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MeatwadIsGod posted:The branch of economists that still try to get taken seriously as a kind of mathematics is truly I took a macroeconomics class in college, as did way too many people who went to a place that advertises itself as a "liberal arts school." The book was written by former Fed chair Ben Bernanke.
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Aug 5, 2016 15:35
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inducing. They're so in love with the theories of how markets and rational actors work that they can't really deal with how they work in practice. It seems like the only economists worth a drat are the hardcore empirical ones like Piketty or the ones who utterly destroy the notion of rational actors by studying cognitive bias and the factors that are actually responsible for making decisions like Aielly. The rest is basically pseudoscience dedicated to jerking off capitalists.
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cheerfullydrab posted:When I first heard about Hobby Lobby (never seen one in the wild) I wondered how that could be a thing when A.C. Moore exists and is amazing and destroys its competitors. Hobby Lobby pays incredibly well for full time retail work. They close early and aren't open sunday. If you can deal with the owner's noxious personal beliefs it's a pretty decent job
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Aug 5, 2016 15:38
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Moving away from economic theory and back toward economic dreary - My cousin works at a K-Mart and he told me that over the weekend none of his management staff showed up. Then, when everyone showed up Monday morning, the store was locked up and empty with a sign in the window that pretty much said "HR will be in contact." They just straight up ghosted all the low-rung employees.
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Aug 5, 2016 15:39
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I wonder if the KMart at Astor Place in Manhattan is closing. I doubt it, that will probably be one of the last ones to shut down based on its location. Nonetheless, I should look it over and see if there are any good deals.
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Aug 5, 2016 15:42
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Krispy Kareem posted:Lower costs for businesses are definitely a factor. But a huge factor are predictable costs. With a pension you have no idea how much money a retired employee is going to cost you. But you can budget 3% matches for every 401k very easily (and get a tax break). You actually have an excellent idea what a DB plan is going to cost you as an employer, it just requires a ton of meticulous actuarial work compared to "you get what you get". The ultimate reason for the shift to DC is that it shifts any sort of risk and obligation to make up a shortfall to an employee. Under DB if the company underfunded the plan they were legally obligated to make up that difference, there's very strict rules saying you can't touch those funds and regulations guaranteeing a certain level of funding. DC is like the wild west, you can give as little as you want. And even if you're at the level where you're okay accepting that then you can then go and unpack the Pandora's box of you being put into a actively managed fund that is based around your benefits provider's investment portfolio instead of an index fund that studies have shown often perform better than these managed funds. You're being charged fees to have overseen by some "expert" that's job is to leverage the company's own investments.
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Aug 5, 2016 15:56
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bongwizzard posted:Sure, but you are still a pathetic gently caress undeserving of sympathy if you don't try. Without the desire to improve your lot, why bother even living? this isn't counter to anything i said
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Aug 5, 2016 16:06
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Y-Hat posted:I highlighted that last sentence because you're clearly not alone in thinking that. Some people might say that comparing economics to astrology is a bit much, but I'd say they're both equally terrible at predicting things. Yeah, I was an econ major in college for a while, and switched in 2009. I was actually up for an internship at morgan stanley in 2008, months before the collapse. But lost out to another econ student who had taken Macro 201, which I had scheduled for the summer. That internship was working under a trader who was trading this 'weird new instrument' called a derivative.
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Aug 5, 2016 16:13
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Cowman posted:and what the hell kind of mechanic gets paid $120k a year? Aircraft, diesel for generators/military contracted trucks, certain sea faring vessels, turbines or a senior position at a high volume dealership. Mechanics who can keep their nose clean and get certified and/or security clearances make incredible money
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Aug 5, 2016 16:13
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To economics chat: Yeah pretty much all of economics is bullshit but their math is sound only to the extent that you can trust a science based entirely on using statistics and hoping someone isn't cherry picking your data or biasing your samples somehow. I'm taking a macroeconomic class right now and really, it doesn't predict poo poo worth a drat. It's a Garbage in Garbage out system. but back to bad companies, if you read any of my previous posts, check out what pepsi did a year or two ago with their new automated HR systems.
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Aug 5, 2016 16:16
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red19fire posted:That internship was working under a trader who was trading this 'weird new instrument' called a derivative.
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Aug 5, 2016 16:18
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1500quidporsche posted:You actually have an excellent idea what a DB plan is going to cost you as an employer, it just requires a ton of meticulous actuarial work compared to "you get what you get". Oh sure. And companies, especially old ones with large pension plans want nothing more than to find some way to monetize all that sitting cash or at least limit their future contributions. My mom spent 30 years at IBM and went through several efforts to shortchange or modify legacy pension retirements. I'm not saying DC is better. It can be, but that depends on the employee. I had a pension plan at AT&T that was mostly worthless unless I worked there for 30 years (when I left after a decade, it would have only paid out $90 a month when I turned 65). But because I had a 401k it didn't matter and I got to leave a terrible company when I wanted to. A lot of the old timers there didn't have that option. They were so married to that pension plan that they just hopped from department to department, desperately trying to make it retirement age because that was the only way they could retire comfortably. It sucks that there aren't more incentives for companies to offer DC. My current job doesn't match and the fund is probably the lamest one they could find. But at least I can still take that somewhere else when I leave and I don't have to worry about whether my K-mart pension is going to be there 20 years from now. it's not
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Aug 5, 2016 16:22
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Booblord Zagats posted:Aircraft, diesel for generators/military contracted trucks, certain sea faring vessels, turbines or a senior position at a high volume dealership. he said he works on cars Zahi posted:Honestly why don't the people who work in retail hell just go get trade degrees? You don't need to spend tons of money getting an MBA in an insanely competitive field making what 50k a year? I make about 120k working on cars, nothing special, and my trade degree was fully paid for by my company since everyone is so strapped for skilled labor right now in the trades. Skilled meaning "not a total retard and able to listen".
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Aug 5, 2016 16:36
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bongwizzard posted:Sure, but you are still a pathetic gently caress undeserving of sympathy if you don't try. Without the desire to improve your lot, why bother even living? you're completely right, that's why nobody said you shouldn't try except this loving moron here: bongwizzard posted:Lol, sure, everything is random chance, no point in trying. Rockman Reserve has a new favorite as of 16:56 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 16:40
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Rufus T. Turnbuckle posted:Moving away from economic theory and back toward economic dreary - I feel like if he took it upon himself to learn how to budget money his widely diversified stock portfolio and collection of mutual funds would be the answer to this issue 
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Aug 5, 2016 16:49
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but letting all the hard working disadvantaged people suffer for the sake of sticking it to lazy people is totally worth it guys
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Aug 5, 2016 16:50
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In the end you will be eaten.
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Aug 5, 2016 17:04
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The hard working disadvantaged Walmart employee is this generation's noble savage.
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Aug 5, 2016 17:06
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1500quidporsche posted:The hard working disadvantaged Walmart employee is this generation's noble savage. haha you must be a colossal dick head
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Aug 5, 2016 17:09
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face it: any success you have is due to the fact that you are living in a society full of all kinds of people doing all kinds of poo poo. society would not function without all of these people you have so much derision for showing up and doing their jobs. since everything you have achieved in life is enabled by society you SHOULD feel obliged to mitigate the bullshit the people on the lower rungs of society have to go through. trying to blame those at the bottom for their situation is pointless, as there are always going to be people at the bottom for a multitude of reasons. the only thing you are doing is making yourself look like rear end in a top hat
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Aug 5, 2016 17:15
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1500quidporsche posted:The hard working disadvantaged Walmart employee is this generation's noble savage. How hard was your dick when u wrote that
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Aug 5, 2016 18:30
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Rufus T. Turnbuckle posted:Moving away from economic theory and back toward economic dreary - Phase 1 rollout looking good
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Aug 5, 2016 18:35
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radiatinglines posted:haha you must be a colossal dick head cool and good posted:How hard was your dick when u wrote that I was merely making a point that people go on and on about how noble the struggle of the lowly Walmart worker is without doing anything about it. 
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Aug 5, 2016 18:36
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Please shop at Target and pay 15-25% more for the same Bangladeshi crap
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Aug 5, 2016 18:38
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1500quidporsche posted:I was merely making a point that people go on and on about how noble the struggle of the lowly Walmart worker is without doing anything about it. seems like a lazy excuse not to give a poo poo to me but whatever helps you sleep at night pal
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Aug 5, 2016 18:45
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Cowman posted:he said he works on cars Yeah, the only way he's making that king of money wrenching on cars is if he's working flat-rate in an extremely high-wage area and somehow bills 80hours a week, or he owns his own shop with a bunch of guys under him. I had three techs and a service writer working for me and I probably cleared 100K before taxes in 1999, but the hours were unreal and the stress was worse. The guys I know who do very well nowadays usually put in 40 hours at a good shop and do tax-free side jobs at home nights and weekends. The general economic fuckery and decline of unions hurt auto techs like everybody else; the prevailing union wage for journeyman dealership mechanics in 1991 in the S.F. Bay Area was about $28hr before the dealerships pretty much broke the union, now it's around $38-40/hr and most other consumer prices have at least doubled, or worse(housinglol)
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Aug 5, 2016 18:56
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Y-Hat posted:I highlighted that last sentence because you're clearly not alone in thinking that. Some people might say that comparing economics to astrology is a bit much, but I'd say they're both equally terrible at predicting things. i took a macro class as an elective once and ended up dropping it because it was so many steps abstracted it was p much completely different and inapplicable to reality i had a hard time making sense of it all also my teacher was bad
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Aug 5, 2016 19:04
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goastse
Somebody has a new favorite as of 19:19 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 19:07
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you're right shaquin, it truly is the dismal science.
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Aug 5, 2016 19:17
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the overwatch logo kind of looks like goatse its got the lil gold ring and big o
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Aug 5, 2016 19:18
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a crisp., minimalist reimagining of the 'goatse' classic
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Aug 5, 2016 19:19
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Cowman posted:he said he works on cars Which is covered by high volume dealership
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Aug 5, 2016 19:19
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Fat Shat Sings posted:"It's the governments fault and people working in literal poverty just aren't investing in the stock market because they are lazy" That's not at all what I said, but you do you. Fat Shat Sings posted:"It's the governments fault and people working in literal poverty just aren't investing in the stock market because they are lazy" Again, that's not what I said. Fat Shat Sings posted:You didn't bootstraps your way to whatever level of income you have, it was mostly luck based. Not everyone is as lucky as you, or me. I'm just not going and telling people working in literal poverty that the real problem with their company paying them no money is that they are too lazy to invest. Again, you're putting a lot of words in my mouth, and you're making a lot of assumptions about me based on no information. You're trying to build me into a strawman, and that's just weak and inaccurate. My primary point, as I explained previously, was that the roadblocks against low-income workers from investing aren't the big bad capitalists holding them down, Bernie Sanders' and reddit's rhetoric notwithstanding. The biggest roadblocks are a lack of education and lack of access to investment vehicles, as well as a great deal of public policy that has hamstrung the small investor and the individual worker. I've worked retail (at Wal~Mart and Meijer, among others), I've worked manufacturing at a ductile casting foundry. I've loaded trucks and planes at UPS and FedEx. And after I had worked my way to a degree, I was a Section 8 caseworker, then an analyst for state housing authority before I went into business analysis. I don't just make this poo poo up, and it's not part of some greater brainwashing system. I've seen it and experienced it first hand, and I've studied it academically in university. Again and again, the low-income people I worked with and for consistently displayed several qualities: A lack of knowledge, a lack of access (or lack of knowledge on how to access), and a reliance on government to provide support. There's also a prevailing sentiment of hopelessness, that's not at all helped by your rhetoric that people are just hosed, game over, end of sentence. That's the failure of our education system, a failure of our governments, and a failure of our society. Mr. 47 has a new favorite as of 19:33 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 19:20
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Aug 5, 2016 19:21
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Nonsense posted:Please shop at Target and pay 15-25% more for the same Bangladeshi crap Targets venture in Canada was really funny to experience.
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Aug 5, 2016 19:21
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nigga crab pollock posted:also my teacher was bad it was prolly this, macroecon is actually pretty interesting. subjective opinion though I guess in the first lecture my professor said 'look many economists are dumbasses who take math stuff and try to apply it to reality and marx was right when he said most of them are just cheerleaders for capitalism' He was also super big on game theory and non-rational actor stuff. though I will say when you openly admit you only took 1 Macro elective and then dropped it because it made no sense that's not really any kind of evidence that Macroecon sucks, just that you didn't get it (or that your prof sucked). A loooot of the stuff for beginning Macro *is* abstracted but mostly only because they're not trying to dump poo poo tons of calculus and theory on you in an elective for people who just want to know what the hell the Fed is. Moridin920 has a new favorite as of 19:31 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 19:27
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I hated my macro professor because he was this old irish white dude who always complained that he doesnt understand why poor people are lazy, since he grew up with an alcoholic father and still became a success. Like, dude, you want a trophy for having an alcoholic dad? You're irish and you were raised in the 60s. Of course you had an alcoholic dad. Everybody did. It was the style at the time.
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Aug 5, 2016 20:00
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Mr. 47 posted:My primary point, as I explained previously, was that the roadblocks against low-income workers from investing aren't the big bad capitalists holding them down, Bernie Sanders' and reddit's rhetoric notwithstanding. The biggest roadblocks are a lack of education and lack of access to investment vehicles, as well as a great deal of public policy that has hamstrung the small investor and the individual worker. I was going to do a line by line rebuttal but I think the thing you should take away from this is that you could replace "Low-Income" people in your post with "Black People" and you sound like a racist victim blaming people for their own circumstances. It's equally as stupid. Like I said be glad you live in a system that allows you the freedom to intuit your terrible opinions. If you studied them academically that makes you a double idiot for doubling down on your idiot opinions. Adding any kind of anecdotal evidence to why your opinions should be listened to is just going "Hey guys, in spite all of this I'm still stupid" Using my own intuition however you keep saying that government is the problem, regulation is the problem, Bernie Sander's is bad blahblahblah. You are some kind of right wing idiot who has a fortunate enough life you can sit around and come up with dumb ideas like this to try and explain why you are different than the filthy poors.
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Aug 5, 2016 20:04
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the thing i've run into is when you tell people they won the life lottery or whatever they assume you're saying they didn't work hard to get where they are. a lot of us worked hard to get where we are. but there are people that worked a lot harder than you ever will and are stuck working three lovely jobs to make ends meet because they were born into poverty or some illness befell them or their family or something else completely outside their control. my parents both grew up super poor and my dad lived in some of the worst projects in boston growing up and he'd be the first to tell you if he wasn't white (and didn't grow up when a college degree guaranteed you a sick job for life) he wouldn't be where he is now and thus none of his kids woulda been where they are now. just as an example when my dad was college aged northeastern cost 2k a year (he didn't go there he went to one that cost what a single class would cost you nowadays at even a state school). it costs 44k now. Groovelord Neato has a new favorite as of 20:12 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 20:08
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Mr. 47 posted:Again and again, the low-income people I worked with and for consistently displayed several qualities: A lack of knowledge, a lack of access (or lack of knowledge on how to access), and a reliance on government to provide support. There's also a prevailing sentiment of hopelessness, that's not at all helped by your rhetoric that people are just hosed, game over, end of sentence. That's the failure of our education system, a failure of our governments, and a failure of our society. I think you're making some good points, however I will say that what investment vehicle is available for a poor person considering the cheapest brokerage I can find still wants like a $10k minimum deposit? Like okay you're right, what are poor people supposed to do about it though? Dude most people don't even have a few hundred dollars in savings because they're barely getting by month to month. Realistically what would a few hundred dollars trickling into a retirement account even do? Except RobinHood now I guess but that's barely a year old and still not really good for 'investing' if you don't know what you're doing. Also I feel like it's unfair to blame it entirely on gov't and not at all on capital, considering a) capitalists like those at Enron and more recently those that caused the 2008 crisis were absolutely DIRECTLY responsible for stealing people's retirement accounts and destroying the world economy for years, and b) capitalists have a huuuuge amount of influence over public policy. Like bro thousands of people lost their entire retirement fund after Kenneth Lay & Bros engaged in crazy amounts of fraud - is that the government's fault? Is it the people's fault for poorly investing? Groovelord Neato posted:the thing i've run into is when you tell people they won the life lottery or whatever they assume you're saying they didn't work hard to get where they are. a lot of us worked hard to get where we are. but there are people that worked a lot harder than you ever will and are stuck working three lovely jobs to make ends meet because they were born into poverty or some illness befell them or their family or something else completely outside their control. This is a good point as well; just because you make it doing X doesn't mean everyone can make it doing X. The point isn't 'the system is stacked against you so don't try,' the point is 'the system is stacked so that even if you try your best you still might be hosed.' Doesn't mean it isn't worth trying, ofc. Also it might be nice if the bottom rung wasn't broke and poo poo on constantly but people consider them 'temporary jobs with no real value' even though most of them are pretty necessary for the day to day functioning of society. Moridin920 has a new favorite as of 20:13 on Aug 5, 2016 |
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Aug 5, 2016 20:11
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Professor Shark posted:Targets venture in Canada was really funny to experience. As someone who has to fix crap caused by SAP consultant gently caress ups, this article is pretty much what I see everyday. http://www.canadianbusiness.com/the-last-days-of-target-canada/
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Aug 5, 2016 20:13
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