uses third person omniscient; Tolkien liked to slip into it in The Hobbit and early in LOTR.
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Aug 25, 2012 18:03
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whowhatwhere posted:your choice of the word 'droll' when you meant 'dull' is certainly droll. Whatever. The books were just terrible.
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Aug 25, 2012 18:17
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Azure_Horizon posted:Whatever. The books were just terrible. I keep telling you that! Oh wait, you meant some other ones.
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Aug 25, 2012 18:58
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Tolkien's books are in some ways very bad, in the same way that Poe's mysteries are in some ways very bad, or Austen's romances. When you're the first person doing something, it kind of comes with the territory. That doesn't mean that the books are not ultimately superior to a lot of modern ones which had the benefit of not being first, though.
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Aug 25, 2012 20:00
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Hi I'm Tom Bombadil, you can go ahead and skip the next 75 pages or so!
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Aug 25, 2012 20:09
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gently caress You, Tom Bombadil owns.
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Aug 25, 2012 20:36
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I still don't understand how Tolkien is so popular, at all. LOTR is so incredibly dry, and it breaks every rule of good writing. There's no development, for example, of Legolas and Gimli becoming friends, the text literally says "and Legolas and Gimli became fast friends" and that's it, and everything about Aragorn and Arwen is in an appendix. It's stunningly bad and it would never be published today. I get the whole psuedomythlogical thing and all the work he put into entire constructed languages and such, but how that translated into enduring popularity boggles my mind.
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Aug 25, 2012 20:44
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He more or less did it first, and the mythology is really well done if you can get past the writing being so godawful dry.whowhatwhere posted:gently caress You, Tom Bombadil owns. I bet A_H thinks so too.
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Aug 25, 2012 20:49
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Thulsa Doom posted:I still don't understand how Tolkien is so popular, at all. LOTR is so incredibly dry, and it breaks every rule of good writing. There's no development, for example, of Legolas and Gimli becoming friends, the text literally says "and Legolas and Gimli became fast friends" and that's it, and everything about Aragorn and Arwen is in an appendix. It's stunningly bad and it would never be published today. I dunno, this is kind of like complaining that Columbus took a really inefficient route to get to the other side of the Atlantic. I mean, that's true, but he still did it, and inspired a lot of other people to do it, so of course he's going to be noteworthy and famous forever. What he did was the catalyst for a ton of stuff that came after him.
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Aug 25, 2012 21:17
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whowhatwhere posted:gently caress You, Tom Bombadil owns. I think he's rad, but I always always skim through his section. There's just something about him that's pleasing but it wears thin quickly, like a weird uncle who's cool to see for an afternoon. You like his company, he's fun and interesting, yet you cannot fathom going camping all weekend with the guy and escaping without suspicion of murder.
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Aug 25, 2012 21:39
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Thulsa Doom posted:I still don't understand how Tolkien is so popular, at all. LOTR is so incredibly dry, and it breaks every rule of good writing. There's no development, for example, of Legolas and Gimli becoming friends, t.he text literally says "and Legolas and Gimli became fast friends" and that's it, and everything about Aragorn and Arwen is in an appendix. It's stunningly bad and it would never be published today. Because when you think "enduring mass popularity" you think "well-written". I'd say that the reason it was as popular as it was pre-movies offs because everyone reads it when they're kids and have no taste, and then remember it fondly enough to pass along to their kids without rereading it themselves.
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Aug 25, 2012 23:03
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whowhatwhere posted:Because when you think "enduring mass popularity" you think "well-written". If not well written, fiction that has a broad following is usually engaging. LOTR really isn't.
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Aug 25, 2012 23:05
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whowhatwhere posted:Because when you think "enduring mass popularity" you think "well-written". Look at you talking about having discerning taste in books in The Bad Thread.
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Aug 25, 2012 23:33
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I read it when I was a kid and have never read it since. I have also done that with almost every book I've read, for example see: A Game of Thrones by George R R Martin
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Aug 26, 2012 00:26
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It was speculated on the boiledleather Tumblr that Big Walder killed Little Walder. Is that a baseless assumption (it was asked as part of a Q&A and was not substantiated) or is there proof other than Little Walder being Ramsay's twat?
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Aug 26, 2012 00:31
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Sophia posted:I dunno, this is kind of like complaining that Columbus took a really inefficient route to get to the other side of the Atlantic. I mean, that's true, but he still did it, and inspired a lot of other people to do it, so of course he's going to be noteworthy and famous forever. What he did was the catalyst for a ton of stuff that came after him. That still doesn't make Tolkien superior to the multitude of other, better fantasy writers that came after, even GRRM. Doing it first doesn't make you inimitable, and Columbus wasn't even the first to reach the Americas!
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Aug 26, 2012 00:43
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