20 dex or 18 str

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Imp Zone > 20 dex or 18 str

Attorney at Funk: Jun 3, 2008; ...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

Babylon Astronaut posted:

No one has ever been able to show me a rule that either rewards good roleplaying, or punishes acting out of character in D&D. (No, falling doesn't count. Your character falls.) There isn't a single part of the game that has to do with roleplaying although they sure give it lip service in the fluff and asides.

I don't know if it's tenable to claim that a roleplaying game must by definition mechanically punish or reward the players based on narrative presuppositions about their characters

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:16

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# ? May 28, 2024 11:01

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Attorney at Funk posted:

I don't know if it's tenable to claim that a roleplaying game must by definition mechanically punish or reward the players based on narrative presuppositions about their characters

everyone who ever looked at owod morality paths (or nwod morality stats for that matter) just starts hissing and spitting

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:17

Attorney at Funk: Jun 3, 2008; ...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

everyone who ever looked at owod morality paths (or nwod morality stats for that matter) just starts hissing and spitting

I was gonna bring that up, but those mechanics are dead and buried and necromancy is a sin against wisdom

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:18

Babylon Astronaut: Apr 19, 2012

Attorney at Funk posted:

I don't know if it's tenable to claim that a roleplaying game must by definition mechanically punish or reward the players based on narrative presuppositions about their characters

Then what is keeping Monopoly from being a roleplaying game if I act out the little metal dog's dialogue when he buys a house or is put into jail? I would say that D&D is a game where you play the role of a character, but if roleplaying is taken to mean acting out the character you play, there aren't any rules that support that behavior.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:24

LFK: Jan 5, 2013

Zhulik posted:

Looking over the wizard class:

Okay. Don't have to have the spell actually prepared, that's a little scary. Tell me more about this "ritual" thing!

Wow! Wizards can render anything a mundane can accomplish with a skill check completely obsolete and so much more all day with no penalties or restrictions? D&D Next, everyone! Let's see what can be done to poo poo on the rogue's day, forever.

The Basic Rules packet has no spells with the Ritual tag. D&D Next, everyone!

It only looks like that because the main version is lovely and text doesn't register as text. If you grab the Printer Friendly version you can see that there are 7 ritual spells in Basic.

Augury
Commune
Comprehend Languages
Detect Magic
Divination
Identify
Silence

For the most part they're either lol-worthy spells or just the garbage that groups handwave away anyway.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:27

01011001: Dec 26, 2012

silence is kind of a weird one on that list

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:29

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

everyone who ever looked at owod morality paths (or nwod morality stats for that matter) just starts hissing and spitting

uhh those exist completely in character. you really DO become weak minded and crazy if you fail to diablerize at all times, etc

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:29

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Babylon Astronaut posted:

Then what is keeping Monopoly from being a roleplaying game if I act out the little metal dog's dialogue when he buys a house or is put into jail? I would say that D&D is a game where you play the role of a character, but if roleplaying is taken to mean acting out the character you play, there aren't any rules that support that behavior.

this is stupid

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:29

Attorney at Funk: Jun 3, 2008; ...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

Babylon Astronaut posted:

Then what is keeping Monopoly from being a roleplaying game if I act out the little metal dog's dialogue when he buys a house or is put into jail?

the lack of ability to define your avatar's nature or intersection with the game rules

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:30

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

gamers in the house forever

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:31

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Ferrinus posted:

uhh those exist completely in character. you really DO become weak minded and crazy if you fail to diablerize at all times, etc

that's more a consequence of how weak-minded and crazy you'd have to be to NOT be diablerizing all the time to begin with, imo

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:31

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

that's more a consequence of how weak-minded and crazy you'd have to be to NOT be diablerizing all the time to begin with, imo

the system works

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:32

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

no one likes you

Project much?

Have you gone outside today?

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:34

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

it's true though

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:36

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Ferrinus posted:

it's true though

Its not true. I know you love me.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:38

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

roll with those punches

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:40

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

i wonder how many more spells are going to be in the actual-phb versus the basic rules, if these are just the ones they Had to include for the simple set

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:41

long-ass nips Diane: Dec 13, 2010; Breathe.

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

i wonder how many more spells are going to be in the actual-phb versus the basic rules, if these are just the ones they Had to include for the simple set

Isn't like a third of the page space spells? I know they released the table of contents some time ago.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:47

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Confession time: I'm surprised at myself. I'm surprised that 5e "Basic" pisses me off so much, because on the whole it's exactly what I expected it to be. It's a "stripped-down" D&D 3rd edition that's the worst of both worlds: simple enough to gently caress over non-spellcasters by giving them no interesting features or options, but with just enough rules bloat to doubly gently caress them over with an "everything not permitted is forbidden" design philosophy.

I guess it pisses me off because I expected them to throw in at least something that I didn't expect. Like, expertise dice could have made a comeback. Instead the only thing that surprised me was that the Basic fighter is actually almost just like my playtest fighter, but weaker because they nerfed the shield-block ability.

Well, that, and the fact that Mearls called the Basic book "the equivalent of the Rules Cyclopedia." There are many reasons that's not true, but at the most fundamental level, the RC is a complete game while 5e Basic doesn't have any monsters in it.

Thoughts on random stuff youse guys posted:

A Catastrophe posted:

TOTM is garbage driven by fiat and who the GM is friends with.

Player skill!

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

its really cool that for as much as people crowed about Gary's Vision in the development process they forget that chainmail exists, and was a wargame with a fantasy world supplementary text and that everything grew from there

let's rebuild the game from...let's call it second principles, guys. because the first ones would mean we have to think about math

You might be surprised at the number of OSR games out there that are based on the premise of "What if Gary/Dave did..." something they already did. The OSR is pretty religious; the quickest way to get interest in your game is to claim some new interpretation of the holy Scripture. Adventures Dark & Deep sells itself as "What if Gary had designed 2e?" Dragons at Dawn claims to be an attempt to reconstruct how Dave ran his early games. You probably already know about The Secret Fire. All of their claims to some secret revelation are bullshit.

Generic Octopus posted:

Note the bold. "Spellcasting Focus" is a wand/staff/orb/whatever. Materials aren't consumed normally (there are some which specify that the components are consumed).

So I have to ask...what is the point of listing material components for spells if you don't have to use them, and indeed never will?

Slide your fingers down the length of your silken bathrobe and into your wizard-purse. Feel the bat guano? Roll that flying mammal poo poo around in your hands. Get it under your fingernails. Lift the pouch until you can smell the sulfur. Yeah, baby. Without it, it wouldn't feel like D&D.

Solid Jake posted:

I had an idiotic conspiracy theory for a while that Mearls deliberately tanked the 4e line so he could make his dipshit vanity project into Official Real D&D, but after thinking it over decided it was ridiculous and outlandish. I mean, would a grown rear end man REALLY put his career on the line to torpedo a major corporate brand just out of nostalgia and ideology?

Now I think that, yes, that is what happened exactly.

Maxwell Lord posted:

I'm not sure it was just him. It seemed like everyone but Heinsoo thought the wizard should be the most powerful because that is how it is, which makes me think he was forced out.

ProfessorCirno posted:

I so so so so so want to know about 4e's development throughout the years, and if this was just WotC shitcanning whoever had the highest salary, or if there were actual office politics that got involved.

I don't think Mearls tanked 4e on purpose, I think he was simply given the ability to tank it on accident.

Asimo posted:

It's nerds and grognards working in close quarters, of course office politics were involved. The real question is what sort, and how loudly.

Yeah, the thing is, I think you guys are basically right, it's just that it was a situation that developed naturally rather than a convoluted, cynical plot.

We really don't know what Wizards was committing to 5e in terms of compensation and other resources. It's entirely possible that Heinsoo left of his own accord because he had the foresight to see that D&D was going to become a bare-bones project. I was talking to some guys on RPGnet who wondered aloud why Rich Baker didn't become the lead developer, and I speculated that maybe Mearls' job isn't an enviable one (for reasons besides fan complaints) and Baker knew that.

When all is said and done, the part of the Next project that is a mystery to me is how much they're paying them, what kind of resources they have to work with, and what they actually do at work all day. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if nobody on the Next team was really a full-time salaried employee of WotC, because besides the art, the level of quality and effort that went into 5e is approximately that of a couple guys making a lame retroclone to sell on DriveThruRPG.

A Catastrophe posted:

And even the weight of the rules is a product of lovely grog garbage. 5e will bloat, and bloat bad BECAUSE IT'S BADLY DESIGNED.

Y'know, this game is so loving boring and so lacking in a conceivable target audience that it wouldn't surprise me if it never gets a large enough product line to bloat nearly as much as 3e or 4e did. Granted, if DDI really is that profitable, maybe they're willing to throw good money after bad, so 4e money will sponsor a heap of lovely 5e books.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:48

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Swagger Dagger posted:

Isn't like a third of the page space spells? I know they released the table of contents some time ago.

niiiice. they're a solid 1/5 (like, exactly---22 pages of the 110) in the basic rules) so that'll pad to 1/3 of the core book with...what, druid/bard/ranger/paladin lists, more cleric and wizard lists (of course it will)

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:51

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Halloween Jack posted:

Well, that, and the fact that Mearls called the Basic book "the equivalent of the Rules Cyclopedia." There are many reasons that's not true, but at the most fundamental level, the RC is a complete game while 5e Basic doesn't have any monsters in it.

The gently caress of it is that they could have just re-released the Cyclopedia, supported it like a new product, and actually accomplished everything they were pretending they wanted to do.

There's a reason that one didn't get a prestige reprint.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 05:58

Amethyst: Mar 28, 2004; I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

will you loving shitheads stop talking about poster popularity

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:18

Amethyst: Mar 28, 2004; I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

roll with those punches

you're a stupid rear end in a top hat and I hate you

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:19

Ryuujin: Sep 26, 2007; Dragon God

LongDarkNight posted:

http://i.imgur.com/EJZCw92.png

I don't suppose you can post some Warlock stuff? I think you had said your private playtest had the warlock and sorcerer?

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:21

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

the warlock is funny because it renders the wizard flavorless

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:22

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

like, the warlock is some kind of obsessive who delves deep into cosmic secrets and finds weird loopholes in the laws of reality that allow for the casting of magic spells. the wizard, therefore, is basically an electrical engineer or something. there's a sidebar in the basic pdf which is like "there's a thing called 'the weave' and you manipulate it to do magic. HOW do you manipulate it? erm, well,"

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:24

Attorney at Funk: Jun 3, 2008; ...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

the wizard doesn't provide flavor so much as consume it. the warlock tells the wizard the wine pairings and the fighter carries the pepper mill

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:24

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Amethyst posted:

you're a stupid rear end in a top hat and I hate you

i hate you too, you literal retard, so i'm glad we're on the same page and you can go die

Ferrinus posted:

the warlock is funny because it renders the wizard flavorless

what if the wizard's flavor is "warlock with a book"

Ferrinus posted:

"there's a thing called 'the weave' and you manipulate it to do magic. HOW do you manipulate it? erm, well,"

forgotten realms canon now and forever apparently

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:26

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

i hate you too so i'm glad we're on the same page and you can go die
what if the wizard's flavor is "warlock with a book"

i'm pretty sure there are literally secret-seeking book warlocks

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:26

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Ferrinus posted:

i'm pretty sure there are literally secret-seeking book warlocks

as like, implements, or...

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:27

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

listen if warlocks actually have to know stuff instead of fumbling blindly at the idiot cosmos and hoping their hands aren't bitten off in the process, this is really messing with my dndfeel

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:28

Attorney at Funk: Jun 3, 2008; ...the person who says honestly that he despairs is closer to being cured than all those who are not regarded as despairing by themselves or others.

needing to read books doesn't correlate at all to needing to know things

if it helps just imagine the warlock as the guy everyone hates in every grad school cohort

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:29

01011001: Dec 26, 2012

Ferrinus posted:

like, the warlock is some kind of obsessive who delves deep into cosmic secrets and finds weird loopholes in the laws of reality that allow for the casting of magic spells. the wizard, therefore, is basically an electrical engineer or something. there's a sidebar in the basic pdf which is like "there's a thing called 'the weave' and you manipulate it to do magic. HOW do you manipulate it? erm, well,"

the wizard has to be the flavorless magic guy and amazing and the fighter has to be the flavorless not-magic guy and terrible. all other classes have to form rank between them. those are the rules

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:30

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Attorney at Funk posted:

needing to read books doesn't correlate at all to needing to know things

if it helps just imagine the warlock as the guy everyone hates in every grad school cohort

ok so he casts "the medium is the message is really deep when you like, think about it, man" got it. thank you

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:30

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

I feel the need to point out that ttgs are absolutely not going to become the model train industry.

Model train industry makes a loving grip of cash, man.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 06:55

Piell: Sep 3, 2006; Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer; Young Orc

Also model train people don't relentless flame each other over what kind of train they got

or maybe they do, is this a real thing that exists because if so someone link me to it because it sounds like it will be incredible

# ? Jul 5, 2014 07:02

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

ProfessorCirno posted:

I feel the need to point out that ttgs are absolutely not going to become the model train industry.

Model train industry makes a loving grip of cash, man.

Also, the model train industry has seamlessly moved to the digital world, and makes piles of cash on their digital tabletop offerings.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 07:22

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Everblight posted:

Also, the model train industry has seamlessly moved to the digital world, and makes piles of cash on their digital tabletop offerings.

a few years ago, I ran the math and found out that Train Simulator DLC accounted for 8% of the total cash value of every single thing on Steam

sadly it's probably lower now, relatively

# ? Jul 5, 2014 07:27

LongDarkNight: Oct 25, 2010; It's like watching the collapse of Western civilization in fast forward.; Oven Wrangler

Zhulik posted:

Looking over the wizard class:

Okay. Don't have to have the spell actually prepared, that's a little scary. Tell me more about this "ritual" thing!

Wow! Wizards can render anything a mundane can accomplish with a skill check completely obsolete and so much more all day with no penalties or restrictions? D&D Next, everyone! Let's see what can be done to poo poo on the rogue's day, forever.

The Basic Rules packet has no spells with the Ritual tag. D&D Next, everyone!

I think you must have searched wrong because there are quite a few in the Basic Rules.

Here's the full list from secret PHB:

Alarm, Animal Messenger, Augury, Beast Sense, Chariot of Sustarre, Commune, Commune with Nature, Comprehend Languages, Contact Other Plane, Detect Good and Evil, Detect Magic, Detect Poison and Disease, Divination, Drawmiji's Instant Summons, Feign Death, Find Familiar, Find Steed, Forbiddance, Gentle Repose, Identify, Illusory Script, Knock, Leomund's Secret Chest, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Locate Animals or Plants, Locate Creature, Locat Object, Magic Mouth, Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, Phantom Steed, Plant Growth, Purify Food and Drink, Rary's Telepathic Bond, Sending, Silence, Speak with Animals, Speak with Plants, Spiritual Weapon, Tenser's Floating Disk, Unseen Servant,

# ? Jul 5, 2014 08:06

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# ? May 28, 2024 11:01

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

i hate you too, you literal retard, so i'm glad we're on the same page and you can go die

Youve already told everyone you cant sit at a table without arguing and that your GMs dont like you.

We feel bad but stop having tantrums.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 08:18

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Imp Zone > 20 dex or 18 str

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