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Cyrano4747 posted:That's extremely fail. well they tried that first
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Oct 13, 2015 18:52
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drat, I need to brush up on my Irish history. Congrats on not becoming a failed state I guess!
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Oct 13, 2015 19:16
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Forums Terrorist posted:As an Irish person, "oh no terrorist government" arguments don't make as much of an impact tbh You're missing the point here. Since Hamas won the election back in '06 or so it hasn't allowed another one. The fact that it's also a terrorist organization is a secondary issue.
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Oct 13, 2015 19:51
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A good Discovery Channel vid on the Mi-24 - Following US troops in the 90s training against a captured Hind 
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Oct 13, 2015 21:45
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Man, I remember Wings. That was like, an integral part of my childhood.
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Oct 13, 2015 22:14
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British aviator squares off against Russian land-based force: https://youtu.be/GKm7NloL8bA
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Oct 13, 2015 22:23
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Akion posted:Man, I remember Wings. That was like, an integral part of my childhood. When they moved it off the vanilla Discovery channel in 1999, that was the beginning of the end of the Discovery Channel. Excuse me, but I'm off to watch some The Secret Life of Machines... :'(
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Oct 13, 2015 22:29
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Akion posted:Man, I remember Wings. That was like, an integral part of my childhood. Word. That show and 90s era history and discovery channel are a big part of why I am the way I am.
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Oct 13, 2015 22:53
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drat, I forgot the showed dead bodies in some of these. Surprised my parents let me watch this.
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Oct 13, 2015 22:59
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DrAlexanderTobacco posted:A good Discovery Channel vid on the Mi-24 - Following US troops in the 90s training against a captured Hind gently caress, JRTC used to have Hinds for OPFOR?!
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Oct 13, 2015 23:18
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Some exercises stateside still fly hinds. I've seen them plenty, though the one we'd use most often had the weaponry removed and was legally a regular civilian helicopter. Pretty funny hearing "rockets and guns" blaring over exercise Guard while it screams by a formation of friendly helicopters.
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Oct 13, 2015 23:24
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Chewbacca Defense posted:gently caress, JRTC used to have Hinds for OPFOR?! So did the Navy. And the AF actually flew MiGs before F-15s and F-16s took over the Aggressor mission. Now it's just cheaper to use Blackhawks painted like Hinds, and F-5s/T-38s/F-16s in Russian colors. Edit: F-5s are smokey bitches when they cut to milpower.
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Oct 14, 2015 00:15
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Godholio posted:So did the Navy. And the AF actually flew MiGs before F-15s and F-16s took over the Aggressor mission. Now it's just cheaper to use Blackhawks painted like Hinds, and F-5s/T-38s/F-16s in Russian colors. Were there ever enough MiGs to really be replaced by F-15s and F-16s? My impression of Red Eagles was that while a lot of pilots were exposed to the real thing for a little while, they learned most of their poo poo from F-5s and T-38s using Russian style tactics.
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Oct 14, 2015 02:12
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I didn't actually mean there was a 1:1 ratio. Back in the day the USAF had at least four aggressor squadrons plus the Constant Peg aircraft, rather than the two understrength squadrons of today. The Navy had two squadrons of Kfirs though. Those were replaced by early Hornets, which have since been replaced by F-16s by also less than 1:1. Supposedly there are still a few Kfirs around, but I haven't seen one.
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Oct 14, 2015 03:07
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DrAlexanderTobacco posted:A good Discovery Channel vid on the Mi-24 - Following US troops in the 90s training against a captured Hind
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Oct 14, 2015 03:26
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To arm Syrian rebels, or not to arm? That was the question.
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Oct 14, 2015 04:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGm00TdqirY ~20 min video that is a pretty good overview of the MH17 downing and the evidence into it.
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Oct 14, 2015 04:06
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Alaan posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGm00TdqirY Russian "rebuttal" in which they set off a SAM next to an IL-86 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DmraSOdTYk ...and the result looks identical to to the MH17 wreckage edit: numbers ought ten fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 04:12
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Alaan posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGm00TdqirY They say they excluded the possibility that MH17 had been struck by an air-to-air missile. Anyone know how you'd differentiate air-to-ground and air-to-air missile damage? Also, aircraft accident investigation teams are absolute wizards. So impressed with what a good job they can do with a heap of wreckage. e: I guess they were able to determine the exact kind of warhead involved. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 04:41
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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  The expression on that guy's face says it all.ought ten posted:Russian "rebuttal" in which they set off a SAM next to an IL-86 
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Oct 14, 2015 05:33
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Godholio posted:Supposedly there are still a few Kfirs around, but I haven't seen one. Nothing military to my knowledge, but ATAC has a few, along with a buttload of Hunters and (I think) a couple L-39s. There's also a company (I think) that was flying A-4s, but I'm not sure if that whole thing ever panned out.
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Oct 14, 2015 05:36
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PittTheElder posted:e: I guess they were able to determine the exact kind of warhead involved.
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Oct 14, 2015 05:37
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iyaayas01 posted:Nothing military to my knowledge, but ATAC has a few, along with a buttload of Hunters and (I think) a couple L-39s. There's also a company (I think) that was flying A-4s, but I'm not sure if that whole thing ever panned out. I think I've seen photos of some A-4s with civilian registrations used by defense contractors for testing equipment.
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Oct 14, 2015 05:41
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AceRimmer posted:Yeah, is the Buk warhead significantly larger than an air-to-air warhead would be? More than double the size of an AA-12 warhead based on some very quick Wikipedia research. And the Buk is one of the smaller ones. Russki missiles also strike from the top down and use fragmentary/penetrator proximity fused warheads to insta-kill targets, whereas AAMs come from behind and below, use HE warheads, and barring a lucky shot on a fuel tank or ordnance generally only cripple large aircraft engines and control surfaces enough that gravity does the messy part.
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Oct 14, 2015 06:02
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Godholio posted:Supposedly there are still a few Kfirs around, but I haven't seen one. ATAC operates some out of Point Mugu, along with their Hawker Hunters. They show up in Fallon every now and then.
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Oct 14, 2015 07:29
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Ok, that would explain the stuff I was reading.
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Oct 14, 2015 08:07
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AceRimmer posted:Yeah, this is some pretty weak "evidence". Any differences are pretty easily accounted for by MH17 not being...you know...stationary on the ground. I've seen people argue that because the damage is on the left side of the plane, the missile can't possibly have come from the separatists. There is a bunch of people out there who genuinely believe the only media in the world that isn't lying constantly to them is Russia Today.
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Oct 14, 2015 08:31
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Most people believe what they want and fit evidence to support those views.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:51
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Cyrano4747 posted:Most people believe what they want and fit evidence to support those views. A staggering number of those people are eyewitnesses in legal proceedings.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:08
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Cyrano4747 posted:Word. That show and 90s era history and discovery channel are a big part of why I am the way I am. Same here, in my case it was a mix of Extreme Machines and the Battlefield documentary series. Even if I didn't capitalize on that in the same way perhaps.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:42
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PittTheElder posted:They say they excluded the possibility that MH17 had been struck by an air-to-air missile. Anyone know how you'd differentiate air-to-ground and air-to-air missile damage? Also, aircraft accident investigation teams are absolute wizards. So impressed with what a good job they can do with a heap of wreckage. Yeah, the fragments were distinctive. Also our very own Brown Moses runs Bellingcat, which is so loaded with evidence that the separatists fired a Buk at it that he's currently very active in the journalism circuit and I believe has been involved in the Dutch investigation as well. The "air-to-air" thing was a lovely Photoshop of a satellite image of a Flanker shooting at the airliner, which a few weirdo who really get into Russian propaganda believed.
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Oct 14, 2015 21:03
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He's a Blogger.
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Oct 14, 2015 21:20
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chitoryu12 posted:The "air-to-air" thing was a lovely Photoshop of a satellite image of a Flanker shooting at the airliner, which a few weirdo who really get into Russian propaganda believed. It wasn't even a Flanker, it was a lovely photoshopped SU-25 IIRC. A magical Frogfoot somehow flying 10,000 feet above its service ceiling 
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Oct 14, 2015 21:36
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:It wasn't even a Flanker, it was a lovely photoshopped SU-25 IIRC. Russia planes stronk!
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Oct 14, 2015 21:39
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right arm posted:He's a Blogger. He's got a bit more credibility than the average blogger. Anyway, so are most "journalists" these days. V That's your entire point? Ok, then. Godholio fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 21:51
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He's still a Blogger, though.
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Oct 14, 2015 21:53
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:It wasn't even a Flanker, it was a lovely photoshopped SU-25 IIRC. It was supposed to be an Su-25, but the picture very much showed a Flanker.
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Oct 14, 2015 21:54
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Brown Moses is pretty well known among journalists for his coverage of MH-17 and the war in Ukraine in general. Pro-Russian sources like to tout the "He's just an Internet guy and therefore wrong about everything" thing because he doesn't agree with them, but he has a ton of verifiable evidence that gets used in serious investigations. He's been virtually constantly speaking at meetings and talking to European politicians recently. And he's hated by Graham Phillips, whose brain doesn't work right.
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Oct 14, 2015 23:13
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BM gets props from cool guy bad rear end ex marine CJ Chivers too.
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Oct 14, 2015 23:20
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priznat posted:BM gets props from cool guy bad rear end ex marine CJ Chivers too. Obligatory if you haven't read The Gun by Chivers go do so right now.
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Oct 14, 2015 23:23
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