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Saraiguma posted:is there a good text writeup on the basics of LTN? I don't need it to do anything fancy just "when station a needs x of y material send train z to station b that has x of y material from a supply depot" An LTN network has three types of stations. 1) A depot station. Wire a constant combinator to the light on the LTN station and send it the signal Depot Station. I like to name my depots AAA-Depot so they're always on top of the station list. 2) A provider station. Say it's an iron mine, with a bunch of miners feeding iron ore to a set of chests with inserters to the train cars. Wire all the chest together and then to the light on the LTN station. 3) A requester station, which has a bunch of chests and inserters unloading from the train car. Wire these chests and a constant combinator to the light on the LTN station, and then set the constant combinator to negative 8000 iron ore. 4) Set up a train, and send it to the depot on automatic.
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Sep 4, 2020 01:11
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Taffer posted:Take a look at TSM too - they both have strengths but TSM made more sense to me and was a more natural extension from vanilla train setups, so it's what I use. TSM seems neat but can you use multipurpose trains with it? It seems that each type of resource is its own closed network with its own supply depots using that mod. Biffmotron posted:An LTN network has three types of stations. Couldn't this cause long wait times if a station doesn't have enough of a certain resource? Saraiguma fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 01:13
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Saraiguma posted:
ltn shines when you're dealing in bulk, yeah. if you're trying to use it to manage shipping 2 or 3 stacks of things around, its gonna be clunky and bursty happily, the solution to that is most excellent: make more poo poo
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Sep 4, 2020 01:38
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LTN is not great at handling small amounts, and is a complete train wreck (ha) if you try to mix deliveries of both small and large amounts of things at the same stations. There are some network things you can do to help batch up or control deliveries beyond just using the min request size, but they're complicated and error-prone.
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Sep 4, 2020 01:44
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Re: Space Exploration, I kept at it and just now an entire swarm of meteors fell directly on my Meteor Defence Installation and obliterated 28 entities in the process, including a provider chest containing 500 steel and electric furnaces 
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Sep 4, 2020 05:07
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Saraiguma posted:TSM seems neat but can you use multipurpose trains with it? It seems that each type of resource is its own closed network with its own supply depots using that mod. Trains are dedicated to a resources, yes. The advantage of this is that you can have trains loaded and ready to go the moment they're needed somewhere, instead of needing to go out and fill up first. Also if you like to make megabases, it doesn't hurt your UPS like LTN does.
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Sep 4, 2020 07:36
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Taffer posted:Trains are dedicated to a resources, yes. The advantage of this is that you can have trains loaded and ready to go the moment they're needed somewhere, instead of needing to go out and fill up first. Also if you like to make megabases, it doesn't hurt your UPS like LTN does. You can get LTN to have trains ready also by setting up the requester stations to ask for like 4 trains, but then of course you have to build a stacker at the requester station. LTN is definitely much worse on UPS, and I am currently using TSM and starting to really like it more than LTN in some ways. It's nice that I don't have to build a dedicated stacker for each station, and instead locate my supply depot (where the loaded trains wait for a station request) wherever I want, and use a single depot to supply multiple requesters if I want, and set up secondary or tertiary supply depots as backups also. The auto-refueling in TSM is also great, as I don't need to have a refueling setup on every single depot parking spot like I do in LTN.
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Sep 4, 2020 07:49
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Sweeper posted:...I can’t belt enough copper wire on a single line... It is recommended to direct-insert copper-wire from one assembly machine to another where needed, and belt the copper plates around.
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Sep 4, 2020 08:23
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Saraiguma posted:is there a good text writeup on the basics of LTN? I don't need it to do anything fancy just "when station a needs x of y material send train z to station b that has x of y material from a supply depot" I would recommend this very good post by forums user Bhodi
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Sep 4, 2020 09:47
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The Locator posted:
This is definitely my favorite feature, and one of the things that made me feel it was worth plowing through the clunky UI to use the mod. It's really convenient.
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Sep 4, 2020 10:31
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MonkeyforaHead posted:Re: Space Exploration, I kept at it and just now an entire swarm of meteors fell directly on my Meteor Defence Installation and obliterated 28 entities in the process, including a provider chest containing 500 steel and electric furnaces I think you can change settings for meteors in the mod settings somewhere. They're really annoying. The thing with space exploration is that the mod author wanted to have mechanical differentiating factors between the planets, right. For some reason varying the enemy count on them and varying the efficiency of solar power on them wasn't enough, he wanted more. So he added the meteors and he added bot attrition, both of which are factors that vary across other planets, and if they just applied to other planets, that'd be cool. Them applying to Nauvis is one of the worst parts of that mod. You can't treat nauvis the same as any other planet because you have to play the entire god damned game up until you get to rockets there! What the gently caress! At least with bot attrition if you automate bot production and insertion into the network you essentially dont' care, but meteors being ble to go smash poo poo loving sucks. gently caress
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Sep 4, 2020 12:16
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so I'm messing with LTN on the demo map and I have a simple iron plate setup made and it should work but it's just stalled at the depot, any ideas?
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Sep 4, 2020 15:00
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Phobeste posted:I think you can change settings for meteors in the mod settings somewhere. They're really annoying. and the sheer amount of work to research everything is insane. compared to normal bobs run, you will add another 300 hours just to get somewhere in SE
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Sep 4, 2020 15:07
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So what's the recommended strat for beacons? I'm trying to get a save to the point where I'll be repeatedly launching rockets, rather than quitting after the first one. Trying out beacons for the first time and the way it throws off production ratios is causing problems. I assume there's an upper limit to the usefulness of speed beacons of how fast inserters can actually work? My attempt at a blueprint to resolve my green chip shortfall: 
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Sep 4, 2020 15:10
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Eschatos posted:So what's the recommended strat for beacons? I'm trying to get a save to the point where I'll be repeatedly launching rockets, rather than quitting after the first one. Trying out beacons for the first time and the way it throws off production ratios is causing problems. I assume there's an upper limit to the usefulness of speed beacons of how fast inserters can actually work? I'm sure this is a nice, effective design at all, but god drat are beacons ugly. The new model is not any better than the old one.
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Sep 4, 2020 15:22
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ConfusedUs posted:I'm sure this is a nice, effective design at all, but god drat are beacons ugly. The new model is not any better than the old one. Two potential fixes for you: Classic Beacon (original design, upscaled to high res) Beacons But Better (less cluttered/busy design) Edit: Down The Rabbit Hole (goatse-flavoured beacon) GotLag fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 15:28
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GotLag posted:Two potential fixes for you: That second one is actually pretty nice. The sleek design actually looks like this is an end-game tech rather than some piece of poo poo thrown together. I get that "piece of poo poo thrown together" is Factorio's whole aesthetic, but the Beacons are supposed to be the tip-top of the tech tree. Would it really hurt for them to look like it?
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Sep 4, 2020 15:36
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The real magic impossible tech in factorio is assembler 1. Being able to rearrange a couple metal plates into arbitrary machined shapes with a simple circuit board controlling it? Nuts.
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Sep 4, 2020 15:45
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ikanreed posted:The real magic impossible tech in factorio is assembler 1. this is the real burner inserter erasure
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Sep 4, 2020 15:51
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Evilreaver posted:this is the real burner inserter erasure I guess I never use burner inserters because they felt like cheating.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:03
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assemblers are magic, inserters are magic, free energy conveyor belts are spooky eldritch magic
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Sep 4, 2020 16:06
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Eschatos posted:So what's the recommended strat for beacons? I'm trying to get a save to the point where I'll be repeatedly launching rockets, rather than quitting after the first one. Trying out beacons for the first time and the way it throws off production ratios is causing problems. I assume there's an upper limit to the usefulness of speed beacons of how fast inserters can actually work? Yeah, inserter speed will be a bottleneck. You also have a sort of diminishing returns on the power efficiency gain you get from adding speed beacons to prod module:d assemblers the more of them you add. Beacons that only cover a single machine are usually not a very efficient use of power and modules, if you're at a point where that matters, and especially early on you want to favor designs where beacons cover more machines. All this depends on the machine though; rocket silos and the multi-megawatt buildings mods like to add are worth beaconing on their lonesome. Personally I've always been a fan of having lines of assemblers with beacons between and possibly to the sides. It's easy to build, understand and expand as well as generally both space, power and module efficient.   (excuse the compression artifacts, I am lazy) Those aren't optimal or anything, you can come up with better designs, they're just stuff I've built. Note that running belts directly towards the machine instead of along the side as you usually do makes it much easier to fit beacons on all sides of the assembler. The belts just go underneath the beacon. I generally think this is a little too fiddly to build and takes a little too much space, but if you want max beacons then it's an option.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:10
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ikanreed posted:The real magic impossible tech in factorio is assembler 1. The answer is nano machines. They need iron for their structure, and organics from coal, plus trace elements. They handle all the difficult backend stuff.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:15
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Clark Nova posted:assemblers are magic, inserters are magic, free energy conveyor belts are spooky eldritch magic Belts don't concern me so much. One trivial "driver" node that consumes power and they are pretty much the same as real world belts.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:16
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Eschatos posted:So what's the recommended strat for beacons? I'm trying to get a save to the point where I'll be repeatedly launching rockets, rather than quitting after the first one. Trying out beacons for the first time and the way it throws off production ratios is causing problems. I assume there's an upper limit to the usefulness of speed beacons of how fast inserters can actually work? This is a pretty good start for beaconed green circuts, you've got the right idea but you're probably wasting some of the speed beacons that aren't hitting multiple assemblers. The key to beacons and modules is to first focus on your most expensive consumers. Yes you'll need more green circuits, but green circuits are cheep compared to blue circuits etc. Productivity modules give a flat bonus that is equivalent to the value of the component produced, each free rocket part or blue circut is worth astronomically more than each green that goes into it. Rocket Silo, Labs, and blue circuts are your first major benefit of beacons, followed by high end science packs and green circuits. Green circuits are still pretty high up on the priority list so its not like you're throwing away resources as if you were beaconing steel or bricks.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:21
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Personally I like to run stuff directly into my assemblers after doing a few calculations for how many assemblers I need, then mess with trying to move everything into a good spot. For example, my 100 SPM setup looks like this:
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Sep 4, 2020 16:22
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M_Gargantua posted:The key to beacons and modules is to first focus on your most expensive consumers. Yes you'll need more green circuits, but green circuits are cheep compared to blue circuits etc. Productivity modules give a flat bonus that is equivalent to the value of the component produced, each free rocket part or blue circut is worth astronomically more than each green that goes into it. Rocket Silo, Labs, and blue circuts are your first major benefit of beacons, followed by high end science packs and green circuits. Green circuits are still pretty high up on the priority list so its not like you're throwing away resources as if you were beaconing steel or bricks. Oh yeah, I kinda took this for granted but this is very important. I've had friends who started out beaconing with their electric furnace setups, figuring that had to be an efficient place to start since everything uses plates! Beginning at the earliest part of the production chain is indeed the opposite of what you should do: the effect of a production module -- and therefore also the effect of adding speed beacons to it -- is basically proportional to how much total raw resource goes into an assembler each second. A single blue circuit or rocket control unit assembler indirectly consumes much more ore per second than a furnace does directly, so modules on the assembler are equally much more effective. Start at your most expensive non-idling end-of-chain consumers and then work your way down.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:34
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Vasudus posted:I'm in the process now of refactoring everything. Much like every playthrough of a factory game, I had thought I was being logical with my layout and belt placements. Also like every playthrough of a factory game, I was wrong. At least I've got all the science researched and I'm ready to start working on the rocket. Afterwards I'm not quite going for a 1k/science setup, maybe 200/min. When I first built my Spidertron and took it out for a spin, I wrecked absolute face with rockets and lasers, cleared my perimeter, and when I came back to my base and wanted to put the four personal laser defences back into my own power armor, I noticed I hadn't even put them in the Spidertron's grid. I was in a bit of disbelief and repeated my quick excursion, and - sure enough - laser defences from your power armor still work when you're in the Spidertron. Since I have six laser defences, five exoskeletons, four Mk.2 batteries and 3 Mk.2 roboports in addition to a fusion reactor in my power armor in the default walking-around setup, I just crammed three exoskeletons, a fusion reactor, and five Mk.2 shields into my Spidertron and went on a murdering spree with absolute impunity. Surely, this cannot be intentional? Because...it's broken as all hell. Also, what settings are you playing on, because I I've stopped periodically clearing nests since it's completely pointless. Within 5-10 minutes, there are a couple of new biter outposts within my pollution perimeter, and within another 10-20 or so, there are enough to send continuous attacks my way. And I didn't change any of the world generation settings outside of making resource fields have higher yield.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:39
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Spidertron works the same way as any other vehicle. Your Personal defenses also work in cars and tanks.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:45
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Phobeste posted:I think you can change settings for meteors in the mod settings somewhere. They're really annoying. Well I can change the upper limit so that meteors drop in random intervals of between 1 minute and [x], so I guess I'll just crank that up to several hours and cross my fingers. Balsa posted:and the sheer amount of work to research everything is insane. compared to normal bobs run, you will add another 300 hours just to get somewhere in SE Research hasn't been too bad but I'm still working on getting off of Nauvis. Those new science packs look like a goddamn handful and a half, though. What is it with this mod and so many constructions requiring 5+ items? The rocket science packs need 7! I did have my "oh wow" moment when I launched the first modded satellite rocket and got the full overview of the planet (which is much larger and has weird snow and purple biomes now), and the moon (which is 97% water for some reason). I can mostly deal with the complications added by the multiple motors, sand, glass, and etc. I think I actually rather like how the revamped beacons work; requires a different kind of strategic positioning and needs a lot less power to be run to the beacons themselves. The new biomes and planet layout are nifty, the prospect of space station builds is neat, having multiple maps to go to on one save is grand. But the meteors suck poo poo, the overcomplication of formerly simple assembly lines is a bugbear (why does concrete need IRON STICKS?!), the new constructions pretty much all being 5x5 and larger is really taking the piss (not even worth it to use industrial furnaces because of the size footprint), and one look at the requirements for launching a single cargo pod to attempt the next step of this is already giving me a headache. On the whole I'm getting Galacticraft vibes from this, and not in a good way. It has made me appreciate just what a fine line of complexity the vanilla game manages to balance, though. If I could just get the tweak this makes to beacon operation as a standalone thing, I think I'd just go with that and chuck the rest of the whole ordeal.
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Sep 4, 2020 17:01
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Saraiguma posted:so I'm messing with LTN on the demo map and I have a simple iron plate setup made and it should work but it's just stalled at the depot, any ideas? From your screenshot I have no idea what you have tried to do here. With LTN your trains should have no circuit conditions at all. You give them an initial order to go park at a "Depot" and put them on automatic. They go to the depot and LTN issues all of their instructions from there as needed. All the magic with LTN happens at the stations and that's where everything gets configured and set up. Edit: Or are those orders on the train you are showing the ones that were issued by LTN?
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Sep 4, 2020 17:08
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Duzzy Funlop posted:When I first built my Spidertron and took it out for a spin, I wrecked absolute face with rockets and lasers, cleared my perimeter, and when I came back to my base and wanted to put the four personal laser defences back into my own power armor, I noticed I hadn't even put them in the Spidertron's grid. I have expansions turned off, but have the other settings turned up pretty high. So I don't have to worry about them encroaching on me too much, but I'm punished for expanding/polluting too quickly without the military might to back it up.
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Sep 4, 2020 17:16
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The Locator posted:From your screenshot I have no idea what you have tried to do here. That's what LTN autogenerates when I send the train to the depot,  is the constant combinator on the receiver and  is the pickup and I'm not sure what I've done wrong. Everything is properly signalled and the depot turns blue when there's no orders but when there are orders everything turns yellow (good) then never progresses (bad)
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Sep 4, 2020 17:22
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Your LTN inputs and the wiring reading the state of the station are on two separate circuits. Try using the same wiring color to input on both stations and see if that fixes it.
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Sep 4, 2020 17:27
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Buff Hardback posted:Your LTN inputs and the wiring reading the state of the station are on two separate circuits. I tried that and it didn't seem to change anything
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Sep 4, 2020 18:00
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Just to confirm, you also set the depot as a depot using the LTN Depot signal, right?
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Sep 4, 2020 18:05
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Buff Hardback posted:Just to confirm, you also set the depot as a depot using the LTN Depot signal, right? yep
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Sep 4, 2020 18:06
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want to throw that version of the save somewhere so i can take a look?
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Sep 4, 2020 18:08
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M_Gargantua posted:Spidertron works the same way as any other vehicle. Your Personal defenses also work in cars and tanks. Then I guess I've either been too dense to notice this or not played for too long, drat. Probably both.
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Sep 4, 2020 18:14
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Buff Hardback posted:want to throw that version of the save somewhere so i can take a look? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BiukYBFGOEMpDCj-dkI8KWH95x0rf71p/view?usp=sharing
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Sep 4, 2020 18:20
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