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moths posted:So... feel good social justice paragraphs: Real growth or corporately mandated penance for -2 STR females? The real thing I'm looking forward to is rape references in the half-orc section in a game marketed to twelve year olds.
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Jul 4, 2014 01:14
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Rulebook Heavily posted:The real thing I'm looking forward to is rape references in the half-orc section in a game marketed to (mentally) twelve year olds.
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Jul 4, 2014 01:20
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110 pages. 71 uses of "magic" 11 uses of "magical" 185 of "spell"/"spells" 18 uses of "cast"/"casts" 0 uses of "fight"/"fights" 0 uses of "punch" 7 uses of "sword" 64 uses of "weapon"/"weapons" 12 uses of "wizard" 6 uses of "fighter" 13 uses of "cleric" 6 uses of "rogue" petrol blue fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 01:21
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petrol blue posted:They managed to put 'transsexual' alongside 'ladyboy elf' and 'bearded lady dwarf'. I don't think too much thought went into it. ehh, it's all loving with 'traditional gender norms'. I'd give 'em the benefit of the doubt on this one. if nothing else.
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Jul 4, 2014 01:41
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petrol blue posted:They managed to put 'transsexual' alongside 'ladyboy elf' and 'bearded lady dwarf'. I don't think too much thought went into it. ill give them the benefit of the doubt for attempting, if poorly re: rounding, just chopping the decimal off every number is faster than processing whether to round down or up. alternatively its tradition but thats a good reason if they need one to steal LongDarkNight posted:Fake daddy took away the Monk's cellphone. His enjoyment of Next has diminished significantly. this is what happens when you dont have proficiency with playing cards
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Jul 4, 2014 01:45
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Yeah, you're right. Regardless of motive, it's a Good Thing to have in the book, I shouldn't be checking teeth on the only horse for miles around.
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Jul 4, 2014 01:59
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Generic Octopus posted:So the question I have in my head now is: Why would anyone play a fighter? Like, really, what does it have that anyone would look at it and go "Yes, I want to play as this." the majority of new players, probably will play this boring poo poo, and then never play rpgs again
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Jul 4, 2014 02:09
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people who "play" d&d (ie make the dirt simplest class ever and tune out with a laptop out) will probably find no fault with the fighter, i mean whats the big deal anyway? if i wanted a complicated class id make a wizard
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Jul 4, 2014 02:11
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I will give the developers credit on one thing. This was probably a loving nightmare behind the scenes. Staff leaving, disastrous early reports, fighting the Grognards over every loving little thing- I think they were finally given a hard deadline, little time to meet it, and came up with some tweaking to rules that already existed. Basically this was the RPG equivalent of the fourth season of Community.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:17
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yeah, they sure fought the grognards over heaps of stuff
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Jul 4, 2014 02:20
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when i think of people with convictions and/or some sort of creative vision that they're willing to go to ground for i think of mike mearls and his merry men
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Jul 4, 2014 02:20
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That's the thing, though- they had to even over the tiniest concessions to the 4e crowd. Things like Second Wind and DoaM (if it's still anywhere in the game) would not have fixed this, but HOLY loving poo poo the flame wars.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:22
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mike mearls, furiously tapping away at a DOS word processor for that original d&d 'feel', THIS MACHINE KILLS GROGNARDS emblazoned in a blood-gravy mixture on the back
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Jul 4, 2014 02:23
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Maxwell Lord posted:That's the thing, though- they had to even over the tiniest concessions to the 4e crowd. Things like Second Wind and DoaM (if it's still anywhere in the game) would not have fixed this, but HOLY loving poo poo the flame wars. those things are just there so they can be removed to flatter the community damage on a miss, for instance, IS still in the game. wizard cantrips get it at level 6
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Jul 4, 2014 02:24
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Oh, Mearls does have a 'creative vision', it's just that it is called 3rd Edition Dungeons and Dragons. First he fought hard to turn 4e into it with the re-introduction of martial automatons and finally got a whole new edition to realise his big dream.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:25
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granted I'm fairly sure this all started when Heinsoo was forced out. In retrospect I don't think 4 would have been abandoned if he were still there, Pathfinder or no.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:26
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Littlefinger posted:Oh, Mearls does have a 'creative vision', it's just that it is called 3rd Edition Dungeons and Dragons. First he fought hard to turn 4e into it with the re-introduction of martial automatons and finally got a whole new edition to realise his big dream. more specifically it's called "the past". even 3rd edition, on its own, had some kind of driving force behind it towards standardization, customizability, etc
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Jul 4, 2014 02:28
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Littlefinger posted:Oh, Mearls does have a 'creative vision', it's just that it is called 3rd Edition Dungeons and Dragons. First he fought hard to turn 4e into it with the re-introduction of martial automatons and finally got a whole new edition to realise his big dream. But this isn't even third, in all its folly. It's the least offensive to the largest number version of "traditional" D&D rules. It's Mike Mearls' Dragon-Related Entertainment Product.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:28
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Ferrinus posted:yeah, they sure fought the grognards over heaps of stuff
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Jul 4, 2014 02:35
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petrol blue posted:Y'all seem to have missed the fact the Warlord's retarded cousin is the defender - from the maneuvers: fighter powers require both a hit (at least in some cases?) and a saving throw for them to have their effect it seems fighter powers give you two chances to miss
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Jul 4, 2014 02:39
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Ferrinus posted:when i think of people with convictions and/or some sort of creative vision that they're willing to go to ground for i think of mike mearls and his merry men
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Jul 4, 2014 02:39
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I've said this before, but I really think this version is substantially worse than 3e. 3e at least felt mutable, the way that so many things were split up into feats, and how you got a sense that you could yank things around. You could make changes to the standards for skills, or add new feats, and it would trickle into the martial characters. Here, everything feels like you can't see the seams, can't figure out how to change anything, since it's just this one solid mass. Features like that fighter's completely bullshit "jump a little further" just solidfy the standards of how the world works. Before, you could change how far a roll of 20 for jump got you, if the default was too little. Now, you also have to change this loving bullshit fighter feature, which is almost just there to really drive home exactly how (un)impressive a fighter of that level is supposed to be and exactly what kinds of adventures and characters you're meant to be dealing with. This is not a game that makes sense as having 20 levels and describing high level characters as having adventures that shake the fabric of the multiverse, and it really bothers me just how static the fictional representation is meant to be.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:39
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...I've just had a great idea for a game:game posted:Friend Computer has assigned you a very special task! Ultraviolets are so grogs. e: Oh, and good luck balancing the Hygiene Officer. petrol blue fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 02:39
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A Catastrophe posted:lol i just remembered something i love that it doesnt affect anything like saving throws and doesnt have a punishment effect either, so the victim is still free to use things that dont require attack rolls on whatever he wants
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Jul 4, 2014 02:40
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LongDarkNight posted:For anyone interested in what the other "Warlord" Fighter Archetype looks like. yeah srsly check it for most maneuvers you have to not only hit your target, but hope that they don't save well what do you think are the odds of ever actually knocking somebody prone or something when two d20 rolls each have to swing your way?
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Jul 4, 2014 02:42
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moths posted:So... feel good social justice paragraphs: Real growth or corporately mandated penance for -2 STR females? They figured worst case it'd be the only thing worth praising in the entire document.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:43
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01011001 posted:people who "play" d&d (ie make the dirt simplest class ever and tune out with a laptop out) will probably find no fault with the fighter, i mean whats the big deal anyway? if i wanted a complicated class id make a wizard no, really, fighters are a hugely popular class for first timers, and most first timers never play again to say nothing of the legion of people who 'play' and never really play, or act out or drop out, or never turn up, or all the other things 'bad players' do (often because of bad design)
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Jul 4, 2014 02:45
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A Catastrophe posted:lol i just remembered something man, two chances to miss was literally from the original ycs. how far we've come
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Jul 4, 2014 02:45
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Don't forget it has no effect on targets that already have disadvantage on the attack roll, which casters will obviously be MUCH better at applying to targets.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:46
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A Catastrophe posted:yeah srsly check it for most maneuvers it'd approach 100% if fighters were allowed to do it at-will, luckily they have to expend their per-encounter pool of dice to even try
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Jul 4, 2014 02:50
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A Catastrophe posted:no, really, fighters are a hugely popular class for first timers, and most first timers never play again yeah i was more talking about the second part, which is like 3/4 of the people i gamed with in college
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Jul 4, 2014 02:50
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Maxwell Lord posted:That's the thing, though- they had to even over the tiniest concessions to the 4e crowd. Things like Second Wind and DoaM (if it's still anywhere in the game) would not have fixed this, but HOLY loving poo poo the flame wars. people keep re-calibrating and chifting the goalposts and saying 'at least' but that's a fraudulent process in reality, this is nothing like 4e, and in no way an effort to make room for players of 4e they were working as hard as they could to ignore 4e and it's fans for the better part of 4 years occasionally, for about 5 minutes, they would sit down and write a lie in one of their colums about how 'fighters are really good now' or 'this is like 4e'. what remains of 4e isn't fought over territory, it's the very least they could get away with even the occasionally good things in the system aren't from 4e in any real sense!
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Jul 4, 2014 02:51
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5e fighters spend 4e power points to activate 4e at-wills
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Jul 4, 2014 02:51
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01011001 posted:yeah i was more talking about the second part, which is like 3/4 of the people i gamed with in college who were ardent anti-4e, and are now pro-PF, i should add
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Jul 4, 2014 02:53
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d&d 4e is much harder to pretend to play than any previous edition
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Jul 4, 2014 02:54
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I'm not saying Mearls is some kind of frustrated artist, I'm saying the entire process was almost guaranteed to produce a mediocre-at-best game. He is Jean Douminian and this is SNL 1980.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:54
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Attorney at Funk posted:it'd approach 100% if fighters were allowed to do it at-will, luckily they have to expend their per-encounter pool of dice to even try because both those dice have to fall in your favour
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Jul 4, 2014 02:55
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01011001 posted:yeah i was more talking about the second part, which is like 3/4 of the people i gamed with in college AND 3/4 OF THOSE PEOPLE WERE LIKE THAT BECAUSE OF poo poo CLASSES First game they ever play: Boring poo poo where only the wizard gets to do anything Second Game: They search a room for an hour Third Game: They try something clever but well, mister carter can't have that 9th Game: Dice out Laptop out semi-absentee player 4 lyfe
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Jul 4, 2014 02:56
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Attorney at Funk posted:d&d 4e is much harder to pretend to play than any previous edition at one point the most "experienced" one in the group was asked by the dm where his wizards spellbook was. he held up the phb quizzically and there was a moment of confusion before everyone started screaming at once
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Jul 4, 2014 02:56
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It shouldn't be too hard to rejigger 4e so that one of the at-wills is the fighter's normal attack, so if the lazy guy wants to just attack over and over you just use that power again and again. Won't be as good as someone who actually uses all the powers they have access to, but you can at least train them from that. "Hey, this might be a good opportunity to do this instead."
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Jul 4, 2014 02:59
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