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Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

by VideoGames
Hell Gem
Don't repeating crossbows have significantly less range than regular longbows/guns/crossbows?

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jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Jamwad Hilder posted:

There's no reason they have to have fodder units though. Dwarfs, Empire, and Wood Elves don't really have fodder troops on par with zombies, peasants, or goblins.

Spearmen, miners, and shieldless eternal guard are all really cheap, really lovely units that serve the same function but with a bit more cost. Think of them as elite cannon fodder.

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

^ Will probably have DE warriors with swords and no shields as the base shittiest unit then, I think to add a spear +1 points.

Mordja posted:

Don't repeating crossbows have significantly less range than regular longbows/guns/crossbows?


They were 24" on tabletop, I think High Elf Bows had 30". Really the downside of them was when going full auto at range you had like -2 to you Dex so accuracy was iffy. But then again you were shooting 40 bolts.

Gejnor
Mar 14, 2005

Fun Shoe
I feel like i have to keep repeating this: Dark Elves are clad in full platemail, they will have good armour, the same is true for high elves.

I know in TT they had "poor" armour but CA won't translate that part over. Low HP and low unit counts will be the deciding factor for balancing.

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

Gejnor posted:

I feel like i have to keep repeating this: Dark Elves are clad in full platemail, they will have good armour, the same is true for high elves.

I really don't know how well CA has translated the table top to this game when it comes to armor, but I can only think of Blackguard and then executioners (When they buffed them) as getting actual armor. Warriors have light armor and everyone else has none or light armor with some gimmicky stuff like cloaks or w/e that act as armor.

I also haven't paid attention to warhammer rules since before they release this sigmar stuff.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

BadLlama posted:

I just looked at the GW store for warhams and Dark Elves are considered Order now? And Bretonnia doesn't exist?
Probably Age of Sigmar poo poo. I think it turned out that Malekith was secretly the rightful Phoenix King all along so he took over Ulthuan and rules all of the aelfs (ugh) now.


Gejnor posted:

I feel like i have to keep repeating this: Dark Elves are clad in full platemail, they will have good armour, the same is true for high elves.

I know in TT they had "poor" armour but CA won't translate that part over. Low HP and low unit counts will be the deciding factor for balancing.
One reason wood elves are so strong in melee is that their high defense is hard to counter by other melee units, whereas you can bring AP to fight high armored units. Nominally the weakness to melee defense stats is that it doesn't protect you from arrows, but having Glade Guard on hand to shred enemy crossbowmen sure does. Dark/High elves having high melee stats and armor but topping out at Swiftshiver range (at best), low health, and low model count seems like something you could fight.

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

Ravenfood posted:

Probably Age of Sigmar poo poo. I think it turned out that Malekith was secretly the rightful Phoenix King all along so he took over Ulthuan and rules all of the aelfs (ugh) now.

:smuggo:

Glad he got what we all knew was true, but what about all the murdering and piracy now and drugs.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I always liked the idea that Malekith was the legitimate king, but everything he's done since getting screwed out of it has proven the guys who screwed him over to have been completely right and that he's a spiteful little dick who should never rule anything.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

BadLlama posted:

:smuggo:

Glad he got what we all knew was true, but what about all the murdering and piracy now and drugs.
Rightful king bro, everything he did was now cool and good and smart and forgiven, because GW is good at writing.


Night10194 posted:

I always liked the idea that Malekith was the legitimate king, but everything he's done since getting screwed out of it has proven the guys who screwed him over to have been completely right and that he's a spiteful little dick who should never rule anything.
Same.

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011

by FactsAreUseless
Fun Shoe
We need a catapult that fires buckets of nails or something.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Night10194 posted:

I always liked the idea that Malekith was the legitimate king, but everything he's done since getting screwed out of it has proven the guys who screwed him over to have been completely right and that he's a spiteful little dick who should never rule anything.

Nobody tell him about how they handled elfs in the End Times.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

by VideoGames
Hell Gem

ditty bout my clitty posted:

We need a catapult that fires buckets of nails or something.

I think that's literally an Ogre siege weapon.

Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

ditty bout my clitty posted:

We need a catapult that fires buckets of nails or something.

Halflings have a Hot Pot catapult, which is clearly more awesome.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬

Mordja posted:

I think that's literally an Ogre siege weapon.

Really? Because I was expecting the Ogres to have something like a giant cannon that launched Ogres armed with smaller cannons that they fired at targets on the way down. Which in turn use gnoblars as ammunition.

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011

by FactsAreUseless
Fun Shoe

Angry Lobster posted:

Halflings have a Hot Pot catapult, which is clearly more awesome.

Oh god they have a tank with a soup cannon

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003

vampire count campaign begins with the traditional Moot invasion; but this time the tables have turned!!

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011
Anyone used Cataph's Wizard Lord buffs? It seems like it just gives Gelt, Kemmler, et al a few free skillpoints so they actually start with some spells that you couldn't get at that level, ideally bringing them up to par with some of the later DLC caster lords, but I'm not sure. I'm not looking for a huge overhaul like his magic changes or something that makes caster lords overpowered, just something that makes them not utter trash. I haven't played since the most recent patch which supposedly buffed them as well so I don't even know if it is necessary.

Also looking for any other high-quality mods. I'd love to use a huge map pack, but apparently the quality varies greatly and Dwarf/Greenskin cities lost their walls. If there are any standout maps that I need to include, I'd love reccs on them too. I played a full Empire long campaign (and several other factions) at launch but am looking to give them another go now that all the DLC has probably changed their start quite a bit, so Empire-focused mods I should use would be cool too. Thanks!

e: Or Cataph's other packs, like his "more lord types"?

Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Mar 28, 2017

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

When you guys do an empire campaign, when do you take Marienburg? It was always on my list of "I need to take this drat city for its sweet cash monies" but come the time chaos hits the field I still havent gotten around to taking it. Vampires were being way to aggressive and I had to take care of them.

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...

BadLlama posted:

When you guys do an empire campaign, when do you take Marienburg? It was always on my list of "I need to take this drat city for its sweet cash monies" but come the time chaos hits the field I still havent gotten around to taking it. Vampires were being way to aggressive and I had to take care of them.

after i unify reikland

ZearothK
Aug 25, 2008

I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021


Angry Lobster posted:

Halflings have a Hot Pot catapult, which is clearly more awesome.

My dream DLC that isn't happening is a Sigmar's Heirs DLC adding Halflings, Ulrican units and some of the other specialist units missing for the Empire, as well as promoting some of the electors or their champions to playable legendaries.

John Charity Spring
Nov 4, 2009

SCREEEEE

got some chores tonight posted:

after i unify reikland

Yeah I make it a priority every single time. The very first thing I do after defeating the secessionists, usually around turn 15-20.

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

Ravenfood posted:

Anyone used Cataph's Wizard Lord buffs? It seems like it just gives Gelt, Kemmler, et al a few free skillpoints so they actually start with some spells that you couldn't get at that level, ideally bringing them up to par with some of the later DLC caster lords, but I'm not sure. I'm not looking for a huge overhaul like his magic changes or something that makes caster lords overpowered, just something that makes them not utter trash. I haven't played since the most recent patch which supposedly buffed them as well so I don't even know if it is necessary.

Also looking for any other high-quality mods. I'd love to use a huge map pack, but apparently the quality varies greatly and Dwarf/Greenskin cities lost their walls. If there are any standout maps that I need to include, I'd love reccs on them too. I played a full Empire long campaign (and several other factions) at launch but am looking to give them another go now that all the DLC has probably changed their start quite a bit, so Empire-focused mods I should use would be cool too. Thanks!

e: Or Cataph's other packs, like his "more lord types"?

For wizard lord buffs, I have a mod called "Legendary Wizard Lords" that adds some unique skills to Gelt and Kemmler.
I'm not a big fan of Cataph's magic mod. Mostly that it changes the AoE values on spells so that none of them quite feel right, and it makes the fire skull way overpowered.
I've tried out the ultimate minor settlement map pack, but ended up uninstalling it. The maps themselves are fine, but the AI has no idea how to handle them, so it will often defend a settlement by deploying everything in a thin line against one edge of the town. If the AI supported the maps, I'd like them a lot better, although the fact that they're so heavily forested makes it difficult to fight in sometimes.
I'm mildly fond of the All Tabletop Lords pack. It's nothing spectacular, but adds in some neat variety to stuff. I like it best as Vampires, since it adds in the other bloodlines.
I also quite like the mod to add Metal and Death wizards to the Empire as heroes. I don't even like those lores, but Empire should have all eight, dammit!

blindwoozie
Mar 1, 2008

Panfilo posted:

Really? Because I was expecting the Ogres to have something like a giant cannon that launched Ogres armed with smaller cannons that they fired at targets on the way down. Which in turn use gnoblars as ammunition.

They have the Ironblaster which is a Giant cannon. Like, a cannon actually used and made by Giants long ago. They've taken them and propped them up with mammoth tusks on the back of a Woolly Rhino, that pulls it on a chariot. I can't loving wait to see what size of cannonball/shrapnel it fires.

KPC_Mammon
Jan 23, 2004

Ready for the fashy circle jerk

Kaza42 posted:

I also quite like the mod to add Metal and Death wizards to the Empire as heroes. I don't even like those lores, but Empire should have all eight, dammit!

This really bothers me too, but I'm pretty sure an amethyst or gold wizard that looks like one of the other wizards would bother me even more.

How do they look?

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer
Dell Laptop:

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7500U CPU @ 2.70 ghz 2.9ghz
16.0GB Ram
64 bit Operating System

Will this laptop be able to run the game at an ok to decent level?

Eediot Jedi
Dec 25, 2007

This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

Someone please make a series of multiplayer maps that are obstacle courses for doom divers, then let's race, tia

GuardianOfAsgaard
Feb 1, 2012

Their steel shines red
With enemy blood
It sings of victory
Granted by the Gods

Hunt11 posted:

Dell Laptop:

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7500U CPU @ 2.70 ghz 2.9ghz
16.0GB Ram
64 bit Operating System

Will this laptop be able to run the game at an ok to decent level?

What graphics card, if any? If it doesn't have dedicated graphics then no chance.

DarthRoblox
Nov 25, 2007
*rolls ankle* *gains 15lbs* *apologizes to TFLC* *rolls ankle*...
What's the go to strategy for being down some welves as the brets? Their war dancers have something insane like 65 melee attack and their archers just run away from my knights and pepper them with arrows until my guys say gently caress this and run away.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

GuardianOfAsgaard posted:

What graphics card, if any? If it doesn't have dedicated graphics then no chance.

Radeon (TM) R7 M445

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


Viking_Helmet posted:

What's the go to strategy for being down some welves as the brets? Their war dancers have something insane like 65 melee attack and their archers just run away from my knights and pepper them with arrows until my guys say gently caress this and run away.

Go absolutely loving nuts with cavalry, especially Questing Knights. Wardancers melt when charged, so do archers. If it's not working, you don't have enough cavalry.

GuardianOfAsgaard
Feb 1, 2012

Their steel shines red
With enemy blood
It sings of victory
Granted by the Gods

Hunt11 posted:

Radeon (TM) R7 M445

In that case I would say no, not playable to any kind of satisfactory level. Not sure what resolution your screen is but you'd be looking at a slideshow at 1080p and sub-30fps on minimum settings at 1024x768.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

GuardianOfAsgaard posted:

In that case I would say no, not playable to any kind of satisfactory level. Not sure what resolution your screen is but you'd be looking at a slideshow at 1080p and sub-30fps on minimum settings at 1024x768.

That is really disappointing to hear. Thank you for the help as I much rather find this out now then later.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

wiegieman posted:

Go absolutely loving nuts with cavalry, especially Questing Knights. Wardancers melt when charged, so do archers. If it's not working, you don't have enough cavalry.

:agreed: If you're using non-cavalry units as Bretonnia you're making a huge mistake.

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.
I was like b b b but I need them for seiges. Then I started attaching a small support army of trebuchets to just knock over a wall and the front door so a million horsies can take the square.

Syrnn
Aug 16, 2004

Ravenfood posted:

Anyone used Cataph's Wizard Lord buffs? It seems like it just gives Gelt, Kemmler, et al a few free skillpoints so they actually start with some spells that you couldn't get at that level, ideally bringing them up to par with some of the later DLC caster lords, but I'm not sure. I'm not looking for a huge overhaul like his magic changes or something that makes caster lords overpowered, just something that makes them not utter trash. I haven't played since the most recent patch which supposedly buffed them as well so I don't even know if it is necessary.

Having been the thread nay-sayer and Supreme Patriarch of the College of Complaining in regards to Gelt and his usefulness, I am eating my own words mixed in a big steaming pile of poo poo right now. The latest patch has indeed given magic in general enough of a nudge that Wizard Lords Are Good. Not great, but definitely good. Magic packs a bit more of a punch (but be mindful of your Unit Size setting, I stick to Large), and even Searing Doom is worth the Winds. They definitely are not going to be as easy of a start, but once you get over the hump, they hold their own if you build your armies and strategy around their benefits. It's more for a small twist on their faction's gameplay than anything, and is certainly a small handicap if you don't go out of your way for it.

With Gelt, you want to make sure you have a healthy amount of line infantry since his +10 armour globally makes each and every State Troop out there a bit more worth the upkeep, and keep plenty of AP in his stack (esp. handgunners, artillery) as his personal +% AP passive makes his army the proverbial hot butter knife. For Kemmler, it's more that his Lores are very potent and still got buffed. His gimmick of course, you want to have plenty of expendable units like bats and dogs that you throw to disrupt and pin the parts of the army that you aren't grinding down, because -25% Raise Dead cost is only really helping you if you have the room for raising. On the plus side, even deaths on your side contribute to the quality of troops Raise Dead offers, so before long you can make some nifty Black Knights out of all those discarded Dire Wolf remains (somehow). With Azhag, youz just go, ya git! :orks:

madmac
Jun 22, 2010

Syrnn posted:

Having been the thread nay-sayer and Supreme Patriarch of the College of Complaining in regards to Gelt and his usefulness, I am eating my own words mixed in a big steaming pile of poo poo right now. The latest patch has indeed given magic in general enough of a nudge that Wizard Lords Are Good. Not great, but definitely good. Magic packs a bit more of a punch (but be mindful of your Unit Size setting, I stick to Large), and even Searing Doom is worth the Winds. They definitely are not going to be as easy of a start, but once you get over the hump, they hold their own if you build your armies and strategy around their benefits. It's more for a small twist on their faction's gameplay than anything, and is certainly a small handicap if you don't go out of your way for it.

With Gelt, you want to make sure you have a healthy amount of line infantry since his +10 armour globally makes each and every State Troop out there a bit more worth the upkeep, and keep plenty of AP in his stack (esp. handgunners, artillery) as his personal +% AP passive makes his army the proverbial hot butter knife. For Kemmler, it's more that his Lores are very potent and still got buffed. His gimmick of course, you want to have plenty of expendable units like bats and dogs that you throw to disrupt and pin the parts of the army that you aren't grinding down, because -25% Raise Dead cost is only really helping you if you have the room for raising. On the plus side, even deaths on your side contribute to the quality of troops Raise Dead offers, so before long you can make some nifty Black Knights out of all those discarded Dire Wolf remains (somehow). With Azhag, youz just go, ya git! :orks:

Yeah, the magic changes last patch were really good overall. I'm using a lot of spells I didn't think much of before.

If nothing else, I do think Kemmler benefits from Vlad being split off into another faction, since there's an argument for starting Kemmler again. Kemmler's starting army and campaign bonus is as good or better than Mannfred and Ghorst and they're both super-easy to unlock so it's not nearly as unthinkable as it was when it meant giving up Vlad.

Gelt is just kinda solid now, his campaign bonus is easily the best out of the three Empire Lords and his spells are good now but his starting game is still rough and enemy lords are a huge pain until he gets a captain to help out.

Azhag is still kinda crap starting out TBH, but the buffs to Death Magic are nice for him and the regiments of renown/skulkers do make it a lot easier to blitz for the crown.

Malagor is another caster lord back from the grave, he always had a great skill tree but he's not weighed down by Lore of the Wild being poo poo anymore and he got some melee buffs on top so the itch to play another Beastman campaign with Malagor has been growing lately.

ZearothK
Aug 25, 2008

I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021


Hunt11 posted:

Dell Laptop:

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7500U CPU @ 2.70 ghz 2.9ghz
16.0GB Ram
64 bit Operating System

Will this laptop be able to run the game at an ok to decent level?

GuardianOfAsgaard posted:

In that case I would say no, not playable to any kind of satisfactory level. Not sure what resolution your screen is but you'd be looking at a slideshow at 1080p and sub-30fps on minimum settings at 1024x768.

I have a similar setup and the game runs pretty decently with most settings on medium.

oswald ownenstein
Jan 30, 2011

KING FAGGOT OF THE SHITPOST KINGDOM
All I know is dwarf warriors or regular longbeards are dead, and I'll be damned before I waste money on ironbreakers, but longbeards with great weapons are loving fantastic now.

Syrnn
Aug 16, 2004

ZearothK posted:

I have a similar setup and the game runs pretty decently with most settings on medium.

Jesus, I run on a Phenom II 1045T with 8 gigs ram and a GeForce 550Ti at only 4gigs vram and I still run on slightly-above-Medium with no problems.

edit for content: I've been using the debug camera for a while since I can't stand the low 'ceiling' it has before going into the utterly pointless tactical view, but I hate the way it also clips through the ground now. Is there a way to get the debug's extra zoom-out without clipping through the ground when I want to get in low and look at the action?

Syrnn fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Mar 29, 2017

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Aurubin
Mar 17, 2011

All the mods out there and still no one could be arsed to keep any of the Kislev ones updated. The not-Russians can't catch a break in or out of the fiction.

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