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They're not bad in heroes 4 and 5 since they give you money. Just don't actually try to fight with them. They're more useful than imps in 4 and unupgraded skeletons in 5.
Poil fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 19:48
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Turning the skeletons into archers in Heroes 5 was one of those things where I thought "why didn't they do that in 3?" Also, Darth you can post the update now 
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Oct 14, 2014 21:58
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Aces High posted:Turning the skeletons into archers in Heroes 5 was one of those things where I thought "why didn't they do that in 3?"
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Oct 14, 2014 23:11
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I beat The Jester! Woot. Rushing was right. I managed to luck out an get 30 centaurs and 20 gargoyles to join my troop, overpower the druids and get me a barbarian castle to the east before the end of week 3. Getting a purse of gold artifact on week 2 really helped as well. A week later the western sorceress castle fell and 2 weeks later I got the last AI. I lucked out since the last fukcer had two castles,a village and 3 gold mines. If that was any castle but knight, it would have been much harder. 
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Oct 15, 2014 05:31
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I always listen to what Aces says. Update 13 We start this update with a letter, don't worry there is only one letter left after this one. 11th Day of the Month of the Lizard, Common Year 641 posted:
 "And rain! It never stopped.  " 11th Day of the Month of the Lizard, Common Year 641 posted:
"Because our catapults suck, the people here have no idea how to aim."  11th Day of the Month of the Lizard, Common Year 641 posted:
"Oh wait, that's probably not the best thing to say right now." 11th Day of the Month of the Lizard, Common Year 641 posted:
 You know, I like how he gets bolder with each letter. Let's get started on this level, what was I doing again?  Oh right. This is surprisingly specific. So I need to head northeast to defeat him? Sounds easy enough. The desert part however doesn’t sound so good. Remember, barbarians don’t have a movement penalty on the sands. However this only counts for their barbarian heroes and the AI isn't smart enough to take this into consideration. It might be worth it to get a barbarian hero myself. As I mentioned earlier these next three maps we'll be facing off against our competitors one at time. As such, this seems like the perfect moment to do a faction overview.  For the Knights: We have 1 shooter, 4 melee units and peasants. This makes the Knight town the least balanced army in the game and, as witnessed time and again, badly equipped to perform sieges. Still, units are cheap. In fact, the knight town is the only town that can buy everything of their base growth on their weekly salary. They do come up short when they want to buy all units with the well, lacking 1.580 gold. The question then becomes, archers or pikemen. Leaving the archers gives you extra speed since the slowest unit is medium speed, but you'll never be able to wait out the enemy. At least the two strongest units are fast so you can close the gap in either the first or the second turn. Bringing archers allows you to wait for the enemy to come to you and in the case of the AI it gives them a nice big target to aim for. Unfortunately they're not very good and they're slow. It's ironic that the knights are supposed to blitz their enemies, but get saddled with two tiers of slow units. So how do we stack up against our barbarian targets?  The barbarians have 2 shooters and 4 melee units. On their weekly salary they come up just short to buy everything. One poor goblin will be left behind.  Going on the offensive they rely on their cyclopes (I thought it was spelled cyclopses  ), trolls and wolves. They need the wolves for the speed as they are the only barbarian unit with a speed rating of fast. I take it running is problematic for the cyclops due depth perception problems. Knights are all about defense and they wipe the floor with the Barbarian defensive capabilities. Interestingly the barbarian is only slightly higher in total attack even though that should be their forte, in fact taking into account the specialty of the paladins and the wolves the knights have a better attack score. And if we ignore the HP gap, I'd say the knights are far superior to the barbarians. I feel good about my chances. Putting the scores next to each other like this you can almost see the attempt at balance New World Computing was going for.   Enough numbers. Today’s hero du jour is lord Kilburn. As usual, he starts back at level 1 again. Look at all those resources someone left lying around. Hey, I have a village as well as a town.  Welcome to Winterkill. I detect irony in the name of this town and the map it's on. It’s surprisingly well built. In fact, looking at the building schematics if I could get crystal I could immediately build paladins. As it stands though I think I’ll start with cavalry since I don’t immediately see any crystal mines in my vicinity. The village disappointingly only contains archers and peasants. There is plenty of money lying around and I see a sawmill. Usually there are resource piles near the production facility. Money is one of the bottle necks so, so I’ll upgrade the village first and concentrate on getting this town up and running faster with the extra money. The wood I use up can be replenished with the piles near the sawmill so I can still get my cavalry. I also want to cover some ground. So Kilburn buys the swordsmen and pikemen, but leaves the archers and peasants behind. This helps his speed and I’ll buy a second hero who can have the other units he left behind so that hero can go attacking neutral stacks and collect resources. Kilburn buys a spell book allowing him to cast the powerful magics Morglin spoke of. Powerful spells such as bless, view mines and view resources would've turned Guthbert into toast and thus are sure to turn the tides of battle!  At least another excuse to use view mines again. The nearest crystal mine is in the lower left corner of the map. So I probably made the right call. I do see something that worries me, the barbarians have multiple crystal mines on their ground. They need crystal to build their level 6 units.  He picks up the two piles of gold (+1.400) and he attacks the gargoyles.  I bless the swordsmen for the extra damage.  I’m not sure why, but the AI prefers to attack the swordsmen. So whenever one dies the next moves to the swordsmen. The Pikemen and the Swordsmen work together killing one stack a time.  Teamwork!  Victory, now to claim our prize.  It’s the mage ring giving a very pleasant +2 to spell power so at least my bless will work more than one turn.  The second hero is Troyan. She begins by picking up the gold to the right of the castle, which is 3.400 in total. Day 2:  Killburn picks up the wood piles and it’s 28 in total. More than enough for a jousting arena. I want to do more, but the jousting arena costs 3.000. I don't have that money right now, so I’ll have Troyan collect more money first.  I now have the option of getting a barbarian hero or a knight hero. The movement advantage will be nice no matter if he ends up being a mule or a real hero.  He hands off the new cavalry and the orcs to Kilburn who will get the orcs killed when he attacks the centaurs guarding the sawmill.  It’s not the same as getting orcs killed, but I think I prefer this outcome. Let’s welcome 38 centaurs to the army. Day 3:  Antoine can have his smelly orcs back. We have faster half horse men to help us out now.  Kilburn heads to pick up the wood (+25) and scout the area up there. Antoine heads to the left.  He finds a desert and a shrine that can teach us bless. Not a very useful shrine since we already know it.  Troyan picks up the ore(+16) and attacks the goblins guarding the mine.  This should be easy enough.  We plan to wait them out.  This goes well for about 2 turns.  The peasants were the only melee unit I had that was able to kill a stack of goblins in a single go and this after they were hit first. This shot is the sprites retaliation against a single goblin trying to avenge his fallen brethren.  The dwarves finish what they started.  Victory tastes like an ore mine. I have money and both Kilburn and Troyan can actually cast spells now (even if Kilburn can only do it once). So I buy a mage guild lvl2 for the main town and I buy a tavern in the other so I can work on swordsmen there.  Jackpot! It's beautiful! The best second level spells I could've received. Day 4:  Kilburn finds and visits a gazebo and he levels up. Other than that not much happens. I do buy an armory in the second town so I can buy swordsmen there. Day 5:  So I see boots of speed, pikemen and a rogue camp. This gives me an idea involving pikemen, rogues, Kilburn and boots of speed.  Meanwhile Troyan wanders a bit into the desert.  Antoine finds riches beyond imagination and I buy a well. Tomorrow is the 7th day, so adding a well to the second town will boost the growth there. This should let me start up a second weaker army. Knight needs crystal badly.  I miss my paladins. Day 6:  I can win this, but I don’t want to lose any cavalry or archers.  The centaurs are going to soften them up, but they only kill 2 per shot, which means they should be able to do a stack every two turns. Thanks to the AI failing at pathfinding I might be able to get three turns before we have to engage.  The rogues attack on the third turn killing 4 pikemen.  The cavalry block the way to the centaurs and kill three pikemen per attack. Hopefully I can keep them all alive.  Later games allow you to see how much HP a unit has left. In this case I have to keep a tally myself... but I’m too lazy to get some paper for that. I estimate they’re just beyond 20 damage.  Another round means two times 2 in damage on the cavalry.  I just hope that single pikeman at the top doesn’t try to attack them as well.  Or I block them with my less valuable and slightly damaged pikemen.  A single rogue was lost. I'm satisfied with this result.  Kilburn claims the prize and 2.000 in gold. Boots of speed are extremely welcome in this scenario. Antoine heads into the castle to wait for the new day. He can get some units, probably for Kilburn but maybe I´ll be nice and let him keep them so he can scout the desert with his superior movement. I want money to get units and have to strong armies so I can bring the fight to the barbarians instead of having them come to me. Yeah, this update is light on screenshots, but think of all the good times ahead of us. Darth TNT fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Dec 15, 2014 |
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Oct 15, 2014 12:17
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, would have been burnt to a crisp by the rivals he would face here.
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I honestly thought that the mentioning of Peasants as a type was something right out of the manual, showing the disdain that even New World shows for those malnourished sad sacks
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Oct 15, 2014 21:42
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I totally forgot that heroes had special abilities like ignoring movement penalties. That made this scenario really painful.
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Oct 17, 2014 18:00
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Hi guys, no update this week. I had a stomach bug and sitting upright playing this game didn't agree with me as well as I had hoped it would. On the bright side, looking at my schedule for this week, I can see some extra playing time coming up in addition to my usual playing time. Maybe I can make up for some lost time. 
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Oct 27, 2014 12:37
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well how much is left in the main campaign? If this were Heroes 2 we'd just barely be scratching the surface
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Oct 28, 2014 06:26
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Aces High posted:well how much is left in the main campaign? If this were Heroes 2 we'd just barely be scratching the surface I think I have an average of 4 updates per map. I'm on my third update now, but this map doesn't really count because my first update was short. There are three more maps to go with possibly a bonus map. I have an average update speed of glacial. So if the train leaves Lille at 8:00 AM I should meet it at Montreal and expect to be done somewhere around your 80th birthday? Maybe if the omelet du fromage breaks favorably we can finish before you're 79 years of age.I may be off a few days. I should probably add the map number to my table of contents. Heroes 2 didn't look that bad. If you only do one side it's only 10 maps, that's 2 maps more than this game.
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Oct 28, 2014 08:58
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well that is true if you take the quickest path, and there are some maps in Heroes 2 that can be done super quick as well.
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Oct 28, 2014 17:26
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Update 14 So last time we...I...the peasants…okay, so nothing really happened. I built some stuff and explored a small part of the map. That’s it. Day 7:  Kilburn was scouting the west and found a treasure chest with 2.000 gold. Do you see those two trees flanking the small lake near the edge of the fog of war? That’s what he’s visiting next because I have no idea what it is. This isn't the first time we've seen it, there was, amongst others, also one right next to my second knight castle in the previous map. But it was guarded by unicorns that I didn't feel like fighting.  Aha, it's a shrine.  So it’s like a thieves guild. I have more gold and two castles, but blue still has more castles than me. A complex calculation tells me that they will have at least 2 castles and a village or castle.  I don’t like that army strength flag. Didn’t they see my table in the previous update, I’m really strong! I also found a barbarian village!  Charge!   Barf!  Rogues are pretty good. Their speed and no retaliation really helps them get around and deal the damage.  My cavalry only did 39 damage, 1 point short of killing the ogre  I mostly did this for the experience and the money. Though maybe I should try and get trolls to help out. We can use some good ranged units. Spell power +1.  My new village is called Volcania and has just a goblin and orc dwelling. Now what do I need for trolls?  I need a castle and an abode. Including the cost of building the itself bridge that's 10.000 gold with 30 wood and 50 ore. I'm going to focus on paladins first.  Antoine uses his new army to attack more pikemen guarding cash. You guys should be fighting for me, against me.  I had hoped that they would join us. But they didn’t.  Everyone helps out in the skirmish.  But bad planning on my end still allows them to attack my archers.  The goblins get the last hit and Antoine claims victory. He’s going to scout the desert. According to the story we could find help there.  Anyway, to the victor go the spoils.  I was contemplating getting another hero, so for the hell of it I check heroes for hire to see if there is anyone worthwhile and this guy shows up. What the hell is the AI doing that they already lost a hero carrying an artifact?  I want that artifact and I thought about a hero, it must be a sign!  I also buy another mage guild in this town. Mr. Sothoth then goes to help Kilburn clean up the left side. Day 8:  This does remind me that this is a new spell: Summon boat: Summons the nearest unoccupied boat. I wonder if this can summon camels.   Antoine visits the gazebo. Meanwhile another jousting arena is built. Day 9:  The windmill provides us with 2 crystals. I love this miller. And I found a crystal mine, of course it’s guarded by archers.  Still I really want that mine.  The centaur population drops dramatically due to arrow disease, but fast units like the rogues and the cavalry block the archers on the next turn.  They slaughter them.   That purse would look stunning on me and even if it didn´t I could pay you to like it. It´s one of those limitless money purses!   2.000 bucks!  This is a steal for something that earns 500 me every day. I also discover this is one of the few times where the mine isn´t surrounded by its respective resource. Offscreen, Yog picks up a campfire with 6 crystals. I only need 4 more to get my cathedral!  Antoine goes prospecting. Day 10:  Almost.  Kilburn tangles with some elves guarding a sawmill.  Something is missing in this screenshot.  Vengeance is mine!  Victory and another sawmill! Considering my plans for the barbarian village an ore mine would've been better. There is one extra near my original castle guarded by nomads, I should probably get on that at some point. It just seems like a bit of a waste of time I should be spending attacking the barbarians.  Luck smiles upon me as the elves guarded a campfire which held crystal. This gives me exactly enough to buy a cathedral! If only I had more gold. Next turn however…  Yog claims the wood so Kilburn can scout around more and I start wondering if I should start scouting more up north soon.  Yog also provides Kilburn with his the lucky rabbits foot, because a lucky rabbits foot just looks silly on a barbarian. It will however perfectly complement Kilburn's man purse. Day 11:  Kilburn visits the gazebo and levels up adding another defense point to his collection. He also finds lots of elves and immediately heads back home. Cathedral time!  What’s all this then?  Two red eyes? That’s it? Home invasion tactics are go!  I'm sorry. Saying no causes him to eat Antoine, I don't want to lose him. Let’s just throw some of our money at him. Fortunately I had enough money left.  Time to free that alligator head!  We can do this!  So the griffins killed the sprites. I could have had the cavalry attack the griffins on the first turn, but I decided to guard the archers instead. Sprites were goners either way.  I lost a cavalry. Stupid low HP count.  Anyway, the swordmen were just short of killing the griffin, so the dwarf moved in to finish the job. The archers can easily kill the remaining two griffins on their turn.  Victory!  2.000 gold for a +3 to defense? Sounds good to me.  Right, I saved Antoine. Next turn then. Apparently a barbarian life is equal in value to a breastplate. Day 12:  New day, new alligator head. Troyan also recruits a few archers from the cottage.  Yog follows Troyans example.  Day 12: Still no spice. Fortunately we brought plenty of fresh human shaped rations. Day 13:  Kilburn is almost at home and Troyan reports in to give him some units and a breastplate.  No, he’s not going to pick up that gold. I just want to show you the road not taken. The sand doesn't slow him down, but the archers do. Day 14:  A good day to get units.  I buy another level of mage guild and the gold just keeps coming. I look forward to the coming battles.  Winterkill is coming! Day 15:  Kilburn visited the other castle to get some more units after which I decided he needs more bling. He has boots, a breastplate, a ring and a purse with rabbits foot keychain. He needs something on his head or he'll look ridiculous. So a quick stop at the dwarves and off we go.  I’m starting to wonder if those skeletons ever have anything. I’m going to upgrade my barbarian village when Kilburn is on his way. I have plenty of ore and wood and the gold flow is going well as well. Day 16:  We stare at the enemy.  Come meet your doom!  Practice makes perfect.  Adding bling to add a +1 to defense. We are tanky as hell.  What am I doing?  Archers kill most of them.  That is until the peasants join in. The last few stacks are killed by the peasants.  Knowledge +1, which is something I wish Kilburn would get. He has good spells, but can only cast them once.  Money and sulfur, not that I needed sulfur.  Yog finds crystal and gold. The gold was very welcome since it allows me to the following.  Yes please. Time to go for trolls for a second army. Day 17:  Suddenly blue out of nowhere! They didn’t come from the portal!  His army is not much, but the hero has either artifacts or a few levels behind him.  If you wanted to know how tanky we are. My swordsmen just took a rock to the face and I only lost 1.  So my paladins attacked his trolls and he immediately ran away. +1 attack for Kilburn. Now to find where he came from.  Yog finds another gate. I buy an abode in the barbarian town so I can buy a bridge next. Troyan will become a second army. Day 18:  Walking through the desert sucks. I bought a bridge. Day 19:  It’s not much, but doable. Especially with my stellar spell collection.  We found a dragon city. If you attack it you have to fight 5 dragons. If you win it acts like a gold mine guarded by, you guessed it, 5 dragons. I can easily take it, however... Day 20:  this happens. He came from the north, so Kilburn will be heading north.  He has 86 goblins.  I accidentally blocked my rogues. These guys are starting to become dead weight on this team.  Goblins fall to a single attack.  Morale smiles at me. The paladins should be enough to kill the Cyclops, so I have the cavalry attack the ogres. I hope I can finish it this turn to keep him from running.  The cavalry are in tune with my desires and procure a lucky strike!  Just short a Cyclops! Day 21:  Week of the druid!  And one pops up almost on top of Kilburn.  I trust Troyan to defend us now…or go after Kilburn and help siege.  Antoine finds the reinforcements, there’s a tent of nomads right here. Yog runs home to be a mule.  Troyan didn’t have anything to do, so she checks out the local shrine. I’m still weaker? What kind of armies is this guy hiding? Day 22:  The kind with zounds of goblins apparently.  It’s just over a hundred. Why does he have 10 attack? Oh, the enemy hero has 7.  I curse the trolls and move the paladins ahead to attack.  The goblins move and get a good morale boost. They attack the paladins and kill one.  He is not amused.  And so the strong survive.  The rogues want to help.  They poke the Cyclops in the eye.  The cavalry charge the Cyclops and kill two and the paladin kill 4 trolls.  You know what that means, run away!  Defense +1 for Kilburn. That which doesn’t kill him makes him harder to kill!  Antoine founds us some extra crystal. Next turn I can either build another cathedral or a pyramid. I’ll build a pyramid to give the Cyclops a chance to shine. I decide to invest in another hero to shorten the supply line to Kilburn. Day 23:  Yog buys units and prepares to run back. I was short on money to buy the pyramid anyway.  I’m coming to winter! I do see some horse legs there, we're being expected.  You know this seems like a good place to stop. Next time I lay siege on the enemy!  Oh come one, I already killed zounds of goblins, lots of Cyclops and loads (not an officially sanctioned Heroes amount) of trolls how can he still be stronger? Darth TNT fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 13:04
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Glad to see this updated, I was getting worried! Also you have a thousand times more patience than I tend to have re: supply lines of heroes.
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Nov 7, 2014 07:53
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Yeah not having supply lines is usually what makes scenarios drag for me because I'll be down to one little son of a bitch in a corner and they're all turtled up.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:32
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Yog has blue skin. I think that means he's an Elf Barbarian, and quite possibly specifically an Elf Barbarian from Terra or Xeen. On Enroth, in MM6 and MM7, the Elf characters looked like humans with pointy ears, but in 3-5 they were all shades of blue and grey. I wonder if he's a world traveler like yourself?
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Nov 9, 2014 11:21
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A straight-up instant kill, you say? OUCH.
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Nov 9, 2014 12:13
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ManxomeBromide posted:Yog has blue skin. I think that means he's an Elf Barbarian, and quite possibly specifically an Elf Barbarian from Terra or Xeen. On Enroth, in MM6 and MM7, the Elf characters looked like humans with pointy ears, but in 3-5 they were all shades of blue and grey. I wonder if he's a world traveler like yourself? He's a regular Darkside of Xeen Barbarian chief, they're all blue-skinned. Loads of character portraits in Heroes 1 are taken from World of Xeen with next to no modifications, even the names are usually the same.
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Nov 9, 2014 16:50
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I just discovered I don't own HoMM-2 on GoG, that was honestly a surprise. Guess I'll have to dig up my actual discs! I loved the poo poo outta these games as a kid, never did terribly well, but I played a lot of it. Are you going to play HoMM2 when you're done with 1?
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Nov 9, 2014 23:21
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WanderingMinstrel I posted:Glad to see this updated, I was getting worried! Also you have a thousand times more patience than I tend to have re: supply lines of heroes. Wait until you see the next update, neither desert nor snow will stop my mules. Speaking of next update, hell must have frozen over, because I expect to post it tomorrow. Nettle Soup posted:I just discovered I don't own HoMM-2 on GoG, that was honestly a surprise. Guess I'll have to dig up my actual discs! Dhamster was playing Heroes2 and while there are no rules against having multiple LPs of the same thing I don't think our tones or approach are different enough to warrant another LP. But I have no idea if he's still active as he hasn't updated in soooo long.  In addition, while I had never completed Heroes1, I have in the past completed Heroes2 removing a reason for me to want to finish it. I'm not an OCD completionist so if a different game that I haven't played and want to play comes along I fear that I would jump ship.Finally it's a fairly long game and I'm not very fast. On the other hand I still really like Heroes2. I figure if I do another I may jump to a heroes game I haven't finished (Heroes5, where I was attacking the tower faction with the undead before the same computer crash that claimed my heroes1 savegame claimed that savegame as well) or haven't played yet (Heroes4). But really even though I'm enjoying this, I'm not even certain if I'll do another LP. You know, I was planning on asking for opinions for a next game when I finished this LP. Since the topic has come up now: how bullshit is Heroes4? I have heard horror tales about heroes3 difficulty especially the expansions. Is Heroes 4 the same or is it actually doable for someone with
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Nov 10, 2014 14:58
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I wonder if not the Heroes 4 campaigns are generally a little easier than 3's. But that could just be me, and I haven't played any Heroes 3 expansion campaigns myself so I can't compare those. Just make sure you keep your heroes alive and used as much as possible. The life and order campaigns shouldn't be too hard since I've managed to beat those even on normal difficulty.  For the record: The game does not deserve all the hate usually spewed on it. Sure it's not perfect but it does handle some things better (some worse too of course). A few of the things I really liked was that ranged attacks/direct damage spells will be blocked by enemy units (a bit silly when you can't shoot arrows past a dwarf to hit a titan though), ranged units will retaliate ranged attacks and retaliation is done simultaneously with the attack unless someone has the first strike ability.
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Nov 10, 2014 15:30
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In my experience, the first and third campaign of Heroes 4 are pretty newbie-friendly. The other campaigns aren't, especially not on the first map(s) where your heroes are weak and vulnerable. They get easier, though. The core campaigns of Heroes 3 aren't too difficult, IMO, so long as you're agressive. Turtling while the enemy has more towns than you do is just asking for it. The expansion campaings for HoMM3 aren't really much fun though, IMO. Except for that one Shadow of Death Campaign where you run around raising Liches instead of Skeletons. That's pretty fun as a gimmick campaign, once you get to the point where you have 50+ liches and can just steamroll everything. Much of the dislike for HoMM4 consists of bemoaning either a) its downright terrible AI or b) the radically different hero system. A) is a kinda old-fashioned complaint by todays standards, since AFAIK there aren't many modern 4X games where the AI is really competetive, except maybe GalCiv 2. B) is still relevant though. I play HoMM4 sometimes for varieties sake, but I generally prefer Heroes 5 or 3. I don't think that HoMM4 is a downright bad game as such, but I do find it rather mediocre. Also different enough from the other Heroes games that liking them doesn't necessarily mean you'll like the fourth game. The one thing I really dislike about HoMM4 is a trait it shares with Heroes 1&2, though. Namely that you'll make nowhere near enough money to buy your weekly troops. HoMM4 is especially bad about this, though, because 1) your towns make even less money than a castle in the first two games, unless you pay to increase it up to 1000 gold/day 2) buildings seem to be more expensive than the first two games, and there's more stuff to pay for which competes with buying troops. I prefer the income model of Heroes 3 & 5, where you can build city halls and make decent amounts of money. Caustic Soda fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Nov 10, 2014 |
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Nov 10, 2014 16:00
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quote:Abode That said, it's great to see you updating again and I can't wait to see more of it!
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Nov 10, 2014 16:35
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Caustic Soda posted:In my experience, the first and third campaign of Heroes 4 are pretty newbie-friendly. The other campaigns aren't, especially not on the first map(s) where your heroes are weak and vulnerable. They get easier, though. The core campaigns of Heroes 3 aren't too difficult, IMO, so long as you're agressive. Turtling while the enemy has more towns than you do is just asking for it. The expansion campaings for HoMM3 aren't really much fun though, IMO. Except for that one Shadow of Death Campaign where you run around raising Liches instead of Skeletons. That's pretty fun as a gimmick campaign, once you get to the point where you have 50+ liches and can just steamroll everything. I think that part of the expensive buildings in 4 is because you can't upgrade them and that there are only 4 instead of 7 tiers. For example a level 2 unit in Heroes 4 is the equivalent of a level 3-4 unit in any other Heroes. But the market place in 4 is so much fairer so you can make up for it by trading resources for gold. Possibly the best way to make money is to hire might heroes from order, level them up on free exp buildings and then showing them inside a sawmill or something.
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Nov 10, 2014 17:11
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Poil posted:Possibly the best way to make money is to hire might heroes from order, level them up on free exp buildings and then showing them inside a sawmill or something. Very true. I'd go so far as to say that a player who doesn't or can't make use of Lords (Order Might) is at a significant disadvantage compared to those who do. When a town only earns 500 gold as a base, 100/hero starts looking much more attractive. In addition to the cash, there's also the Lords ability to boost creature growth in a given town by at least 10%. That adds up pretty quickly, even if you can only have one bonus from a Lord per city.
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Nov 10, 2014 19:43
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Caustic Soda posted:In my experience, the first and third campaign of Heroes 4 are pretty newbie-friendly. The other campaigns aren't, especially not on the first map(s) where your heroes are weak and vulnerable. They get easier, though. The core campaigns of Heroes 3 aren't too difficult, IMO, so long as you're agressive. Turtling while the enemy has more towns than you do is just asking for it. The expansion campaings for HoMM3 aren't really much fun though, IMO. Except for that one Shadow of Death Campaign where you run around raising Liches instead of Skeletons. That's pretty fun as a gimmick campaign, once you get to the point where you have 50+ liches and can just steamroll everything. The recent Heroes 3 LP had us into the third part of the Dragon Blood campaign, or whatever it was called the one where you have to defeat the different types of expansion dragons in each map within a set amount of time. That one was talked about as the biggest dick move ever for the series, mainly because you would need to reload to get the right spell combination in the first map to even stand a chance in the later maps. Speaking of Heroes 4, I think I remember playing it forever ago and thinking "this plays too much like Warlords, I'm not enjoying this" and then bought Heroes 5
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Nov 10, 2014 21:33
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Valgaav posted:Adobe. As in southern USA native building.  Wait what? That's a thing? You mean to tell me that my brain has been parsing it wrong ever since I started playing Heroes games? You just blew my mind and are this close to destroying my childhood.Good to know that Heroes4 doesn't have Heroes3 expansion insanity. Well, let's try and finish this first. Provided nothing screws up my plans I should post an update later today.
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Nov 11, 2014 08:34
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The Heroes 4 expansion was pretty halfassed, basically just an attempt to squeeze out a few more dollars before the inevitable bankruptcy. It introduced all of half a dozen new units and a few pretty threadbare campaigns. It's a shame, I honestly liked base 4 pretty well, but the company basically imploded before they had a chance to learn from their mistakes.
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Nov 11, 2014 10:06
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kvx687 posted:The Heroes 4 expansion was pretty halfassed, basically just an attempt to squeeze out a few more dollars before the inevitable bankruptcy. It introduced all of half a dozen new units and a few pretty threadbare campaigns. It's a shame, I honestly liked base 4 pretty well, but the company basically imploded before they had a chance to learn from their mistakes. They were still better than The Price of Loyalty, that poor thing. ..Except in the name, The Price of Loyalty's bone chillingly awesome compared to what Heroes 4 got.
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Nov 11, 2014 10:55
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Some of the new units were pretty neat, even if it took both expansions for every faction to get the one new unit. The most fun of those was nature's gargantuan. Basically a beefier titan which trades a bit lower damage for an area attack, and it shoots twice.
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Nov 11, 2014 11:21
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Some of the creature choices made no sense to me in Heroes 4. Hydras or black dragons? Why is this even a choice?
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Nov 11, 2014 11:27
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Update 15 Last time I found the entrance to the barbarians home territory and Kilburn was about to talk to the welcoming committee. Meanwhile Troyan was building a secondary army and Antoine was almost eaten by a demon. Teamwork! Day 24:  The welcoming committee storms away from Kilburn. Their armies are fairly even in strength and one has another stack of zounds of goblins. Let’s see if I can attack both this turn.  Didn’t I beat him earlier? It’s times like there I miss my archers.  The cavalry start us off good. They do a demonic 666 in damage and wipe out the wolves.  On the second turn we close in.  The cavalry open on the ogres, their retaliation kills one. I doubted whether they should attack the goblins or the ogres. Ultimately I chose the ogres since the cavalry were the only ones who could reach them this turn. In addition, the ogres would’ve done a full power hit on them on their turn.  The paladins tangle with the Cyclops, fortunately they aren’t paralyzed by the counter attack.  As expected the goblins attacked the cavalry and are almost killed on the retaliation.  I wish these guys did more damage.  The rogues finally help.  The paladins kill the Cyclops and I hope that everyone else can finish off the Ogres. Considering the excellent damage from the swordsmen, the answer would be…  Yes.  Victory is mine.  It clashes with his threads, but we’ll take it! It’s a +1 to attack. Kilburn also learned how to attack better by watching the barbarians. Level up and attack +1. He’s becoming quite formidable. With 5 attack, 8 defense, 4 spell power and 1 knowledge. He’s just a big dumb brute.   And the other guy is just in range, how convenient.  So his army isn’t quite as strong as I thought, but this guy has spell power. I can smell artifacts!  His lightning bolt seriously hurt my paladins and I discover my cavalry are blocked by bushes.  The rogues are the first of my team to attack for a change.  He cast slow on my cavalry so I dispel it. With his spell power it would've slowed them down far too long for my liking.  Have you ever noticed that the wolves wear a band around their ankle?  The Cyclops neuters my rogues. But I notice that the enemy hasn’t fled yet. I need to kill their trolls. If I can do that with my swordsmen, the pikemen and the cavalry have a small chance of killing the Cyclops before it can move.  I kill the trolls.  The pikemen love seeing a plan come together.  And the cavalry is always on time.  Victory!  Prizes and a level up with a defense +1. That necklace gives him a +4 to his spell power. I wish he could cast spells more than once. My army has been thinned pretty heavily. Time to regroup and attack. Troyan starts moving up so she can help guard the pass while Kilburn is resupplied. I want to believe I’m stronger than them now. Day 25: Everyone runs around and the enemy stays where they are. Day 26:  Time to resupply. Day 27:  This is much better.  I can see a romance subplot from a mile away. Kilburn presents his necklace to Troyan in the desert surrounded by the zounds of corpses. Romance isn't dead. Her army isn’t as strong as Kilburn, but her spell casting is much better, so she needs this necklace to make up for having a weaker army.  Meanwhile I build a pyramid just in time for a new week. Day 28:  Crodo visits the shrine to verify my strength…  Crodo buys some units for Troyan to use and heads back. Everyone else heads to the other castles. Day 29:  Lots of snow here.  A junction.  Really? That’s the name you want to go with?  I purchase another thieves guild and have another look. That’s not so bad. Time to get my first enemy castle.  Crodo gave the units for Troyan to Yog since he can run faster in the desert. Day 30:  So close, but the wall isn’t knocked down. The AI saw me coming and bought some trolls for defense. We can easily beat them…if we can knock the walls down.  You know the story.  The trolls use a strange hadoken-like throw to kill my few archers.  The shield is down start your attack!  Unfortunately it’s a one man hole and the only man near it are the swordsmen. On the other hand, they just one hit killed the Cyclops.  The 15 ogres attack and kill one. The swordsmen retaliation is a lot more.  Finally another hole in the wall and the paladins get to work. They kill the trolls in a single turn.  These guys are eager. They deal 636 in damage overkilling the ogres to a large degree.  And with that we take control of Baywatch and Kilburn levels up again. Defense +1.  A fresh batch of spells for the dumb knight and off he goes to kill some more.  The shape of the explored map reminds me of something.  Anyway, I wanted to cast view mines, but I discovered that I apparently have view towns. You can see we are now slowly penetrating the enemy territory, my next goal will be to go deeper and take the top castle. After that we'll speed up and go even further into enemy territory. Kilburn stays in the castle for now. Troyan is on her way to reinforce the position so he can leave the castle without worries of it being taken back. Day 31:  Even if orcs are bad, that's still a lot.  I added some orcs as a lightning rod for this battle. I hesitate between casting caste on the swordsmen or casting lightning bolt on the orcs.  I ultimately choose lightning bolt, 10 down 100 to go.  Using two large unit opposite each other is fun, my cavalry attack. The enemy blinds them, followed by a counter attacks and their dogs die to my cavalry.  Who needs haste.  Abracableed!  I’m happy to report operation lightning rod was a success, the  We don’t attack the orcs, but we do block them. At the cost of two cavalry, because the AI just lightning bolted them. We should be able to wipe the orcs out this turn and claim the enemies artifacts. Considering this hero has 8 attack the odds are that he has at least one. A quick bless on the cavalry and go!  The first attack almost kills halve of them. They like this feeling and want to try again.  The paladins finish the job. You know, if there is one thing that these skirmishes show is that the speed advantage of the high level knight units really works to their advantage. Having your two strongest units always go first is good.  The balance of power slowly shifts towards me.  Yes, you deserve a medal for this. That’s a +1 to morale.  That pretty sword is a +3 to attack.   “You know what? I’ve learned something today.” And with that Kilburn goes back into the castle, waiting for Troyan. Day 32:  Kilburn scouts a little, but nothing else happens. Back home new reinforcements are sent to Kilburn. Antoine is on the job! Try not to get eaten please. Day 33:  Yog actually passed Troyan and delivers some much needed  Time to tip the scales. Day 34:  That’s weird, I thought populations only doubled during "weeks of", but this is just a +5. Goons to the rescue! unpronounceable posted:I'm pretty sure it's population growth +5 on a Week of creature, and population doubles on a Month of creature. I couldn't find it in the manual, but looking it up on the internet this is indeed what happens. I can't believe I never noticed that.  Look a new castle, lightly defended and at the start of a new week.  And the walls are down in the first turn.  They do have 42 wolves.  Kilburn wants a new fur coat for his bling.  The ogres die second.  And the archers kill the trolls in a single shot. Attack +1.  We buy some quick defenses and off we go. I don't expect them to actually defend, but it will prevent the AI from hiring new units if they take it back.  Crodo is still around and helps by picking our next target. I'm going left, despite currently moving to the right. Day 35:  Troyan finally arrives.  Antoine is almost there with Kilburns reinforcements.  I suppose all those huts explain the massive amount of goblins the enemy had. Yog meanwhile moves to capture mines and guard our latest castle.  Our town is under attack!  This army has good morale.  They slowly kill off my defenses.  This hero has enough strength to withstand attacks from ogres with paper defense units.  We barely made a dent in his army. Day 36:  Kilburn, would you kindly kill him?  Yes, he would.  I even cast spells.  The cavalry charge the orcs and I realize I may have been too keen.  This is confirmed when the enemy immediately retreats. Yog takes the castle and Kilburn heads further in land.  You can see another enemy near the edge. Day 37:  I would say that the AI is out of good heroes as there is a weak knight before me.  The enemy comes to us.  Their goblins have a morale boost and cross the field in a single turn.  When the Pikeman looks into the mirror he sees the wolf. They are pretty much opposite. While the pikeman has mostly defense the wolf is all offense. These fast units attack twice per round like the crusaders, but please make sure the counter attack has already been used, because they take punches just as well as flying little girls. Because of that, they tend to die in droves.  I immediately notice the lack of offense and defense on Troyan in these battles.  The Barbarian level 4 unit. Ogres as mentioned earlier are big slabs of meat. While a bit low defensively they do have good HP (having 10HP more than the level5 cavalry) to make up for it. In addition they hit hard. Fortunately, they are ssslow. They make great garrison units and can protect archers forever.  Still an easy victory and a +1 to spell power.  Antoine joins in the festivities by scouting around a bit. He has a decent enough army in the reinforcements but he'll probably pass them on to Kilburn at some point. And with Antoine arriving on the scene I stop this update. Next time I probably finish this map and prove that I am the strongest in this land…at the moment! Darth TNT fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 13:00
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I really like the glaring cyclops sprite.THE BAR posted:Some of the creature choices made no sense to me in Heroes 4.  The worst choice would probably be the champion or the angel. The weakest level 4 creature or a much more powerful one that can fly and has access to the only resurrection spell in the game? Poil fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 13:00
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It's probably just because I rarely use my troops, focusing on the heroes like it's more of an action RPG. Which works just fine with dragons, as you can go chaos + might and cast Armageddon with impunity.
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Nov 11, 2014 13:54
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Darth TNT posted:Day 34: I'm pretty sure it's population growth +5 on a Week of creature, and population doubles on a Month of creature.
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Nov 12, 2014 02:19
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Baywatch was a town in Might & Magic 3 that was overrun by the undead. I wanted to say that it predates the show, but the game came out in '91 and the show started in '89. On the other hand, I can easily believe that Jon van Caneghem never went outside or watched any TV aside from Star Trek and thus was oblivious to its existence. Crag Hack (the second (?) barbarian in the update) is actually the M&M hero. The sprite is from the third game, but CRAG THE HACK was one of the default party members in the very first game. Even the new Might & Magic Legacy made a callback to him as a revered figure.
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Nov 12, 2014 03:00
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There were a few heroes like that. I know Sandro was one, maybe Gem as well?
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Nov 12, 2014 04:02
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unpronounceable posted:I'm pretty sure it's population growth +5 on a Week of creature, and population doubles on a Month of creature. Strangely, that's not in the manual. But looking around on the internet I can confirm this. I didn't notice the week/month part. I just see "something something creature growth increased  "Time to update my post.
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Nov 12, 2014 09:25
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I installed Windows 95 on a 386 just to be able to play this game after getting hooked by the demo. I think in the demo you could play for the first 2 weeks of a game or something, but it was so interesting and different that I had to buy it, which consumed most of the money I got that year. I think I got to the last level once, as Barbarian, but couldn't beat it, so this LP is certainly bringing back memories and saves me from having to go back and make a run through. I can't remember if it was HOMM1 or HOMM2 that didn't have a random map generator, but I think it was 2. I played a lot of HOMM1 just because the random map generator was pretty good, and was sad that 2 didn't have one since I liked the skill additions and new hero/races.
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Nov 13, 2014 01:36
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while Heroes 2 didn't have a generator I swear it had a map editor so you could make your own scenarios. Maybe that was just the Gold edition though
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Nov 13, 2014 06:13
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Aces High posted:while Heroes 2 didn't have a generator I swear it had a map editor so you could make your own scenarios. Maybe that was just the Gold edition though The basic edition definitely had a map editor, I messed with it for hours and never produced anything that didn't amount to a long hallway made of parallel mountain ranges with half the map area unused.
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Nov 13, 2014 06:35
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